03x15 - Care Facility Showdown

[bunniefuu]

Now tell me what he did to your car.

When he got there, he opened the car door.
I thought he was going to hit me...

-Nope.
-...hit my windshield.

I didn't do that either.

He was outta control.

-Did you put your hands on the car?
-On the handle, yes.

You have no right!

[narrator] This is Judy Justice.

[opening theme music plays]

Wanda Lucero is suing
her niece's former landlord,

Lawrence Block, for property damage
and pain and suffering.

[bailiff] Court come to order.

Have a seat, please.

[bailiff] Hello, Judge.
Case 3011. Lucero versus Block.

-Thank you.
-You're welcome.

-Ms. Lucero, this is your sister.
-[Lucero] Yes.

-And she has a daughter.
-Yes.

-Her daughter is challenged.
-Yes.

She and your daughter,

according to what I read,
were living together.

And there came a time
when your sister decided

that it was best for her to go
into a senior community...

That's correct.

...leaving her daughter
to find another place to live.

-When was that?
-In March of '22.

Have you always been involved

with the care of both
your sister and her daughter?

More recently, or more actively
in the past year.

-[Judy] How old is your niece?
-38.

So you started to look
for a facility for her,

someplace where she would be safe.

And you were referred by whom
to the defendant's group home?

Well, it turned out
my daughter had paid for her

another months' rent
at where they were living

so we could
figure out what we were gonna do,

and the owner of that place
told her she wanted her out now.

So, she was actually homeless for a week.

-You mean your niece?
-[Lucero] Yes.

And it turned out she got an infection,
and she had to go to the hospital.

And so, when she got discharged
from the hospital,

they're the ones that found his boarding.

[Judy] So the social worker
at the hospital was instrumental

-in finding the defendant's facility.
-[Lucero] Yes.

Your lawsuit is alleging that,
you had to because of circumstances,

which you will tell me about,

take her out of
the defendant's group home.

-It is a group home, I assume, sir?
-Yeah.

[Judy] And you had
to do that relatively quickly,

and there was some sort of a kerfuffle
with the defendant

where he scratched your car,

destroyed some of the property
that your niece had.

Mr. Block, in his answer,
has a whole different scenario,

which he's going to tell me about.

On what date, Mr. Block,

did the plaintiff's niece come to live
in your group home?

-I am not sure on the date.
-You don't know. You don't know.

-On what date?
-March 14th of 2022.

I want you to describe the group home
that you run, Mr. Block.

How many residents do you have?

I have anywhere from eight to ten,
at most times.

-It's, uh, for psychological disabled...
-[Judy] Eight to ten?

-Yes.
-[Judy] Okay.

And describe the house.
Give me the address.

It's San Bernardino, California, 92404.

-Okay. Sara, look that up for me, please.
-Sure.

[Judy] And are you registered
or licensed with the state?

With the city. I...

-With the city of San Bernardino.
-I'm a room and board...

Shh! I'll ask questions.

-Okay. Yeah. Yes, Your Honor.
-You give me answers.

The answer is,
you're licensed by the city.

-[Block] Correct.
-[Judy] As what?

-[Block] As room for rent.
-[Judy] Just a room for rent?

-That's the only qualification...
-Just...

Don't tell me
what the only qualification is.

You're licensed by the city
to rent rooms in this house.

-Correct.
-Now...

the plaintiff was referred
to your boarding house...

because it's not a facility,
it's a boarding house...

by the hospital.

Do you know how the hospital got
the name of your boarding house?

-Did you give it to the hospital?
-Yes.

The county collects
a list of room-and-boards.

-[Judy] Of boarding houses?
-Yes.

And how many rooms are you
permitted to rent in your house?

Five.

It's a five-bed, two-bath, 2,000 sq ft.

I have photos, if you want to see.

[Judy] Do you also live there, sir?

-No.
-[Judy] Who else lives there?

It would be a house manager and residents.

-A house manager.
-Yes.

Is the manager also a tenant?

Yes. It's on-grounds manager,


Okay, so, you have someone
who's a resident

who rents a room from you and who
acts as the manager of the property.

-Correct.
-Okay.

How much was the rent
you were paying?

Well, it varied.
It started out at, like, $750, and...

[Judy] And your niece
shared a room with someone.

-[Lucero] Yes... in the end.
-With the manager.

[Judy] Just a second... Well, that's...
Okay. She shared a room with somebody.

-Correct.
-[Judy] Now, Ms. Lucero,

according to what I read you tried to keep
close tabs on your niece,

and you went to pick her up,

and there was something that happened
that was disturbing. When was that?

On November 30th,

I went over there,
she had doctors' appointments that day.

So I went to pick her up,

and before we left her bedroom,

she opened her purse
and flung some undergarments

to the house manager
whom she shared the room with.

So, when we got in the car,
I ask her, I said,

"Liz, what are you doing
with her undergarments in your bag?"

And she said,
"Well, we had been to Walmart,

and she asked me to put 'em in there."

And I'm like, "So, you stole them?"

And she goes, "I don't know."
I go, "Yeah, she had you steal them."

So, that was the straw.

There was a lot of other things
that went on throughout her stay there,

but that was the final straw.

[Judy] And you went back
to remove her property...

-Yes. Yes.
-...that day?

And describe to me what time
you went there and what happened.

I would say around three, maybe.

[Judy] Had you notified anyone

that you were taking your niece
out of the residence?

-No.
-Okay, so, it was about 3:00.

-[Lucero] Yeah, so...
-And?

...we went in there, I had Hefty bags.
We bagged up all her belongings.

-[Judy] Was her roommate there?
-Yes.

-So the house manager was there?
-Yes.

Okay, did the house manager

call you and let you know on that date
that she was moving out?

-[Judy, firmly] Yes.
-Yes.

Of course. Okay. And where were you,
by the way, when she called you?

I was at Community Hospital
interviewing a potential new client.

Okay, so, how far away
were you from the house

when you got the call
from the house manager?

-Just driving distance, or...
-Traveling distance.

Traveling distance
would be about a half hour.

Okay. Now, it took you a half hour
to get back to the property.

Did you come directly back
to the property?

-I finished my interview, then did, yes.
-How long did that take?

It was about an additional


So maybe 45 minutes later,
you showed up at the house.

I would say an hour.

[Judy] So, when you showed up
at the house,

what was the purpose
of coming to the house?

Well, there was an issue skipped
in between that.

Before I came to the house,
I had gotten a call from my son.

He said that some lady
had blocked him into the driveway

'cause he was doing an errand
for me at the house.

Stand up.

Over here.

[dramatic music plays]

It was both ways.

She was arguing and yelling
and using profanity with... as well.

It was a back-and-forth.
It wasn't a one-way situation like that.

And eventually, I did break it off.

And at that point is when I figured out
how to get his car outta there.

I'm gonna... I'm gonna look at the video.

[dramatic music plays]

[dramatic music plays]

[narrator] Wanda Lucero claims her niece's

former landlord, Lawrence Block,

owes for property damage
and pain and suffering.

You called your father and said
someone was blocking you in?

Yes, they, uh...

with their vehicle they, uh,
blocked the driveway.

[Judy] Okay.
Were they loading property?

-No.
-What were they doing?

They expressly went
to block me into the driveway.

-[Judy] Really?
-Yes.

[Judy] They were trying to get away.
Why would they... [chuckles]

-stand there and do nothing and block...
-[Block] It was...

-[Judy] Don't speak!
-Yes, ma'am.

[Judy] Why would they just block you, sir,

if what they were trying to do

is get the property and leave?
Why would they block you?

-Can you figure that out?
-Yes, if I may, um,

they saw that I was not a normal resident

and assumed that I had something to do
with the management of the property

and were insisting that
I let them into places

-such as the garage, and, uh...
-[Judy] Just a second.

The plaintiff was asking you
to let her into the garage?

Yes.

Did you say, "Why do you
wanna go into the garage?"

-No.
-[Judy] Did she tell you there was

a piece of property there
that belonged to her niece?

I wasn't listening to her.

What do you mean, you weren't listening?
What were you doing?

-Um...
-He's not involved in this property.

I don't...
Would you be quiet.

-Yes, Your Honor. Yes, Your Honor.
-Your witness. You brought him here.

[Judy] So, you weren't listening
as to what she said to you?

-Yes.
-[Judy] Why?

Um, I have no pertinence
to the thing that's going on.

Sit down. Sit down.

Anyway, you got there and there was
a kerfuffle when you got there.

So now... he's gone.
Did you finally let him out?

-Nope.
-Were you blocking his car?

-Yes, I was, because...
-Tell me why.

-We have video of it, too.
-Well, my niece...

I'm not speaking to you!

-You have to understand...
-I'm sorry, Your Honor.

You have to understand,
I've been involved

in your kind of businesses,
not personally,

but have had involvement
with those businesses

for a very, very long time.

-They do have a bad reputation.
-They sure do.

And if something like that smells...

which, you say,
it has a bad reputation...

if you're involved in that bad stuff,
the smell sticks.

-[Block] Can I say one thing?
-I'm not finished yet.

I wanna know why
you blocked his son's car.

Well, I needed to get that item
out of the garage.

-What item?
-It's a clothes hamper,

and it had some random things in it.

-Who put it in the garage?
-[Lucero] I guess his house manager.

That garage is "off-limits"
to the residents.

-Do you know why?
-I know he keeps...

[Judy] Why is the garage
off-limits to residents, sir?

To secure, uh, preparation...
food preparation items

'cause we room and board,
so we provide the food as well.

If we didn't have it in the...
a secured area, then every...

it would be gone every week
before we could make our meals.

So, we have to secure it in there.

And it's also used
for when residents move out,

to secure their items
and put it in there, so...

the other residents don't go through it.
'Cause they have a tendency,

once they hear somebody's moving,
to go through it and pillage everything.

[Judy] So, she's looking
for her niece's hamper.

-Yes, it might've...
-No.

-She's looking for her niece's hamper.
-Okay.

Everything else was packed up
in garbage bags, is that correct?

Yes.

And the only thing that remained
was the hamper...

-Correct.
-...that you wanted to get.

He shows up.

Hysterically.

Well, right now,
you're blocking his son in

in his car, so he can't leave.
Whatever that means.

By the way,
when she blocked your car in...

did you go back into the house
and call your father?

I remained outside.
I called him inside of my car.

When you received
the phone call from your son,

I want you to tell me what he said to you.

He said, "Some lady is yelling at me
about getting into the garage,

and then she parked behind me
and won't let me leave.

What do you want me to do?"

-I said, "Sit tight, I'll be right there."
-So, you came home.

And when you came home to the house,
tell me exactly what you saw.

Um, her dark utility vehicle
at the end of the driveway blocking,

uh, my son, who was parked
on the driveway.

And what did you do?

I was pretty fumed at that point.
Somebody, you know, involving my kid

in something like that
and holding him hostage, of sorts.

And so, I was pretty, um, irate.

I started telling her, "You gotta move.
It's ill*gal for you to be here."

And she would argue back...

Just a second.
Did she tell you, Mr. Block,

that all she wanted was the hamper
from the garage?

-[Block] Yes.
-[Judy] Did you give it to her?

-[Block] Not at that point.
-[Judy] Why?

At that point, all of her belongings
wasn't at that same location.

[Judy] ...listen to me, sir.
Answer my question.

She asked you for the hamper.
There's no question she did.

And she said it's in the garage.
Why didn't you give it to her?

Did you not give it to her
because you were angry at that point?

-Uh, yes,
-[Judy] Just...

-I was arguing with her and didn't want...
-[Judy] You were arguing...

I didn't want to cooperate with somebody
who was holding my son hostage.

He wasn't hostage, he was in his car.
And his father was there. Sit!

-[Judy] So, you were angry?
-[Block] Yes.

Okay. Now, you knew
that the plaintiff's niece

is a challenged child.

Yes. All of our residents are.

[Judy] And this scene that you made,
by not giving her the hamper,

was in front of her niece,
who was in the car.

It was both ways. She was arguing
and yelling and using profanity as well.

It was a back and forth.
It wasn't a one-way situation like that.

It was an ongoing argument
between each other,

and eventually, I did break it off
and disengage to go talk to my son.

And at that point, is when I figured out

-how to get his car outta there.
-[Judy] I'm gonna...

I'm gonna look at the video.

-Did you bring me the video or did she?
-I did.

I'd like to see it.

[Block] Genius human being.

[Judy] Okay.

[Block] And by the way,
the bags sitting in the back...

[Ryan] Absolutely brilliant.

-[Block] ...is where I sat the bags.
-[Judy] Shh! Shh!

[Ryan] Yeah this is,
this is a good idea of justice,

blocking the driveway.

Calling the cops for no reason.

Smart human being.

Genius.

-[Block] That was the entirety.
-Who's taking the picture?

-My son.
-So, he was outside his car...

-[Block] At the moment, yeah.
-...taking a photograph, hardly hostage.

I want you to tell me...

what you did.

Did you put your hands on the car?

-No...oh, yes, I opened up...
-Did you put your hands on the car?

-[Block] On the handle, yes.
-[Judy] Well, that's the car.

-[Judy] And did you open the door?
-[Block] Yes.

-[Judy] Which door?
-The front door.

[Judy] Front driver's door.

-That's right, front driver's.
-Who was in the driver's seat?

The plaintiff.

And what did you intend to accomplish
by opening up her door?

Again, not being completely rational,
I was just trying to convince her to move.

-[Block] And...
-No! That doesn't convince her to move.

That could scare you,
if you weren't being rational.

Going over and opening up her car door.

-Okay.
-[Judy] Okay.

[dramatic music plays]

He grabbed my car door remote,

slammed that door, hit my windshield,
went to the backdoor.

He had to have scratched it with this.

And then, after he got
his son's car out, he came

head on at my car,
like he was gonna hit us head on.

[dramatic music plays]

[dramatic music plays]

[narrator] Wanda Lucero
has accused her niece's former landlord,

Lawrence Block,
of damaging their personal property.

Lawrence claims Wanda threatened his son

and escalated the situation.

Now, tell me what happened
when he got there?

When he got there, he was cussing,
calling me every name...

[Judy] Got it. He was angry
'cause you were blocking his son's car.

-[Lucero] Right.
-And he had to come back there

-'cause you were moving out.
-[Lucero] Right.

There's no question that
he would've come back there

'cause you were moving out anyway.

'Cause he got a call from his house
manager-slash-your niece's roommate,

-who had her steal property from Walmart.
-[Lucero] Yes.

I offered her a time
to come back and get the stuff.

I...It wasn't available at the moment

because I thought some of it
was at another location.

There's no available. All she wanted
was the hamper from the garage.

-[Block] I understand.
-That's what she said she wanted.

That's not it's all over the place.
It's a... that's not...

All she wanted was the hamper
from the garage.

Everything else was there and packed.

She was ready to go.
She just wanted the hamper.

He had no authority to give her the hamper
or couldn't get into the garage.

He didn't know how
to get into the garage.

Actually, I'm sure your son
said to you,

if you're a smart man,
"Well, what do they want?"

And I assume he said to you,
they want a hamper from the garage.

I assume he said that to you,
or he wasn't listening.

That he wasn't listening to.

Did he tell you that
that's what they wanted?

-Not that I recall.
-[Judy] Okay.

So, now, tell me what he did to your car.

-He opens the car door...
-[Lucero] He opened the car door.

I thought he was gonna hit me.
My sister and niece were scared to death.

They were hysterical.
"Let's go, he's gonna k*ll us," you know.

'Cause he was outta control.

And he grabbed my car door remote.

Slammed that door, hit my windshield,
went to the backdoor.

He had to have scratched it with this.

Opened that door,

and threw her bags
of belongings out in the street.

And then, after he got his son's car out...

Well, how did he get the son's car out?
He went up on the curb?

Yeah. And then he came head on at my car
like he was gonna hit us head on.

Matter of fact, the son, in the driveway,

kept backing up
like he was gonna hit my car.

-[Judy] Well, you should've let him out.
-[Lucero] Yeah.

-[laughs]
-[Judy] You should've let him out.

-Yeah.
-You have no right to block him in.

I know, but he should've
let us in that garage.

Just a second. It's not his responsibility
to let you in the garage.

Let's understand each other.
It's not his responsibility.

He's not in charge of that house.

If it was a hamper and clothes
you were looking for,

you'd be smart.
You'd get your niece out of there.

You go to wherever you're gonna take her.
And then you make a communication:

"Listen, we left a hamper there."

Either you get it or you don't get it.

But blocking him in
is not what you're legally able to do.

-Do you understand that?
-Yes.

That's why he got frustrated.
There's no question about that.

He handled it all wrong.
You can't put your hands on her car.

You can't take out the bags from the car.
You can't run over them.

-I did not run 'em over.
-[Judy] You can't...

-You can't scratch her car.
-I didn't do that, either.

Well, she's gonna show me pictures, sir.

-[Block] Of a scratch?
-And that's what she's here for.

She has to convince me
that you damaged property

and you took property without permission.

As the video shows,
the bags were not thrown,

or sprawled out or ran over
as she's claiming, either.

No, she didn't say sprawled out, sir.

You touched somebody else's property,

and you have no right to do that.

You were angry.
You have no right to touch her car,

scare her physically.

And if you threw,
not gently put the bags of stuff...

Oh, there's no question in my mind

that if you're angry
or you grabbing them out of the car,

you're not grabbing them out of the car
and gently putting them down.

[Judy] Whatever.
Show me the car's damage, please.

-I did not throw them.
-[Judy] All right.

You shouldn't be taking care
of challenged people in your house.

You should get off every list.

I know it's a business,
and I know people have to do it.

Not you.

Okay.

-Damage to the car?
-[Lucero] Right here.

-Is this the damage? Is this the...
-[Lucero] Crack, yeah.

-[Judy] Hm?
-[Lucero] Uh-huh, yes.

-[Judy] Did you have it fixed?
-[Lucero] Yes.

-[Judy] I'd like to see the bill for it.
-[Lucero] Okay.

[Judy] So, is what you're telling me,
your out-of-pocket was $250?

-Yes.
-[Judy] Okay,

to fix your car was more money,
but that was your deductible, $250.

-[Lucero] Right.
-[Judy] Okay. So, we have $250.

What else?

[Lucero] He took my garage door opener,
so I had to buy a new one.

-How much was that?
-$134.95.

I didn't touch a garage door opener.

-[Judy] What else?
-[Lucero] And...

the rental car was $366.20 that I was in

while my car was getting worked on.

[Judy] Just a second.
Did your insurance pay for that?

-Uh...
-[Judy] Yes, they had to.

-Yeah.
-[Judy] Yes, of course, they did.

Because if you had
a $250 deductible on your car,

then there's no question
in my mind that you had...

-Right.
-...rental car. Okay. Right.

Three eighty-five,
judgement for the plaintiff.

Thank you very much. We're finished.

-Thank you, Your Honor.
-[bailiff] Court is adjourned.

That was no problem
as far as her moving out.

That's a normal part of the business.

What was very upsetting is
somebody involving my son

and... and trapping him
from being able to move.

Because what I wanted wouldn't have taken
more than 30 seconds to get.

I'm disabled, so I always
look for the easiest route.

I do regret I was pretty fumed,
but it was because, you know that...

that papa bear part of me
came out and I just...

somebody was attacking my kid
in my head, so...

The way he was cussing and carrying on...

I wanted to go full-force, and I went
too far, with verbalizing, anyways.

Just screen 'em good.

A good point that this case highlighted
that I actually couldn't believe

that I want to look into
a little bit more,

is that just anybody can rent or own
a five-bedroom,

however-many-bedroom home,

and just open their doors
and get put on a list

for rooms for rent for people
with real challenges or disabilities.

You've been in the business
longer than me,

but you need a license
to give a pedicure in most places.

[chuckles] Right.

So the fact that this man can just open up
a home that he was renting

and be put on a list that's a safe haven
for these people to live,

secure living environment,
food, shelter, all of that.

To me, it's kind of outrageous

that you don't need any sort of check
and balance or any license.

Any sort of license
or government oversight.

Exactly. Especially
with such a class of people

that require extra care and help.

And I really couldn't believe that.

My...uh, yeah, it's problematic

because for adults
who have challenges,

-there are so few facilities...
-Yeah.

...and it's such a vulnerable population.

And to force that vulnerable population
into being in place

that is not carefully scrutinized
by either a locality

or the federal government,
because very often there are federal funds

that filter down into these places.

It's just so monumentally sad...

-All the way around.
-...that, yeah.

It is monumentally sad.

I think the plaintiff said it best herself

when asked how to avoid
types of problems like these, she said,

"You really have to screen them
very well."

And to put that burden on an already
vulnerable population of people,

I think, someone else
should be vetting these places.

Yeah. Agreed.

[narrator] Have you been cheated?


[end theme music plays]