02x110 - Co-Parenting Strife

[bunniefuu]

You were living together
and conceived a child with him.

He began exhibiting behaviors
of somebody who was using drugs.

You called child protective services

for kidnapping your son.

- She left the jurisdiction.
- Yes, ma'am.

- How long?
- Six months.

- You wouldn't like that.
- I... I would not.

Well, he's a parent,
just like you are.

[announcer]
This is Judy Justice.

[theme music playing]

[announcer] Eve Rockhill is suing
her ex-boyfriend, Andrew Tallon,

for the cost of a car he wrecked
during an accident.

[bailiff]
Court come in order. All rise.

Have a seat, please.

Hello, judge.
Case 21- 63, Rockhill vs. Tallon.

- Thank you.
- You're welcome.

[Judy] Ms Rockhill,
this is basically what the case is about.

You and the defendant
were in a relationship,

you have one child together,

and it is your claim that some
three years ago he took your car,

with your permission.

- You were living together at the time?
- Yes.

He took your car and had an accident.

- Correct, yes.
- And that was three years ago,

and you want him to pay
$5,000 on a car

that Sarah has already checked,
which is worth...

Between 1,400 and 3,000.

Which is worth a quarter of that.

- Do you understand?
- Correct, yeah.

Yeah, okay, so I want you to forget
about $5,000.

So if he's responsible
for anything for the car,

he's responsible for what it's value is,

which is about 1,400 bucks.

How long had you been living together
when he borrowed the car.

About a year.

[Judy] Okay, and was your child
born during that time?

- Yes.
- [Judy] What month and year

was the child born?

August 2018.

When was the first time
that you asked Mr. Tallon

for money for this car
that had been in an accident?

After he was released from jail,

he got arrested from a previous warrant,
um, at the scene of the accident,

uh, directly from the hospital,

so when he was released from jail.

What was the date of the accident?

April 30th, 2019.

And how long were you held in jail, sir?

I believe June 11th or so.

- Roughly almost six weeks.
- [Judy] What was the warrant for?

Domestic battery.

- [Judy] Against whom?
- Against Eve.

- [Judy] Against her?
- [Andrew] Against Eve.

Yes, against her.

While you were living together,
did you file another complaint

after the accident?

No, I didn't. There was a warrant
from the initial complaint.

And what year was that?

That was around November of 2018.

But you remained living together
and you had a child together.

Why didn't you just withdraw that case?

[Eve]
I did withdraw it.

I didn't realize that a warrant
had been released

until it was, until it was acted upon.

Well, when he was arrested and he was held
in jail, he contacted you, correct?

- Yes.
- [Judy] Of course he did.

Because he said, "What's going on?
We're living together, we have a child,

what's this warrant for domestic battery?"

It just took time for me
to get it dismissed.

[Judy] No, what I'm asking you is,
he contacted you?

- Yes.
- [Judy] And when he was released in June,

of 2019, where did he go to live?

- Uh, he came back.
- For what period of time?

About a month,
maybe two months at the most.

And you lived together
as a couple,

- with the baby.
- Yes.

[Judy] And how old was
the baby at the time?

He would've been about

between six and eight months,
off the top of my head.

- And the two of you cared for him.
- Yes.

[Judy] And during that
two or three month period

there was no discussion,
that you have in writing,

about paying back for the car.

- Not in writing.
- [Judy] Not in writing.

And what happened after the two months?

He began exhibiting behaviors that were

the behaviors of somebody
who was using drugs again.

Um, he was clean
for a long period of time,

and he just, his attitude changed,

his behaviors changed,
and I decided that

it was time for him to go back
to his mother's house.

- [Judy] And he did.
- Correct, yes.

- That was after a couple of months?
- Yes.

So that would've been in maybe August
or September, is that right, sir?

- Yes, ma'am.
- [Judy] Okay, so in August or September.

Did he continue to see his son?

He did, yeah. I would, um,
I would bring Eden down

to his mother's house
for them to have visits together.

His mother has always been
a safe spot for them to visit.

All right, and how long did you do that?

Up until recently.

- We're pretty much...
- Recently, so you're talking about

'19, '20, '21.

- Yes.
- [Judy] Right.

There was a period of time where,

because he was living with his mother
at first, there was a period of time

where I didn't know where he was living,
it made me uncomfortable

that I was bringing my son, even though
they were visiting at his mother's house,

it made me uncomfortable
that he wouldn't let me know

and address for him, just in case
anything happened, just in case,

you know, anything,
anything happened, basically.

He wouldn't, he didn't give me an address

or me to find him, or for me to know
where Eden might be

if anything were to happen.

So, what I'm getting
is for three years after this accident

there was no request
that you can demonstrate,

and you weren't together, certainly,
so for the last two years,

you never went and filed claiming
that he owed you money for the car.

- So, I... Sorry.
- Just, is that correct.

No. I did attempt to file several times,

but I didn't have an address for him.
I did tried to file once for an address...

Do you have any proof of that?

- I do not.
- [Judy] No.

You continued to bring your son

for visitation with his father.

- Correct.
- [Judy] Which is a very easy thing to do,

you're a smart enough gal,
I'm gathering that.

You bring a friend,
you serve him personally

with a summons and complaint.

So the answer is for three years
you did nothing.

Now I'm gonna find out why,
after three and a half years,

you've filed this complaint
over a $1,400 car.

- The child is no longer in your custody.
- Temporarily.

[Judy] The child is no longer
in your custody.

The child is in the physical custody
of the paternal grandmother.

- And that is by court order.
- Yes.

And they found that the child
would be at risk in your custody.

Yes.

[announcer] Eve Rockhill claims
her ex- boyfriend, Andrew Tallon

owes for totaling her car.

Andrew is countersuing
for emotional distress and attorney fees

after Eve took their son.

Okay, you bring a friend,
you serve him personally

with a summons and complaint.

So, the answer is for three years
you did nothing.

Now I'm gonna find out why,
after three and a half years,

you've filed this complaint
over a $1,400 car.

Now, Mr. Tallon says
in his cross complaint

that there came a time
when you left the state,

the jurisdiction,
that was the child's home state.

Yes.

And when did you leave the jurisdiction?

That was in September of 2021.

And you went from where to where?

We went from Florida, we stopped
in South Carolina for a period of time,

we had a little vacation before we had
to go, cause we were going to work,

we were going to clear
a property out for sale.

So you left the jurisdiction
with the child.

- Yes.
- [Judy] Prior to that,

Mr. Tallon had been seeing the child

- regularly at his mother's house.
- [Eve] Yes.

- Did you tell him you were leaving?
- Yes.

What did he say when you told him
you were leaving?

He didn't really say anything,
he just wanted to spend time with him,

which he was, you know, they did
spend time together before we left.

Not before, after you left.

- You moved to New Jersey.
- I didn't move.

- I didn't move to New Jersey.
- [Judy] What did you do?

So, like I said, we went there
to liquidate a house that we have there.

- It took longer than expected.
- How long?

It took about five months, six months.

Things happened with the closing,
deals were made and fell through.

How long did you tell him
you were gonna be away?

I was only supposed to be away
for two weeks.

That's a big deal, Ms. Rockhill.

- That's a big deal.
- It is.

[Judy] Because if he says,
"I'm taking Eden for a two week vacation,

if that's okay, I know you took him away,
I'd like take him away

for a two week holiday,"
and he goes away for six months,

- you wouldn't like that.
- I... I would not.

[Judy]
You would not.

Well, he's a parent just like you are.

That's what the law says.

The law says men, women, treated
just about equally when they have a child.

If you said to him, "I'm going away
for six months," and he said okay,

well then you'll agree to. But you said,
"We'll be away for two weeks,"

and it lasted longer.

- Yes, that's...
- And during the time

that it lasted longer,

about six months longer
than it was supposed to,

what arrangements did you make
for your son to see his father?

They had video calls regularly, um,

I told him I would be back when,
as soon as I could.

Let me... just a second. So the answer is,
you did not make any,

- because he has a counter claim, here.
- Yes.

And his counter claim is for the fact
that you took the child

out of the jurisdiction, deprived him
of the ability to see the child,

subsequently, due to circumstances,
and I'm not sure what that is,

- the child is no longer in your custody.
- Temporarily.

[Judy]
The child is no longer in your custody,

the child is in the physical custody
of the paternal grandmother.

Is that correct?
And that is by court order.

- Yes.
- The beginning of that process

was made in what month and year?

July of 2022.

Was that a child protective proceeding?

It was, yes.

And I assume that if it was
a child protective proceeding,

that the court found
that based upon whatever

was alleged in the petition
that was not brought by him

but by the Department of Social Services

or Child Welfare Administration,

they found that the child
would be at risk in your custody.

Yes.

And as a result of that,
they took the child into care,

and this is all stuff,
cause I've been here,

I've, you know,
this is my bread and butter.

Instead of placing the child
in a strange foster home,

they placed the child
with the defendant's mother.

- Correct.
- [Judy] For how long a period?

Eighteen months?

Indefinite. Um, there's no specified
period of time, however...

Well, they have... the court, if the court
is placing a child through the state,

unless you relinquish
your parental rights, did you do that?

- No, I didn't.
- Okay, unless you relinquished

your parental rights or the court
terminated your parental rights,

they have to review this case periodically
to see whether either one of you

as the parents are ready
to assume custody of the child.

Right? So when is this case
gonna be reviewed?

I believe the next review is in February.

- [Judy] February of this year?
- Of this year, correct, yes.

[Judy] That's a reasonable answer,
so that you do know.

So that's the change in circumstance.

Now, getting back, Ms. Rockhill,
to what motivated you after three years

after you gave him permission
to drive the car and he had an accident,

and you made up this whole
baloney story in your complaint

that says, "Police arrested Andrew
at the scene of the accident

because I had previously filed
a domestic abuse charge against him

and there was a warrant."
But you were living together

during the time that there was
this outstanding warrant,

you were living together
and conceived a child with him.

The child was already conceived,

he was already born at the time
of the domestic violence altercation.

In 2018?

In two thousand, the end of 2018,
yes, he was born in August

and the altercation happened in November.

So he was very young.

But you reunited
and were living together

with him as a family.

- Yes.
- [Judy] All right.

"The police arrested Andrew then
on a domestic abuse charge

and there was a warrant. When Andrew
was released from jail he disappeared."

- [Eve] So...
- [Judy] That's what... Just a second.

That's what you say here.

"He disappeared, my car was fully paid off
and I had no liability insurance.

Andrew refused to pay for my totaled car,

and he refused to see our son.

He moved and went into hiding."

That's what you signed,
that's your complaint.

"I tried to file this small claims case
against him several times,

but could not find his current address."
Well that's not true.

You knew exactly where he was

until you moved out of the jurisdiction
to New Jersey for six months,

because he had been regularly seeing

his son at his mother's house.

But he wasn't living
at his mother's house...

It doesn't make any difference,
that's not what you say here.

[Eve] I did put that he
was at his mother's house.

He may not have been living there.

He may not have wanted you to know
where he was living.

- He didn't, and that's why I said...
- [Judy] That's okay, he doesn't have

to tell you where he's living.

Unless a judge orders him, he doesn't have
to tell you where he's living.

You were having visitation
at his mother's house,

so all of this stuff after the accident
is all a bunch of baloney.

So did there come a time
when you were concerned

that your son was using drugs.

- Um...
- [Judy] That's either a yes or a no.

- Yes.
- [Judy] Yes.

And was it at that time that you suggested
she come and pick up Eden?

I told her to pick him up from school,

I didn't tell her to come pick up Eden
and take off for five months.

[announcer] Eve Rockhill has accused
her ex- boyfriend, Andrew Tallon,

of totaling her car.

Andrew claims Eve kept him
from seeing their son.

You knew exactly where he was
until you moved.

I didn't though. He was not living
at his mother's house at the time,

that was just a place that he was visiting
with Eden and that I would bring him to.

Perfect! So you would set
the terms of that, and the terms were

that he could see the child
even without a court order,

because he was his father and had lived
with him after he got out of jail.

- [Eve] Yes.
- Lived with him,

which you don't say here.
After he got out of jail.

- But I didn't put that...
- I don't think you have a case.

He drove the car with your permission,
you were living together as a couple,

you have a child together,
your case is dismissed.

Now, I want you to tell me, sir,
you have a counter claim

for her kidnapping your son,
she left the jurisdiction.

- You called Child Protective Services.
- Yes, ma'am.

[Judy] Tell me when you called
Child Protective Services.

Because that's the reason
that this lawsuit came about.

The last time I saw him before she left
the state with him was September 19th.

Me and my family, we went to SeaWorld,

and she was supposed to meet me.

She said, when we dropped off,
that she was gonna meet me in Tampa,

and when I called her she said
that she was in Jacksonville.

She lives in Ocala,
so she was like still like two hours

north east of where she lives,
and she wasn't in Tampa,

so I just decided just to take him home
rather than argue. I took him home

and the house was just disgusting,
beer cans filled up in the trash cans.

The living conditions were troubling.

Was there a neglect proceeding?

- For this?
- [Judy] The baby.

I had an interview with the case worker,
the investigator, initially.

[Judy] Were you there in court

- when your mother was granted...
- Yes, ma'am.

- [Judy] Yes?
- Yes, ma'am.

- [Judy] Was Ms. Rockhill?
- [Andrew] Yes, she was there, too.

[Judy]
Do you see your son regularly?

- Yes, ma'am.
- [Judy] So the period of time

when you did not see him
was a six month period, is that right?

That was the second time, yeah.
It happened the year, the year prior,

she did it before, too,

where she removed him from school.

Since I've moved home in 2019,
we've shared custody periodically

until she decides
that she wants to take him

and not allow me to see him,
or for whatever,

it's just, I think it's a control thing.

And this was the second time.
My counterclaim is for the second time.

How long was the first time?

Roughly the same time,
five months, six months.

[Judy]
Where did you go the first time?

I didn't go anywhere, I actually received
a text from his mother, Angel,

to come pick up Eden.
Andrew was using drugs again

and come pick up Eden, it'd be easiest
to do it while he was at school

to avoid potentially traumatizing Eden.

- [Judy] Did you send that email?
- I did not send her an email, no.

- [Eve] It was a text.
- A text.

- [Angel] I sent her a text message.
- Okay, just a second.

You're his mother, come.

You sent her a text message,
that's not something she would make up

because I'm gonna ask to see it,
she's gonna show me.

So did there come a time
when you were concerned

that your son was using drugs?

- Um...
- [Judy] That's either a yes or a no.

- Yes.
- [Judy] Yes.

And was it at that time that you suggested
she come and pick up Eden?

I told her to pick him up from school,

I didn't tell her to come pick up Eden
and take off for five months.

- I didn't take off.
- [Judy] Okay, but you told her

- to pick him up from school.
- Yes.

He knew where to find me,
I was at the same address,

I didn't leave anywhere,

he's known where we've lived
the entire time.

He could've come up and seen him,
we could've met somewhere, I'm...

I don't know, you did in fact remove him
the second time for six, for six months.

[Eve] I did, the second time, yes.

I did not purposefully,
to keep him away from Andrew.

We just, I mean we had
business to attend to,

and it ended up taking
a lot longer than it should've.

Now you see him... now you see him
all the time, is that right?

I actually, I live back at home again.
When this happened, because...

Just a second, so you live
back at home with your mother?

- [Andrew] Yes, I see him every day.
- Since when?

I've been living back at home for,
I think, roughly a month or so.

[Judy]
Where are you working?

- I work for a solar company.
- [Judy] For how long?

I went to jail for DUI last year,
I got out.

That's why I'm having to do
the case plan, because of my, my DUI.

That was in, like, August 1st
is when I started this job.

- [Judy] Okay, are you working?
- I am, yes.

- [Judy] What kind of work do you do?
- I'm a dental assistant.

Did you have a trial in the family court?

Not yet, we're still
awaiting adjudication.

- [Judy] Of full custody.
- Yes.

But the child is with you under
the auspices of Child Protective Services.

Yes, her trial is the 13th of February.

- [Judy] For the neglect case.
- Yes.

Is that correct?
You have a lawyer there.

- [Eve] Yes, I do.
- [Judy] Okay, good.

Your case against the respondent
for the damage to the car

three years ago is dismissed.

Likewise is your action against her
for attorney's fees, the custody.

Are you appearing in that custody case?

I'm almost complete with my case plan.

I will be there for that, yes, ma'am.

Good. So I suggest we not say anything
nasty about each other,

because there is always
that strong probability

that you're gonna have
to co- parent this child.

- It's never been a problem in the past.
- Good, very good.

- Case is dismissed. We're done.
- Thank you.

[bailif]
This court is adjourned.

I don't wanna be a part of his life.

I want him to have
a part of his child's life,

as I always have and have always
done my best to make sure that he has.

I've, honestly, I couldn't tell you.
I couldn't tell you,

I just think she was just...
maybe she was just

trying to get back at me.
Maybe, maybe not.

Unfortunately, you know,
circumstances arose that

I wasn't expecting.

I feel like sometimes,
he was, my... our son

was used in a way to hurt me.

Things happened with the sale of the house
and the closing of the house,

um, deals were dropped,

um, we were just trying to get it,
we were just trying to get rid of it

and it took longer than expected.

It's hard to see the fighting and the,
you know, just the separation of a family.

I was just worried, you know,
I was in mom mode,

and I was... I was worried.

Because I know what he's capable of,

I've been exposed to him
while he was using,

while he was exhibiting behaviors,

that would be damaging
and traumatizing to Eden.

It's my past. I mean, it's true,
I'm not the same person.

I just wanna be the best parent I can be.

I hope we can parent our son together.

[Judy] You know, Sarah, there were lots
of tentacles in that case.

- There were.
- [Judy] Yeah.

But if you tried to take
all those tentacles

that we really
don't have jurisdiction over,

- I think that they said that custody...
- Ongoing.

- ...is ongoing.
- Mm-hmm.

If you remove all those tentacles,

there was an accident three years ago,

and despite the fact
that she really knew where he was,

where he could be served,
because she regularly

brought the child over to him,

and he said that for a good part
of that time shared 50/50 custody.

She was perfectly comfortable

with Eden staying
with his paternal grandmother.

- Case was really about this car.
- Yeah.

And he had an accident, three years ago,

they lived together, they slept together,
they shared a child together,

and now that he notified
Child Protective Services

of what he saw when he brought
the child home,

and she physically lost custody
after an investigation,

that's the motivation for filing this now.

She waited too long.
He had her permission, drove the car.

As far as I'm concerned, the only person

that I ever feel sorry for
in these things...

- Is the kid.
- [Judy] ...is the kid.

[announcer]
Are you having a family dispute?