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01x05 - Return to Fox Hollow: New Victims, Darker Secrets

Episode transcripts for the TV show, "The Fox Hollow Murders: Playground of a Serial k*ller". Aired: February 18, 2025.*
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Jeff Jellison launches a new investigation decades after thousands of bones were found in the woods behind Fox Hollow Farms.

01x05 - Return to Fox Hollow: New Victims, Darker Secrets

Post by bunniefuu »

JEFF: It was just
bones everywhere.


[camera shutter clicks]

10,000 remains recovered--

second only
to the World Trade Center.

We were flabbergasted.

You know, how many victims
are out here?


[dramatic music]

LAURA: Fox Hollow
is like Gacy's basement.


He's the Dahmer
you've never heard of.


He was targeting g*y men
at bars.


- And here's this man picking
up people from this community,

taking them home,
and k*lling them.


JEFF: The family
never had answers.


I've got a big problem
with that.

I'm not gonna let them
be forgotten any longer.


When I dug into it...

I was not buying the story.

ROB: Everything that we have
comes from Goodyear.


- I had never seen
a m*rder take place.

I never seen
an abduction take place.


JEFF:
How does one man take a body


200 yards into the woods?

I mean--
- That's my question.

LAURA: He mentions there's
a potential accomplice.


- Not many people live to tell
about their involvement

with a serial k*ller.

- If there is an accomplice,
why didn't he tell them

who they were?

♪ ♪

- Now let me tell you
a very, very interesting story.

[eerie music]

♪ ♪

PRODUCER:
Okay, let's settle and get set.

Are you good, Phil?
Okay.

♪ ♪

[line trilling]

♪ ♪

AUTOMATED VOICE: Please leave
your message for 3179.


PRODUCER: Rob, has Mark
said anything to you?

- He normally texts me.

PRODUCER: Do you want
to sh**t him a text

and just let him know
we're waiting for him?

- Yeah.

♪ ♪

JOHN: Please join me
in welcoming the coroner

of Hamilton County, Indiana,
Jeff Jellison,

and Boulder Police detective
Steve Ainsworth.

[cheers and applause]

- Welcome, Jeff.
Jeff, good to see you, man.

I tell you, it's such
a pleasure to be with you,

first of all.

This is one of
the most bizarre,

terrifying m*rder cases
I have ever watched.

- Yeah.

JOHN:
Who was Herb Baumeister?

JEFF: Herb was a resident
of Hamilton County, Indiana.


He was a businessman
in Indianapolis.


He was a husband.
He was a father.


He was a member
of the community.


JOHN: But he led a double life.
JEFF: He did.

NARRATOR:
Baumeister also frequented


every g*y bar in the city,

often taking men
back to his sprawling estate.


- There were mannequins
around the pool,


mannequins behind the bar.

JEFF:
It was really creepy.


Something's not right.

♪ ♪

I'm not buying the story.

♪ ♪

[applause]

When the documentary came out,

the reaction was
really overwhelming.


- First,
a new ABC News docuseries

is shedding light on--

NEWS ANCHOR:
Fox Hollow Murders:

Playground of a Serial k*ller.

NEWS ANCHOR 2:
A documentary on Hulu


is bringing more eyes
than ever before to this--

NEWS ANCHOR 3:
Coroner Jeff Jellison revisits


the case decades later.

- And this story just--
it feels like there's

so many layers here.

- Has the docuseries
changed the trajectory

of the investigation?

JEFF: Yes.

Most people didn't hear
about the Fox Hollow case

or Herb Baumeister, like you've
seen with Dahmer, Gacy,

some of the more well-known.

JOHN: Because the case
had been dropped off.

STEVE: The case
had been completely--

JOHN:
Since he committed suicide.

STEVE: In '96, when he k*lled
himself, it was dropped.

- These families have,
for 30 years,

waited for an answer
with nothing being done.

JOHN: But you changed that.
- We changed that.

We changed that. Yes, sir.
- Thank you. [chuckles]

[applause]

- I didn't expect
what was about to happen.

PERSON:
That was amazing.

There were 3,000 people there.

JEFF: Wow.
STEVE: 3,000?

- There was only 6,000
at the conference.

JEFF:
That's amazing.


The day the documentary
was released,


we immediately began
getting leads--


emails, text messages,

probably more than 500.

There are
very strong indications


there is another suspect,

and it wasn't Mark Goodyear.

♪ ♪

[suspenseful music]

♪ ♪

[indistinct chatter]

JEFF: Hi, folks.
PERSON: What up?

- Good to see you.
Come on down.

Hi.
- Hi.

- What's your name?
- Joanne.

- Joanne.
- Steve.

- I love you guys.

- I want to just give you guys
a hug for all the hard work

you're doing.

JEFF: Never would
I have ever dreamed


that people would stand in
line


to get their picture taken.
STEVE: Isn't that crazy?


JEFF:
There are so many people


that have a passion
for this case.


They want the answers, too.

PERSON: Thank you for
everything you're doing.

- Thank you.

I have to keep working

and to stay passionate about
this case

and not give up when we hit
that impossible roadblock.


[dramatic music]

♪ ♪

PRODUCER:
Okay, so back again.

First, if you could
just introduce yourself

and your connection
to the Baumeister case.

- I'm Laura Musall.

And in 1996, I was a reporter

for a local community
newspaper


called the Daily Ledger.

I was the first person
to write about Herb Baumeister


and the k*lling field
he created in Westfield.


It's been the kind of story
that's always nagged at me,

because I've always felt
like something

was never solved with it.

After the documentary
came out,


this case really piqued
my interest again.

I thought I was done

with the journalism part
of my life.


But it became clear that
I am not done with this case.


I thought, I should write
a book about this.

I'm dividing things up
by the chapter.

So I know
what information I have

that I'm planning
for each chapter.

But I'm also trying to keep
track of the things


I need to dig into more.

And let me tell you,
there is so much information.

It's so easy
to go down a rabbit hole

when I find something new
that I don't know...

'cause the same questions
I had


in '96, '97, '98

are still questions
I have today,

which kind of blows my mind.

Is Mark Goodyear
just a witness?


Or was he involved
with the death of these men?


- I'd like to know
how the audience views me.

- That Goodyear fella, um...

- Nope, nope, mm-mm, no.
He knew and knows too much.

And he just gives me
the creeps.

- This guy's name,
Mark Goodyear,

continuously comes up.

It's just too much to ignore.

- What the f*ck?

- Who is investigating
this crap?


LAURA:
People also are just curious


about why the Hamilton County
Sheriff's Department


didn't continue
to investigate this case.


And then did Herb
have an accomplice


that wasn't Mark Goodyear?

That has surfaced over
and over and over again,


people asking that,

people saying there's
no way he acted alone.

Someone else had to know.

Someone else
had to have helped him.

So I filed
a Freedom of Information Act


request from the Indianapolis
Police Department.


They began the case when men
started going missing in 1993.


I had also filed that

with the Hamilton County
Sheriff's Department,

because once they determined

Herb lived
in Hamilton County...


the Hamilton County
Sheriff's Department


took the case over in '96.

So there were
two jurisdictions.


♪ ♪

- I take, obviously,
monumental notes, but...

- I wanted to see
what all information

was out there and available.

It took probably six months
to get the files.


It's a massive amount
of information.


They've never been released
before.

I started going through these.

And inside...

I found a bombshell.

[dramatic music]

♪ ♪

PERSON: Steve Ainsworth,
Jeff Jellison,


you got the guy who could find
a needle in a haystack,


and Jeff Jellison is bringing
nothing but straight facts,


and he's coming with receipts
every single time.


If I ever go missing, please
put these two on my case.


- [chuckles]

PERSON: There is no doubt in
my mind that Steve Ainsworth

and Jeff Jellison are 100%
going to find

who is responsible
for Fox Hollow.


- I mean...

thank you
for the respect, you know?

But he's right.

We are not gonna get
off that trail.


- These two are bloodhounds.

- I'm driven to succeed
in this case.

I've seen the closure that
it brings to these families,


and I want to continue that.

Phase one was one location.

And we were very successful

at identifying remains
from that location.


But it got to a certain point

where we weren't identifying

new people.

So the decision was made

to go to a group of remains
that we recovered


in another area

of the Fox Hollow property.

I think, when the smoke clears
and we're done,


whenever that is--it might
be a long time from now--

you'll find out...

that Dahmer and Gacy...

♪ ♪

Couldn't have carried
Herb's shovel.

♪ ♪

So we need to draw attention
to the investigation...


'cause with that attention,

you're gonna get people
from all over the world


who reach out
to law enforcement themselves,


asking why law enforcement

was not having
any movement on this case.

We have to keep
this investigation rolling.


- They didn't care enough
about these men

to even bother
to identify their remains.

- The state was spending
too much money on these bones.

And they said, mm...

- The victims in this case--
my heart breaks.

And we don't even know
how many there are.

- Where's the other part?

I couldn't even begin to count
the amount of time


I've spent reading
the documents


from the Indianapolis
Police Department.


We're probably talking about
at least 50 or more files,

and some of them are hundreds
of pages long.

There's search warrants,
copies of faxes,


police records of the victims.

It's like
a giant jigsaw puzzle.

They had things
you would suspect,


but it was weird
what was included.

For some odd reason,

they had a video
of
The Oprah Winfrey Show.

OPRAH: Like many
of you watching,


my next guest was in love
with her husband


and a devoted mother.

But what happened to her life
sounds like the plot


of some kind of horror movie.

LAURA:
In March of 1997,


Julie Baumeister
and Sergeant Ken Whisman


agreed to go
on The Oprah Winfrey Show.

OPRAH: Is it true
there were no skulls?

- That's correct.
There was no skulls found.

- There was a full episode
about this case

and about whether Julie knew
what her husband was doing.

- Because Herb is dead,

he will never be charged
with any crime,

but officials say
that he is the prime suspect

in many deaths.

LAURA:
I really don't understand


why this was
in their official file.


It makes me wonder,
is there something Julie says


that got their attention?

- Do you believe your husband

is guilty
of murdering those men?

- I...

don't...

think that I have
the answer yet.

OPRAH: Really?
- I don't feel...

that all the evidence
has been discovered.

LAURA:
She basically says


there's something she knows
that's out there

that has not come forward.

I'm perplexed
by Julie's answer.

What evidence
is she looking for?

It has to be somewhere
in all the files.


As I was combing through them,

I kept seeing the name...

Thomas Ackerman.

And I had never heard
that name before.

I was shocked,

because I thought
I kind of knew


who the main players were.

But, clearly, I didn't.

There is more stuff
on Thomas Ackerman

than there is
on Herb Baumeister.

There are files

going back
to the summer of 1993.


There wasn't a body until '96.

So how does he fit
into all this?


How is Thomas Ackerman
connected


to the missing men...

at Fox Hollow Farm?

[eerie music]

♪ ♪

NEWSCASTER: The woods
have yielded more bones


and more bodies.

The house
and the land around it


belonged to Herb Baumeister.

[eerie music]

ROB: I think the property
will always be


Herb Baumeister's place.

♪ ♪

I personally didn't have
any interest in serial K*llers


until I bought a house

that was owned
by a serial k*ller.


Ever since
the documentary premiered,


the reaction
to my participation

was somewhat negative.

PRODUCER:
Let me show you this TikTok.

I don't know
if you've seen this.

You can comment on it.
Go ahead, and just hit play.

- I'm so convinced that
Rob Graves is Herb Baumeister.

I'm yelling this
from the rooftops,

because I know
there's legs to it.

Nose, lips do not move.

Ears are lined up.
Pupils match.


The only difference
is that Rob is looking


the other way for the camera.

But if you wanted to see
what you would look like


when you're aging--
- [laughing]

- I don't know.
I think that lines up.


- I hope he has a good lawyer.
[laughs]

I generally am not
on social media,


but I was...

somehow lumped
into Mark's character...

- Okay, Robert, what have you
gotten me involved in here?

- Because I took a defensive
posture against him.

Ah, what did he say?

What could--how could I say it

so it doesn't sound
so terrible?

Um...
[laughing]

Uh, Mark...

Meaning I defended
him on camera.


Um...

I've only repeated
what law enforcement told me,


which he was not guilty.

PRODUCER: What is your current
understanding of the case?

What do--do you believe that
there were more people involved

than Herb Baumeister?

- I-I really don't believe more
than one person was involved.

I-I think most
of these serial K*llers

are lone--lone wolves,
if you will,

and--and--and do this
on their own.

But I had heard
that story before.


I heard Mark say
at some point,


there might have been
somebody else involved.


PRODUCER: Do you think
that Herb worked alone?

Or did he have an accomplice?

- Okay, now, you've seen
the size of this site.

Do you think one person
could do that by themselves?

Okay.

♪ ♪

- Yeah.

Mark Goodyear's interview.

I've got some real questions
about that interview.


PRODUCER: Everything we know
about this case...

- Mm-hmm.
PRODUCER: Comes from you.

- Absolutely.

PRODUCER:
Absolutely what?


- Everything you know
about this case comes from me.


You just said that.

I agreed with you by saying
the word "absolutely."


Where are you confused?

[laughing]
Okay? So--I'm sorry.

When I say "absolutely,
I mean, yes, everything

that you know about this case
comes from me.

I realize that.
I'm aware of that.

♪ ♪

- Yeah, he's trying to take
control of the conversation.

- I think he realizes he is not
in control of the narrative

in this moment,

and he can feel that control
slipping away.

JEFF: Mark Goodyear says,
very adamantly...


- Everything you know
about this case comes from me.


JEFF: That might have been
true a few years ago,


but it's not true any longer.

We know a lot about this case

from things
that did not come from him.


And--and if you notice,
his blink rate doubled.

So you begin to see his body

start to come into play
in the communication factor.


♪ ♪

LAURA: There are so many
things in the transcripts


of his interviews
that are contradictory


or don't make sense.

With each new piece
of information we uncover,


Mark loses control of
the narrative a little more.


For example, in August of '94,

Mark Goodyear had an interview
with a private investigator,


Virgil Vandagriff.

This was
the very first interview

that we know of
with any one official

related to his experience
at Fox Hollow Farm.

Goodyear tells him
that he had had an encounter


with a guy who took him
up north


to a mansion with a pool.

And the only reason he got
in the car with Herb that night

was because he had known him
for at least four months.

Mary Wilson then interviews
Goodyear for the first time


several weeks later.

LAURA:
This interview took place


not that long after he had been

at Fox Hollow Farm,

had spent the night with Herb,

had sexual activity with Herb.

And now he's saying
he's not positive


he could identify him.

And that seems
so strange to me.

He had known him
for at least four months.

♪ ♪

So you've got Goodyear
giving misinformation


to different cops.

♪ ♪

This shows
he was deliberately lying


to get them off track.

♪ ♪

So what else
did Mark lie about?


♪ ♪

KIMBERLEY:
In '93, '94,


I was a general detective

from Indianapolis Metropolitan
Police Department.

At that time,

I had a case
with a missing person


named Richard Hamilton.

This was three years

before Richard's body
was found deceased


on Herbert Baumeister's
property.


♪ ♪

DEBBIE:
Richie was funny.


And he was very smart.

PERSON: Look at his pants.
DEBBIE: Spandex.

[both chuckle]

You know, living freely, trying
to find his place in the world.

We started getting
real worried


when the holidays come
and he wasn't around,


because he would definitely
show up to eat, you know?


We knew something was wrong.

♪ ♪

KIMBERLEY: When I was given
the case to investigate,


I learned that the person

who reported
Richard Hamilton missing


was a man
named Thomas Ackerman.

♪ ♪

I learned in my investigation

that Thomas Ackerman
was a married man.


He had a really good job
as a civilian

working for the military.

I called Mr. Ackerman.

I asked him if he would come
in and meet with me.


♪ ♪

Mr. Ackerman
immediately asked us


if he was being detained,

and I told him
he was not being detained.


You're just the person
reporting this.

Are you okay just to talk to me

about your friend
that's missing?


Tell me who this is to you,

how you know he's missing.

He did not want to get
into great detail.


Everything was very surface.

"He's a friend.
He's somebody that I know."


Like, midway
through the interview,

finally, I said,
you know, Mr. Ackerman,

this--this young person gets
arrested as a prost*tute.

So am I right to say

that you have some kind
of a relationship with him


that is beyond a friendship?

He was just appalled.

He let us know
he was a married man.


He wasn't up to that.

He was just flustered.

♪ ♪

Mr. Ackerman
did finally let it out


that he and Richard Hamilton

were involved
in a romantic relationship--


not a sexual,

"just I'm picking up
a hustler" relationship.


It was a real relationship.

And he didn't like it
if we made it sound

like it was anything
other than that.

And then
he jumped up abruptly.


He stormed out.
"Am I free to go?"


I'm like, you're free to go.

♪ ♪

We learned
from other prostit*tes


that Ackerman was a weird guy,

that he was possessive.

But some of the men
said that they had also been


to Ackerman's house,
and there were just odd things.

PRODUCER:
Like what?

♪ ♪

KIMBERLEY: A pair of clothes
that belonged


to Richard Hamilton
were laying on his bed.


And he had candles lit
in a room,


like he was doing a shrine.

For Richard Hamilton, we
have his booking information,

and we also have the ViCAP.

And as far as what it says...

Approximately four days prior
to Hamilton's disappearance,


he and Ackerman had taken
a trip to Anderson, Indiana.


And they got
into a physical confrontation


in a hotel there,

after which
Hamilton left the room


and hitched a ride
back to Indianapolis.


[vehicle departing]

A couple of days later,
Ackerman made up with him


and asked him to come out
to his house


on the morning
of July 31, 1993,


at 8:00 a.m.

Ackerman left the apartment at
approximately 12:00 midnight.


And two hours later,
Hamilton would be missing.


Supposedly, Hamilton
had left the apartment


to turn a trick
to buy some more alcohol.


Hamilton took
no personal items at all--


no clothes, no pictures.

♪ ♪

I had a conversation with
Mr. Ackerman over the phone.


And he said that he went
to a psychic


and that the psychic told him
that Richard's body


would be found
in a shallow grave


in a wooded area near water.

LAURA: There's a creek
that runs through the woods


at Fox Hollow.

Ackerman told police
that Hamilton would be found


in the woods
near a body of water.


He was found in the woods
by a body of water.


♪ ♪

We find out
even more information


about the relationship
between Ackerman and Hamilton

in this report.

It talks
about how Ackerman's wife


found Thomas in bed
with Richard Hamilton.


♪ ♪

She gets a court order
for him to leave,


gets a restraining order
against Thomas.


And then she talks about
how he's manic-depressive,


and there were
physical fights.


Ackerman had a temper.

You know,
there's violence there.


Hamilton goes missing.

I don't understand

why they didn't go
after Ackerman

for Hamilton's disappearance.

♪ ♪

[insects chirping]

[dramatic music]

JEFF: Throughout the course
of this investigation,


there's been a number
of cadaver dogs


on this property

that have indicated
various places.


So we've got
the University of Indianapolis

down here now

to assist my department

with a very isolated
excavation.


- The area
that we're interested

is gonna run
from approximately just north

of that tree right there.

If we uncover remains out here
that are larger


than some of the small,
very small samples


we have in the laboratory,

then it could provide
an opportunity


to generate more DNA profiles

and lead
to additional identifications.

♪ ♪

JEFF: This is not
a quick process.


You know, a lot of this work
takes time.


So you have to be
very patient.


But we're making progress.

NEWSCASTER: With some breaking
news just into our newsroom--


another set of remains
have been identified


at Fox Hollow Farms.

- We made an identification
over the summer.

And it was one of the most
challenging identifications


that we had.

It was a remain that went
to the Indiana State Police


for the initial DNA work
and entry into CODIS.


We get no match in CODIS.

So we know that we don't have
a family reference sample.

So it's sent off to genealogy.

They call me up, and they say
we have a likely person.

♪ ♪

And they gave me the name
of Daniel Halloran.


♪ ♪

I'd never heard
that name before.

[eerie music]

♪ ♪

So we need a family member
to confirm the identification.


My deputies go to work.

And they find out
that Daniel's mother is dead,


his father is dead,

and his brother is dead.

We have
no living family members


that we're aware of

to swab and compare
the DNA profiles.


It was a kick in the gut.

♪ ♪

LAURA:
Back in the '90s,


the Hamilton County
Sheriff's Department


had a narrative
that Herb Baumeister


preyed on homeless,
drug-addicted,

alcoholic sex workers

who had nowhere to go,

who had no families.

And, repeatedly,
they would say,

no one noticed
they were missing.

And then I watched
the documentary.

And every one of the victims
that have been identified


had a family.

They had families
who were looking for them,


and they were looking
in dumpsters.


They were at a loss.

Where were their sons
and their brothers?


♪ ♪

[cell phone bloops]
- All right.

♪ ♪

Don't you got
anything important?

It was just a few weeks later,

we learned
that Daniel had a daughter.

[dramatic music]

Her name was Coral...

♪ ♪

And that she was living
in North Carolina.


♪ ♪

CORAL: Back in March,
I got a phone call.


Jeff asked me
if I could identify my dad

by sending in a DNA test
of my own

so we can confirm
that Daniel was my father.

- I mean, I couldn't imagine...

getting a phone call
from a coroner

and saying...

hey, I think
I just found your dad.

♪ ♪

She said, yeah,
I think Daniel is my dad,

but I-I don't know him.

CORAL:
I was 1 1/2 years old


when my father went missing.

The last thing
that my dad did was,


he bought me a gallon of milk
and diapers


and left it
on the front porch.


♪ ♪

JEFF: Just the conversations
that I've had with Coral--


she always wondered,
did her dad just run out on her

and never come back to her?

And I think
now she understands


that that wasn't the case.

Her dad couldn't come
back to her--he was m*rder*d.

I think she was nervous
for the DNA results,


because she wanted this so bad
to be her dad

so that, then, she could begin

to start putting those pieces
of the puzzle together


as to why
he wasn't in her life.

CORAL: I never gave up on,
you know, trying to find him


or wanting to find him.

Even if I was to get married,

I was never gonna change
my last name,

'cause if I kept my last name,

my dad could find me along
the way if he was still alive,

but that never happened, so...

Now I-I found him.

[somber music]

♪ ♪

Hmm, I didn't never...

think I'd find my dad dead.

[voice breaking] I wanted
to find him, not him dead.

♪ ♪

- Hi, Coral. I'm Jeff.
- Hi. How are you?

- Mind if I step in and talk.
- Sure.

Oh, thank you.

I waited 33 years for this.

Unfortunately, this is how
I have to get him back.

But I thank you guys
for everything you've done

and for finding me
along the way.

JEFF:
I'm sorry it's taken this long.

And, you know, we're just--
we're there.

Whatever you need,
we are there.

CORAL:
Yes, sir.

♪ ♪

JEFF:
This is why we're here.


Today is why we're doing
what we do.

CORAL: That's more than
I thought it would be.

JEFF:
Get these people--


because that's what
these remains represent,


is they represent people--

Get them off of a shelf

and get them returned
to their loved one.


- Mm, holding him...

♪ ♪

Like, he should have been
holding me first.

♪ ♪

Mm.
[sniffles]

He missed the best moments
of my life.

♪ ♪

Love you.

- I love you more.
- I love you more.

- No, I love you more.
- [chuckles]

And I wish he could be
a part of that.

♪ ♪

JEFF: Every case has
a grieving family member.


It has someone
wanting an answer.

It has someone
waiting to be laid to rest.

So this case isn't
any different.

♪ ♪

It's just the fact that
it went cold for 30 years.


We owe it to this case.

LAURA:
In the IPD files,


I found the second
Fox Hollow victim


that Ackerman
had contact with...


Steven Hale.

KIMBERLEY: When I was
looking into the case,


I discovered that a young man
named Steven Hale


was missing
from that same area


where Hamilton
was last seen alive.


[eerie music]

Hale had prior arrests.
He was a hustler.


♪ ♪

We had, you know, done
a little bit of research


and realized Steven Hale

had been bailed out of jail
by Thomas Ackerman.

♪ ♪

When I saw that Thomas Ackerman
had bailed Steven Hale out,

I just thought I had just
solved the case right there.

I had laid down this,
you know, major trump card.

Missing-persons detectives
took it from there.


LAURA: So Steven Hale
was bailed out of jail


by Ackerman
and is never seen again.

[dramatic music]

♪ ♪

Richard Hamilton goes missing
in the summer of '93.


A year later
Steven Hale goes missing.


Just like Hamilton,

Ackerman is the last person
to see Hale alive.


A year after Hale
goes missing,


Ackerman gets stopped
by the police


for a traffic violation.

He was found with cocaine.

Police find a shovel,

blankets that look like
they have bloodstains on them,


maps to state parks
in his car.


The Indianapolis
Police Department


got a search warrant
for Ackerman's home.


They were able to confiscate
many things from his house,


from his computer
and phone records...


anything they could get.

I mean...

all these things
are pointing to Ackerman.

[eerie music]

So how did Hamilton and Hale

end up dead at Fox Hollow?

Maybe they
weren't k*lled there.


Maybe they were dumped.

INVESTIGATOR: I'm surprised
my Fitbit hasn't thought

I'm having a heart attack yet.

[eerie music]

So this is, I think, our best
stopping point for today.

♪ ♪

JEFF: I think at some point,
we might bring cadaver dogs


back out here again,

uh, just to explore

a little bit more in depth
some of the other areas.

But we don't have any remains
right here

that we've been able to uncover

just going at the depth
that we went at.

♪ ♪

When you look at this,
you think...


maybe not finding something
is disappointing,


or it's not progress
in the investigation.


And it's the opposite of that.

If there's nothing here,

there's nothing here
in this spot.

That's a win.

We can move on to other areas
of our investigation,


you know, to put
our efforts into.


If there had been remains here,
we would have found them.

♪ ♪

- Roger Allen Goodlet
was well-known

in the Indy g*y-bar scene.

He was a likable, friendly,
fun-loving guy.


Everyone seemed to love Roger.

[suspenseful music]

♪ ♪

Roger Allen Goodlet
goes missing


in July 1994.

In 1996, Goodlet's remains

are found at Fox Hollow Farm.

Back in the '90s,

when we received information
from police


about Roger Allen Goodlet
being missing,


we're told that he was getting
into a light-blue vehicle.


♪ ♪

And all the assumptions were,

it was Herb
that picked him up.


Well, then you read
this witness statement


from the new IPD files.

You're like,
well, wait a minute.


There were a group of guys

that seemed
to hang out together


at many of the g*y bars
in downtown Indianapolis--


among them Mark Goodyear,

Roger Allen Goodlet,

and John Childers.

Childers is the last person

that we know of
that saw Goodlet alive.

This is significant because...

we have so few witnesses
to the disappearance.

With Roger Allen Goodlet,
we have someone saying,

I saw him leaving
with this person.

With other victims,
we have them missing,

but no one saw them leave,
really, with someone.

[dramatic music]

INTERVIEWER: This is a witness
statement being taken


from John Childers

concerning the missing-persons
investigation


on Roger Allen Goodlet.

Had you run into Mr. Goodlet
at all that evening?


JOHN: Yeah, I'd seen him
down at Our Place,


probably around about 10:00.

INTERVIEWER:
What did you do after closing?


JOHN: Ah, went over
down Pennsylvania,


over to North Street to see
Allen where he works at,


which is the Flags.

We call it his office.

[dramatic music]

I seen him getting ready

to get into a powder-blue
Chevy Impala.


♪ ♪

- The key to this whole case
is, who is driving this car?


♪ ♪

Whoever was driving that car
that Goodlet got into


was probably the person
that k*lled him.

♪ ♪

INTERVIEWER:
Did you get a look at all


at the driver of the vehicle?

JOHN: When Allen
had the door open,


there was, you know,
the car light on.


And the gentleman
was kind of bald


in, it seemed like,
the back of his head.


And in a way,
he looked maybe between,


like, 40 and 50 years old.

INTERVIEWER:
Okay.


♪ ♪

- The driver of the blue Impala
didn't fit Herb's description.

It's a much older man.

[eerie music]

Herb look like he was
younger than 50,


and he was not balding.

But it could match
a description


of Thomas Ackerman...

older, balding,
salt-and-pepper hair.


Plus, we have no evidence

that shows
that Herb Baumeister


owned a vehicle
that looked anything


like a light-blue
Chevy Impala.


♪ ♪

And we know
from the police reports


that Ackerman owned
a blue vehicle.


Thomas Ackerman
seems more likely

to be the driver of that
blue vehicle than Baumeister.

♪ ♪

- I didn't think anything of it
at that time.

[engine revving]

That first night
here at the farm...

I hadn't been inside
the house yet.


But I noticed Herb Baumeister

did pull the passenger side
of the car,


the tire up onto a rise
in the driveway.


And he had that passenger
headlight of the car


way up...

to where it would go right
into the windows upstairs


in that apartment
that's over there.

I think he was signaling--
I know he was,

because the next action
that he took after he panned

that headlight
across those windows,

he pounds on the steering
wheel, both fists.

"You can't--you can't depend
on anybody anymore,"

something to that effect,
you know?

He was trying to signal
somebody.

I would...

assume...

that there was somebody
in that apartment--

or was supposed to be
in that apartment the night--

that first night that
I showed up here, you know?

And then, finally,
when we finally did get down

into the actual home itself,
everything is set up.

♪ ♪

Everything's ready.

♪ ♪

But it looks like I'm gonna
have to clear up my own mess,

doesn't it?

I'm not gonna have any help.

♪ ♪

KIMBERLEY: When I worked
undercover at Vice Narcotics,


one thing that we learned is
that these men picking up men


were talking to each other...

about how much money
they were gonna pay


or who you might want
to stay away from

because they use drugs
and they steal your money.


So there is a networking
that goes on.

Herbert Baumeister
and Thomas Ackerman--


they were these married,
family men.


They had good jobs,

living a secret life

that revolved
around these same young men.


LAURA: They had a lot
of commonalities.


Is it possible
that Ackerman and Baumeister


were working together?

That's the big question.

♪ ♪

[dramatic music]

♪ ♪

LAURA:
Here's what we know.


Ackerman is the last person
seen with Hamilton.


He's the last person
seen with Hale.


And it's very likely he was
the driver of that blue car


that Goodlet
is seen getting in.


So why don't police
bring him in?


Why does the case go cold?

♪ ♪

What I'm wondering about
is the fact


that Ackerman had to have been
a suspect

of these missing persons,

and they just let it go.

There is nothing
in these files

that clears Ackerman
of anything.

♪ ♪

PRODUCER:
Do you believe that police


might have stopped looking
into Ackerman


once they had Baumeister?

KIMBERLEY: [sighs] I don't
know the answer to that.


As a detective, I wouldn't stop
with just one suspect.

I would have continued looking,

especially with as much

as Ackerman had in common
with Baumeister.


I hope that they
did not just settle for one

if there's more suspects
involved in it.

PRODUCER:
Okay, so this is a video

from the Hamilton County
Sheriff's Office.

This is two days after they've
started finding remains

at Baumeister's property.

They interviewed this guy,
Mark Goodyear.

And you'll see that
Mary Wilson was there.

And at the end
of the interview,

Mary Wilson has this exchange
with Ken Whisman,

who's going to become the
lead detective in the case.


This is where she's handing
over case files.

[eerie music]

- This book was
mostly suspects.

That's a suspect.
That's a suspect.


That's a survivor.

- It's not only shocking,
it's--it's deplorable

that someone
who has been assigned

to investigate a serial k*ller

does not care
who the suspects are.

He has one person in mind.
That's all he cares about.

- And that's
the statement on him.

- Okay.

♪ ♪

- Oh, I'm shocked.
I think I'm sad, too.

If someone got away with m*rder

that was never held
accountable,

that's not what we all
signed up to do this job for.


LAURA:
It makes you wonder


if the Hamilton County
Sheriff's Department

did not look at Ackerman
as a serious suspect.


♪ ♪

This is where the trail
on Ackerman ended.


It didn't go cold.
It was shut down.


♪ ♪

JEFF: You know,
when I listened to that,


Whisman was obviously very
clearly focused on Baumeister,


and it doesn't seem like he's
looking at the broad picture

of this investigation.

Well, how do you investigate
the case


if you don't have
all the facts?

I have no explanation

why a detective that's
worked the case for a week


would not want the case files

of another detective
who's worked the case

for multiple years.

But it sure
doesn't surprise me.


- From the investigation
that we found so far,

it almost appears
Mr. Baumeister

was leading a double life.

JEFF:
In the documentary,


when Steve Ainsworth
and I were at Fox Hollow Farm


with the cadaver dogs...

PERSON:
We're up here!

Steve and I and Rob Graves

were kind of hanging back
behind everyone.


I'd always heard Whisman
kept some evidence.


ROB: Yeah, okay, so that's
an interesting story.


So, when he was dying,

he had copies of everything--

suicide note.
JEFF: Mm-hmm.

ROB:
He had a whole box--

the Baumeister Box,
he called it.

And he said, you can buy it.

And I said, well,
how much you want for it?


[laughs]
He said, $10,000.


I said, I don't think that's
a good idea to be doing that.

- Probably not.
- And--but he was sick.

- Right.
- And...

JEFF: He said Whisman
had a box of evidence.


♪ ♪

And he offered to sell him
that evidence for $10,000.

♪ ♪

PRODUCER: Is that
common practice?

- Oh, absolutely.
[chuckles]

I mean, you can go
to jail for that,

for a police officer
to remove evidence

from a homicide investigation
and offer to sell it.

PRODUCER:
What does that tell you

about the way
this case was handled?

- I-I-I don't know
that I have a response.

It's so, so horrific
to the investigation.

It compromises
the investigation.

It compromises also
an opportunity

for a conviction

in the future
if there is another suspect...

because any good defense
attorney that learns that

is gonna start asking questions
about that evidence.

PRODUCER: Do you know where
that evidence wound up?

- I do not.

I-I do not know what happened
to that box of evidence.

Rob Graves told me
he did not buy it.

- I didn't want
any part of that.

♪ ♪

- My blood just boils

every time I start reading
something that says,

see the attached report.

And I'm going through, trying
to find an attached report,

and it's not there.

And then I have to file
another request for it,

and then I am told
it's missing.

And those reports

apparently
have been misplaced...

lost, sold.

I don't know
what happened to them.

I mean, it's so frustrating.

I think solving this case

is somewhere in all the files
that are missing.


And without those reports,

there are some things
we are never gonna know.


♪ ♪

That's why Mark's interesting
and maddening


at the same time.

- Everything that you know
about this case comes from me.

I realize that.
I'm aware of that.

- Gosh, I wish I knew what--
what was credible with him,

because I just don't even know
what you can believe.

I-I do believe
that Mark knew Herb.

But back in the '90s,

he was withholding
a lot of information.


But then he's so vocal
during the documentary.

It's almost like he thinks
he's untouchable.

♪ ♪

Something changed.

And that's when
Goodyear decided,

I feel safe that I can talk
about this and show my face.

♪ ♪

♪ ♪

MARK: There was a time,
when people were alive,


I had something
to be afraid of.


Now it doesn't bother me
anymore.


♪ ♪

- Wow. There was a time
when people were alive...

that made him fearful
of showing his face.

That's pretty telling.

PRODUCER:
What do you make of that?

LAURA: Thomas Ackerman
dies late 2023.


Months later,
you do a video with Goodyear,


who says he's now comfortable

having his face shown
to the public...


♪ ♪

was happening.

I wonder if there's
any connection


between Goodyear and Ackerman.

So many people know each other

that I don't think
I realized initially.


Maybe we've had this wrong
all these years.


[eerie music]

PRODUCER: We've heard
from numerous people,

including Jeff Jellison,

that the Indiana State Police
have reopened the case.

- Yes.

♪ ♪

Indiana State Police has been
out to Fox Hollow Farm...


and they have toured
the property.


ROB: Right after
the documentary premiered,


I was called
by the Indiana State Police.


It was a cold-case detective.

He said he had been asked
to relook at the case

and probably at Mark.

♪ ♪

- When I talked
to the cold-case investigator,

he said they
were seriously looking

at any leads they could get.

PRODUCER: Okay, so, when
I interview Mark this time,

what should I ask him?

- Ask him if he'll talk to me.

And...

I don't think Mark
would like the conversation

that I would have with him.

♪ ♪

LAURA:
When he gets comfortable,


I would ask him if he knows
Thomas Ackerman.


Then I would see

if the expression
on his face changes.


♪ ♪

[line trilling]

♪ ♪

- [clears throat]

♪ ♪

- Nothing.

PRODUCER:
Nothing. Somebody's driving.

PERSON: Oh.
ROB: What color's the car?

PRODUCER:
Someone's driving up.

ROB:
Gray, silver?

PRODUCER: No, it looks like
it's the neighbor.

ROB: Oh, it's the neighbor.
PRODUCER: Okay.

You don't think he's coming?

ROB: I doubt it.
He's usually early.

PRODUCER:
Yeah.

PERSON: And he would have
picked up your phone call?

PRODUCER: And you think
he would have picked up

your phone call, right?
- Yeah.

PRODUCER: Yeah, well,
we're gonna wait 4:00,

and then Angela's
gonna text him.

But we kind of feel like
this is all a game to him.

- It could be now, yeah.

♪ ♪

PRODUCER:
Or he's nervous.


♪ ♪

JEFF: It feels like
the clock is ticking


on this investigation,

because you don't know
what the future may hold.


Out of 10,000 remains,
where we're at today


probably is about 9,800 remains

left to be tested.

I've been trying to open up
funding sources for this case.


[dramatic music]

We've identified
Alan Livingston.


We've identified
Daniel Halloran.


We currently have
two DNA profiles

that we know
are new individuals.

We just haven't made
the identification yet.

♪ ♪

CORAL: There's still answers
out there for somebody.


It's not a lost cause.

Don't give up.

There's lost souls out there.

[eerie music]

♪ ♪

LAURA:
I am not done with this case.


I want to help these families.

they still don't know

what happened to their brothers
or their uncles

or their cousin.

I'm committed to keep working
on this,


keep talking to people

until I can hopefully get
to the bottom of it.


I just have this sense that
we're so close to solving this.

It's just like--it's like
we've done this whole puzzle,

and we're missing
this one piece in the center.

We just need the one person
who can connect everything.


And I think
that's Mark Goodyear.


I think Mark still wants to be
in the limelight,


and he still wants
to play these games.


PRODUCER:
How can we believe you?

- You can't.

So why are you bothering me?

[laughs]

I was sitting at my house
minding my own damn business.

So that's what I'm saying.

I don't understand
the attraction to it--

people are drawn to me--

because I can say
whatever I want to say.

And there's no proof.
There's no evidence.

If Herb Baumeister
was alive today,

he'd be a free man.

The prosecutor
will tell you that.

There is no evidence, nothing.
It's all gone.

LAURA: He was putting on
a performance


from the beginning.

LAURA: He has controlled
the narrative until right now.


PRODUCER: Pack it up,
'cause he's not coming.

LAURA: If Goodyear does not
show up for the interview,


I think that's a clear sign

that he can feel that control
slipping away.


♪ ♪

Maybe he is finally feeling
some pressure


that he could be held
accountable

for whatever he was doing
back in the '90s.

MARK:
Look...


if you would please loan me
the attention.


[sighs] I believe with all
of my heart


that all of it is there.

Every bit of it is there,
absolutely,


and in pristine condition.

♪ ♪

Use your gut.
Use your temper.


Use all of that stuff.

♪ ♪

Fetish and death.

♪ ♪

That's the way I reported this
to the police,

that this was...

I used the word "snuff films."

That he was taking snuff films
of people.


[dramatic music]

♪ ♪

There's more than one
out there,


and they do know one another.

And as long as they're out
there, we're gonna keep dying.


♪ ♪

I'm a blessed man.

I'm not troubled by any
of this stuff anymore.


Let's grow, all right?

All right, thank you.
Thank you very, very much.


Bye-bye.

[eerie music]

♪ ♪

All of it is there.

Every bit of it is there.

♪ ♪