-(insects chittering)
-(birds chirping)
(crowd chatter)
(whispering):
Going to Marc Jacob.
-(laughing)
-Marc Jacobs.
-Marc Jacobs.
-Marc.
This is Marc. Marc.
It's Marc Jacobs.
-Marc Jacobs.
-Marc Jacobs.
-Marc Jacobs. -Marc-Marc...
-Marc Jacobs.
...Jacobs. Marc's my friend.
Marc Jacob.
("100%" by Sonic Youth playing)
I can never forget you
The way you rock the girls
They rule the world
and love you
A blast in the underworld
But all I know
is you got no money
But that's got nothing to do
with a good time
Hey.
(song ends)
JIMMY FALLON:
Please welcome Anna Wintour
and Marc Jacobs.
-(applause and cheering)
-(band playing)
Fashion, fa... fashion.
-Marc, you-you share the couch.
-Oh, yeah.
Yeah, you'll be sharing...
sharing a chair
-this evening. Yes.
-Okay.
Welcome. Welcome to the show.
It's really wonderful
when you see someone like Marc,
whom I've known
for so many years
and-and seen him struggle
in the early days
and become such a success and,
I think, such an inspiration
to so many young designers
all over the world.
I remember my first cover.
You put...
It was Michaela,
an Israeli model,
and you put her in a yellow
and white dress of mine.
It was back in the days
of Perry Ellis,
and I was on the subway
going to work,
and someone said to me,
"You've got a dress
on the cover of Vogue.
What are you doing
on the subway?"
-(laughter)
-JIMMY: They want you to take
-a horse and carriage? Yeah.
-I was like, "Well..."
(applause and laughter fade)
MARC:
I mean, for-for me,
there's just so, like,
so much fear in starting.
Like, again, it's like,
I guess, a blank page.
And it's just like,
I guess, for a writer, like,
"What do you write?"
And for a musician,
"What do you, you know, sing
or write in music?"
(talking indistinctly)
-MARC: All right, what have
you got? -ANNA: All right.
-So you're looking at the...
-Needle-punch?
...needle-punch first.
So we tried--
this is a Shetland yarn,
and this is cashmere.
-We tried...
-MARC: I love Shetland.
Can we get anything more in
the-- like, what gauge is this?
ANNA:
This is all 7 gauge.
MARC: Yeah,
maybe we should try a lower,
-like a 5 or a 3.
-Yeah, yeah.
Like, so it's more s-sweatery.
ANNA:
Yeah, sure.
More sw...
Yeah, so we can see
the stitch more
-and it's more...
-ANNA: Mm-hmm.
I was looking for something,
like, sheer,
but not polybit, not nylon,
nothing--
not really a synthetic.
More like a wool that was, like,
a fine gauge or a woolen nylon.
So something that looks
more like wool but transp--
Like, so maybe between
the size of the yarn, the gauge
and the, um, tension...
but some-somehow
-where we could get
a sheer feeling. -Right, right.
To, um...
To discuss...
...how nothing there is.
-Like... (laughs)
-SOFIA: The blank page helped.
The blank page...
-I feel for you.
-Yeah, it's...
No, it's just the way it is.
I-I mean, I do-- I have faith
that it will become something.
So like a good leather,
men's-men's leather belt.
-Like, not...
-(Anna speaks indistinctly)
-Not like a '90s Milanese belt.
-(laughs): Yeah. Okay.
-MARC: That's kind of good.
-ANNA: Nice.
I mean, if we could do it finer.
It's a little...
-I'd like it cleaner.
-Mm-hmm.
-Cleaner. Okay.
-MARC: Cleaner.
ANNA: Yes, so just maybe
too textured for you.
-And this is very...
-But, but...
ANNA:
But the hand feel is good.
These are from Enrico,
different weights.
So our objective was
to get a smaller stitch size
and to get more structure,
-ideally with more filler.
-JOSEPH: Yeah.
These are all 18 gauge
and they couldn't really add
much more filler.
MARC: With us,
like, we-we get to the place,
or I get to the place
where I'm sitting with everyone
and we're like, "Well,
we've got to do something,
we've got to make some decisions
about fabric."
And then there's just a lot
of different conversations
that go on through the process,
but I don't know
that-- I can't remember...
...a season or a show where we
were, like, from the beginning,
we knew what we wanted to do
and it was about
working towards achieving that.
ANNA:
Yeah.
(Anna chuckles quietly)
Okay.
Sure?
-Yeah.
-Okay.
("Smoke Gets In Your Eyes"
by The Platters playing)
MARC:
I think the reality
of, um...
putting together the collection
and, you know,
getting to the point
of the show is like... really
a series of ideas,
and some of them feel very,
very strong or interesting.
'Cause it's a, it is a process.
So it's like, you know,
for a few months,
like, all creative energy is
focused on doing this thing.
You know, there could be, um,
a movie night
with John and Rachel
that includes The Bitter Tears
of Petra Von Kant
and it's, like, the first time
I ever saw it
so it really visually
was so stimulating
and, like, the insanity of it.
There was so much-- it was
so loaded that it could--
like, of course it was
gonna be a part
of what we were working on.
I mean,
because it stimulated me.
This is the part
where we try to figure out
what the models will be wearing
on their legs.
-JOSEPH: Yeah. See, this
is just like... -(laughing)
So, there's either doing, like,
custom colors of a hosiery brand
that we found...
-ROMAN: Yeah. -...and then
we have to figure out
what degree of sheerness
or opaqueness we want
and then have the colors dyed
to our specifications.
Or there-there was a plan,
once upon a time,
to make them ourselves
with our knitwear factories,
which we really loved that idea,
but there's very boring
technical problems with that.
I mean, this was one of
the Alex Katz painting
that we were really into,
just how flat,
like, the black dresses were
on all these women.
-SOFIA: I love her.
-MARC: Yeah.
But this line, I just loved
the texture of the skin,
that it was very powdery
and flat and matte.
JOSEPH: So this is... this is
like mannequin leg, right?
This is our opaque,
much more opaque...
(Delilah giggling)
JOSEPH:
The...
(Joseph speaks indistinctly)
-MARC: Okay. Yeah.
-Right?
-SOFIA: It does look like
mannequin leg. -Yeah. -Yeah.
But is there a problem
with that one?
-JOSEPH: No.
-So you can dye that any color?
Yeah, it comes in white.
Yeah, so that's no problem
at all.
-The really opaque one.
-Yeah.
The real mannequin.
MARC:
Like, this is a toile
that Joseph made,
and it's, like, um,
-an idea, right?
-Yeah.
-But it will become a much more
sophisticated... -Right.
...interpretation of this idea.
You know, we're... continuing
to make clothes
and study clothes as the
fittings are happening upstairs
on the models and the castings
and the music and...
Like, so, it's just, like,
that's all happening
at the same time,
so, like, everything
is delivered...
It's, like, very last minute.
I look over my shoulder
at, like, other designers
and I think, like, "Well, the
reason their work is so strong
"and so good and...
is that they're so talented
"and they probably have it all
decided from the beginning
"and then it's about, like,
a really extraordinary,
"you know, um, execution
of a single thought.
"And if I could be like them,
this is the way
it would turn out, too."
(speaking French)
MARC: When I look at my heroes
in fashion,
like, if you look
at Saint Laurent
and, you know, if you read
the sort of history
of, like, that, like,
Ballet Russe collection,
which was so extraord--
like how it was, like,
in this fever of the night
that, like, you know, he draped
all these fabrics on the stands,
or-- I think it was that one
-that he did that for.
-SOFIA: Oh, wow.
MARC: I don't know,
I can't remember what,
but it was one of his,
like, legendary collections
that apparently...
You know, and it was just,
like, a night of sketching
and, like,
fabrics all over the...
And, it's like,
that's what I want.
Like, you know,
but it's just not our story.
SOFIA:
Yeah, it doesn't have, like...
("Cavern" by Liquid Liquid
playing)
(low chatter)
-Now, this, that cut
generally fit... -Yes.
The fun part is how the hell
do we fit this sleeve,
-this super wide sleeve...
-Okay.
'Cause, see, I don't want it
going into a narrow...
Ah, the top.
It can't be na--
It's got to be large,
the top of the sleeve head,
you know, the sleeve.
-Ah.
-So the body itself...
-Uh-huh, uh-huh.
-...has to be wide up here.
-Yeah, yeah.
-So we're gonna have to do
this very kind of wide arm part.
-Uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh.
-Because most of the sleeves,
-they hang like this, right?
-Yeah, I know, it's collapse.
-Exactly. Ah.
-But what we want
-is to see this width up there.
-Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
-So you just, from the side...
-Side.
-...you've got all this tipping
that way... -Mm-hmm.
-...and these tipping this way.
-Mm.
MARC: Interesting little
backstory about this.
-SOFIA: Yeah?
-This was a brocade we developed
once for a collection
a long time ago--
we never used it--
but it came from...
There was
an auction catalog that had
one of Elizabeth Taylor's suits
and it was done by Chanel for
Elizabeth Taylor in a brocade.
So we developed basically
a pattern inspired by that suit.
And then this season,
we were talking about,
like, having a gold brocade,
and we're like,
"Oh, well, let's look at
that pattern again,"
and we just blew it up.
We made it bigger
and then more like,
-with more relief.
-JOSEPH: Yeah.
And then the volume
of the fabric is a little bit
more exaggerated, so...
what goes around, comes around.
SOFIA: I like the whole
"all roads lead to Liz."
-All roads. I mean, always.
-(Sofia laughs)
Aren't you happy with me?
Happy?
Trouble is, I'm too happy.
MARC:
These are brooches from
-the Elizabeth Taylor jewelry
collection. -(Sofia laughs)
And I just felt very...
There was that quote
by Andy Warhol
when they asked him
what he'd want to come back as,
and he said,
"I want to come back
as a diamond
on Elizabeth Taylor's finger."
-I never heard... -And I just
thought, like, "Oh, wow," so...
But, I mean, it wasn't
because of that quote,
-but the quote came to mind
when I... -Yeah.
We were researching
and looking at jewelry,
'cause I like this idea
of the patch,
but, um, then I just thought
it needs to have
some kind of sense,
so I thought, like, right,
Elizabeth Taylor's jewelry.
SOFIA: I can't wait to see it
all come together.
-MARC: Me, too.
-(Sofia laughs)
(blow-dryer whirring)
MARC: We got very playful
in the fitting room one day
and we were just, like, stacking
wigs on top of wigs and,
-you know, like you do.
-(Sofia chuckling)
And, um, I sent the pictures
to Alastair,
and he was like,
"Oh, I love it."
So we were talking about
how serious that was.
Like, maybe would we do that,
would we not do that?
The pluses and minuses
of doing something theatrical
and how that's entertaining
or keeping it more real
and more about, like...
Anyway, so we went through
all of those aspects?
-Yeah. We did.
-Right?
And... we have not come
to a conclusion.
SOFIA: Are you leaning one way
or the other, or you're...
We're leaning towards
entertainment.
-Entertainment and joy.
-(chuckling)
Hello, Dolly
Well, hello, Dolly...
MARC: I went to the opening
night of Hello, Dolly!
That was my first movie
in a theater.
Back where you belong...
SOFIA: Why do all g*y men
love Barbra Streisand?
MARC:
I don't know. Like...
I love Barbra Streisand.
But I-I don't know what it is.
Wh... It's a really...
That's a really good question.
But I guess there's something,
I don't know if it's the nails
and the long finger
or if it's the whole, like...
I mean, I-I don't know.
But it's not only
Barbra Streisand.
-It's like, Barbra Streisand...
-SOFIA: Liza.
MARC:
...Liza Minnelli,
-Diana Ross...
-Yeah.
...is a big one for the gays,
I think.
SOFIA:
Yeah, glamour.
MARC: Yeah. But I think
there's just a theatricality.
When you look at those women,
they're so much
like a caricature of themselves,
you know, and they have that--
-Joan Crawford's another one.
-Oh, yeah.
You know, there's like that
caricature, camp.
-Camp of womanhood. Yeah.
-(Marc laughs)
Well, all the odds are
They're in my favor
Something's bound to begin
It's gotta happen
Happen sometime
Maybe this time
Maybe this time I'll
Win.
(song ends)
I don't know when the first time
I saw Cabaret was.
Uh...
But it was...
I'm-I'm pretty sure
it was Cabaret
that made me fall in love
with Bob Fosse
and then want to see
Damn Yankees,
and then want
to see Sweet Charity,
and then want to see,
like, everything that Bob Fosse
ever did.
SOFIA: I feel like
all his movies were great.
MARC:
Yeah. He's just a great...
-And All That Jazz.
-All That Jazz.
Great mind.
("On Broadway" by George Benson
playing)
They say the neon lights
are bright on Broadway
They say there's always magic
in the air...
MARC: I think somewhere
in another life
I really want to be, um,
a theater director,
or something like that.
I don't really,
but I think this...
this has a very,
like, doing the fashion thing
is just very linked,
it's the same kind of process:
the casting, the music, the set,
the costumes.
Like, only in fashion,
you get to do all of it.
(vocalizing in song)
The set design was inspired by
this Jeremiah Goodman painting
of Diana Vreeland's apartment,
Garden in Hell.
On Broadway
Looking at them
just gives me the blues.
("Funky Boss" by Beastie Boys
playing)
MARC:
I loved, um...
you know, I loved
back-to-school clothes.
SOFIA: How young were you
when you were starting to think
about your back-to-school look?
MARC:
I-I have...
I have it in my mind, like,
eight or nine, but, um...
I think I was very influenced
by teenagers I saw at the time
who, I think one of them
was a babysitter,
and, um, she--
the babysitter and her friends,
you know, were probably 18, 19,
and they were wearing,
like, flared jeans
and they had, like, you know,
they had, like, their...
teenage hippie vibes or whatever
was going on. (laughs)
Like, early '70s.
And I just looked at them, and
I thought they looked so cool
that I wanted to look like them.
You know, like, at my young age.
("The Candy Man" by Cibo Matto
playing)
(vocalizing)
SOFIA: Did you ever think
as a kid that you would have
your salon at Bergdorf Goodman?
(Marc laughs)
MARC: No. I mean, it is funny,
the Bergdorf Goodman thing,
because I remember going there
with my grandmother.
And my grandmother was,
like, really fashiony.
She really loved clothes.
She was of a generation
where there was,
like, a great,
like, respect for clothes
and also what was appropriate
for certain things.
So she had subscribed
to that notion that gloves,
like, leather gloves,
were either black or white.
Like, you just didn't wear
colored leather gloves.
(laughs): Like, I don't know
where that came from.
-You know, so...
-(doorbell ringing)
SOFIA: Is that where
your sophistication,
your taste, comes from?
-And, like, you know about
stuff. -I think it came...
-Appreciation definitely
came from... -(door opens)
I used to go shopping with her,
and I used to, I just loved it
when she'd have the beauty
parlor appointment on Friday,
and then she'd go to Bergdorf's
which was down the block
from the salon
that she went to, and...
You know, and I think,
I think I saw...
or-or saw, like, beautiful
or more luxurious clothes,
you know, with her.
And she was also very...
like, she didn't have
a lot to do, so,
like, during the week,
her outings to different places
were very, like,
that was what her-- she did.
So, like, Bonwit Tellers
was on a certain day,
and Saks Fifth Avenue
was on a certain day,
and Bergdorf was the day
of her salon, so she would buy
certain things from certain
places. Like, she's be like...
-SOFIA: She had a schedule of...
-(chuckles)
She... Yeah. She'd, like, plan
her day around that, so, like,
then you'd know what restaurant
she'd eat at for lunch,
or where she'd... Like,
if she was at Lord & Taylor,
she'd go to the Bird Cage,
and she'd have chicken salad.
Like, everything was very set.
("Heart of Glass" by Blondie
playing)
-SOFIA: Hi.
-Morning.
Good morning.
(continues indistinctly)
Once I had a love,
and it was a gas...
Maybe back there.
Let's do Marc's office.
Had a heart of glass
Seemed like the real thing,
only to find
Mucho mistrust,
love's gone behind
In between
What I find is pleasing,
and I'm feeling fine
Love is so confusing,
there's no peace of mind
If I fear I'm losing you,
it's just no good
You teasing like you do.
-(Sofia chuckling)
-ROMAN: That's good.
Go to the other side.
Sort of come around
-and we can see you better.
-SOFIA: My cameo.
Yeah.
-SOFIA: No? -ROMAN: It's
upside down, but it's okay.
SOFIA:
But-but the words are...
Okay, then that's
more important.
(Roman and Sofia chuckling)
One of my favorite outfits is,
it was Halloween
and I didn't have a costume
and Marc brought, got...
-And Andrew.
-Yeah, and Andrew.
We were all having Halloween
and you brought me, um,
-a boy's cop uniform.
-Police... Yeah.
But it fit me. It was so chic.
-Like, it fit me perfectly.
-Yeah.
I was like, of course, that was
one of my favorite Marc outfits.
ROMAN: How-- I'm gonna ask
two questions.
How long have you guys
known each other?
When do you remember
first meeting Sofia?
-SOFIA: Uh, at, um...
-MARC: Perry Ellis.
SOFIA:
At Perry Ellis.
-Yeah.
-Like, it was '93?
-It was...
-Or '92?
-It was grunge.
-It was grunge,
-and we were in New York.
-Yeah.
And I asked Mom to take me
to see your collection.
But I don't... I-I must've
seen it in a magazine.
Was it in Vogue or something?
I-I don't know
how I knew about it
'cause there was
no Internet then.
I don't know.
Well, 'cause it's you.
-I know. -You know about things.
That's how.
SOFIA:
I was excited. I was, like,
-early 20s.
-New York was a small place.
Sofia and Spike. This is Spike
Jonze,
video director extraordinaire,
Dirt magazine editor.
And Sofia Coppola, photographer,
fashion model,
they came up to us and said,
"We want to do a fashion show,"
and we were like,
"Great. Whatever."
And then six months later,
-they were really serious
about it. -Yeah.
And then we all four got
our heads together,
and the rest is history.
INTERVIEWER: You guys kind of
came up with the idea
of, like, how the fashion show
is gonna look
and where it was gonna be.
How'd you come up
with that idea?
SOFIA: Well, because
it's, uh, Fashion Week,
we wanted to do it in New York
in the middle of the whole
traditional Fashion Week.
And, um, our friend Marc Jacobs
just had a show down the street
so we figured
while everyone leaves that,
they could come check this out.
I just thought it'd be fun
to do a fashion show,
um, but I-I never designed
a line of clothes, so
we were just talking about
doing a outlaw fashion show
to liven things up this week.
(punk music playing)
KIM: You know,
it's sort of like your dream
is always to wake up
in the morning and be able
to reach in your closet,
half asleep,
and just put on something
that's gonna, like, fit
and look fabulous and you don't
have to think about it.
MARC: When you think Milk,
right, or X-girl
and you think about, like,
the perfect baby tee,
-or whatever we called it
then... -Yeah.
...you know that
little perfectly, like...
If you, if you just
imagine, like,
what somebody else
would be like,
"What, what are they making
such a big deal about,
-like, a T-shirt?"
-SOFIA: Yeah.
MARC:
But I remember, like,
Kim Gordon and Daisy...
and they'd be like, you know,
they-they were so precise...
-Yeah. -...about how
that miniskirt had to fit.
-
-MAN: Yeah, baby.
RITA ACKERMANN:
And the world
currency markets
will never lose faith
in the deutsche mark,
the dollar...
I'm exhausted.
I will never catch up.
CHLO:
So what's up with Salinas?
-Jackie Joyner-Kersee.
-(blows raspberries)
-Elizabeth Bishop.
-(blows raspberries)
Brigitte Bardot.
When you look back at
a lot of those images now--
like when I look at, like,
Chlo Sevigny and stuff--
it's like a lot of those images
really kind of hold up
-in a way because...
-Yeah.
They... it was a kind of
iconic moment.
WOMAN:
Would you rather sell beer
or drink beer or make beer?
I'd rather sell the beer.
-WOMAN: Hello. How are you?
-CHLO: Hi.
CHLO:
I'm okay.
-Who is this? -Do you have
a Guy Lyonais that checked in?
WOMAN:
Can you spell the last name?
CHLO:
L-Y-O-N-A-I-S.
WOMAN:
Excuse me, miss.
Do you know a Guy Lyonais?
Some of the dresses looked
a little stewardess, 1973,
serving your drink.
MAN: Stewardess?
I thought they were, like,
factory worker, 1973.
Factory worker, stewardess,
-working-class woman...
-Yeah.
...but with the svelte body.
It's just working.
WOMAN: There's Jules Truman.
Jules Truman.
-I got it.
-Because...
he has to get the show started,
and I can't deal with it
anymore.
(indistinct chatter)
("Dirty Boots" by Sonic Youth
playing)
This is crazy. This is really...
-Do you know Guy Lyonais?
-Who?
-Guy Lyonais.
-No.
KIM GORDON: This is one of
my favorite dresses
that I ever wore onstage.
It's a Marc Jacobs dress,
and you can't tell
from this picture
but it's got all these sequins
on it and...
it was almost like being
a disco ball.
MARC: Way back, I met this guy
named Nick Egan.
Nick Egan was very close
to Malcolm McLaren
and, um, Vivienne Westwood
and-- well,
particularly Malcolm McLaren--
but fast-forward many years
and it's the grunge collection
at Perry Ellis,
and, um, Nick Egan calls me.
And I hadn't seen or heard
from him in a long time,
and it was like,
"Marc, it's Nick."
And I was, like,
so happy to hear from him.
And he's like,
"Listen, I'm directing, um,
a video for Sonic Youth."
And I was like, "Oh, my God,
that's so amazing."
I was like, "I love them.
They're great."
And he's like,
"Well, I had this idea
which I presented to them
and they were really into it."
He was like,
"Could we get together
and would you be willing
to meet Kim and Thurston?"
I, like... froze.
I was like, "I-I don't know
how I can meet Kim."
Like, it was
so intimidating somehow.
-SOFIA: Really? Why?
-Yeah, I felt...
I-I've always been--
I know it doesn't
come across that way--
but I'm-I'm pretty
uncomfortable socially,
and I am very intimidated
by people I look up to.
You know, it's just, like...
And-and I, I thought
they were just so cool.
Like, there was, like,
"How am I gonna...
"You know, how am I gonna
bring my little, like,
"designer chops to the table
with all that coolness
of Kim Gordon?"
("Sugar Kane" by Sonic Youth
playing)
MARC:
I-I sort of felt like
it was in a bit of a weird
situation, 'cause I felt like
I was, like, doing
that grunge collection,
that it was looked down on
by, like, Courtney and Kurt
and people like...
-Oh, as a poser?
Or commercializing? -Right.
So, so, I kind of felt like,
"I would love to do this,
but I don't want to be
the butt of your joke."
Oh, right.
MARC:
I mean, it's really interesting,
like, when you look at, like...
There were so many negative
reviews and, like...
-SOFIA: Really?
-Oh, yeah. And then,
of course, the evidence
of how important it was
is still everywhere you look.
It was all... across all genres.
-It was like you had music...
-Yeah.
...fashion, art and photography.
So... you know,
there's all of those things
were just undergoing
this change.
(music stops)
-MAN: Nice to meet you, Marc.
-MARC: What's your name?
-I'm Ian.
-Ian. Hi, Ian.
-You wrote your question down?
-I did.
-I wrote my question down.
-(chuckles): Wow.
(laughter)
Um, so I have...
I kind of have two questions.
-Okay.
-Um, one of them is--
I'm at Parsons right now--
um, so I was wondering
how art school
kind of informed your career
and how you feel like
that was valuable to you.
EMCEE: And next,
a trio of fabulous sweaters
by Marc Jacobs.
Hand-knit, of course,
supersized shapes
over jersey tops
and flannel bottoms.
MARC:
I loved my school years.
I mean, I worked
really, really hard.
EMCEE: Fabulous patterns,
fabulous color.
And that extraordinary trio
has earned Marc Jacobs the
Perry Ellis Gold Thimble Award.
MARC:
Some of the teachers at Parsons
would tease me and say
that I was very jaded,
but I grew up in the city
and I didn't feel
like I was jaded.
I just felt like I was
experiencing as much as I could,
in and out of school.
And so, um, sometimes school
would be frustrating to me
because I would think,
this isn't helping
train for real life.
Like, real life is happening
outside of school.
(applause)
EMCEE:
Don't go away, Marc.
Because Marc Jacobs
was also voted
the Student Designer
of the Year award.
(applause)
MARC:
All the students, um,
were broken into groups
by designers.
So you'd have different
designers come into the school
and they'd be given, like, ten
or-or whatever, eight students,
and I was in
the Perry Ellis group.
I remember I showed him
my sketches
and he was very impressed.
And he had-- I'd met him before.
I met him when I was 16
at Charivari.
When Charivari opened, he was
there with Jed and Patricia,
who were his two assistants
who both went to Parsons.
And it was he who told me
if I was serious
about being a designer,
I should go to Parsons
like his two assistants.
And so I had these illustrations
that were two or three figures
on the page.
So the one he chose,
he was like, "Well, you can..."
He's like,
"I love any one of these.
Which one do you want to do?"
And I was like,
"Well, I have to do all three.
It doesn't make sense
just to do one."
And he was like, "I don't know
how you're going to finish one,
"let alone three, but if
that's what you want to do,
go for it, you know."
So I graphed out
these sweater designs.
They were, like,
these geometric designs,
and I graphed them out
on graph paper
'cause I kind of understood the
principles of, like, knitting
after watching my grandmother.
She had taught me
how to do knit...
You know, she taught me
how to knit
and to do needlepoint,
and-and she actually knit
the samples.
SOFIA: And the ones
that you had at Charivari,
-were those she actually made?
-So...
so, so, I showed those...
I mean, I made all the clothes
that went with the sweaters,
like, the skirts and the pants
and the, the layering pieces,
and I showed them,
and then Barbara Weiser,
who was from Charivari,
who I'd become
very friendly with,
she saw my work in that show
and she said, "I would love
to produce these sweaters."
MARC: And then in order
to make fun of the polka dots
and to make them
even less serious,
and what I think is...
is and always will be
a wonderful image,
is the smiley face of the '70s
because people can't help
but smile
and sort of laugh
when they see it.
It's, it's, uh, you know,
it's really a pop icon
and it's something that'll be
around for a long time.
And then with the sweaters,
we did opera length... mittens.
These are mittens that are knit
past the elbow, and again,
I put little smiley faces
on the palms of the,
of the, uh, mitten.
So that was my first
commercial venture,
and the label said, "Marc Jacobs
for Marc and Barbara."
("Hey! DJ" by The World's
Famous Supreme Team playing)
Hit it
Huh
We would like to dedicate
this record
To all the DJs
in the entire world...
INTERVIEWER: I know you and Marc
really go way back.
What is it about
that camaraderie?
I mean, why is it so important
to have that support
from your peers?
Well, thank God there's Marc.
-I mean, you know...
-Yeah.
It-It's like...
I-I think that, um,
it just makes
New York much more exciting.
ANNA SUI:
One night, it must've been 1981,
I saw him at Danceteria
on the dance floor.
After that, I became, like,
very aware of Marc
and, like, his style,
and then all of a sudden
he was the news
with his Sketchbook collection.
Hey, DJ, just play that song,
keep me dancing all night
Thanks, girls, now thank DJs,
MCs, cable TV
And radio station
personalities
(fading): For the new tunes
we hear today...
(low, indistinct talking)
SOFIA: The grunge collection
wasn't the first thing
you did with Perry Ellis,
was it?
MARC:
No, it was the last.
-Oh, yeah. Did you get fired?
-(laughs)
-Did you get fired?
-No, that...
-It's a misconception...
-Oh.
-...but I really like,
I like it. -Yeah.
You know, I like that, like,
-"Oh, I did this collection...
-So scandalous.
"...and I got fired for it
and it was, like, you know,
and I was so young, and
I was fired," and duh, duh...
But it isn't really the truth.
-But I mean, it's-it's the story
I like to go with. -Right.
But why was the collection,
like, scandalous?
It just seemed like that's what
people were... I don't know.
-I was excited that it was...
-I guess people were
very easily...
easily scandalized.
-I mean, why...
-You're rocking the boat.
You know, I don't know
why Saint Laurent's, like,
Forties collection
was so scandalous either.
SOFIA: Yeah, it was called
The Scandal Collection.
I don't get that.
Oh, because it was
too close to the w*r.
MARC: Yeah, but when you look
at those clothes,
does it really look
like wartime clo--
It didn't-- like, I-I get it.
It's, it was a really
great look,
and I think that moment
in the '70s where they embraced
the '30s and '40s,
-like...
-That's my favorite, too.
MARC:
...the chicest thing.
("A Whiter Shade of Pale"
by Ronnie Aldrich playing)
MARC:
Interior-wise,
clothing-wise, like,
I just feel like
so much stylization,
like, through the '70s lens,
-that stuff just looks
incredible. -SOFIA: I know.
It's the best.
MARC: I guess, I guess
it's like everything.
It's all... relative, right?
So, like,
what was happening in fashion
and, like, how women looked,
how they were photographed,
what kind of clothes they wore,
you know, like models,
and then all of a sudden
there was this shift
with Corinne Day
and Juergen Teller, David Sims,
and it was all about, like,
you know, Kate Moss
in a pair of panties
with, like, some fairy lights,
you know, like...
I think women couldn't
become that.
Like, they couldn't take that
picture to their hairdresser
and say, like,
"I want to look like this."
-Oh, right.
-Do you know what I mean?
It was like an unachievable...
beauty.
And then, you know,
look at Courtney.
Like, you know, here was
this really strong woman,
and, like, she... her hair
was fried and bleached,
and, like, her lipstick
was all over her face,
and she was wearing a torn dress
that was about five sizes
too small.
I think that was part
of the scandal, was that
it was just, like, so shocking.
The thing that scares people the
most is, like, anything natural.
You know,
because they can't aff--
-It's just hard to affect,
right? -Oh, right, right.
SOFIA:
Tell me about Cindy Sherman.
MARC:
She's great.
Cindy's great and so inspiring.
This idea of, like,
inventing yourself
and, um, make...
creating this character,
this cinematic character, and,
like, she made that her art
and then did it
so, so perfectly.
It was the Film Stills that
were the first body of work
of Cindy's that I knew of
and that I fell in love with.
And I think
it's almost so clich
to be a designer and say, like,
"Oh, Cindy Sherman's
Film Stills,"
'cause, it's, like,
it's a go-to.
You know, it's like saying
Audrey Hepburn
in Breakfast at Tiffany's.
It's like, Cindy Sherman
in Film Stills.
Let's open this up
and just sew it on
-a little more softly.
-ANNA: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
-Uh, instead a little nailed
down here, right? -Right, right.
Just want to make sure
it stays there, okay?
So it's just, like, all
the styles that are happening.
So everyone knows
what's going on.
SOFIA:
Oh, cool.
-This is what they're working on
now? -JOSEPH: Yeah.
So, these are, like,
the sequin dresses.
I, you know,
the different, like...
So I've made the first one,
the second one. Like, we want...
SOFIA: Are those gonna get
sequins added to them?
No. These are just
to check and shape by it.
So is it just toile
in that kind of fabric?
Yes, yeah, exactly.
I think the future of fashion,
the future of the world is about
not living by rules
that were established
30 years ago
but by doing
what's right for you
and respecting the things
around you.
And I-I don't mean to get,
like, too philosophical,
but I think that I do what I do
and somebody down the block
does what they do,
and we can all do our own thing,
and girls can wear
what they want
and when they want
and how they want.
I'm hoping, in the future,
that people stop labeling things
like '60s or '70s
or this or that,
because all
of these things exist,
and they, to me,
they're all classics, you know?
And I think
we use natural fabrics
and we make, I make the clothes
that I like at this moment.
I show things in a certain way
to project a spirit,
but I don't expect people
to copy
what I've done on the runway.
I think that if you like a shirt
you see on the runway,
then you buy a shirt-- you don't
need to buy the whole thing.
And if you like the outfit,
you should make it work for you.
You know what I mean?
Not everyone is gonna look good
in a long skirt or a short skirt
or a sheer skirt.
So you choose
what's right for you.
You should never listen
to a designer,
especially a man designer.
I mean, I can't wear
these clothes.
It doesn't matter.
You know?
It's just a fantasy for me.
("Little People (Black City)"
by Matthew Dear playing)
SOFIA: When did you start
doing Louis Vuitton?
MARC:
1997.
Oh.
And Perry Ellis was over
in 1993. Right?
And then there was a year off,
which was '94...
So '95 to '97,
I was doing collections
with Robert over there.
SOFIA:
Oh. And then,
they didn't have clothes
at Vuitton before...
-You had to...
-No, they never had anything.
Just bags and luggage.
SOFIA: Was it hard
to make that different
than what you were doing
at Marc? Or, like,
-did you get a different
frame of mind? -Yes.
-Or was it really...
-Yes and no.
It-it seemed... it seemed...
like, really impossible
to make it different,
but then,
I think there was one day
where I came to this realization
that as soon as
I get on the plane
and go to Paris,
it's automatically different.
Like, I could,
I could say, like,
I love a black T-shirt
in New York,
and I know that what that
black T-shirt would look like
and what fabric it would be in.
But if I say I love a black
T-shirt, once I go to Paris,
I know that it would be,
like, super finished,
it would be this,
it would be that.
It would be a different
black T-shirt, so
I did, I did come
to that realization
that, like, I could love
the same thing
but in two places
it will be two different things.
("Sept heures du matin"
by Jacqueline Taeb playing)
(song continues with lyrics
in French)
(scatting)
WOMAN: I really think about
your time at Louis Vuitton
and a lot of
those collaborations,
like, with Pharrell,
for example,
and I feel like
those are people that
are maybe not necessarily
thought of within the context
of a luxury brand like that.
So, did those collaborations
feel risky at the time,
or how was it experiencing
those with them
and bringing them into something
like that?
Hmm. Um...
I... honestly didn't...
This is... I didn't really
overthink, think them.
I thought it was great
that Pharrell
was interested
in making sunglasses,
and I was like,
"Yeah, come on, let's do it."
Like, I really didn't
overthink it.
I have gone from a place
at Louis Vuitton
in the beginning
where I was trying to be,
you know, a good soldier
and please everybody,
and then I just kind of
got fed up and it was like,
"You know what?
That's not what I'm here for.
I'm here to... to be creative."
So I wanted to work
with Stephen Sprouse.
I wanted to work
with Pharrell.
I wanted to work with Nigo.
Whatever it was, I just said,
"We're going to do it."
What's really interesting
is that now
some of those people
who were so resistant
now are saying, you know,
how great certain things were,
and it's just like,
when, you know,
and I roll my eyes in my head,
and I just think,
like, "Ugh, they were all
arguing against this,
and now they all think
it's, like, the greatest thing."
But whatever, that's sometimes
the way life is.
Under the tutelage of Marc,
I mean, you know,
he-he's an amazing guy.
He's been so gracious
and so generous
and-and with-with, uh, his
intelligence and his direction.
The greatest taste,
greatest designer unto yourself,
greatest taste
and people that you have
and would like
to collaborate with,
I mean, just like GOAT,
GOAT, GOAT level.
-GOAT level.
-(Marc scoffs)
-Thanks. -Like-like, people know
who Murakami is.
He has a really incredible,
you know, portfolio.
Man, when you gave him
that platform
to do what you guys
did together,
it was like a magnet
for so many of us who were
watching the brand, like...
we're like, "Okay,
Vuitton is a different place."
("Kiss and Tell" by Bryan Ferry
playing)
MARC: For me, collaborating with
artists of different types--
musicians, contemporary artists,
um, actors--
we all share that passion,
which is the idea of creating
something, changing something.
And that's very exciting.
Looks like, uh,
the kind of new era
because the art become to
the exactly the entertainment.
Like, you know, the first time
people mention for the
correlation with fashion
and art,
but maybe in the near future,
they see the, you know,
the kind of,
uh, new entertainment.
("Veridis Quo" by Daft Punk
playing)
Oh, I thought the show
was beautiful and exciting,
and I loved the Richard Prince
naughty nurses.
There was some really great, uh,
French punks in the art world.
You know, Duchamp was, like,
the ultimate punk rock artist,
and that was part of
what I thought about
when I came here.
This is like so much
of French culture.
It's, like, in order to, like,
in order to change something
and in order to make it cool,
like, you have to deface it.
Like, you have to show it
no respect.
You know, like, and so,
so that thinking
kind of brought me
to the idea of graffiti or
defacing this, like, you know,
"You can't touch
the monogrammed print.
It's sacred," and duh, duh, duh.
I was like, "Yeah, we should
just write all over it."
SOFIA:
Were they like, "No, you can't"?
Yeah, they said,
"No, you can't." (laughs)
And then how did you
push it through?
Well, then they said, like,
"Well, you can do it, but
we're not going to produce it."
And then it kind of blew up,
and then, like,
everybody wanted it,
and, like, people were calling
and saying, "When can I get it?"
And the stores were take...
There were, like, waiting lists
for these bags that they weren't
planning on producing.
And, um, and then
all the counterfeiters came out
with them, and so, like,
they were appearing everywhere
whether they wanted to or not.
("Love to Love You Baby"
by Tom Tom Club playing)
I...
GRACE CODDINGTON:
I-I think along the same way
as-as he does.
I mean, he always has
a romance to his clothes
and things that I've always...
And I'm kind of romantic,
too, so...
So I-I go towards that, um...
So I think, uh,
I want to say it was
love at first sight,
-but...
-(Marc laughs)
I love to love you, baby...
GRACE: And I've seen just about
every Marc show
since he began, I guess.
I'm a huge fan, and I-I'm a
huge fan for a very good reason
in that I think, you know,
he's quite remarkable.
I-I don't know,
somehow he always hits it
on the head for me.
SOFIA: I like
your ladylike version, too.
MARC: There's a lot of
ladylike stuff.
Having dressed Winona
for her trial.
(chuckles): Having dressed
Lil' Kim for her trial.
You know, and they...
and then it's like,
as soon as they need
to put on this kind of
image of propriety--
-the Winona ones are close
to classics. -(Sofia laughs)
I think I'm gonna always
look at it as a costume
-because it-it just feels like
it belongs... -Yeah.
...to somebody
who's got maturity
-that I don't, or that...
-That's so true.
...you know, that belongs
to another time.
-"Go to Marc." (chuckles)
-Yeah.
"He'll dress you
for your trial."
MAN: Courtney Love,
is it true that, in 1993,
did you offer Eldon Hoke $50,000
to m*rder your husband
Kurt Cobain?
Oh, God, Richard Lee.
You suck so bad.
("Sugar Water" by Cibo Matto
playing)
The velocity of time
Turns her voice into
Sugar water
(vocalizing)
(speaking French)
-(laughing): Wow.
-(others exclaiming)
Look at that.
That is so insane.
That is sick in the head.
(vocalizing in song)
MARC:
This is so nuts.
The buildings are changing
into coconut trees
Little by little.
(song fades)
MARC: In talking about what
we were making with clothes,
let's see it blown up, you know,
Joseph was like, "Let's just
see it blown up really big
"and see how we feel about it.
Or let's see it really flat,
you know."
And either one of those things
would bring the approach
to making the bags in line
with the approach
to making the clothes.
There's a leather
mock-up that...
I mean, they did a leather
prototype from this mock-up.
-Yeah.
-It was, uh... And then...
-WOMAN: It went to the factory.
-SOFIA: Oh.
WOMAN:
Yeah. To get...
-JOSEPH: Made?
-Made. -Yeah.
SOFIA: And when does that stuff
all show up?
When's that show up? Uh...
-Two days before the show.
-WOMAN: Yeah.
SOFIA:
Is it always nerve-racking?
-WOMAN: Yes.
-(laughter)
Always.
("Reminiscences" by Nigel Hess
playing)
(music ends)
It needs to be like dead Barbie.
(chuckles)
Not pink enough.
JIN:
Okay, hers is okay.
MARC:
Um, what length are you...
Can you cut the girls nails,
or no?
JIN: Just reg...
So their-their length.
-Short. Short, yeah.
-MAN: Yeah, short.
MARC:
Sh-Short, but...
Short like boyish short
or girlish short?
-Like...?
-JIN: Round short.
-MARC: Round short like that.
Okay. -JIN: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
-Not, not too square.
-MARC: No.
-No, it's too bright.
-JIN: No?
It should be a,
it should be that but pink.
Oh, hello, Mr. Nimmo.
NIMMO: Um, what do you actually
sell here?
VIVIANNE:
Um, clothes.
These, uh, cardigans you can
see through, sort of woollies.
VIVIENNE: Mm. These restrict
your arm movement somewhat.
So you're really caught
right down there in bondage.
Yes, but it's...
But to move in that
has a lot of style and flair,
because as you move,
you can sort of see through
some of the...
-No, when you wear this...
-Yes.
...you can see
sort of, you know,
a body here with bits
of lacy stuff in between...
MARC:
So I just became
completely, like, obsessed
with Vivienne Westwood.
I'd known of her and Malcolm
as being the designers of
Sex and Seditionaries
and, you know, kind of defining
what punk looked like in London.
I was just fascinated by her
and by what she did.
Just thought it was, like,
style with substance.
It felt like there was a thought
process behind the style,
as opposed to just
arbitrarily making some,
you know, weird clothing.
MARC:
And then I got to meet her and
we bonded over, actually,
Yves Saint Laurent.
It was the weirdest thing.
So, she was having a show
at Bergdorf Goodman...
and they invited me,
she and Bergdorf invited me
to join this dinner
after her show at Bergdorf.
And I was seated
next to Vivienne at the table.
And Vivienne, you know,
had a reputation for not...
If she didn't like you,
she made n--
Like, she had no problem saying,
like, "I'm not int--"
Like, she didn't make
polite conversation,
and she was not, like,
she didn't suffer fools.
SOFIA: Were you nervous
to sit next to her?
A little bit,
a little bit. Yeah.
I was, I was intimidated
and a little nervous.
But we both drank a lot
of red wine at this dinner,
and everybody-- eventually,
we were the last two people
at the table.
And then we got into
this conversation about
a mutual love
of Yves Saint Laurent.
I don't know how
this happened, but...
And she, I remember she said,
like, "Don't tell anybody."
Like, like, it was a secret.
Like, she knew
about Saint Laurent
and I knew about Saint Laurent,
but don't let
the others know about him,
you know, like...
It was a very... it was
a very sweet and strange thing.
Like, they've not discovered the
genius of this man, but we know.
(low conversations)
MARC:
So, this elastic
is only this high.
It's like three... quarter
of an inch, or something.
I just... are we gonna want this
to feel more flat?
We're getting a, um, the elastic
-in the right size.
-Oh, a deeper elastic?
-Okay.
-Before the show's happening.
But, but the point,
the rib would be...
MARC: I remember one of
the discussions was, like,
this fabric that we've used
before that was very rounded,
it was, like, a '60s fabric
that's bonded to itself
and there's one Italian mill
that made it back in the '60s.
And I used it for us
and at Vuitton,
but it's very round.
It doesn't collapse.
So when Joseph said, like,
"Maybe me a pair of shorts,"
it was, like,
it wasn't so much that I was
crazy about the idea of shorts.
I just like the idea
of thinking about something
I wouldn't typically use
that fabric for.
We just laid these fabrics out
to decid-- pick colors
-for the sweaters to see what...
-SOFIA: Oh.
sweater top would go
with what leather short.
So, you can see over...
SOFIA: Are the big...
are the big shorts leather?
They are, yeah.
They're a bonded leather.
And so we just put a little
swatch next to all the colors
so we can kind of predict
what, um... the look will be.
MARC: We wanted to make them,
like, very naively.
Like, so, we thought, like,
"Oh, it should look like
you cut it out of fabric
and you sewed it together
yourself."
And so it had
no sophistication whatsoever.
I mean, not true sophistication.
We made this pair of shorts
with that kind of body,
and we were like,
"That looks really good.
We really like it."
Then we liked the idea of it
with sexy shoes
from the Trompe L'Oeil
collection,
and that was kind of
how it started
when we... when we both,
Jospeh and I,
had this immediate reaction
to, like, Delilah
in this red sweater
with these, like, weird shorts
and then a pair
of high heel shoes.
And we're like, "Yeah, that
looks like what we want to do."
(crowd chatter)
You know, we thought
we would see one body...
-ANNA: Right, right.
-...neoprene
and one body double knit,
and if we liked the double knit,
-that's what we would do
the group. -Right.
-You see? So we were doing it
originally... -Right, right.
...to see which one
we preferred.
It's tricky, 'cause I need
to order the panels.
-Well...
-For... So...
But if it's double knit,
you wouldn't be ordering
-a panel, would you?
-Exactly.
Right now, I'm planning for it
to be double knit.
But if you want to...
But only one body you're
planning to be double knit.
-WOMAN: Correct.
-ANNA: This style...
Right, the zip-up hoodie
is gonna be bonded.
Right. And what we were thinking
was we would choose...
There would be one thing
in the end.
-...and then you would do...
-Do one thing.
-Got it.
-So that, for us, is a test.
-I see.
-Yeah.
I remember, um, I had
a Groucho Marx T-shirt
that I was particularly proud of
that I wore with suspenders,
and it was pre-Mork & Mindy,
(laughing): but it was very
that kind of look.
But, um, yeah,
I had a, like, this--
I don't know what in the world
or where it came from,
but I was, like, really enamored
with this, like,
Groucho Marx T-shirt.
But I was pretty meticulous
when it came to clothes.
Like, I folded everything
perfectly.
I mean,
I folded T-shirts perfectly
and, like, all that stuff,
so I always made sure
it was on a good hanger
so the shoulders
didn't stretch...
Like, I... I had such
a relationship with clothing.
My first outfit that I ever made
was a blue,
like, a baby blue gas station
attendant jumpsuit.
And that was one of the things
that I thought,
like, I saw... I saw,
I mean, I must've seen,
'cause I don't know how
I would've gotten in my head,
like, "That's a cool thing
to wear,"
but there must've been
some grown-up kid
wearing, like...
and I feel like it had, like,
patches all over it.
Like, you know,
like a,
like a gas station attendant.
Anyway, I had it in my head
that that was, like,
the cool thing and that
the only way I was gonna get one
is if I learned how to make it.
So I had, like, a home ec class
where we learned to sew,
and that was the first thing
I-I sewed.
-JOSEPH: How's it going,
over here? It's okay? -Good.
-Yeah, yeah.
-Cloth big enough, Kenny?
-I don't know. (laughing)
-Is it big enough?
Are you gonna make it
work out, Kenny?
Yeah, of course you will.
ANNA:
Yeah, I can find some swatches.
MARC:
Yeah, I just want to see,
-like, 14 or 18.
-Right, right, right.
If it's feasible with
the timing, I'm concerned.
'Cause it takes multiple steps,
you know, like,
the-the shaping and the...
So we can try, but...
They can put a man on the moon.
LA LA ANTHONY: So, Paris,
let me start with you.
I just feel so excited
to be here
with the legend Marc Jacobs.
-I just did his campaign,
and it was so incredible. -Wow.
And I'm just loving the dress
that he made for me tonight.
The dress is
absolutely stunning.
Marc, tell us about this dress.
Well, this dress, I'd say...
You know, like,
I believe in collaborat--
-Do you want me to hold this?
-Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, okay. So, you know, um,
collaboration of a sort.
So it was like a thing...
First of all,
to dress Paris Hilton
is like how the f*ck do you--
Oh, sorry--
how do you do that, right?
So I thought, like, "Well,
maybe it would be interesting
"and exciting to see her
in a black gown, you know?
'Cause it's not typical
for Paris."
So we approached her
with the idea,
and then we added the idea
of leather,
and she was all game
and everything.
And then she had some comments,
like, "I need a little sparkle,"
-and, "Could you make
this fabric here?" -Right.
And we worked together
and made it happen,
and she looks fantastic.
SOFIA:
Do you ever feel like, um,
you're the successful designer
that as a ki--
your kid self would be...
proud of?
Or, like, that... do you ever
feel like, "Oh, wow,
I'm living the life that..."
the fantasy life of...
of your kid self?
MARC:
I think, as a young person,
I believed...
that this could happen,
although I'm not really sure
I did.
You know, like, now I think,
like, "Oh, yeah, I was like,
I'm totally gonna make it."
I know sometimes, um,
before a show had happened,
I-I'd just kind of see, like,
as the lineup was formed
and the show was getting ready
to start,
and I'd kind of have these,
like, outer-body experiences--
I don't really even know
what that means--
but, like, I was looking
at myself saying, like,
"What are you doing here?"
Like, "You can't... this can't
be you having this show."
You know, like,
it was just like...
SOFIA: When you see
all the models and the clothes
-and they're coming together.
-Yeah.
And I'd have it, like,
season after season,
-so it wasn't, like...
-Oh.
...with time that went away.
It was still that same
kind of thing, like,
"I can't believe
this is happening for me."
You don't know how
to do the Hustle?
No, I do not know
how to do hustle bustle.
-You're too young. Come on.
-I'm not too young...
Do this. You have to do
the slide thing.
Follow me. Don't be so stiff.
-I can't do this.
-Relax, relax.
SOFIA: Do you ever feel
satisfied by a collection?
Like, that it turns out
the way you imagined it?
Or you never know
what it's gonna be?
MARC:
Um, I feel...
That was...
There was that one show
we did with Karole Armitage
right before the, um...
Oh, the dance one?
-Yeah. Yeah.
-Right before the pandemic?
(indistinct chatter)
MARC:
We're all sitting around,
trying to think, like,
"What is this show?"
Like, we're in the Armory
and that's all we know.
There has to be something
credible about this.
There needs to be an idea here.
Like, I just don't want,
like, a bunch of dancers.
Out of that conversation,
Karole Armitage's name
came to mind.
I mean,
she was amazing back then.
It was like if Edie Segwick
were a punk ballerina.
-Wow.
-It was very that.
We started talking
about an idea,
and then we auditioned dancers.
We saw hundreds of people.
On the second floor,
we created a dance studio,
and she started choreographing
this piece,
and they were working
around the clock.
And then we had fittings.
It was crazy.
But, see, I-I--
That kind of crazy, I love,
'cause you just feel like...
you feel like something's,
you know, happening.
You're making something,
and it's exciting and all that.
And then I was blown away
by the show.
("Orchestra Rehearsal"
by Anton Batagov playing)
And then we said,
"Oh, sh*t, we have to make all
these clothes for the dancers."
We wanted them to be dressed
in a way that was similar enough
to the vibe of the show
that you would lose the dancers
and the models.
-SOFIA: Yeah, I love that.
-You know, that they wouldn't
be, like... them versus us.
After that show,
I had such a feeling
that came over me.
I can re-feel it right now.
If this was my last show,
I'd be happy with...
Like, I'd be happy, like,
to end my whole career
on this show.
Like, it just felt--
I was really super satisfied.
Now, when I go back,
I still find fault
with some of the clothes.
-Like, some of the clothes
are problematic. -Really?
-But...
-Really? Oh, I...
-But the show...
-No one...
-...as a thing,
-(applause)
as a collaboration, as a thing,
as a seven-minute
piece of theater,
I thought, was amazing.
(cheering, applause)
-(birds chirping)
-(vehicle passes)
WOMAN:
No problem. No problem.
-MARC: Did you meet Giuseppe?
-ROMAN: I did not.
-How many years we worked
together? -30.
30 years.
We've been-- He's been working
with me on shoes
and making all the shoes
for the shows since 30 years.
I make, uh, 105, 106 dfil
with you.
-MARC: 106 dfil? Yeah. Wow.
-S.
-Mm. Why are they so big?
-Huh?
Why are they so big?
They're men?
-'Cause they're kind of
like clown shoes. -Oh.
(chime dings)
("Big Spender"
by Joseph Gershenson playing)
(chime dings)
Hey, mister, can I talk to you
for a minute?
Got a cigarette for me,
mister, huh?
Hey, mister,
do you speak Spanish?
Hey, tiger, you want to dance?
A little dance won't hurt you.
Come here, cowboy.
I want to tell you something.
Moshi, moshi,
ikaga desu-ka, baby?
Ooh, you're so tall.
MARC: So often I like the same
images as a starting point.
And the lineup
of all the dance hall girls
in "Big Spender," you know,
in the number in Sweet Charity,
it's just one of
those things, like...
-That you always...
-It's just I'll never...
-not be inspired by that image.
-(laughs)
So there's one scene, and
it's all the different dancers
against the, like, bar.
And you see them all in profile,
and they all have
these different wigs
and very powdery skin,
and they just look
kind of like broken dolls,
-in a way that only Fosse
could do. -Mm. (chuckles)
So let me get right
to the point
I don't pop my cork
for every guy I see
Hey, big spender...
MARC:
And it's so-- it's so right.
Like... like,
to make eye contact
with the audience is,
like, really disturbs people.
Or to point at them, really.
Like, you know, it's really...
And-and I just--
I thought, like...
I've looked at this
so many times, and I found it
so cool,
but I didn't realize, like,
when you broke it down,
how, like...
you know, how smart
every little gesture was.
("The Pompeii Club
(Rich Man's Frug)" playing)
The precision
of every little gesture
created a feeling of discomfort
or titillation
or whatever it was.
And he was
a really incredible man.
Like, a really-- genius.
-SOFIA: Oh, okay. Mm.
-MARC: Yeah.
(indistinct chatter)
MARC: I think she's just trying
to loosen up the models
a little bit,
get them to do what I want
-but, like, also, like, relax.
-Yeah.
-Did you tell her how... their
personalities? -Well, yeah.
I said which arms go forward
-and which arms go behind.
-Oh.
And which arms
are out at the side.
Oh, fun. (chuckles)
(indistinct chatter)
WOMAN:
Hi, everyone.
Um, Faye, I'll walk you through
so you know it.
It's a simple... simple runway,
but there is a beautiful set
that you have to work
your way around. So...
14, Diane.
15, Caren.
16, Camille.
17, Luiza.
18, Victoria.
MARC:
Um, Delilah's little...
-Yes. Yeah.
-Do y... arms out like this?
(stammering)
Uh, I think they're...
Uh, they can just be
in front like this.
-They can just be in front.
-In front of the dress?
Yeah. Yeah.
-JOSEPH: I'd say.
-MARC: Okay. Okay.
Let's see.
Delilah should keep her arms
a little bit like this,
like a ballerina.
She's got, like,
the little white tights
and that little minidress,
but not like-like that.
But just like...
Sh-She does it automatically.
-Okay. Okay.
-If you just tell her...
-What I don't want is this.
-Here she is.
-Okay. -Delilah, you're gonna be
a little bit like this, right?
-Just like a little ballerina...
-Perfect.
...c*ck waitress,
dance hall girl.
-"Can I take your order?"
-Exactly.
I think, over the years,
what's happened is the story,
to me, just becomes
a-a piece of entertainment.
Like, it's not about
the clothes at all.
Like, the clothes may be
the main part of the story,
but it's really about,
like, telling a little story
in seven minutes and, you know,
and-and that's made out
of shapes and colors
and fabrics and...
Even if it's not abstract,
there's just more of
an abstract approach to it.
Just like... whatever.
Put this together.
Tell the story.
(indistinct chatter)
She's very Mrs. Robinson,
this one. (chuckles)
But not.
Like Mrs. Robinson if I were
redoing The Graduate. (laughs)
BENJAMIN: You give me a drink,
you put on music.
Now you start opening up
your personal life to me
-and tell me your husband
won't be home for hours. -So?
Mrs. Robinson,
you're trying to seduce me.
(laughing)
("Ambient Chopin"
by Peter Murray playing)
MARC: I have some very fond
memories of watching my mother
do her makeup
when she'd go out on a date.
I could sit there for hours
and sort of watch her
as she'd choose her clothes
and put her makeup on.
She took a piece
of black velvet ribbon
and she'd scrape it with a knife
so that she could take
the pile from the black velvet
to make the lashes even thicker
and clumpier.
I just think the idea
of transformation
and creating this person
that you want to be
or show the world at any given
time is part of human nature
and the joy of being a woman,
man, or-or a person.
(music fades)
MARC:
My father...
SOFIA: He was an agent
at William Morris.
-MARC: Yeah.
-Crazy. In New York?
-MARC: Yeah. Yeah.
-Wow. And so he...
That's where he met my mother.
She was, like, doing temp work
as a receptionist.
SOFIA: And your dad was an agent
for, like, actors and stuff?
He was in Variety.
That was what he did first,
which is...
Then he went to TV.
TV. But it was
right before he died.
My favorite, favorite memories
of my father
were when he would take me
to the office.
That was, like, the most...
Like, I met the different
agents, and you...
You know, you--
I don't know. I...
Really, the best memories
I have.
SOFIA: How old were you
when you went to live
-with your grandmother?
-So, I'm always a little bit
unclear about this,
'cause I think
there was a period of time
where I was living with her
but I was still
not living with her full-time.
-You'd just stay with her?
-I stayed with her a lot.
And then I don't know
whether it was 13 or 14
that I was moved-in full-time.
I had a stepdad who was very...
not good
and, um, not a nice person.
And he didn't like her,
and she didn't like him.
He forbid me to call her
or to see her.
And I was just, like,
not having it.
(low chatter)
MARC: With Diane, one of
the things I was very sure of
was, like, a very irregular,
really exaggerated eyelash.
And so she used, like,
black nail polish,
like, so they'd have
some shine in them.
But also to make
these kind of clumps.
-Okay, so clump. Clump, clump,
clump. -Yeah. Yeah.
Lower one's still not so clumpy.
-They're very, like,
straight line-y. -Yeah.
(stammers)
Is that something you...
you think it looks better
like that?
No, it's just 'cause we have...
But then, over time,
it starts...
-They un-pinch?
-Yeah.
MARC:
You can't glue them?
-DIANE: Well, we're using
nail polish. -Yeah.
-DIANE: Yeah. -But...
'Cause you know what I mean?
-DIANE: Yes. -It's like
one, two, three, four.
-They just look like
straight lines. -Yeah. Yeah.
MARC: Whereas here,
you get those nice triangles
-and shapes.
-Yeah.
I think we have to... Like,
here they're good, aren't they?
Better.
-Better.
-It's lining on the top,
-and then I brush the underneath
into it. -Okay. Okay.
-DIANE: So it's not
super defined all over. -Okay.
DIANE: So you just get
the emphasis on the top shape.
(low chatter)
-It's like the cut crease,
no brow. -Yes. Yeah.
-Cut crease with a brow.
And brow. -Yeah. -Yeah.
And then there's no brow at all,
which was what we saw yesterday.
-Yeah.
-Yes. With nothing on the eye.
(low chatter)
MARC: See, there,
the skin and the highlight...
DIANE:
Looked great.
-Yeah. Well, I mean...
-Because you're getting the...
-Huh? -That is the beauty light,
there. -Yeah.
Beauty light.
-That's what we need
all over the world. -(chuckles)
In the weeks leading up
to the show,
it'd just get faster and faster.
So there's, like,
more that has to get done
and patterns get corrected,
and then they have to go out
to Italy to be sewn
and come back and whatever.
So it does feel like
it all accelerates in the f...
the f-four weeks before the show
and more in the two weeks
before the show. But, um...
SOFIA: Though, at this point,
you have no idea what...
MARC: I really don't have
any idea at all.
("My Love is Better"
by Annie playing)
Coming with a lie,
here we go again...
MARC:
Very often, especially lately,
you know, there's just
a type of sound that I feel
is both dramatic and-and,
like, kind of
emotionally stimulating.
And, you know, the Armory
is a very big place,
and I-I feel like
the only music that stands up
to it are, like,
-really great composers.
You know? -Dramatic. Yeah.
(music fades)
("Richter: Spring 1"
by Max Richter playing)
SOFIA: Do you remember
when you first met Marc?
Yes. I think it was
at Honmura An's, is my memory.
And I have to ask him
if this is true.
It was with Sadie Coles,
and it was when
he was interested in art.
We had dinner, and we just,
like, hit it off instantly.
I think we just, like,
had a conversation about, um,
like Pina Bausch and also, like,
just, like, weird,
unusual things
that John and I really
liked to talk about.
And he knew about
really unusual things
like Rainer Fassbinder.
-Fassbinder. -That's what
they had a big connection about.
And it was just interesting
about the eye of a designer
who was so particular--
the same eye as John,
but then John does it
through paint.
I remember I was,
like, cutting up
some drawings of--
I was making copies
of Piranesi-like ruins.
And then he's like,
"Do you want to come over
and talk to me about doing set?"
And the show was on February 14,
and it was February 1.
And then I'm making
all these Puritan girls,
like the Puritans
from, like, America,
16-something.
And he said,
"Your carriage is called
"'Puritan's Delight.'
And these girls have been
my inspiration."
And he says, "Can you bring in
what you're working on
by tomorrow?"
And so I-I think I stayed up
all night doing all this stuff.
I brought it in
as a little paper set,
and he said, "It's fantastic.
And just do whatever she says.
Make it happen."
I just think you need air.
-We want to see the neck?
-Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Probably want this
to be a little...
Yeah, I just, I just want
to see some space,
especially 'cause you're gonna
have these collars in here,
and-and I just think
it looks more beautiful.
-("Ashes to Ashes" by Warpaint)
-In such an early song
I've heard a rumor
from ground control...
MARC: But it is crazy, when
you think of the amount of work
and the amount of people
to make something
-that's seen only once.
-Yeah, for seven minutes.
-Yeah.
-Ever.
I'm happy...
MARC: I had seen this picture
of, um, some dolls
that Taboo had made,
and it was of the Supremes.
And they were just so naively
done, which was so sweet.
And then one of my favorite
videos of the Supremes
is this appearance that--
they were on
The Tennessee Ernie Ford show,
and it's Diana singing
"Reflections,"
and it's the three of them just
in these, like, spangly dresses.
And I just always have been
mesmerized by that.
Crying reflects a hurt
I can't control
'Cause although you're gone
I keep holding on
To the happy times
Ooh, when you were mine
As I peer through the window
of lost time
Looking over my yesterday
And all the love
I gave all in vain
All the love
All the love
that I've wasted...
SOFIA: I love that
the mirrors on the bags
-come from the Supremes.
-Yeah, like...
I would never have
put that together.
I mean, they weren't mirrored.
They were sequined.
-But it's still, like... it...
-Yeah.
MARC: Just if, like,
if you had to do it yourself.
("Tigerlily" by La Roux playing)
All these girls are
girls who like boys,
and I think, like, you know,
I'm not really into,
like, accessories at the moment,
like, jewelry.
So I said, "Oh, we'll just make
the boys the accessories."
("Tigerlily" continues playing)
Happy birthday, Katie!
I love you!
Tonight out on the streets
I'm gonna follow you
And tell you all about a scene
that you would k*ll for
You're gonna love what's
running right in front of you
But you won't see it
by the light of the sun.
(song ends)
(crowd chatter)
It's showtime.
We are very not linear,
in terms of the way we work.
And it's kind of like
we're always looking
for something
that we're interested in
or excited by, right?
And then you can't kind of
find inspiration that way.
You kind of have to be
doing something
and you have, like,
some kind of connection to it.
And I don't remember
at what point in the process,
but we had been talking about
all these different things--
about scale, about size--
and then something
came up somewhere,
and I saw that picture
of the table at the Broad
that I had seen and experienced
many times.
And, um, so then I looked up
Robert Therrien,
and I was just like, "Oh, well,
this folding table and chairs
just sums it up for me."
And I kind of felt very much
this kindred spirit,
'cause everyday things,
whatever "everyday"
means to you, is like
the wonder of the inspiration
you find in them,
the way he thinks,
how he gets to where he's going.
I just feel like that feels
really like what we're doing.
(indistinct chatter)
-What you doing? Came undone?
-Yeah.
So should we get Joseph
or some-somebody?
(Wali speaking indistinctly)
Yeah. Okay, so we don't want
that to happen
when you've got the jacket on.
So can we get-- Somebody
find me Joseph or-- Joseph?
Joseph, Wali's top keeps opening
-when she puts the jacket on.
-Oh, really? All right.
-Yeah, the snaps.
-Oh, okay.
So I think if you pin it
or whatever you want to do.
-Yeah, yeah.
-But when she...
As soon as she does this.
(Joseph speaks indistinctly)
-We've only got ten minutes.
-Okay, then I'll...
-But your nail polish
still looks good. -Yeah.
-Right?
-Yeah.
-I was just talking...
-Yeah, that's it.
-Like that.
-MARC: Got it.
SOFIA:
But do you always get nervous
right before, even though you've
done this a million times?
Yeah. I do, and I don't...
I don't know. It's like...
Yeah, I get really nervous.
It's, like,
such a physical thing.
-SOFIA: I can feel it for you.
-I think it's just very...
I don't know. Maybe...
Is it different for you?
Like, I feel...
I feel very fright...
Like, I-I mean, obviously,
I work to show the work.
-Yeah.
-But then showing the work
is a very frightening thing.
How many minutes left?
We have to start
in four minutes, people!
Literally four minutes!
I'm ready. Like...
but the girls aren't
quite ready.
So when the girls are ready,
then I'm like, "Oh, my God,
do we really have to wait
for the audience? Do we really?"
-Yeah. Yeah. -You know,
I want to get them dressed.
I want to get going.
And I've been, like, super
impatient on a couple of shows
where, you know, I was insisting
with KCD backstage,
like, "I don't care
if it's five-of."
-Oh. -And they're like,
"No, you've got to, like,
at least wait till 6:00."
You know.
(crowd chatter)
You have two minutes.
Two minutes.
-It's one minute, Duffy.
You gonna be okay? -Yeah.
Okay. It's 6:00.
We're starting the show.
-It's 6:00. We're starting the
show. -Making the announcement.
-Yeah, we're making
the announcement now. -Okay.
(soft chatter)
We are now late!
-Can we please start the show?
-Yes.
-Yes. Now.
-Starting the show fully.
-Now. Now.
-Starting the show. Everyone...
MARC:
We're starting the show now.
("Metamorphosis One"
by Philip Glass playing)
Standing by. Um...
In three, two, one.
(cheering, applause)
(cheering, applause fades)
(birds chirping)
(giggles)
(chuckles)
SOFIA: How's the morning after
the show?
Um... um, it's okay.
It's okay. I'm j-- I'm...
I'm very tired.
Do you feel like
there's some catharsis
or that you work out things
from... childhood wounds
in being able to make
these imaginary worlds or...?
MARC:
Yeah, so when I was much younger
and... like,
my family fell apart--
you know, my dad died
and all this stuff--
I think I...
My solution, you know,
to all this chaos and mental
illness and all this stuff
was, like, go to your room
and make your room
into this safe place and--
where you can express yourself
and you can feel comfortable and
you can feel happy, you know.
And I do think--
I do think that that was like...
It-it may not be...
Like, that, that felt like
the beginning
of my understanding of how...
I have, like... my hiding place,
but I also have my world,
and then I also have
that place where
I can make something.
And maybe what came after was
like, okay, I can make something
and I want to share it.
SOFIA: I remember
you used to really crash.
-Yeah. -'Cause you used
to be really down,
I feel like, after a show.
Well, the down thing
will happen.
Like, um, my friend Lana,
she-she calls it
"post-art-done."
-Oh, yeah.
-As opposed to "postpartum."
I always say it's postpartum,
but that is "post-art-done."
-Yeah.
-So she changed it.
'Cause she's like,
after she makes a movie,
she's like, "There's this...
such excitement,"
but then, like-- and
you can't really explain it--
but I guess it's like
giving birth, in a sense.
There's, like, this comedown.
And no matter how you feel about
the work you've done,
you just can't avoid it,
it's gonna happen.
MARC:
Girls, it looks amazing.
You look gorgeous.
It's really great.
I started obsessing over, like,
a certain mistake yesterday
or-or something
I didn't like yesterday,
and then I was like,
"Just let it go, let it go."
But they'll catch up to me,
you know,
as I see more photos
or as I read reviews or...
I have a little distance,
you know?
Then I'll start,
like, getting...
I guess, down and a bit,
like, agitated.
My shrink always says, like,
"Obsessing over something
"that happened a week ago
isn't gonna change
what happened a week ago."
You know?
But I somehow believe that
if I obsess over it long enough,
like, it will fix itself,
you know.
And of course
I don't really believe it.
But then I think, "History tells
me I said that every time."
That's the thing about,
like, joy in work,
is that, if you can tap into
those few moments
or those few days or the,
you know, whatever it is,
then-then you kind of...
want to do it again.
You know?
Ten decisions
shape your life
You'll be aware
of five about
Seven ways
to go through school
Either you're noticed
or left out
Seven ways to get ahead
Seven reasons to drop out
When I said,
"I can see me in your eyes"
You said,
"I can see you in my bed"
That's not just friendship,
that's romance, too
You like music
we can dance to
Sit me down
Shut me up
I'll calm down
And I'll get along with you.
(song ends)
-("Line Up" by Elastica playing)
-(grunting in song)
Drivel Head wears
her glad rags
She's got her keys,
money and f*gs
I know
that her mind is made up
To get rocked
Drivel Head needs a new man
As only a drivel head can
He's a hormonal nightmare
So beware
Another victim
of line up in line
Line up in line
is all I remember
(grunting)
Oh, how their favors change
You could have been kinder
Yes, yes, line up in line
Line up in line
is all I remember
Oh, how their favors change
You could have been mine, uh
(grunting)
Drivel Head knows
all the stars
Loves to suck
their shining guitars
They've all been
right up her stairs
Do you care?
No.
(song ends)
(music fades)
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Marc by Sofia (2025)
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