01x02 - Authenticity

[bunniefuu]

My birthday's December tenth.

-What? Hi, Sagg.
-RAVEN SYMONE: Hi, Sagg.

Hi, Sagg.
Mine was November 23rd,

-so, I just got... What are you?
-Okay, Sagg!

-March 24th.
-[ALL LAUGHING]

-TIG NOTARU: I'm Aries, yes.
-[RAVEN LAUGHING]

What am I doing here?
Oh, my God. My apologies.

We're turnin'

ROBIN: Something really special happens
when women connect...

share, dream, and inspire each other.

This is Turning The Tables.

I don't think I ever could imagine
a tea party quite like this.

-[SHEILA E LAUGHING]
-ROBIN: But I'm lovin' it. I'm lovin' it.

I met you...

I was doing, "V103,
Mike Roberts in the Morning, yeah!"

I was part of a morning radio show
in Atlanta, GA.

This little one comes in.
You couldn't have been more than four,

five years old. And you had
that little face.

-It's the same face.
-ROBIN: I was...

-You know what? It is the same face.
-Yeah. Yeah, I know.

-[RAVEN LAUGHING]
-Being in it this long...

and constantly challenging yourself

and evolving. What was it like,
you know, being a child actress

and then... here you are?

Looking back at it, I think that I...

definitely lived in two brains.

I kinda split a little bit and saved
this person

from whoever Raven Symone was
at that time.

And I did not allow Hollywood
to really tamper with the core me

because I was so resistant to it.

Normally, people in my position
or my age bracket,

they get to go through their, you know,

rebellious teens and... and all of that
without the public staring at you, so...

Just being comfortable with it

and seeing all the people that come
before me and how I don't wanna be.

-RAVEN: And... [LAUGHING]
-[SHEILA LAUGHING]

...making very strategic choices,
so nobody knows my whole tea.

-ROBIN: Uh-huh.
-[RAVEN LAUGHING]

-Don't spill it all. Don't spill it all.
-You know, I will never...

-I will drink it. That's what's up.
-ROBIN: I know, that's why I'm drinking...

Sheila E., reading your book,
your memoir...

talk about that first gig with your dad.
You're five years old,

-just like Raven, really young in this.
-Yeah, I was five. My dad

he had a band
called The Escovedo Brothers.

So, I remember my mom said, "Okay,
we're going to play with your dad today."

I'm like, "Oh, yay!
I get to play with my dad."

I remember it like it was yesterday.

You could hear the crowd
and the... the sound of the music

and movement of people dancing.
My dad picks me up on the stage...

and sits.... sits me on a... on a stool.
And I got ready to play congas.

-Seemed like it worked out.
-ROBIN: Oh, yeah, yeah.

Seems like that might have been
a good show.

Yeah, I think... I think
it did work out for you.

I think it worked out.
I'm around stars. See?

-You are a star, honey.
-Nicely done. Nicely done.

I did notice the purple, Miss thing.

-That would just so happen, I swear.
-Okay, with Prince, okay.

-So, let's just talk about...
-SHEILA: It just so happened.

...that time in your life,

being with Prince.

Yeah, I think it should be
the other way around,

-when he first started playing with me.
-There ya go.

-[LAUGHING] All right.
-SHEILA: That's kinda how it happened.

It was the other way...

So, I was well known in the industry

and Prince came to the Bay Area,
San Francisco,

so a bunch of us went
to go watch him play.

But it was weird because on stage
I couldn't tell which one he was.

I was like, "Okay, wait,
he has on a G string? Wait, no.

-[RAVEN LAUGHING]
-"Does he? Wait he has on long socks

"and nothing? Wait, and a trench coat."

And I'm like,
"That can't be him. Is that him?"

Mm. So, anyway, the song comes
and he's singing and I was like,

"That is him. Oh, my God.
Okay, hold on. Let me get it together."

So, I go backstage, I open the curtain,
he's combing his hair and he saw me.

And he turned around and he said,
"Hi. Hi." Just like that, "Hi."

And I said, "Hi, my name is..."
"I know who you are."

"It's nice to meet you.
I've been following your career

"I can't believe you're here, like,
wow, like, you're..." He just...

He was just... he was just amazed, like,
"I... I saw you on TV playing drums

"with George Duke" and,
how much did he pay you?"

That was like... That first conversation.
So, we exchanged phone numbers

and then a week later he came back
and we just... I just showed him all of...

everything of Bay Area.
We just started hangin' out.

We're turnin'

Tig, you have done...

Man, I gotta tell you. The way you have...
You stand up to express yourself...

has been something that for me,
personally, and so many others...

Thank you.

-Thank you. You're living the truth.
-Thank you.

I mean, when you get up
on that stage like that, and...

you've been in this business
for a long time.

But to have that moment where you just,
were your true authentic self.

I mean, it was a real shift for me

across the board because previously,
I was very...

shut off.

A lot of my stand-up
or storytelling was very removed

from myself and observational.
And then, in four months,

I had pneumonia,
I had an intestinal disease, I had cancer.

My mother tripped and died.
I went through a break-up.

-Jeez...
-TIG: And I just...

I went onstage and decided
to talk about it

and try to find the light in it all.

And it was really
just such a pivotal moment

because it really taught me

the power of opening up
and making yourself vulnerable

and letting people help you.

'Cause I... I think that as time has
gone on, I've realized that...

I was essentially asking for help,

-in a way.
-What do you mean by that?

Sharing that with a room
full of strangers,

I was asking for their help.

And... and it really changed me.

And... But I've also realized that...

going through all of that...

I do feel like I had this level
of clarity but...

I did find that, as time goes on,

I didn't just hold that
and I have to always...

-Yep.
-...always be trying

to open myself and find new clarity.

But don't you now have the confidence
to know that you will.

I'm always shocked because I think,
"How did I not learn?

"Every lesson was in that.

-"How did I not learn?" But I did learn.
-ROBIN: Yeah.

But I have to continue to grow
and refocus

and find my new lessons
and my new places to grow.

-That's growth. Yeah. That's growth.
-ROBIN: I know. I know.

But I'm so glad
you're in good health, Tig.

-Yeah.
-ROBIN: Really.

-The health woes...
-TIG: Thank you.

...that you have gone through.
And bless your heart

for getting up on that stage.
Did y'all know when she did this,

that she took off her top?

-I saw it.
-SHEILA: Oh, really?

She took... Because to show the surgery
that she had that saved her life.

Wow.

I just kept thinking,
"Man, it'd be so funny

"if I took my shirt off

"and expose these scars
and just didn't talk about it."

You know? And just told jokes
about airplane food or whatever.

And... and then, people,
even one of my agents said,

"I don't know if you should do that,
you know?"

And... and I said,

"I don't know, I can't... Every time
I go up on stage, I just keep thinkin',

'Take your shirt off.

-'Take your shirt off.'"
-SHEILA: That's awesome!

And I didn't feel like I had to do it

because people were demanding.

-Nobody was demanding it.
-[ALL LAUGHING]

And so, anyway, it... it was pretty
exhilarating to take my shirt off

-because the crowd...
-ROBIN: Didn't it?

...I didn't lose 'em...

-No.
-...and everybody told me that...

maybe ten, 15 seconds later
they're just like, "Okay."

-Exactly.
-ROBIN: Yeah.

You just adjust to it. It's a human body
and it's just promoting that confidence.

You'll take your shirt off right now?

-[ALL LAUGHING]
-That's what I'm here to do.

Hey, you're a newlywed, you can't just...

Oh, you're right, right, yeah.

If you haven't seen her stand-up,
last time I was in New York.

You were so... Well, you're always funny,
but you were on that night.

And you were saying some things
and the... the crowd wasn't responding,

you said, "Oh, and the crowd goes mild."

[ALL LAUGHING]

I have used that often times
in the studio.

When the people don't respond,
"And the crowd goes mild."

But the crowd was going wild.
This makes me think of how...

Yeah, you don't have all the answers
or anything like that.

But that it sparks
a confidence that stays with you.

I remember, I... I had just been named
the third co-anchor

-with Charlie Gibson and Diane Sawyer.
-TIG: Mm-hmm.

And I'm thinkin', "Holy cow,
how did this happen?"

I'm like, "I'm gonna..." The gig's up.

-Someone's gonna find out that...
-Yeah, yeah.

..."Why did we put this woman
next to these two?"

-TIG: Yeah.
-So, I'm not really feelin'

that confident. Hurricane Katrina...

-hits my hometown. Our hometown.
-Our hometown.

-Down there on the Gulf Coast.
-TIG: Yeah.

Newly named co-anchor,
they send me down to cover.

Got in the night after the storm,

was going to broadcast live
the next morning.

Had to drive all night long
to get to the location.

Still can't get in touch
with my mom or my sisters.

My mother couldn't evacuate
because my father had passed away

shortly before that
and she had health issues.

So, they think I'm down there to report.
I was down there to find my mama.

-I'll take the jet.
-Yep. Yep.

ROBIN: I take the helm like, "Okay."

And I said to the crew, "You guys
set up, I'm... I have to find my family."

-There's no way I'm gonna go on live TV...
-TIG: Sure.

...until I find my family.
Police officer helps me find my mom.

I knock on the door, go in,
she's in the back singing gospels.

-"Oh, what friend we have in Jesus!"
-[SHEILA LAUGHING]

ROBIN: And I'm like, "Oh!"

And she's like "Oh, honey,
how'd you get here?"

I'm like, "I've tra..."

[ALL LAUGHING]

And... and I... I was like, "I don't wanna
go do my live shot." And she goes,

"No, tell people. Tell the people
how bad it is. Go do your job."

So, I leave her, get to the live location
just in time before going on the air.

So, I'm the cub reporter,
and I just like,

"Uh. This is the situation here
on the Mississippi Gulf Coast.

"Back to you, Charlie and Diane."

And Charlie says to me, live on TV,
he goes, "Hey, when you left here

"you hadn’t made contact
with your family. Were you able to?"

-Right dead in the camera. Just tears...
-SHEILA: I saw it.

I saw it. It was emotional.

-I couldn't help it, Sheila. I couldn't...
-SHEILA: Yeah. But that's truth though.

-That's truth.
-But I thought I was gonna lose my job.

-I wasn't thinkin' about it at the time...
-Right.

...but I thought, like, "You can't cry.

-"No one cries on TV like that."
-SHEILA: Yeah.

And I thought at that moment,
the lesson I learned was, like,

If you're authentic and true,

-people are gonna respond.
-SHEILA: Absolutely.

-They're gonna really respond.
-RAVEN: Yeah.

And it gave me the confidence to, like,
"I'm not gonna have all the answers

and I'm still learning but by golly,
I'm gonna get this."

And there's that difference between the...
And I know this is, like, contradictory,

but the fake authenticity
and the real authenticity.

There's so many people that are like,
"I'm authentic!" And I'm like...

-[ALL LAUGHING]
-...That's real gimmicky.

-Show, don't tell.
-Exactly. Exactly.

And that's what I see here. I'm like,
that is... that's true star power.

That's longevity,
that's mastering the craft

of just entertainment
but also being yourself at the same time.

We turnin'

ROBIN: What gave you the confidence
to speak your truth?

I was in love at the time with that person
and I was fed up with...

just closing the door and being myself
once the door was closed instead of...

being told out in public
that who I was wasn't brandable.

Like, I've been told
I've been a liability,

and, you know, "This is what your job is,"
and "That's who you are," and...

especially, at that young of an age,
like, "You have to stay this way

and look this way and this..."
I'm just, like, all right,

close the door, and here I am
in my sweats and my hoodie

and I'm just like...

-Wow.
-And people always wonder, like,

"Why aren't you smiling?" I'm like,
'cause this is not really who I am, truly.

But... Fell in love and...

the dreams that I dreamed
when I was younger...

-Yeah, okay, old girl.
-...presented itself.

I mean, I didn't even know how to say it,
but it just presented itself.

Like, "Oh, okay. I don't have to
be 39 before I come out."

Which is what I thought when I was younger

because that was the trend
at the time, like...

-It was?
-I mean, I just...

I don't really remember
young people my age...

-Oh, okay.
-...in the '90s, coming out.

It was like, you... you only saw
an older generation do it.

-And nowadays, the generation...
-ROBIN: Look at Symone.

She looks at us when she says
older generation who did it.

-Thank you very much.
-RAVEN: You know what? No.

-I love it! I love it!
-ROBIN: But I never thought about that.

-That's true.
-RAVEN: So...

And how about for you, Sheila E.?
I mean, your talent...

There are no limits to it.

And then, when you went solo,
you know, you personified,

-just, beauty, sex, sexuality.
-Yeah, I created a monster.

And at that time, I didn’t like who I was.
It was real...

So, when I became Sheila E.,
I changed my name from Sheila Escovedo

to Sheila E. because people
pronounced it wrong all the time.

I was like, "Whatever. Okay,
let's just change it."

So, I was gonna do my solo record.

And I thought, "Okay,
now no one can tell me nothing!

"I'm gonna do whatever I wanna do.

-"Let me see how naked I can get!"
-[ALL LAUGHING]

So, I was dressing very sexy.
And the reviews...

during the tours,
were more about not how I performed

and, "She was great." or, you know,
"It was an amazing show."

It was, "What is Sheila
not going to wear?"

And I thought, "Okay, now I feel naked.

-"Now I feel naked."
-Ooh!

And that was kinda deep 'cause I just...
I... then I felt embarrassed.

And... There was even a point where
even Prince said to me... He was like,

"You sure you wanna do this?"

I'd say, "Yeah. 'Cause I'm Sheila E.,"
you know?

-Prince?
-SHEILA: Yeah.

-SHEILA: As sexy and... Exactly.
-ROBIN: Now when Prince...

No, when he does that...

RAVEN: How do you feel
about the performers today?

And their choice of clothing
and the people that want...

-'Cause, honey...
-Tea time.

-Really? Tea time...
-Tea time, crumpets?

-SHEILA: No. You know what?
-ROBIN: Good question.

No, it's a good question.
And the thing is, is I can't say anything

because I did that.

Put your hand in the fire, it's hot.
"No, it's not. Let me see.

"Oh. Ouch. Okay, it hurts."

So, I had to go through it myself.
And that was the lesson.

Learning and figuring out, like,
I don't have to look sexy to feel sexy.

You know?

Both of you have said that you've have,
you know, agents or, you know...

try and, "Don't do this. Don’t do that."
But when did you say, "No,"

"this is how I'm gonna do it"?

I went through all
those conversations with...

agents and publicists of, "You have
to wear this and you have to be like this.

And then, just like a lot of stuff.
And I said to myself at my house,

"I'm just gonna sit on the couch
and zone out"

And I was like, "What am I gonna do?
I'm quitting the industry.

"I'm quitting. I get a chance to.

"Normally, people who have been
in the industry

for 20 something years or 30..."
Not the industry but in industry

"gets to retire."

And I stopped for, like, three years,
three or four years.

And what did you do during
that three-year period?

I got a degree! I got my art degree,

I'm a fine art major and I started
coming into my own. It's...

You know, what's happening...
those voices that you heard.

-I finally heard my own and...
-Did you hear "Take off your shirt"?

-I did. I did.
-[ALL LAUGHING]

-And I said no.
-[ALL LAUGHING]

And... Yeah, I got into a relationship
that kinda just...

snowballed into everything else.
But it was... it was a thing of like,

No more parents. I'm... 27, 28, 29
and I'm still listening to other people

tell me what to do,
when other people are out here

making choices beyond. And I'm waiting
for someone to tell me what to do. So...

If you don't accept it,
you don't accept it.

At least I did it for me
and that's all that matters.

That's all that matters.
You did it for you.

-There you go. That's awesome.
-ROBIN: What about you, Tig?

When was your... what was your
line in the sand moment?

I have to say, I don't feel like...

I've... I have that experience where...

I was doing something one way
and then I...

Other than I wasn't being vulnerable
or open in my stand-up.

And...

I think that was my one shift. But I was
never really going down a... a road

that didn't feel right.
It's just that I hadn't awakened

this other side of myself
to where I went, "Oh,

"why was I just doing that?" And...

I feel like it's more so that...

I broke through in a way
where the industry

and the entertainment world
finally went...

"Well, I guess we can make
some room for you, after all."

-[SHEILA LAUGHING]
-TIG: You know?

I binged your show twice,
I don't know what they're talkin' about.

-Well, thank you.
-RAVEN: It was fantastic.

-TIG: Thank you. Thank you.
-Tell me about it.

-Please. Like, it was just...
-ROBIN: And I've seen her live.

Well, it's funny 'cause people say
"Please do another season."

I'm like, "No, it was canceled.
It's not like I...

"It's not like I just went,
'You know what? I'm done.'"

[ALL LAUGHING]

-I'm not doing it any longer.
-Yeah.

It's like when people's parents say,
"You know what you should do?

"You should do The Tonight Show."

And they're like,
"Yeah, I would love to, Mom.

"Could you make a call for me?"

You made me think of my... my mom.

I... I was growing up,
I wanted to be involved in sports.

I wanted to be
a professional athlete but...

But I was the state bowling champion
in Mississippi when I was 12.

-I mean, that's...
-Oh, wow.

And the crowd goes mild. Okay.

-TIG: You really do use that.
-I do use that, baby.

Have you ever given me credit?

I was forgetting something, but now
it's on record. I'm gonna have to.

-Now you're busted.
-But I was... I was 12 years old.

State champion. Doing really well. And...

being a girl in sports,
and wanting to be in sports. I was like,

"Okay, I'll be
a physical education teacher.

-"I'll be a PE teacher."
-SHEILA: Yeah.

That's what...
'cause that's the only thing...

-Sure.
-...that I could do.

And I went home and I told my mom,
who was a long-time educator.

And I said, "Mom,
I decided I'm gonna be...

I'm gonna be a PE coach."
She said, "No, you're not."

She didn't bat an eye.
She's like, "You don't wanna do that.

"You think that's the only thing
you can do. No."

I was like, "Oh, oh, oh I mean I can
kinda think outside the box?"

It's just those times
and those little conversations

or those little moments,
whether it's your parent

or somebody off the street, or...

or whatnot, can really...
can really turn the course for you.

When did you all decide...
because as... as bold as you all are,

and you're out there...

But also to be protective
a little bit of yourself.

Not give it all away.
How do you find that balance, Sheila?

Whoo! That's a good one.

I think that...

Okay, I'mma get myself together
'cause I don't wanna...

I'll start to get emotional.

A piece of me was taken from me
when I was five by a babysitter.

He lived upstairs. The worst thing
that could ever happen to someone.

I didn't get to be a child, in a sense.

So, I was very protective.
It was that, you know,

you don't see anything,
you don't say anything,

you don't hear anything.

For many years.
So, I was protecting myself

because I felt like I was violated.

And so, I carried myself in being shy
but angry, at everyone.

You know, it wasn't who I was.
And finally, one day...

When... when you said, like,
you hear...

"Take off your shirt" you know?
It was like, you kept saying,

"Part of my healing was
to share my story."

-And that was my testimony.
-Wow.

-SHEILA: Yeah.
-Isn't that something

when you know your purpose?

-Yeah. Changes your life. It really does.
-ROBIN: Yeah.

-Yeah.
-Thank you for sharing that.

-ROBIN: Yeah.
-Oh, absolutely. Yeah it's... it was...

I mean, initially,
when I first started sharing it,

basically, really hard. You know?

But the more I did it,
the more I felt confident,

the more I... Again, being transparent
and truthful of who I am.

And when did you start sharing it?
How old were you?

-How long ago?
-Thirty-something.

-And I'll be 63 next... This week.
-You didn't share it until then?

Mm-mm. I shared it with my parents
but, you know, again...

-Yeah, but yeah.
-You start telling people

this is how you feel,
this is what I went through.

If you just share your story,
you're in a relationship

that you can't get out of,
whatever's happening.

You have to share that
in order to grow and heal.

You can't heal
if you don't share the story.

-You can't.
-But that's hard for some people, too.

'Cause, there's some people that...

tear you down, don't listen, like,
who did you go to first?

-You went up.
-And again, that's not for everyone.

It just means that some people,
you might have to go to a therapist.

Fine. Go to a therapist.
Talk to someone. Yeah, it was...

It's been an interesting journey

but even through all that,
I would never change anything 'cause now,

the person that I am is because of that.

Yeah. I love me.

-Well, don't change.
-RAVEN: You were made a being.

-I love me.
-ROBIN: [SINGING] Don't go changing

I can't sing, I can’t dance.

-ROBIN: But... I can bowl.
-But you can bowl.

-TIG: But you can bowl.
-Girl, I could bowl hard.

SHEILA: You bowl!

It's a time of changing...

where it's for the good.
People have good intentions

with pronouns and gender and...

But it's just... there's just funny,
awkward moments, like, I notice...

I... Like, even on flights...

I've had flight attendants say,
"How..." You know,

"How do you wanna be identified?

-"What is your..."
-They actually say that to you?

-TIG: Yeah, and I'm...
-Wow.

...and then, I say, "I appreciate it,
but I'm the only person you're asking."

-So, I... You know what I mean?
-Oh!

-Like, I feel like they should ask...
-ROBIN: Yeah.

-...everybody.
-Sure.

Not point out the person
with the short hair,

the... You know, 'cause I'm just
sitting there, going,

"I'm just an old-fashioned l*sbian.
Thank you"

You know? We did just take our kids
to the doctor the other day

and then the doctor said,
"So, Mom and Dad..."

And then I said, "I'm...

"I'm actually a female."

I... I mean, I've been talking to him.
We had been in the room...

-I was talking to him. I said...
-Oh, my God.

And I said "I'm... I'm actually a female.
It's two moms."

And he said, "Yeah, whatever...

"Moms."

I just... It was... He was... He was nice,
it just was so funny how he was...

He didn't even...

He didn't apologize. He was like,
"Okay, two moms. Whatever.

"Whatever you...
whatever you want, buddy"

-Yeah. Yeah.
-And just kept right on.

Yeah, just kept looking at our son's eyes.
And I was like, "Oh, well."

You know what? I'm realizing,
before we go, I just... I'm so...

blown away by your...

just genuine openness. You have this...

I would describe it as somebody
just rips their chest apart

and their inside is just glowing.

-And you have that about you.
-Thanks, Tig.

No, thank you for having that.

-But where... where does that come from?
-My mother and father, and...

Though I've told you about how...
I'm.. I'm gonna start getting weepy.

I...

Well, you've done it before on TV.

ROBIN: I know, really, why not?

-And it worked out really well.
-RAVEN: Yeah.

But how I... how I talked about how
my mom, what she said to me.

But there was... there was a...
My dad, who was just...

All he had to do
was just clear his throat.

And be... Oh, you know, like...
He was one of those that my mom would say,

"Wait till your dad gets home."

But he was so gentle.

He was a gentle giant.
And I remember all the pressure...

'Cause my mom and dad were the first
in their families to go to college.

And older siblings
who did exceptionally well.

And I'm the little one coming up
at the end.

And felt the pressure,
"I've gotta be this,

I gotta be that."

And you're asked a lot when you're a kid,
"What do you wanna be when you grow up?"

And I'll never forget, "Daddy,
what do I say when someone says,

"'What do you wanna be when you grow up'?"

He said, "Tell 'em you wanna be kind.

"You don't wanna be a doctor,
you don't wanna be an Olympian,

"you don't wanna...
Tell 'em you wanna be kind."

And I never forgot that.

And so the highest compliment
you could give me is what you just did,

-right there. And I know my mom and dad...
-Wow.

...are cheering
from their heavenly balcony.

-Going, "Job well done."
-SHEILA: Amen.

-Well, truly a job well done because...
-Thank you. Not me, them. Them. They did.

Everyone involved in the process
of making you who you are, job well done.

-RAVEN: We need more of that.
-Over here crying

Thank you! Thank you.

Well, it wouldn't be complete
unless we had a... a tear session.

-RAVEN: Yeah.
-And... and thank you. 'Cause again,

what world... what world would I ever...
If somebody would've said,

"You gotta meet Sheila E."

I'd be like, "How on earth
would I meet Sheila E.?"

-It's what I do. I bring people together.
-It's what you do. Bring people together.

-Yes, you do.
-Exactly.

ROBIN: That was good. Thank y'all.

I have a move.

-A move?
-TIG: A bowling move.

-A bowling move.
-It's something where I just...

-I...
-ROBIN: Oh, gosh...

I just... I do this.
I jump with both of my feet.

-ROBIN: You...
-I don't know, I'm sliding

while I'm letting go of the ball.

RAVEN: You're kinda giving me the grandpa
from Up right now,

-when you do that.
-[ALL LAUGHING]