Arnold Schwarzenegger
and Sylvester Stallone
Arnold Schwarzenegger
and Sylvester Stallone
were not just rivals
in the movie biz,
they were out to get each
other.
they were out to get each
other.
I mean, as soon as I saw him,
it was like, bang.
Two alphas hitting.
At first,
it was all about the venture.
Every time I read this is,
"Sly just got the new record
number, $10 million."
"Son of a b*tch."
And then
the rivalry just got insane.
We ended up kind of like, "You
k*lled 28 people in the movie.
I k*lled 32."
"I gotta top that."
For the first time,
these two icons
sit down together
and confess things each did
to torpedo the other.
You talked to my director?
- Yeah.
- Oh, my God.
Over time, they bonded
and became brothers in arms.
I wish I could be as passionate
about things as he is.
- Is that true?
- Absolutely.
- Really?
- Are you kidding me?
What's Arnold's legacy?
He came, he saw, he conquered.
Two men who became the biggest
action heroes of all time.
He has-- His shirt maker
makes a shirt
that has it pulled underneath
like diapers.
Magic's in the details, pal.
TMZ Presents: Arnold & Sly:
Rivals, Friends, Icons.
The way I see this is that
both of you...
were kind of
improbable movie stars,
and yet you conquered Hollywood.
You rose to
the top of the mountain.
Really, there were only two of
you at the top of the mountain.
So why did each of you
feel the need
to push the other
off the mountain?
I guess for that very reason.
There's not that much
room up there, you know.
Everybody wants to be
on the point.
I think it's something
you're born with.
I would go out for parts
I knew I was wrong for,
but I wanted them so bad.
And I would tell
the producer, director, I said,
"I know. I'm half the size,
you want this and that,
but I'll destroy this guy."
And when he came along,
I went, "Okay, finally...
I have something
that will really motivate me,"
because he is, dare I say,
competition or threat,
whatever words you wanna use.
And, I mean,
as soon as I saw him,
it was like, bang,
two alphas hitting.
Yeah, if we walked into a party,
we'd be, like, staring at
each other for a few seconds.
And then,
"I got to get that guy."
I don't know.
He didn't do anything wrong,
but he will.
The one that started
this whole thing was me
by opening up my mouth,
saying stupid things,
being competitive.
You come around here.
You wanna move in here with me?
Come on in! It's a nice house.
Rocky came out,
and I was, like,
blown away by his acting...
- Oh, right, right.
- ...and by the movie.
And then after that,
we were at the Golden Globes.
And we both won.
And so it was
plenty of room for everybody.
But that's not the way
I understand this.
I thought you,
when Rocky won Best Picture...
- Yes.
- ...you threw a bowl
of flowers at him.
I absolutely did.
He was sitting across from me,
and I'm going--
He won Best Newcomer.
No offense, but Rocky
was a pretty good debut,
and he's looking
very proud of himself.
And I didn't think we were
gonna win Best Picture.
Rocky.
We win, and I lost it.
And then I went and picked up
this entire bouquet of flowers
and tossed them
straight up in the air,
sort of aiming
towards his side of the table.
And it all comes down.
He's just sitting there
with the same kind of...
like, "Okay."
He just threw down the g*n.
And I kind of think,
"Here we go."
You remember that?
I remember the incident,
but it was not yet kind of like
the point where I said, "Okay.
This is now
the beginning of a battle."
It just developed then
from then on.
Now I had to chase him.
And then he did, you know,
Rocky II and then Rocky II,
and then he did all those movies
and it just kept
going up and up.
And I made-- My salary
was kind of like 10% of his.
You know, when he got now
$2 million, I got $200,000.
I think you were overpaid,
but don't say anything.
He made $5 million.
I got the $500,000.
So it was like, I had to
kind of, like, chase behind him.
I said, "This has to stop."
And every time I read this is,
"Sly just got the new record
number $10 million."
- You remember that?
- No actor-- Yeah, yeah.
No actor ever got 10 mill--
Not even Marlon Brando
got $10 million.
And I said...
-"Son of a b*tch."
- So I didn't boycott his movies
or anything like this.
I loved when he did Rambo,
- I loved when he did Rocky.
- This is all news to me,
but keep going.
I had to kind of
catch up to that, right?
So, this was--
It gave me kind of a motivation,
and this is
what the whole thing was about.
It became, then, very, very
competitive, the whole thing.
I get what you're saying,
that there were two of you
and then both
far below other people,
but in a way,
were you guys
a little bit in different lanes?
Your movies were fantastical.
They were almost
science fiction-like.
Your clothes.
Give them to me. Now.
And you were more
grounded in reality.
Why you doing me no favors?
You're embarrassing me
in front of everybody.
You make me look bad
in front of your sister.
See this cigar?
I'll stick it in your ear.
Now don't do these things to me.
So did you still see yourselves,
like, in the same lane,
or wasn't there
kind of a separation
in what you were doing,
at least at the beginning?
I always saw it
as a big time separation.
For example,
he was perfect for Terminator.
I would never
have been chosen for--
You know, I have crooked mouth,
drooping eyes.
If you're building
something so technical
and, like, precise,
playing a robot,
Arnold has the features,
the chisel, the hair, the look.
And so, he was always
a different kind of action guy,
I think.
He was more of a precise,
you know,
kind of a perfectionist.
I was more free-form and
more grounded, like you say.
And I had to deal with
what I had with,
you know,
I didn't have his body.
So I dealt more movements
and being more stealth,
more catlike.
Don't push it.
Don't push it, or I'll give you
a w*r you won't believe.
And he was more powerful-like.
Yet we achieved the same goal.
Yeah, no, absolutely.
I think that you end up doing
the things that you can do.
And also, the things that people
are buying in on.
And The Terminator, which was
a science fiction character...
Right.
- Yeah, you can't have
a machine that slurs.
- It doesn't work.
And then with Total Recall
and with all of these movies,
these were all--
and Running Man,
these were all kind of
like science fiction
or futuristic type of movies.
Yes, he was on a different
track than I was.
But still, it was an end
where we ended up kind of like,
"Well, you k*lled
28 people in the movie.
I k*lled 32."
"I got to top that."
So body count mattered.
It was not a body count.
And then it was kind of like,
"Well, what was your body fat?"
You know,
"I was down to 7%," Sly said.
And I said, "I was down to 10%."
So it became a competition
with the body.
- Yeah.
- And then it was kind of like--
Then he started
using machine g*ns
that were kind of like,
huge machine g*ns.
I was running after him.
He was not running after me.
So I said--
When we did Predator, I said,
"You got to get a machine g*n
that is normally
mounted on a tank
or on a helicopter."
"Arnold, you can never hold it."
I said, "We figure out a way.
Don't worry about it."
I got to have a bigger g*n,
a bigger machine g*n
than Sly used in Rambo.
So this is how it went.
So then he k*lled 80 people,
I had to k*ll 87 people.
And you got sucked into it too,
because the difference between
Rambo I and II and III and IV,
you got your g*ns bigger,
- more body count,
the whole thing.
Everything, yeah.
Franco Columbu,
- my training partner...
- Right.
...was his trainer for Rambo.
Okay,
throw it, throw it.
I got to tell you
about Franco, man.
This guy here,
- he was very eccentric.
Would you say?
- Yeah, yeah.
And we're working out, he goes,
"Let's have a competition
with bench press."
I said, "You won." He goes,
"No, come," and he went.
I said, "Oh, man."
So I go down,
and it's maybe only 200.
I'm just warming up,
and I hear, "pow!"
I go, "Ah!"
And I fall on the floor
and I'm going, "Ugh!"
And then Franco goes,
"Let me see."
And he jams his fingers.
I've torn my pec off the bone.
- Ugh!
- I mean, it's bad.
I could hear it go "rip."
And he's jamming his fingers in.
And I go, "Ah!"
And I think I'm gonna black out.
So, I go home.
I feel like my career is over.
I'm supposed to start
Rocky II, directed everything
in a month and a half.
And I think, you know,
I got to have
this thing sewn up.
And, you know,
and here's the difference.
And he would have done
the same thing.
I can't use this arm.
So, I'll change it,
and Rocky,
he'll fight right-handed.
He's fighting right-handed!
I don't believe it.
The southpaw from Philly
is fighting right-handed!
Mickey goes,
"At the very end, you'll switch
and catch him off-guard,"
which is completely illogical.
But I said, "I'm not stopping
this movie just for this."
- So this is a bad injury.
- So you switched arms.
I switched arms. So in Rocky,
it was one of the key things.
But it's interesting the way
these incredible
journeys happen.
But we don't stop.
We don't quit.
- He punked you.
- Yes, he did.
- You got suckered in.
- Yeah.
- So he played you.
- He did,
and I'm stuck with that forever.
One of my favorite
stories about you guys
was Stop! Or My Mom Will sh**t.
- Yeah.
- He punked you.
- He punked you.
- Yes, he did.
Because you knew
it was a bad script
and acted like you wanted it.
- You got suckered in.
- Yeah.
- So he played you.
- Yes, he did.
He did, and I'm stuck
with that forever.
First of all,
when we talk about the movie,
I didn't talk him into because
I never talked him about it.
But it was very clear
that his agent
was telling my agent,
"Look, Sly is interested
in doing it,
but I don't know if
it's the right thing for him.
Let me know
what you guys are thinking."
And then my agent said,
"Well, you know,
Arnold really loves it.
I think it's fantastic."
So then I called
Roger Spottiswoode,
who was the director,
who just did
the James Bond movie.
- Oh, my God.
And so
he was kind of the hot director.
So he was the right guy to go.
- Did you know this?
- No.
So anyway, so he's--
I talked to Roger Spottiswoode.
You talked to my director?
- Yeah.
- Oh, my God.
So my agent then said,
"Well, Arnold is talking
to Roger Spottiswoode now,
and he's already--
he's really into it.
I think we're gonna
take the project."
And then, of course, his agent,
knowing that
he's competitive with me,
he said,
"You cannot let that happen."
And so he then called
the studio right away and says,
"Look, you've got to
give this to Sly.
Don't give it to Schwarzenegger.
You've got to give this to Sly."
And I said, "Fine, Sly got it."
And so then he got the movie.
So I was, of course,
absolutely in heaven,
because I said,
"I felt like the only way
that I could catch up with him
is if he has a stumble."
- Can you get more Machiavellian?
- It is.
You got to go
and have him have a failure.
- Unbelievable.
It was psychological.
This is a whole thing
about in Hollywood
when you're always
as good as your last movie.
So I felt kind of like,
"Okay, if Sly would stumble..."
And sure enough, when the movie
came out, it was a disaster.
You know, so, I mean,
so the day was hanging
and everyone was writing,
you know,
"What a day--
the heydays are over for Sly."
So I said, "Okay, this is now
a moment for me to catch up."
The way you talk,
it makes me think
that neither of you would be
as successful without the other.
I can't agree to that.
I think it helped
because we came along
in a certain era
that the movies
were transitioning.
There were no such thing
as real action movies.
You saw a car chase.
You saw some gunplay.
There was no action film
where you actually said,
"Okay, from beginning to end,
this guy is in movement.
He's doing things.
He's making action happen."
- Hey, hey! Wait!
First Blood,
which was almost a joke.
I was the 11th choice.
It was a cursed film.
And that became
my first action film.
Real action.
No dialogue, no nothing.
And then Arnold,
his films also were
very action-oriented.
So we kind of started something
that I don't think
exists anymore.
At least it doesn't the way--
It was like a man
against the world kind of thing.
Now it's more of ensemble
against the world, you know.
But you said that
he really kind of inspired you
to work harder, to do better.
So in a way,
each of you help the other.
- Yeah.
- Well, there's no two ways
about that.
He was very helpful in my career
because I had something
that I could chase
and that I could kind of, like,
"Oh, I have to be able
to do this kind of work."
But at the same time,
I think that what is important
and he did not mention yet is
- that we have created
a certain kind of era.
- Yeah.
And that is kind of like
we were the first ones
that did action movies
and that were
actually believable
that we could do the things
that we did on the screen
because of
our muscular development,
because of our bodies.
We were ripped.
We had abs, we had deltas.
We looked totally believable
that we could do
those kind of things.
And so then you saw
other kind of action heroes
kind of changing quickly
and going
and running to the gym,
getting personal trainers
and training
and training and training,
and then coming out
and then looking also ripped
and all this.
And all of a sudden,
it spread in movies.
It spread on TV.
I have to stop right here
and interrupt one time,
because you're absolutely right.
A lot of guys did come out,
but they weren't action guys.
They were martial arts guys.
A whole other thing.
And we didn't care about that.
We were more different
in the way we fought back.
So I've only seen really maybe
two or three real action guys
and the rest are kind of
hyphenate martial arts guys,
which is a whole other thing.
You know, you come into a room
and you fight 20 guys
and no one pulls a g*n.
Our films were
more of an adventure
and totally different.
And neither one of us
know a thing about martial arts,
but we know how to bust
a head or two.
Run over him.
- Okay.
- Go get 'em.
We created that era.
Now there are a lot of actors
that are living off that era
and they're copying that,
and they're very,
very successful in doing so.
I'm a very emotional person.
I think that people that
have had horrible upbringings,
it's a [bleep] terrible burden
to lay on anyone.
I think that what drove me was,
I had such need
to create my own world.
I had to get out
of that misery at home.
What's your favorite
Schwarzenegger movie?
Terminator 2
is, like, perfect film.
- Get down.
Wouldn't you agree?
It's like, everything about it
was just spot on.
It had new CGI,
had new inventive,
had a good villain.
I think he really--
he really excelled in that.
What about
your favorite Sly movie?
Stop! Or My Mom Will sh**t.
That's it.
I know you guys-- It's okay.
And I'll say Junior.
- Rambo II.
- Rambo II?
- Wow.
- My favorite is Rambo IV.
Can I get psychological
for a minute?
You both had really
tough upbringings, both of you.
Almost horrific in a way.
There's this famous poem,
it's called
"Children Learn What They Live."
And a part of the poem is,
"If children live
with criticism,
they learn to condemn.
If children live with hostility,
they learn to fight."
When you guys
look at your childhood,
because I'm really
fascinated by it because
I had a rough childhood too,
and I can relate to some
of what you guys went through.
When you think
about your childhood,
what carried forward
with you to this day?
Because you don't shed it.
You don't forget it.
It doesn't go away.
So what is it in your childhood
that is still part of you,
good or bad?
Well, I have a lot of sadness,
you know, because I think
about what could have been.
It didn't have to be so bad.
And it was bad.
Yeah, both your parents,
especially your mom,
were just a*usive and cruel.
I think that a lot of people go,
"Oh, that's what made you
what you are today."
I think it's a lie.
I think that you are--
I am who I am.
If I had been encouraged
and someone was more supportive,
I think it would
have been even better.
But instead,
I had to try to overcome
all these insecurities
and doubting
from the parents
to overcome that and succeed.
But you bring with you
a lot of bittersweet feelings,
and you try not to convey that
onto your new family.
But that's part of your makeup.
I don't believe that which does
not k*ll you makes you stronger.
Usually, that which
doesn't k*ll you kills you
or almost comes close to it.
And you carry
scar tissue inside.
And it kills me.
I mean, I'm a very--
really emotional person.
And I think-- You know,
I think that people
that have had
horrible upbringings,
it's a [bleep] terrible burden
to lay on anyone.
And parents should just, like--
they don't realize it
because they were
treated like crap.
And see, it's a vicious cycle
that goes on.
So I can't just
blame it on them.
Because when I go back and I
look at my mother's upbringing,
you know, orphanages
and this and that,
and my father's,
they had--
you know, they were angry.
They just thought, "That's the
way I'm gonna pass it on.
You're not gonna be happy
if I'm not happy."
Your dad was angry a lot, too.
Yeah, my dad was angry.
And, you know,
everyone after
the Second World w*r
over there was angry.
They lost the w*r.
You know, the a*s was handed
to them by the Americans.
So my father came back
from the w*r
with wounds,
broken back, malaria,
shrapnel in his legs
and stuff like that.
So he went through
a lot of pain afterwards.
So because of the drinking,
there was violence at home.
So he would come home
and smack us around sometimes,
sometimes for reasons
and sometimes for no reasons.
And he would show brutality
sometimes to my mother.
And the reason why
I never kind of think back
in a negative way is,
unlike Sly, I don't.
I just don't have it in me
to look at my father and say,
"You son of a b*tch, why did you
do that?" Or anything like that.
I felt kind of like--
I don't really know
the pain he had and why he drank
and all the stuff that was
in him and all that stuff.
And on top of it,
I said to myself,
"If I would have grown up
like some people do
with all the love in the world,
I would have never left home."
I would have stayed in Austria.
It's not the kind of life
that would've made me happy.
I always felt kind of
I was a citizen of the world,
not a citizen of Austria.
But you don't think
you would've done that anyway?
- No.
- Oh.
I think that what drove me was
I had such a need
to create my own world.
I had to get out
of that misery at home.
And you're almost turning
the misery into a blessing.
Yeah, so it was
a blessing in a way,
because, you know, so again,
I disagree with Sly because
my brother,
Meinhard, he died.
He died because his reaction was
to become an alcoholic himself.
One day driving with a car
and then hitting
a telegraph post, you know,
one of those big things,
and just smashed into it
and got k*lled.
So-- But that was
because of that upbringing.
And this is why I do believe in
"What does not k*ll you
make you stronger,"
because it k*lled my brother.
Mm-hmm.
- But it made me stronger.
You and I had no choice.
We were gonna do something.
You escaped into bodybuilding,
I escaped into theatrics,
because I wasn't too happy
with reality.
So I said, "This is my world
because I don't like this one."
So I think that we were
gonna do it no matter what.
It just would've been nice
with a little bit
more encouragement, that's all.
And the Oscar goes to...
Robert Downey Jr.
When Robert
Downey Jr. at the Oscars
said when he received
his Oscar...
- I'd like to thank
my terrible childhood.
I immediately
could relate to that.
Yeah, absolutely.
- Because he went through
trouble and pain.
I don't know exactly the story,
but to him--
for him to thank
his [bleep] upbringing
means that that motivated him
and got him going
into a different direction
rather than staying
in the [bleep].
I know you supported Arnold
when he ran for governor.
- I did.
What I'm wondering is,
did you do it so you could get
him out of the movie business?
Yes, actually.
- You read through me, did you?
Oh, my God.
You both have kids who
grew up with a lot of privilege.
- Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
- That you didn't have.
So how did you guys raise kids
when they can't see
what you saw?
- Right.
- Other than the fact that
you're these incredibly famous,
wealthy two guys
and they're looking at this--
you know, in this mansion.
How do you raise kids
with those values?
I'll tell you,
I've always said that
everyone's father
is tougher than them.
You know, it's just their life
was tougher, it was harder.
And then their grandfather.
I mean, think about--
Yeah, the difference between
you two and your parents is--
Exactly. Is world--
I mean, it's worlds apart.
Well, the difference
between us and our children,
we really had to grovel.
And it was tougher back then.
Today,
it's a whole different world.
They're presented with so much.
Not just rich people,
even poor kids.
And I mean, there's so
much technology, and that--
that I think it's really put
a damper on people's inspiration
and this ability to go out
and explore for themselves.
It comes right to you
on a phone, all this stuff.
Who is giving you
advice on what to wear
on Golden Globe night?
Definitely not him.
- Definitely not him.
- No, he's gotten better.
I get no respect,
as you can tell, okay.
I try to teach my kids,
and maybe I think he does too,
is really understand
that you are privileged.
And I just want you to be nice.
I want you to be
empathetic to people.
I want you to be polite
and understand that
you were given this gift.
It just didn't
come out of the ground.
When you see a guy
working there,
pushing a broom thing,
working on a roof,
he doesn't wanna do that.
He wasn't born to say,
"I can't wait to go
tar a roof in the summer."
So be empathetic to people
that don't have what you have.
And my girls
have been just fantastic.
And they've also--
they've picked up our habits,
and they are industrious.
They-- they imitate.
My wife is
incredibly industrious,
so my daughters have
carried on that tradition.
Our kids would not...
kind of create
that same kind of hunger...
and that desire
and that fire in the belly
that we had
because of our upbringing.
- So that only comes
with that upbringing.
Yeah.
You know,
your urge to move away,
to go and explore
and to get out of there
because you get
the beating all the time there.
So that hunger, I think,
would not be the case
with our kids.
- No.
- But...
that does not mean
that you cannot bring them up
to be successful.
I was very lucky
that I had a wife
that was really good
in raising the kids.
Maria was excellent in that.
And so I was gone
twice a year for three months,
sometimes six months
on a movie set.
So, of course,
she ended up 80% of the time,
to make up a number,
raising the kids.
And she did an extraordinary
job with the education,
with the moral codes and with
all of those kind of things.
And my kids all had
to wash their own clothes.
They all had to
wash their own bedwear.
And every so often
when I saw them cheating
and someone else did it,
I grabbed their mattresses
and I threw it off
the balcony of the bedroom.
And sometimes into the--
sometimes, you know--
- Now we're getting somewhere.
- Then the TV.
But then they have to
drag it up again and
they have to make the bed again
because I detected
they didn't make the bed.
It was too nicely made.
I just want to compliment you
for a second and just say this:
one of the things that
I learned over the years
of what great
of a family man Sly is
and how he deals
with his daughters
and with his family
and the whole thing like this.
You know, when you go up
to visit someone at their house
and you go to parties or do
dinner or something like that,
you see the dynamics
and what's going on there.
And I watch his reality TV show
and all this stuff.
Hey! Come here, little--
[bleep].
And it is
just really-- He's on it,
and he's supportive, and he's
really terrific because of that.
And he's learned
from what his father did
that he doesn't want to do.
- No.
- And does the opposite.
So I-- I think
it is really terrific.
I'm going to run for governor
of the state of California.
I've always
wanted to ask you this.
I know you supported Arnold
when he ran for governor.
- I did.
- What I'm wondering is,
did you do it so you could get
him out of the movie business?
- Yes, actually.
You read through me, did you?
Oh, my God.
I thought it was so insane,
what he did.
I said, "I gotta--
I gotta see this."
And he pulled it off.
Can you believe it?
It's just-- it's--
it's who he is.
- Did you ever have a plan B?
- No.
- As a matter of fact...
- There you go.
...in my book,
Be Useful, I talk about,
"Don't have a plan B, there's
no such thing as a plan B,"
because it's kind of
like saying,
"I want a safety net."
I'm not the safety net
kind of a guy.
It's you yourself
that is doubting you,
and that's
the most dangerous one.
Not that someone
out there is doubting you,
but that you are doubting you.
- Now you're fighting yourself.
Right.
And that is an absolute no-no.
This is a formula for disaster.
In 1987,
you went to a joint
that I used to
have breakfast at,
Patrick's Roadhouse
in Pacific Palisades.
And you had
a secret breakfast meeting
talking about
Rambo vs. Predator.
- Why didn't that happen?
- I think--
Because we've had
this happen a couple of times.
There was a John Hughes comedy,
wasn't it,
we were talking about?
Battling neighbors. Because
we couldn't agree on that.
So at that time,
it was kind of still strange.
Duke and Fluffy.
Or something like that.
- Yeah, it was like that.
- Duke and Fluffy?
Who was Fluffy?
I was supposed to be a dog
and he's supposed to be a cat.
And we're supposed to--
In the daytime,
we are regular neighbors
that hate each other.
And at night,
we are animals, you know,
and then we attack each other
and all that.
- I kind of like that.
- It was a funny idea.
But he went off doing a movie.
So it never really happened.
What do you admire
most about him?
His dedication and his passion.
I wish I could be as passionate
about things as he is.
- He's so passionate.
- Is that true?
- Really?
- Absolutely. Are you kidding me?
When you talk about scripts
or when you talk about
your characters that
you play in movies,
or when you talk about movies,
it's-- there's just
so much passion there.
I think
it's really unbelievable.
And it must come from somewhere
because, you know,
he's a very emotional guy,
which I'm not.
I'm emotional, but not like him.
You're very different,
the two of you.
Very, very different
in that way.
You can tell alone just
the way we are dressed, right?
- I mean, he has, of course--
- I wasn't gonna dress like this.
This jacket,
I guarantee you, cost $10,000
from David August
or something like that.
Who knows who made it?
Mine is like a-- a second...
That'll come back someday,
don't worry.
- ...leather jacket.
I have old cowboy boots on
and he-- Look at this,
the alligator loafers.
Everyone would agree
if there is a Mount Rushmore
of action heroes,
you have two of the four spots.
I think everybody
agrees with that.
- Who are the other two?
- Oh, wow.
That's a tough one.
What do you admire
about him most?
I'm not even finished yet
with what I admire about him.
I always have painted
my whole life, right?
For my children.
And so I painted in school,
you know,
did little paintings like that.
Then I go and see his art
and his paintings.
I tell you,
it is absolutely spectacular.
Oh, stop.
I do everything little.
Like this, I make fine lines,
and then make everything
very accurate and all this,
and he says, "No, no, no."
He says, "Arnold,
you got to be more daring.
Got to open up a little bit."
So I go up to his house,
and he has this big paintbrush
with 15 kind
of different colors,
goes in there like this,
and he starts smacking it
down on the canvas.
And I said to myself,
"Can you believe
the ba*ls this guy has?
He just makes a commitment
with all of this paint.
And then he goes,
and all of a sudden, in no time,
he creates this really colorful,
unbelievable kind of
modern type of a painting
and stuff like that."
His big paintings go
sometimes for several
hundred thousand dollars.
What I admire most about him
is he's rock steady.
He's like a season
that doesn't change.
He's like bang on, bang on.
Very organized,
very calculated,
very thoughtful.
I'm not. And he's right,
I'm very emotional.
And I tend to be swayed.
And things can
upset logic quite often.
And that's when
you make mistakes,
when your brain
overwhelms your heart,
or your heart overwhelms
your brain, I should say.
And that doesn't-- It-- He's--
I don't know what he's thinking.
Do you know what I mean?
He's like a chess player.
You don't know what's going on,
but he gets it done.
And he really does
have a big heart, he does.
I mean, you wouldn't think it,
because we're action guys,
but we're more emotional than
a lot of more dramatic actors.
Trust me,
do not think for a second
we're not hypersensitive,
especially coming from the way
where we came from.
We're very--
Especially criticism.
It's very profound on us.
Very profound.
So when you get
bad reviews, they hurt.
Oh, yeah, don't just criticize.
"Stallone's career is more
mysterious than crib death."
I mean, that's how bad it gets.
I mean, brutal.
Well, you got one where
they said you felt you got
the worst review since Hitler.
- Here you go.
- You said that.
Yeah, it's true.
- Did I really?
- Yeah, you did.
Oh, my God,
oh, my God, but it's true.
I remember when
we did The Villain
with Kirk Douglas, Ann-Margret,
they said to me,
the horse had better
facial expressions than I had,
I mean, what the hell?
- So, I pay no attention
to this stuff.
There are a lot of
differences with you guys,
what we've talked about.
The big similarity that I see
is both of you have
put your bodies through hell.
The image that I always think of
is the two of you on gurneys
getting ready for shoulder
surgery at the same time.
That was by accident.
But was this worth it
to put your body--
Because I know
that it causes pain.
You've been
in the hospital a bunch.
You've had
all sorts of operations.
You've had,
what, seven back operations?
Three neck fusion,
shoulders, every knee.
Yeah, I had endless amount
of heart surgeries.
You had back surgery.
I mean, we have our surgeries.
I have shoulder surgeries,
this shoulder, this shoulder.
You know, the knees,
both knees, hip replacement
and all that kind of stuff.
I got a lot of
injuries in this movie.
Believe me,
I was attacked by wolves.
I was attacked by vulture.
Do you ever wake up,
and just say,
"Why did I do this?"
I do, I got-- The pleasure--
As Tony Robbins, "the pleasure
was not worth the pain."
I liked doing some
of it,
but there was a point
when I should've
slowed it down and used a pro.
Apollo unloading
a left, really trying to
get him up against the ropes.
- He's-- Oh!
Rocky's things really
wiped me out from snapping
the head all the time.
Hard left, again, a hard right.
Dolph Lundgren,
you told him to hit you,
and you ended up
in the hospital for nine days.
He almost k*lled me.
Yeah.
That was a freakish accident,
just freakish.
- But you asked for it.
- I did ask for it.
But I didn't think
he'd hit so hard.
You know, [bleep].
That kind of a thing.
Like, yeah, I think I talk
to my wife every day about it.
It's absolutely
not worth it in the sense
that you don't know
when to quit.
I should have stopped right
before the first Expendables.
That's what did me in.
I never was whole
from that point on.
So it's always easy
to go and say,
"Okay, now I'm
76 years old or 77,
and I should have
not done this, done that,
because that's what hurt me,"
what does it matter?
The bottom line is,
we had a great time what we did,
we love to take risks.
You couldn't have stunt doubles,
because you were so big,
so you did
a lot of your own stuff.
Yeah, yeah, I did.
There was no choice, really,
because when I was in Spain,
there was no stunt guy around
that looked like me--
But it's all flipped now,
that you have stunt guys
who are big like you were.
But now the action heroes
- are small.
- Are small, I know, I know.
I mean, Timothe Chalamet,
Mark Ruffalo,
- Austin Butler.
I know.
Everyone would agree
if there is a Mount Rushmore
of action heroes,
you have two of the four spots.
I think everybody
agrees with that.
Who are the other two?
Oh, wow. That's a tough one.
I would put Clint on it.
Clint Eastwood
was always my hero,
my inspiration.
He was one of those guys just
like Reg Park in bodybuilding
that spent time with me
and talked to me.
The fourth guy,
you have to come up with.
I already came up with one.
I think it goes to Bruce.
He's a very multifaceted guy.
He can do drama and comedy,
whatever, and all the same.
But he was in quite a few
seminal action films
that really--
Like, Die Hard is a classic,
and those things don't go away.
I'm a friend of Sarah Connor.
Can't see her.
She's making a statement.
I'll be back.
What's Arnold's legacy?
Well, being
the all-time triple threat.
He came, he saw, he conquered.
That's it, really simple.
It's not original,
but it's true.
What's his legacy?
Someone that did some of
the most extraordinary movies.
Nothing is over! Nothing!
You just don't turn it off!
And inspired
endless amount of people
to get in the movie business,
and to be writers
and directors and actors.
Yeah.
His shirt maker makes a shirt
that has it pulled
underneath like diapers,
and then pulled up
on the other end.
I have to tell you guys...
you kind of changed my life.
Because both of you...
are so inspirational
when it comes to risk-taking.
And you--
Just the idea that you so
believed in what you were doing
that you were willing
not to sell Rocky
if it wasn't on your terms,
and you stuck by that.
And just all the things you did
that seemed so improbable,
that you came to the
United States with 20 bucks.
And I knew about this
early on in my career,
and it inspired me,
and it made me work harder,
and it made me determined.
And this is such an honor.
And I mean that.
And I thank you so much
for sitting with me and talking,
it means the world to me.
- Well, thank you.
That's very nice.
- Thank you.
I bet any money Harvey
is not ready for this interview.
- He's not ready?
- No. No.
.
- I guarantee you.
I'm tired
of working with amateurs.
You guys
did a good job.
- Oh, thank you.
We're gonna exchange pacemakers.
It'll be great.
Now Arnold and Sly's
medical show.
Here we go.
Oh, that's a good idea.
- Autopsies.
Is this the other jacket
he wanted to put on, Jennifer?
Oh, God. Let me see
if it's David August.
He's breaking my ba*ls.
'Cause you feel like
dressing like the--
It is David August.
What did I say?
On the show, David August.
Oh, my God, you were right.
You even knew his designer.
That's hysterical.
Feel this.
Cashmere shirt, cashmere jacket.
No, khullu. Get it right.
Oh, my God, you got that to Sly?
- This is unbelievable.
I'm telling you.
- It's better than cashmere.
Sly has nicer clothes
than me, so...
Yeah, he has definitely
nicer clothes than all of us.
Look at this.
So I go to visit his set.
So then he goes, and he says,
"Arnold, I don't like when
your shirts are baggy here."
So I said, "What am I
gonna do about it?"
He said, "Sometimes when you
go like this, it pulls out."
Then he said
"Come with me."
He goes in his dressing room,
in his trailer,
and he pulls down his pants.
His shirt has something
that goes underneath his crotch
to keep the shirt pulled down.
Who thinks about this?
When he sat down,
that's why you said that.
Who thinks about this?
I just ordered another dozen.
He has-- His shirt maker
makes a shirt
that has it pulled underneath.
It's like diapers.
And then pulled up
on the other end
so the shirt stays down,
because God forbid
you're doing a movie and
there's a wrinkle in the shirt.
As if that is not natural.
Magic's in the details, pal.
So this is what goes on here.
Unless you wanna hold
my tails down here, pal.
Mr. Cashmere.
And look at the shoes.
Look at the alligator [bleep],
the loafers.
- All right, man.
- All right, thank you, guys.
I feel sorry for you.
Goodbye. See you.
That was so great.
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Arnold & Sly: Rivals, Friends, Icons (2024)
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