03x78 - Mother Save Me

[bunniefuu]

Your mother took money
that she had been saving for you

from your paycheck.

So that I could get out on my own again
and get an apartment.

We ended up yelling at each other.

I asked her at least five or six times
to just please be quiet.

She kicked me out
at that point then too. So...

Well, that's nasty.

Seems to me that rather than
picking a fight with her,

you should be proud of her.

[narrator] This is Judy Justice.

[theme music playing]

[narrator] Shanese Eckstein is suing
her mother, Jessica Lornson,

for stolen money and as*ault.

[Kevin] Court come to order. All rise.

Have a seat, please.

Case 3112,
Eckstein versus Lornson.

-Thank you.
-You're welcome.

[Judy]
Ms. Eckstein, the defendant is your mom?

Yes.

And there are several parts
of your complaint,

but the primary part of your complaint

is that your mother took money
that she had been saving for you...

-Yes, ma'am.
-...and refused to give it to you

-when you left her home.
-Yes.

And mother says that
you owed her that money for...

She doesn't deny
that she saved money for you,

it was your money,

but that she says that you didn't
contribute as you should have

to the household
when you were living there

and she has a counterclaim,
and that counterclaim is that

while you were living there,
your cats caused some damage to her sofa.

Yes, correct.

By the way,
if you take a look at each other,

it's so funny for a stranger to you

look at you, and you can look at your mom

and see what you're going
to look like in a while.

I'm looking at your face.

You don't see it?

No, ma'am, and I don't want to.

Well, I'm just telling you,
from a stranger's perspective.

Sometimes my children don't see
the same thing that I do.

And I don't see it all the time.

But I looked at the two of you
and it was... It's...

[sighs] We've gotten it a lot. It happens.
It sure does. [chuckles]

-[Judy] Does it?
-It does. It has.

[Judge] It does.

And your mom probably likes it when
somebody says, "Oh, is that your sister?"

[Shanese] She probably does.

[Judy] She probably does.

Okay, so right now,
you and your mom are on the outs.

That may be forever,
it may not be forever.

Certainly, from what I read
of your complaint,

when you hit a bad spot in your life,

you went back to your mom.

That's false.

This was the only time
that I'd had actually done that.

[Judy] When you hit a bad spot...

I just said one spot.

[Shanese] A, yes. Yes, ma'am.

-When you hit a bad spot in your life...
-Yes.

-...you went home to your mom.
-[Shanese] Yes.

-[Judy] And she let you come home.
-[Shanese] Yes.

First, tell me a little about yourself,
Ms. Eckstein.

-[Shanese] Um, well...
-How old are you?

[Shanese] I'm 26.

I am a branch manager
at a financial place.

I do taxes and loans,

-so pretty standard.
-Did you graduate high school?

[Shanese] I did. I graduated high school.

I did two years at the Milwaukee
Institute of Art and Design.

Didn't finish there,
but still love art, you know.

And how old were you when you left home?

[Shanese] Um, I was 18.

And where did you go?

I went to the dorms where
I was living there for school for a bit.

Okay, your mom,
I assume since she has younger kids,

-that they're your half-siblings.
-Yes.

Okay. How old are your other children?

They're four, um, five,

and then I have a 17, an 18 and then 26.

Okay. When you went off to college,
you got student loans?

-Yes. Yes.
-Did you do that?

And you were there
for a couple of years and left.

Tell me why you left school.

I was not doing well mentally.

I actually started there
living in the dorms

and then coming back home.

At the time, it was
about a half-an-hour drive.

I worked in my hometown
and then I went to school in Milwaukee.

So it was about a half-hour drive.
I'd come back on the weekends and work.

Um, in that process, I would stay
at her house on the weekends.

But I wasn't able to continue
to do that actually

because she kicked me out
at that point then too. So...

This is reoccurring.

Just... So that would make you about 20.

At that time,
I think I was 19 and a half-ish.

Going on. Around. Close.

Close to 20. And you had
a falling out with your mom then.

-Yes.
-[Judy] Okay. Not important as...

-Right.
-[Judy] Not important as to why.

And then you were on your own.

Tell me when you went back to your
mom's house and under what circumstances.

So in April of 2023,

I lost my job due to them closing offices.

So I just wasn't able to...

Were you continuously working
from the time you were 20?

-Yes. Yes. Not the same job, but yes.
-And you left school.

-[Judy] But yes, and living by yourself?
-Yes.

-And paying your own rent?
-[Shanese] Yes.

-[Judy] Do you have a car?
-Yes.

[Judy] Buy it yourself?

Uh, no. But it... I mean,
I guess technically it wasn't a loan,

but it was from, like, a family
that I was paying them, so yes.

-[Judy] Okay, so... Yeah. So you bought it.
-Title's in my name, yeah.

So when you were 20,
you were on your own, self-supporting.

[Shanese] Yes.

But not bad.

-I'm just telling you. Not bad.
-Yeah.

In today's day and age,
that is a big "not bad."

To be 20 and on your own.

-Yeah.
-[Judy] So you lost your job.

Yes. So, essentially
I was working at this job

since 20... 2020, I believe it was,
so about three years at this point

and they decided they were gonna close
all of the surrounding offices

where I was and then the ones around it,

so I didn't really have many options.

So they gave me severance. I left.

I was working on severance, or, you know,
I was waitressing on the side

getting severance and then also received
unemployment during that time as well,

to just continue with my rent
that I had with the lease.

Okay, and then?

So... I'm sorry. And then I went, um,

I was, you know, getting unemployment.

It started to short out
a little bit around August.

It was getting a little bit difficult
to pay my rent,

so I decided that it would be easiest
to not do that anymore.

I moved in with my mother, asked if she
could help me at that time of need. Yes.

-So... And she said yes.
-And she said yes.

-[Shanese] Yes, absolutely.
-Okay.

So tell me, so you moved back home

with your mom and I assume

between two and four siblings.

Yeah, well,
I mean, there was two originally.

One is in college right now

and then the other one
ended up moving back as well.

-The 17-year-old?
-[Shanese] Yes. Mm-hmm.

So is back home with
the four and five-year-old.

As far as I know, yes.

-[Judy] Is that right?
-[Jessica] Correct.

[Judy]
And you live there with your husband?

-Correct.
-And four, five and 17-year-old?

-Yes.
-[Judy] So you moved back in April?

Uh, no, I... I lost my job in April,

moved back, um, around August, so it was...

I... The news happened in August that
it was going to be an eviction otherwise.

So I realized that I wanted to avoid that
obviously on my record.

So I reached out to her
in a moment of panic.

She helped me out.
I had my stuff moved in within days.

[Judy] Great.

Why were you annoyed with her?

It was midnight and I had asked her

if she had been at her friends
for a couple days,

why she couldn't have ate
before she came home...

[Judy] Did you text that to her?

-I texted that to her.
-Well, that's nasty.

[theme music playing]

[narrator] Shanese Eckstein claims
her mother, Jessica Lornson,

assaulted her and stole money
she received from Shanese.

Jessica is countersuing
for the cost of a couch.

Okay. According to you,
the deal was that you would work,

-which you did.
-Yes.

-[Judy] Got another job.
-Yes.

You moved in in August.
When did you get another job?

Um, right away. It was actually...

I moved in, like, halfway through August,
somewhere near September.

So I got a job immediately on, um...
It was September 19th was my first day.

-[Judy] Are you still there?
-[Shanese] Yes.

-[Judy] What kind of work is it?
-Uh, taxes and loans.

That's what I thought you said.

And you started to give your mom money
from your paycheck.

-Immediately.
-[Judy] For?

Um, to save for me, so that I could get
out on my own again and get an apartment.

How come you didn't put it in a bank?

I should have. Um, hindsight, you know.

Uh, but I was...
My bank was out in Fond du Lac,

so it was just a far drive

and my work issued me a payroll card,
so that's what I was using at the time.

And she actually insisted
that I give her the money, rather than...

You know, so that
I can't have access to it, basically,

because she thinks that I wouldn't have
the ability to not spend it, basically.

So that was the point.

[Judy] Okay. And you were saving
the money for her.

[Jessica] Correct.

How much did you save for her?

Um, we saved,
I think there was 1800 in there.

And, um, I did ask her several times
to go and open up a bank account.

Okay. But you said you saved 1800...

There was 1800. Was it in a bank account?

No, I had it set aside in an envelope
that said "Shanese's Savings" on it.

[Judy]
So it's somewhere between 1800 and 25.

I have it actually in my evidence.
I have all my pay stubs

and then I also have
all of my bank statements

showing when I pulled money out,

that all add up to 2600.

Um, and then I also have my, um...

There was also, like, a note
that I kept in my phone

to save every time that I pulled out
and gave her money,

so that I could keep track of it, so...

Okay, do you have any documentation
of how much money she gave you?

It was written on an envelope at home.

-I don't have that. No.
-[Judy] I took the answer as no.

Okay. So I'd like to see...

Yes, ma'am. Give me one second.

[Judy] From your phone,
that would be most helpful.

I don't have it on my phone,
it's right here.

So this is the beginning of it.
This is the savings.

And then throughout
you'll get the bank statements first

and then right after, immediately,
is all of my pay stubs.

Savings at mom's, I have $2300.

That's because she also borrowed
$200 from me

for, I'm assuming,
my brother's car payment at the time.

I also have that in text messages
of her borrowing that.

[Judy] Well, let me see
the text messages of that, please.

Yes, ma'am.

Yes, do you remember
borrowing $200 from her?

So, I had asked her, yes.

-[Judy] Yes, do you remember that?
-Yes.

Okay. That's $2500.

Okay. Then there came a time
when you had a problem.

-Yes.
-Tell me when that was.

Um, I left her house on the night of...
It was November 24th.

I came back on November 25th
around 11:30.

I went out to see some friends
in Fond du Lac.

So... She actually sent me
with some plates for Thanksgiving

to give to my friends, so everything
was all cordial and fine at the time

of me leaving on Friday night.

Came back on Saturday night

and initially, it started
with a text message I sent to my brother.

I asked him if he wanted to split a pizza.
I was coming home.

You know, just to hang out with him.
He told me he wasn't home.

So I texted my mother and I asked her,
you know, "Where's Joe?"

And he or she told me that he was
out with friends, you know, whatever,

but she was being
very short with me, um...

There's just very short responses.

I was asking her if she had a problem.
She said "No," I said, "Okay."

So I got home
and she had an attitude with me still.

So I addressed it, I said,
"What's... What's the problem?"

And it ended up raising voices.
We ended up yelling at each other.

-[Judy] Okay. So it was tough.
-Yes.

So tell me what happened,
why were you annoyed with her?

So in the text messages
I had asked her, it was midnight,

and I had asked her if she had been
at her friends for a couple days,

why she couldn't have ate
before she came home

because, um, we had
the little one sleeping

and my significant other sleeps out
in the living room

because of just sleeping arrangements
with the little kids.

And I asked her that and she said,
"I don't know what your problem is."

And then when she got home,
it just turned into something more...

-I don't understand what your...
-[Shanese] May I say something?

-Shh. Just a second.
-Yes, ma'am.

[Judy] I'm not following you.

[Jessica]
So, she texted me and asked where Joe was.

Okay. She left on a Friday.

Yup. To go up to Fond du Lac.

And she was coming home on Saturday.

-Correct.
-[Judy] What time?

She texted me, it was about 11:30,

saying that she was about 15 minutes out.

-11:30 in the evening.
-[Jessica] Correct.

[Judy] So she gave you a heads-up
that she was out.

-She had her own key, right?
-Yeah.

-Correct. Yes.
-[Judy] Yes.

-So that's fine.
-[Jessica] Yes.

-And then she said she was hungry.
-Mm-hmm.

-[Judy] Is that right?
-[Jessica] Correct.

[Judy]
Okay, so she said she was hungry.

And your response was,
"Why didn't you eat with your friends?"

Mm-hmm.

[Judy] "Because why you want to eat
when you come home?"

Yeah, my boyfriend does get up at 4:30
in the morning, and she knows that.

So I just thought it was like, you know,
"Why couldn't this be taken care of

before you came home
instead of at midnight?"

Because it kind of
disrupts the house, I guess.

Mm, you must have had a bad day
with somebody that day.

That's not something that I would
actually say to one of my children.

-[Jessica] So...
-I'm just letting you know.

-[Jessica] Well, right...
-[Judy] I'm just letting you know.

You might have just had a bad day.
Who is this?

This is, um, my mother-in-law, Diane.

[Judy] I mean, she... You had somebody
who was responsible.

She texted you that she was coming home.

She clearly knew that you would be up
if she texted you

-because you probably stay up late.
-Right.

And... Sometimes more than I used to get.

"Listen, I'm on my way home,


What?! I would say, "What kind
of medication are you on?"

Telling me 15... 26 years old
and telling me...

We've just had talks before, you know,
about just the times of arriving at home,

and, you know, with the kids sleeping
and Josh in the living room...

It was just, I think, more
of just a respect thing. That was all.

-[Judy] But not a big deal?
-No.

Doesn't sound like a big deal to me.

-[Jessica] Mm-mm.
-So then what happened when she got home?

So she came in the house
and she said, um...

-When she opened up the door...
-[Judy] Look at me. No, look at me.

When she opened up the door, she said,
"What's your problem?"

When she first walked in...

Well, what had you responded to her?

Had you said,
"So why didn't you eat with your friends?"

-Um...
-[Judy] Had you texted that to her?

-I texted that to her, yes.
-Well, that's nasty.

Okay. So she came in,
then she said, "What's your problem?"

-Mm-hmm.
-[Judy] And then?

And she kept getting louder
and I asked her at least five or six times

to just please be quiet,

-you know, the little ones were sleeping.
-Is that the way it went?

-I mean...
-That is the way it went.

You keep your fingers crossed

that your 17, 18, four and five-year-olds

turn out as articulately and independently
as your 26-year-old.

Rather than picking a fight with her,
you should be proud of her.

[theme music playing]

[narrator] Shanese Eckstein
is accusing her mother, Jessica Lornson,

of stealing her money
while they lived together.

Jessica is countersuing,
claiming Shanese's cats ruined her couch.

Okay, she was getting louder
because you were saying what?

She just kept saying,
"What's your problem? What's your problem?

Why are you angry? What's your problem?"
And it kept getting louder, and I...

[Judy] And what did you ans...
Just a second. So what did...?

She asked what your problem was
because it was a curt sort of text.

And what did you respond to her?

I just asked her
to lower her tone at first

and it just kept escalating
and escalating.

-[Judy] No, but did you answer her?
-I did not.

-[Judy] Why?
-Because I answered her

in the text message, that's all.

-That's incorrect.
-[Judy] What did you...

I just said, you know, "Why can't you eat
before you come home?" I know it's not...

[Judy] Just a second.

Well, that I know,

-but now she's home...
-[Jessica] Mm-hmm.

...and she says to you,
"What's your problem?"

I just think it's just how
she approached me, that's all, ma'am.

-I don't...
-Had you had a fight with your boyfriend?

No. We actually get along really well.

[Judy] Mm-hmm. Okay.
And then it escalated. Is that right?

-Yes.
-[Judy] And you left.

Yes, um, well, actually, I...

And I would like to also mention
that they were both awake

in the kitchen...
I'm sorry, in the living room

watching TV when I got home.

They were both still awake, actually.

-[Judy] Both your mom and her boyfriend.
-Yes.

Both my mom and her boyfriend were awake.
The kids were sleeping,

but they were out in the living room
with the dogs and everything.

Everyone was hanging out.

That's the setting
and I would also like to note

that my 17-year-old brother was also out

and not even returned home yet,
was driving her car at the time.

I came back at a reasonable time,

let her know, with my own car.

So that's setting the scene.
Clearing that up, um...

Is there anything
that your daughter just said

-that is inaccurate?
-[Jessica] Yes, Josh was actually sleeping

on the couch until she came in
in the first...

Like, when it started getting loud,
he woke up.

She said he was out.

No, my son was out. My 17-year-old.

-[Judy] Your 17-year-old was out.
-Correct.

-Mm-hmm.
-[Judy] Where was he?

-At a friend's. He was hanging out.
-Was he coming home?

Yes.

[Judy]
So your daughter came home before he did.

-Correct.
-[Judy] How do you get along

with your mother's boyfriend?

He's a really nice guy, actually.
I'm... I...

I'm very happy that he is around her.

I was hoping that it would make her
a little bit of a better person,

but I do like him, he's a good guy.

Right. Going over the numbers,
Ms. Lornson,

you saved $2500 of your daughter's pay

and that was your understanding
that you were saving it for her.

You indicated it was in an envelope.
It was in an envelope with her name on it.

She left. I don't care what
the circumstances were of her leaving.

-That's her money.
-[Jessica] Right.

I did ask her.

The original agreement when she moved in
was to contribute to groceries.

-No.
-[Jessica] Um, contribute to groceries,

to help out with, like, household stuff.

Um, our utility bills did go up

and I had to talk with her
out in our garage,

asking her if she can contribute
a little bit.

I literally live week to week,
paycheck to paycheck,

and I asked her if she'd help me.
She said she would.

[Judy] Okay, but she never...

You asked her to help you. She never did.

She just gave you money to save for her.

Correct.

[Judy] Well, then you owe her $2500.
That's her money.

That's her money.

That's not a contract.

"Can you help out with the groceries?
Can you help out with the utility bills?"

That's not a contract.

"I'm going to save your money for you
so you can move out and be on your own."

That's a contract.

So you have to give her back her money.

Money owed for damaged property.

-You've got one couch.
-Correct.

-And it's a leather couch.
-Correct.

Have you had that couch
since you had your four and five-year-old?

Uh, yes.

-So you have a four and five-year-old...
-[Jessica] Mm-hmm.

...that use that couch and sit on
that couch and play with that couch.

Now I want you to show me a picture
of how you say her cat or cats

-destroyed the couch.
-Okay.

There is...

These four here.

And it's on the arms.

On each of the arms,
and then on the bottom footrest.

[Judy] No, this is a worn couch.

-This...
-[Jessica] I know. It's, uh... Yes.

Oh, come on, what are you, kidding me?

Ms. Lornson, all I can do is suggest
to you that you keep your fingers crossed

that your 17, 18,
four and five-year-olds turn out

as articulately and independently
as your 26-year-old.

I wish you good luck with that,
but it seems to me

that rather than picking a fight with her,
you should be proud of her.

-I am.
-[Judy] She's been on her own

for a very long time,

taking care of herself
seemingly responsibly,

and you were short with her.

-Your Honor...
-[Judy] You were short with her that day.

It was an unloving...

That text to her about
why can't you eat with your friends

was an unloving, non-maternal response.

-You understand?
-Yes.

[Judy] Good. So you owe your daughter
$2500. She owes you nothing.

Judgment for the plaintiff
in the amount of $2500.

-Thank you.
-[Kevin] This court is adjourned.

I feel that I didn't get to speak
on everything and that I wasn't heard.

Honestly, very grateful.

I was honest in my statement
and had all my evidence.

Just very grateful and ready
to be done with all of this.

I'm just wiping my slate clean.
Absolutely done.

Just if she would have read
all the details that I had with the dates,

the times, just things that Shanese and I
have been through in the past.

Probably one of the hardest things
that I've ever done.

But I had to do it, so we did it,
and we're here and I'm done.

She owes me more money. $500 for
an electric bill that she never paid me.

She never loaned me any money
in the first place,

so she's holding on to something
that doesn't exist

and that's unfortunate for her.

It hurts. It does.

Because it's been a long time coming.
It's been years of her putting me down

and just being the thing that stands
in my way of my full potential,

and I don't know what the reason is.

I don't want nothing to do with her.

Finally, I had to just stop
because I have a life to live.

I've given it a lot of thought.

I hope she lives the best life she can.

Now she's burned her bridges.

I hope I never have to
cross paths with her again.

I was really impressed
by that young woman.

Yeah. Seemed like she had it all
figured out from a pretty young age.

Responsible, taking care of herself.

-Paid her rent. Bought a car.
-Yeah.

Paid it off.

Texted her mother, "I'm on the road,
I'll be home in 15 minutes."

Yeah. Overly accommodating
and understanding.

It's just unfortunate.

I know probably all she wanted
was her mother to acknowledge

all of those things as positives.

You know, and having a daughter
that accomplished that much

at such a young age.

-Yeah.
-I'd want my parents

to acknowledge and celebrate that

and I feel like
she didn't get that, unfortunately.

-Yeah. Sad.
-Yeah.

At least she got her money back, though.

[narrator] Are you a victim of a scam?



[theme music playing]