03x11 - Piglet Wars

[bunniefuu]

You sell miniature pigs.
One of them died.

Correct.

Maybe you fed it something wrong.

That's not the reason it died, though.

I have documents from the vet.

I'm talking.

You don't want me
just to dismiss your whole case,

which I'm thoroughly prepared to do.
I have other things to do today.

[narrator]
This is Judy Justice.

I don't care.

[theme music playing]

[narrator] Karen Garlick is suing
her former customer, Ashley Settimi,

for slander and the cost
of two miniature pigs.

[Kevin]
Court, come to order. All rise.

Have a seat, everyone.

Hello, Judge. Case 3029,
Garlick versus Settimi.

-Thank you.
-You're welcome.

Miss Garlick, you have a business.

I don't know if this is your main
business, but you sell miniature pigs.

That is correct. This is
one of my major businesses.

How long have you been doing that?

About 18 years.

You have photographs
of what your pigs look like?

-Sure
-May I take a look at them, please?

Do you want the ones
that she got off of me?

-[Judy] No, no...
-Oh, adult ones?

I do have some adult ones.

Here is...

Here's a couple photos for her.

Okay, I'm going to try
to simplify this if I can.

And these are babies, or are these...

-Those are older ones.
-They're adults.

[Karen] They're like a year old,
eight months to a year old.

[Judy]
How much do they weigh?

Typically, if you feed correctly,
anywhere from about 12 pounds

up to about 40 pounds,
about the size of a medium-sized dog.

Okay. And do they live in the house?

These are house pets.
So they're litter box trained.

I try to train them
before they ever leave.

I spend a lot of time with that.

[Judy] Okay. How much
do you sell them for?

[Karen] Typically, my prices range
between about 2,000,

depending on age and size,
up to about 3,500.

And I assume that in this business,
the smaller they are...

-The more they cost.
-The more they cost.

And also, the youngest,
the younger they are, the more they cost.

Okay. You were buying these
as pets for yourself?

Correct.

-And you were going to buy two?
-Yes.

Where did you see the plaintiff
advertising the piglets,

or did you hear it by word of mouth?

Uh, just Google.

Just tell me, what would inspire you
to get a pig instead of a dog?

Well, I have three dogs
and three cats. Um...

But I went to the state fair and I saw
them in, the piglets in the birthing barn.

-Okay, and you fell in love. Got it.
-There we go.

Got it. So you bought two pigs.

According to both of you,
you gave a deposit for the pigs, correct?

Yes, she gave a deposit on each pig

because the amount was more
and she didn't have enough right then,

so she was gonna make payments.

Okay. And in total,
she paid you how much?

She paid me $1,500 deposit
on each piglet.

And then she gave me three payments
of 250 Zelle payments,

which she used to pay
for $250 every two weeks.

Okay. So she paid you $3,750 altogether?

Yes. Which she's reversed
all that money...

-[Judy] I understand that.
-Oh, okay.

And the total purchase price
for the two pigs that she purchased...

-Each one was 2,700.
-[Judy] Okay.

Well, let me go through something
that each of you agree on.

-She purchased two. You sent them to her.
-Correct.

In transit, before she got them,
one of them died.

-Yes, due to complications. Okay.
-I don't...

One of them didn't die in your custody,
it died in transit.

-[Karen] Correct.
-Okay. So we don't know,

but we know that certainly...

-Correct.
-...the piglet didn't die of old age,

it died in transit, so,
she only received one...

-[Karen] Right.
-...at that time.

And what was the date of that?

She had it delivered
on the 21st of September.

Okay. And when you contracted
for these piglets,

Miss Settimi, did you sign a contract?

I did not, no.

Did you get any paperwork at all from her?

I have text messages, uh,
stating the amount owed.

No. Do you have a contract?

I didn't have a contract with her.
I did send her multiple...

Well, just a second.
You didn't have a contract with her.

[Karen] No.

So you got the pig,
and there were no other terms

that were agreed to
by both of you in writing,

other than the price.

And what was the total price?

Fifty-four hundred.
That's what she owed, total.

And of that, she gave you 3,750. Okay.

At some point, you took another piglet,
Miss Settimi,

to replace the one
that had died in transit.

No, um, when Miss Garlick...

Just a second. Well, you say you did.
So you gotta get your story straight.

At some point, you accepted
a second piglet from the plaintiff

to replace the one
who had died in transit.

It was get the pig
or get no money back.

-So those were my two options.
-[Judy] Just a second.

Well, that's true, Miss Settimi,

because you don't
have a contract with her,

-according to you...
-Yep.

...that you can show me.

She doesn't either.

So in a contract for an animal that...

I know I've purchased

over the last 60 years
from a breeder,

it usually says that
there is a health guarantee

until you take the dog to a vet.

Or if the dog has a congenital illness
and it's discovered by a vet,

you get either a return of your money
or pick of the litter.

There are all kinds of the terms
contained in a contract

that I know I've always gotten,
and so you understand them.

If you bought these pigs from her,
and you bought them

without any written conditions,
then she has to...

I do have a written thing
that was sent to her.

I don't care whether it was sent to her
or whether or not she acknowledged it.

-You can't have a one-sided contract.
-Right.

-You understand that.
-I do.

[Judy]
You don't have a one-sided contract.

So unless she agreed to that someplace,

which she clearly did not, that's
meaningless, what you're gonna show me.

And if you pay attention
and don't shout out, maybe you'll find out

that what I'm saying to her
is to your benefit,

and you're not supposed to interfere

when the fact finder
seems to be finding in your favor.

So she was under no obligation
to return your money.

Uh, no. She had, in her own writing...

So I'm just telling you, you accept...

The answer is,
you accepted a second pig.

Yes, I did. Yep.

-[Judy] Was it in September?
-It was. I didn't... Yes.

In September. On what date
did you accept the second pig?

The second pig? I did not receive that
until a month later,

which was October 19th.

Fine. So these are a couple of questions
I have specifically for you.

The first pig that you got from her
on September 21st is named what?

-That is alive?
-[Judy] Yes.

Um, that is Bacon.

And what did you name the second pig
that you got on October 19th?

That was Hammy.

And according to your papers,
you took Hammy and Bacon

to the vet on the 28th of October.

The 26th,
I brought them to the vet.

That's different from what you said here.

I assume you have the paperwork
from the vet.

Yep, I have the discharge summary.
Would you like that?

Here you say in your answer
that you took them on the 28th

and you got an estimate
for spaying them.

I went on the 26th, and at that point

I found out that the pigs
were not spayed as per...

As per what?

As per our conversation.

I have a conversation
saying that the pig will be spayed.

And on the 26th I went to the vet,

found out it was not spayed, and said,
"How much would it be to spay?"

I got a quote on the 28th, and that is...

Did you take the pigs back
for the quote?

No.

[Karen]
Your Honor, since they were spayed...

Just a second. I'm talking.

You don't want me
just to dismiss your whole case?

-No.
-[Judy] Right.

Which I'm thoroughly prepared to do.
I have other things to do today.

All I know is you brought in
two healthy pigs...

Yep.

[Judy]
...shortly after being seen by the vet,

who described the pigs
as happy and healthy.

One of them died.
What does that have to do with her?

They're in your care.
What does that have to do with her?

[theme music playing]

[narrator] Karen Garlick claims
her former customer, Ashley Settimi,

slandered her business and owes
for the cost of two miniature pigs.

Ashley is countersuing for vet bills.

On the 26th, you took the pigs to the vet.

Correct.

-Were the pigs given in ivermectin?
-[Ashley] Yes.

-[Judy] Both of them?
-Yes.

May I see, by the way,
the vet papers from that date?

Absolutely.

Would you like the quote as well,
or just the...

I don't want the quote. I want the...

Vet's notes.

So you had both pigs
from the 19th of October

until you took the pigs to the vet
on the 26th,

so the 19th, 20th,


-[Ashley] Yep. Yes.
-Correct?

Yep is not an answer. Yes.

And when you went to the vet
for the pigs, according to you,

the pigs were...

And according to the vet...

Yep. Yes.

...the pigs were healthy,
according to you, playful.

I'm gonna read what they said.

I wouldn't say healthy...

Just a second.
Well, that's what it says.

It says they have mites, mange,
and parasites...

[Judy] No, no, no, what I'm telling you
is what they said.

-"Bacon," who you still have.
-[Ashley] Yep, yes.

[Judy] Yeah. "And Hammy
presented for examination.

When Hammy arrived,
she had a pendulous belly

that the breeder attributed to a parasite.

And she was dewormed with a product
provided by the breeder,

after which this appearance resolved."

This is according to you,
this is what you gave the vet.

"And Hammy began to gain weight."

Yes.

"Both pigs are bright and active at home
with excellent appetites"

So far, that's what the vet is getting
from you about the pigs...

-Yep.
-...that they're both happy, healthy.

She gave you stuff to deworm them.
Hammy started to gain weight.

And then the vet gave them this medicine

and two days later, Hammy died.

This is from your history to the vet
that the pigs were fine.

The vet gave both pigs
this very strong medication.

And I want you to describe
what happened to the pig

the day after you came back from the vet.

-Perfectly fine.
-[Judy] Okay.

And can I just say that the ivermectin,
that's the same stuff that Karen gave me.

Who knows how much the vet gave them?

All I know is you brought in
two healthy pigs.

Yes.

[Judy]
Shortly after being seen by the vet,

who described the pigs as happy
and healthy, one of them died.

What does that have to do with her?
They're in your care.

What does that have to do with her?

You're saying it was the medication.
It's the same medication that was given...

It depends upon how much medication
you give an animal.

This was a swine specialist.

Listen, I don't care, madam.

I want you to understand that, A,
you have no health guarantee.

But even if you had a health guarantee,
what I'm reading from the vet

is you reported that the pigs were fine,
happy and healthy.

She had given you
a certain amount of this,

to get rid of the parasites,
which you reported to the vet worked.

And then the pig is seen by the vet
who gives the pig more of that,

toxic if taken in too high a dose,
and died.

That's not the reason it died, though.

I'm reading your papers.

How many days after Hammy
was given this dose by the vet

did the pig die?

How many days after?

-I'm reading you. I have your papers.
-Three.

Well, then maybe, you did something
three days later.

Maybe you fed it something wrong.
It's not her problem.

It's your problem. By that time...
By that time, she has sent you a piglet

that you've had for ten days.

Now, how many pigs do you have
that were purchased from her

that you currently have home?

One.

Okay. And that would be Bacon.

[Ashley] Correct.

[Judy]
What was the total price for Bacon?

Seven hundred and fifty dollars.

Well, that's not what Bacon cost.

-Bacon cost $2,500...
-[Judy] Twenty-seven.

Twenty-five hundred. You can look at
my text messages that I have here.

[Judy] Okay.
May I see the text message, please?

-These are two of them...
-Hold on. Shh.

She's got confirmations on that one
and the second page as well.

Okay. "Cash price, $4,900," Karen.

"Finance price is always more.
I don't charge interest."

Me: "This is what I think is fair:
I owe you $4,900 for the two pigs.

I gave you 3,000.
I owe you 1,900.

PayPal took $90 because
I did the PayPal protection.

I will absolve," you mean absorb, "that
and round the remaining out to $2,000.

I'll pay you $250 each week."

Every other week.

Bup-bup-bup. And she says, okay.
So now we have a contract.

"Perfect. Would that be okay?" "Yes."

And then you say,
"Do they have any vaccines yet?"

"Yes, they will be vaccinated."
So you agree on that.

"Do you have any warranty on the pigs?"
This is September 20th.

"I don't want to accept delivery if they
are sick and going to die in a few weeks.

"Yes, 90-day replacement."

Okay, 90-day replacement
is what she says.

Not your money back.

Ninety-day replacement.
That's your contract.

Could you please now show me
where she agrees to...

I don't see it, and I don't want
to look through this whole thing.

Show me where the price includes spaying.

Uh, that would be on her website.

[Karen]
No, it's not on the web...

-No... Just a second.
-[Ashley] I have a...

Show me there, which is what
I asked you for.

-There in the messages...
-[Ashley] I can show you better.

How about a voicemail from her
where she stated that there could be...

Could you just do me a favor?
Madam, would you show me there...

I believe it is
a verbal voicemail from her.

I don't believe it is written.
I believe it's a verbal voicemail.

Well, what do you mean you believe?

I don't think it's in this.

[Judy]
So it's not in that.

I will continue looking,
but I know that...

Continue looking.

I will.

It's not in there. No.

Okay. Now,
you say you have a voicemail

where she says that the $4,900
includes spaying.

I'll hear it.

I absolutely do.

By the way, were they
two females that were bought?

-Females.
-[Judy] Okay.

[Karen] Your Honor, I spay all the males,
but I never spay females.

-Listen to me.
-Okay.

[Judy]
She says she has a voicemail

that says that the $4,900 for the two pigs

includes spaying.

I'd like to see that.

She says she has it. I want to see it.

[Karen on voicemail]
I also have a loss.

You know, I shouldn't have
gotten it spayed before it went,

but that was my understanding,
is you wanted it done.

Just explain to me,
this says, if I'm hearing correctly,

that one of the piglets was spayed.

Yes. I have documents from the vet.

[Judy]
May I see them, please?

That is not true.

[theme music playing]

[narrator] Karen Garlick is accusing
her former customer, Ashley Settimi,

of refusing to pay for the piglets
she purchased.

Ashley claims she received sick piglets
and Karen owes for the vet bills.

Okay.

Press it. I don't know where...

Well, give it to Sarah.

-Sure, yeah.
-[Kevin laughs]

It should be 40 seconds.

[Karen on voicemail]
So we're both at a loss with this

because I haven't
had this happen for years.

You know, I understand where you're upset,
you lost the one,

so please get a hold of me
so we can get something worked out.

Because I understand your frustration,
but you've gotta understand mine as well.

I also have a loss.

You know, I shouldn't
have gotten it spayed before it went,

but that was my understanding,

is you wanted it done, prior to going,

and that's the discussion
I had gotten from you,

and so I went and got that done,

plus, you couldn't take her
until after the 17th,

so we had to arrange the shipping,
you know, after that point,

so the other one's
getting delivered also tonight.

But, ah, you know,
this kind of puts me in a predicament.

Just explain to me,
this says, if I'm hearing correctly,

that one of the piglets was spayed.

They both were spayed.
The one that died was spayed.

That's why it died,
in my professional opinion.

I went through four years of
veterinary technology school as well.

Okay. So the one that died,
the one that didn't make it in transit...

-[Karen] Mm-hmm.
-...was spayed?

-[Karen] Yes, correct. And the other one.
-Just a second.

And Bacon.

Bacon and Hammy. The first,
whatever the first one she called.

Were both spayed?

Yes, I have documents from the vet.

[Judy]
May I see them, please?

That is not true.

I actually spoke with her
and she said her sons mixed it up.

Birth dates are on there from the vet
and the color and everything.

Just a second.

I actually called the vet as well.

You can't tell me
what the vet said to you.

What color are the pigs that you got?

They are chipmunk colored,
but there are multiple in their litter.

She tried selling me two.

-Just answer my question.
-They're chipmunk colored.

-They're chipmunk color.
-They're brown, yep.

One of them striped?

I'm not sure what
you would consider striped.

That's what chipmunks is called, striped.

[Judy]
And red and white?

That was the one, for sure.

They were both spayed on September 13th.

Correct.

Now, tell me, you went to reverse
all the charges that you had paid for her.

Because you had paid her
a certain amount of money, $3,750.

Did you get all that money back?

-No.
-[Judy] How much did you get back?

Three thousand dollars.

And then the Zelle account
suspended that...

[Judy]
Just a second.

[Karen] They took it from me
and they've got it suspended

-because she claimed I was fraudulent.
-[Judy] Just a second. Just a second.

She now has two pigs.

What happened to them in her care is,
as you understand...

I don't... I have one.

I don't care whether
you have one now, madam.

I just told you, I just told you,
you had two pigs

that were healthy,
according to the vet.

After you had had the replacement pig
for over ten days,

it died after it had seen a vet
that reported it healthy.

You say it was three days.

If it was the next day,
I would say it was the shot

the vet gave him that caused her to die,
but you said it was three days later.

I don't know what you fed it,
I don't know what you did to it.

I don't know who else took care of it.
It's irrelevant.

She's entitled to her money for two pigs.

And if you had that reversed by the bank,
you can't do that.

You had a 90-day replacement
for the pigs, and she replaced it.

And she has received zero money.

[Ashley]
Seven fifty.

That's zero money.

I don't have it.

And I don't believe
that it's on hold either.

-It is.
-Just a second. You don't have what?

The 750 I sent her,
I did a dispute on it,

and they said that because
it was not fraudulent, she still has it.

For the $5,000 that these two pigs cost,

you paid, according to you, $750.

[Ashley]
That's correct.

-[Judy] Well, you owe her the rest.
-For...

You owe her the money. I'm finding.

Now we're finished...
Now we're finished with testimony,

and I'm telling you
that the death of one of the pigs,

you have one,
the death of the other one

happened in your care,
whatever it was.

If you don't want to blame the vet,
blame yourself, not her.

You had a healthy pig
when that pig went to the vet

over a week after it arrived from her.

So it's your fault
and you owe her the rest of the money.

Did you get the 750 from her?
That's either a yes or a no.

-No.
-[Judy] No.

You owe her $4,900 for the two pigs.
Judgment for the plaintiff.

-We're finished.
-[Ashley] I have a counterclaim.

It's dismissed.

-[Kevin] This court is adjourned.
-What about my slander?

-[Judy] It's dismissed.
-Okay.

[Judy]
I tell you one other thing.

If you post anything derogatory
about her business again,

she's going to see you back in court,
either mine or somebody else's.

-Do you understand?
-Yes.

-[Judy] Perfect.
-Thank you, Your Honor. Thank you.

Some people think they get something
for nothing anymore,

and it's just the way it is.

People try to cheat ya.

You know, I got three pigs from her,
two of them died.

You know, I get so attached because
I'm very passionate about my animals.

I'm very passionate
about my business and my customers.

And two out of three, um, that's not,
that's not a good record.

So this is just really
heart set to me because...

Two pigs dying,
there's something goofy going on there.

Anytime a little animal dies like that,
I take hard.

Moral of the case:

If you're going to spend
thousands of dollars on a pet,

have a contract in writing
as to what your expectations are

so that you have a price,
you have whatever guarantees there are.

You have whatever exchange policies
there are.

Because what happened in there
is I had to create a contract

-out of... out of text mails.
-Nothing. Out of texts, voicemails...

Out of text messages.
"I agree to pay." "Yes."

Well, that's a meeting of the minds
as to a term.

But that's an unprofessional way
of the plaintiff

to deal with a business
that is a substantial business,

if she has 18 pigs.

And it's really not a smart way
for the defendant,

to whom money is important,

$5,000 has to be important to her,

would go into a business arrangement
without a formal writing.

Yeah, and just the secondary point
that I was thinking of is,

we would want that contract
to exist for anything,

for a car, for a transfer of funds,

but especially you want those details
and those guarantees for a life.

-You're talking about a living animal.
-Right. An animal, right.

And I think that requires,
from both ends,

a lot more words, a lot more words,
a lot more signed pages, something more...

-It requires a contract.
-A contract.

It requires a contract.
And she's in the breeding business.

She's been doing it for 18 years,
she should have a contract.

Listing whatever her terms may be,
maybe it's, "You don't get a refund,

but I'll send you a replacement."

That's perfectly fine.

-But all of those expectations...
-Should be in a contract.

[narrator]
Are you having a family dispute?



[theme music playing]