I always worked
with the same components.
Sky, sun, sand, girl, swimsuit.
Those five things
happened every year.
The magazine reaches
70 million adults each year.
Jule Campbell is
the Swimsuit's founding editor.
She oversaw every issue
between 1965 and 1996.
Let's get her jacket off.
-Walter. Wait.
-What?
-You wait till she works it.
-Okay.
Because
this is kind of a dock jacket.
It's really important.
How tight are you sh**ting?
-I'm getting full body.
-Good.
That's not the way you wear
one of those jackets, though.
You're looking
at one of the most profitable
ventures in publishing.
No, not a picture of her bum,
but a picture
where you see her bum.
-No.
-You don't want that?
No. I think the way
she's doing it,
three quarters, a little cover.
The rest will-- I got all the
-NOW feminist women after me.
-Okay.
And I'm already
going straight to hell.
But amidst
the setting of serene water,
there's been a storm of protest
from anti-p*rn*graphy groups.
I'm taking the brunt
for the others
whose magazines expose
a great deal more than we do.
The woman who lives
in this historic farmhouse
in rural New Jersey
is a cook, a gardener,
a grandmother,
and the creator of one of
the most controversial icons
of American pop culture,
the annual Sports Illustrated
Swimsuit Issue.
I am happy
that I never had a boring life.
A lot of struggles,
but struggles are good.
If you survive them,
you're a stronger.
Fight for what
you really want.
It wasn't easy working
as a woman in Time Inc.
The 1986, '87 and '88
cover model, Elle MacPherson.
She was such a powerhouse
with these guys.
Just to go into the all-boys
club at Sports Illustrated,
especially at that time.
It was run by men for men.
She came in
with a voice and an opinion,
and she stood her ground
and she never really got
the credit that she deserved.
Footballs were flying
through the air,
and she was being
sexually harassed
and making a lot less money.
And then, meanwhile,
guess who creates
the billion-dollar franchise.
Beauty is
in the beholder's eye.
So, if someone finds this
terribly sexy, that's okay.
But I haven't exploited her.
People are like,
oh, it's gratuitous.
That's because they
didn't know the whole picture.
Women who support women?
Women who see
the beauty in women?
Why would you not
want to support them?
She changed my life.
That issue
is seen by an estimated
50 million people every year,
one third of them women.
That might not be
what you'd expect.
But then again, Jule Campbell
is not
what you'd expect either.
If you respect beauty,
you've nourished your soul.
Oh, my God.
This is how I feel.
Like an editor again.
That's Cheryl.
This is a good one.
There are just so many things
you can do on a beach
and so many poses.
And there's something
a little special to it.
Yes. Yes.
I wasn't into
the obviously sexy,
which made it even sexier
that you weren't.
There's so much smut out there
that to see a really kind of...
semi-naked but clean,
you really wanna keep it.
I love this one.
It's so modern.
The hard thing for me
working for a sports magazine
is all the editors were guys.
And when I showed the pictures,
I would have
the managing editor there,
and he could salivate
while he looked at them.
Sometimes I'd wanna do this.
And they wanted
the sexiest pictures.
And I would take them out
so they'd never even see them,
because I thought
it would cheapen the woman.
This is not usable.
Go in the bad pile.
And they didn't care if they
cheapened the woman at all.
But I did.
These are grown men
with children, little boys.
You have to tell me
about this documentary.
It's gonna be
about you and your life.
- That's very ambitious.
- Do you like the idea?
Yeah, I'm astounded.
I wouldn't even be here to say,
"No. That didn't
really happen that way."
I'd love to hear
what you would like to do,
because I'm a pretty
good visionary.
I've kind of helped
a lot of people
that said,
"I never thought of that."
That's kind of why
I'm doing what I do.
It's kind
of unveiling tragedy...
- Yeah.
- ...and unveiling happiness.
You need to look at
other people's lives to learn.
What is the true meaning
of documentary?
Ooh, that's a good question.
"Documentary: dealing freely
with historical events,
especially of a recent
and controversial nature."
Nobody uses
a dictionary anymore.
No.
Yes.
Wow. Okay.
Is that a Tyra one?
Oh, my God. It is.
Christie.
I wonder if this is Africa.
So, her career, I don't
think she ever thought of it
as a business.
She wasn't trying to create
the most successful magazine
in publishing history.
I really wanted
to be an artist.
My parents dissuaded me.
They said I could be
an art teacher.
And that did not appeal to me.
So, I went
to journalism school.
But I majored in advertising
so I could use my art.
She never
talked about money.
She didn't like
talking about money.
But she was driven
by her aesthetics,
the beauty
she perceived in people,
nature,
clothes,
objects.
Sea glass, for example.
She would collect things
of no value.
These are just doodles.
I'm in the garden room
looking out.
"What does the heart see
that the eye doesn't or can't?"
Can you move that
water thing? It's in the shot.
Would Jule Campbell from SI
want the Pyrex in the shot?
No. The cleaner the better.
So you know
what your subject is.
Everyone thinks differently,
I think, when they're filming
because they're seeing
and then they're trying
to get it down
so other people can see it.
But I think filming
is very personal,
and it doesn't have
to mean anything
as long as you enjoy doing it.
You were
sort of in the first wave
of independent women
after the w*r
who were making their own
way out in the workplace.
What was your first job
after school?
Marketing consultants
called Amos Parrish.
I said, "I want to be
in your fashion office. "
And he said, "Most of the women
in our fashion office
haven't been to college.
He said, "Do you think they're
gonna take you by the hand
to teach you?"
So, I said, "Well, you know,
how can I get ahead?"
And he said, "Go and work in
a store and learn retailing."
And that's why I got
the job at Glamour.
They said, "Well, we see you
have your retailing experience.
This is your first course
in preparing for an office job.
You're starting a new career.
The big job was filing.
I've never filed in my life.
The woman
I was working for said,
"If you read everything
that goes into this file,
you'll know more about this
magazine than anyone else."
So, I started going into
the office on Saturdays.
From that point, it seems like
every six months,
I had a nice promotion.
There was a long corridor,
and I was in an office here.
But over here
was the fashion office
that I always wanted
to get into
because they were the ones
who worked
with the famous photographers
and the models and so forth.
Betty Downey was
the fashion editor of Glamour.
And I guess she'd been
watching me, and she said,
"I want that girl
in my department."
I eventually became
accessories editor.
You told me once
that you worked
with Andy Warhol at Glamour.
Yeah. When I knew him,
he was just coming up.
Do you like to talk about it?
Yeah, I'm comfortable with it.
How did you get started
at Sports Illustrated?
How did I get started
at Sports Illustrated?
Oh, my God.
That seems
like a thousand years ago.
It's like, "When did you have
your first buggy ride?"
Well, I remember
when I was at Conde Nast,
we were in a bar one night,
and everyone was talking about
this new sports magazine
that was coming out.
And, you know,
in a hundred years,
I never thought
I would end up there.
Fred hired me
right on the spot.
One interview,
and we just clicked.
He was tough on me. You know,
he made me cry sometimes.
You were a reporter
within Smith's fashion section?
Yes. We did menswear,
womenswear,
we did vacation houses
and so forth.
Very often, on ski stories,
we went together.
You go to the best.
The best source,
you go to the best hotel,
you get the best guide.
And those are the kind
of things I learned from him.
Winning his respect is
probably one of the highlights
of my career.
I started, I guess,
by covering football games.
What are you supposed to wear
if you're an elegant woman,
and it's November?
Oh, you don't have to be
that bright to know.
Number one,
you bring a blanket.
Number two,
you wear something warm.
Number three,
you might have a little, uh,
a little bottle of hooch
to warm you up.
I don't feel I was a woman
ahead of my time
because there were fashion
magazines all over the place.
I was tired of
fashion magazines.
So, you go out
and find something else.
You gotta do
what interests you.
And then you hit on something
that's like a new roadway.
It's amazing
how things happen, isn't it?
How long
were you there for?
In Sports illustrated?
I worked 60 years.
The '60s, the '70s, '80s,
the '90s, the aughts.
I mean, they were just nonstop.
I was freelance.
I was contract. I was staff.
I went through, you know,
a lot of phases up there.
That could have been the tennis.
Jule Campbell's sporting look.
That was my test sh**t.
My first recollection
is when she hired me
to do tennis fashion.
I guess she was breaking me in.
It was just to be able
to recognize talent, or humor.
People who had adventure
in their background.
I found sports people
were not phonies.
I mean, she'd use
other sports photographers,
but there were no girls
in my portfolio.
I look back, I mean,
I don't even know
how many women I shot
as athletes.
In the beginning,
Jule did a ski story.
She would kind of audition
the models.
How are they gonna be to travel
with? What are they like?
She really looked for, like,
who the person is,
and can she connect with them?
Billy Kidd.
Oh, my God. I'm not a skier.
You can see that quickly.
So, Jule asked me
if I could ski, and I said yes.
I didn't tell Jule
I had only skied once,
but I thought, "You know what?
I'll go and I can do it."
We get to the top
of this mountain.
The photographer,
sports photographer...
Because of course
that's who she would hire.
...was gonna ski along with me.
And very quickly, as I nearly
took him out, he's like,
"How about we just photograph
Kathy holding the skis?"
But, my goodness, what I wasn't
prepared for was Jule Campbell.
What an education.
Experiencing this dynamic,
brilliant, strong woman
in a world that was
really dominated by men.
And I was in a world
that was dominated
by a lot of men who were of
kind of sketchy character.
It was a world
that didn't feel safe.
And I know
I would not have stayed
in that industry as long
as I had if not for Jule.
She always missed the farm.
The trees
that were so meaningful,
that represented her parents.
The memories
that she had there.
She fought so hard just,
you know,
to always keep
and protect that farm.
Feels like a good
beach wedding dress.
- Beautiful.
- Yeah.
Do I just put
my right foot back up,
or do I bring them
together first?
Because, look, I'm doing this.
And then do I just do this?
That doesn't seem right.
So, I do this.
Maybe another time
when you come,
we can take
the Christmas tree down.
Or at this point,
just leave it there.
It's only six months
till Christmas.
There's something...
So, like, when we go back...
It's too bad youth
doesn't appreciate...
being the way she is now
because she won't be
like that in even 10 years.
Gotta enjoy every age.
Make sure you do
all the twirling. That's good.
Yeah. You don't have to twirl.
Marriage is not easy.
I don't care how much
you love each other.
You're realistic.
It's a give-and-take share.
-Yeah.
-It's a big step.
I have to thank your mother
for keeping this a family
after they broke up.
I know. It's very nice.
And I'm also glad you aren't
just a kid. You're 30.
-I was 30 when I was married.
-I think it's good.
Well, call me
if you want the shoulder.
-I got two of them.
-Okay, I will.
-I don't want to leave you.
-God bless you.
-You're not leaving me.
-I know.
-I've got the phone right here.
-That's true.
Bye, mother of the bride.
-You're gonna cry.
-I'm gonna cry for sure.
You are gonna cry.
That's why when
I say goodbye to people...
Because I always think
that might be the last one.
But I don't say anything.
I just think it.
How did you meet Ronnie?
Fire Island.
I was with a bunch of people
from Glamour magazine
and he was
with Fortune magazine.
We danced together weekends.
I wasn't madly
in love with him.
I thought he was a snob.
You ended up
marrying him.
Yeah.
I wasn't in a hurry
to get married, no.
I didn't like that feeling of,
"you're mine now.
You don't do anything
without going through me."
It didn't sit well.
Will you look at the waistline?
My mother made my dress.
After the ceremony,
the best men rocked the car.
It was a blue Buick. And
they rocked it and rocked it.
I get very disturbed
when I think of this.
I don't remember
a lot of things of Ronnie.
Thank you, too.
Have to figure out
how many years he's gone.
We were the same age.
I wonder why he had to die
so much earlier than me.
You know, it's like it came
and went quickly.
Let's talk about
the history of this
at Sports Illustrated.
It's somewhat of a tradition
at this magazine
to do an issue
on bathing suits.
It started in 1964.
In those days,
we didn't have Super Bowl yet.
The last football game
was on Christmas
or it was on New Year's.
And the magazine was very thin.
And it was before baseball,
after football.
Sports Illustrated didn't
make money for 10 years.
Started to make money...
Believe it or not,
the whole magazine did.
...with the arrival
of Swimsuit Issue.
Andre Laguerre was the second
managing editor of the magazine.
He took the magazine
from nowhere
and created a form to it.
Andre was more
of a renaissance man.
He was a sports nut,
but he wasn't a jock.
He did a story on Proust.
There was bridge
in the magazine.
So, it was much more involved
with things other than sweat.
The writer James Michener said
the only American magazine
that was better written
than Sports Illustrated
was the New Yorker.
And it became
the quintessential
middle-class magazine
of post-w*r America.
And Andre Laguerre,
a completely visionary editor
who understood
how magazines would work.
Everybody
was terrified of him.
I was too,
but not that terrified
because I knew he liked me.
You know, you could tell.
Me being, you know,
like, 22 or something
and getting the elevator
with Laguerre was like...
He may have said hello to me,
I'm not sure.
And then, you know, after lunch,
everybody been
putting down the sauce.
It was just like, you know,
the old New York lunches
you've seen in shows
like Mad Men.
Not a lot of things
got done after three o' clock.
We're talking about a time
where there's men chasing women
around desks.
Laguerre wasn't like that.
Laguerre recognized
in Campbell this spirit,
but she also had
this veneer of toughness.
And he sort of
took her under his wing.
And one fall day in 1964,
he calls his young assistant,
fashion editor Jule Campbell
into his office and says,
"Jule, my dear, how would you
like to go someplace beautiful
and put a pretty girl
on the cover?"
I went to California
because I thought we should use
more natural kinds of women.
California,
they're bigger and healthier
and look more like beach girls.
That was in the days of Twiggy.
Everyone
was really, really skinny.
When she appeared on the cover,
it caused quite a sensation.
Middle America
just lost its mind.
They made a big thing
out of nothing.
And that's how it got started.
That the cover
had to be something sexy
that's gonna catch your eye.
There was nothing sexy about it
except it had cutouts.
You had hundreds
of letters coming in saying,
"Who is this Sue Peterson?
She's wonderful.
I wanna marry her."
One writer wrote
nudity was as dangerous
to our country
as the atom b*mb.
With those two polarized,
very measured responses,
Laguerre and Jule Campbell
knew they were onto something.
And then I found this.
These are
all very early pictures.
The beginning
of the swimsuit story.
One of the things
that made it work was
I didn't have makeup people,
I didn't have hair people.
If a model got a sunburn,
we photographed it.
That looked natural.
It was news.
The element of surprise in any
kind of merchandising
and so forth,
is what everybody tries to do.
It was a phenomenon
because it sold
twice as many magazines
when I put one of my models
on the cover.
A woman in a swimsuit
is hard to beat,
no matter
what kind of athlete you are.
This was a time where,
as pro football is growing,
advertisers are becoming aware
that sports fans,
which previously had been
sort of this
undesirable audience,
was actually
an upwardly mobile,
attractive audience.
It was a total
male-dominated universe.
And yet the one lady
over there in the corner
in this little small office
with swimsuits
hanging all over the place
did the one issue of the year
that generated a lot of money.
Men ran the world
and the staff
and that was the way it was.
You know, it's like...
It wasn't easy for her.
My whole kind of theory
in showing sexy pictures,
I didn't like lewdness.
I found it not attractive,
and I didn't feel
it represented me.
And I think the public
respected that.
What is lewd?
Lewd is bad taste to me
because how can
you make nudity lewd...
unless it's up here?
Because nudity
is quite beautiful.
What do you think
about these new
topless bathing suits?
I suppose
if I saw everybody else
wearing them, I'd wear one.
But you'd get picked up
for indecent exposure.
-But otherwise,
you don't object?
-Oh, no, not at all.
Men walk around with only
one half a bathing suit on.
Why shouldn't I?
On that very first story
that I did for Andre,
there's also a story by
Liz Smith, "The Nudity Cult."
Rudi Gernreich wasn't
in Jule's first Swimsuit Issue.
He understood about fun and
liberation of the female body.
Not for the male gaze,
but for the woman herself.
That was the mood
of the moment.
I think a girl would have to go
pretty low to wear such a thing.
I think men won't have
respect for any girl at all,
whether she's good or bad.
It'd be going back
to the caveman days.
Women are always
under the microscope
and we're always being judged
by what we wear
and what we should have worn.
And it's just, here we are,
in one of our most revealing
and natural
and raw versions
of ourselves in a swimsuit.
And people
are going to dissect that.
I think I was very pretty.
But, you know,
I never felt pretty.
I never slept
with any of my boyfriends.
And it was
because I was afraid of sex.
I was raised with the nuns.
You didn't even say
the word "sex."
But I did slide a little bit.
Sliding's good.
I was a bad girl.
That's great.
Is there a line
between modesty and immodesty
that you draw on?
People should know
I'm censoring
while we're working.
Believe me.
I strive
to take beautiful pictures,
and that's why our locations
are so important.
If we were taking
girly pictures,
we could do that in the studio.
She was very interested
in the composition
of the photography.
That it was more
like a fashion story
than it was a sort of gratuitous
"girl on the beach" story.
She captured spirits.
And yes, it was encased
in these beautiful locations
and bodies.
And it wasn't about
the very overt sexuality
that we're seeing today.
She loved giving people a start.
Jule Campbell called me,
and she said,
"We got your suits,
and we love them
and we're gonna take them
on our sh**t with us."
Holy cow, what's happening?
Jule's like,
"Let's really try
to make this suit sell
because it'll really help her
with her career."
You know,
banks would talk to us,
fabric suppliers
would talk to us,
big stores would talk to us.
We couldn't really
tell our story ourselves
because we didn't have
social media.
You know,
it kickstarted everything
to have someone like that say,
"Your work means something."
I feel like you had
a career that most women envy.
Eh?
Sorry.
Eh?
I can't hear you.
I'm not helping you, am I?
No, it's good.
It's awesome.
Oh, God.
Why don't I tell you a story
about how it feels
to be getting old?
Yes.
-Really?
-Yeah.
I wanna know.
I wanna know
what's in front of me.
-Cheers.
-Here's to old age.
It's a hoax.
It's what you make it, kid.
It's not always in the glass.
I think old age can be cruel.
And it can be beautiful.
It's funny when you get
near the end of your life.
I used to wonder
what my mother was thinking.
And now that I look back on it,
I don't think
she was thinking of anything
because
she was losing her memory.
But I'm not
in that kind of old age.
I'm surprised
I still have fight in me.
And that's good.
Hi, Mom.
Hi.
Ninety-five?
My God, am I that old, Jill?
Look how peaceful
it is down there.
You guys
will be sitting out here
maybe next year,
reminiscing about this year
and where I was.
And I'll be saying,
"Don't you dare forget me."
Jill. I'm somewhere
between crying and happy.
Life is all too short.
It comes, it stays, it goes.
This is called an iPhone.
And they keep making
these cameras better and better.
Without all
the bunch of equipment.
Exactly.
That's called the doggy pose.
I'd say, "No doggy pose."
Photographer
always tried to do it.
Because I used to hear the guys
talk about the pictures
and the doggy pose.
-I really didn't like it.
-It's kind of demeaning.
Yes, very.
That's Cheryl Tiegs.
America's first supermodel.
This is her Instagram.
Oh, Jule.
That's me?
Look at how lively I was.
I always thought of myself
as strolling through life.
He literally
is doing flips for you guys.
That's funny.
Kourken.
I had a little fling with him.
These photographers
are pretty sexy.
You said it, not me.
I rarely stop smiling.
Happy little thing.
It was a long time ago when
we started Sports Illustrated.
And I don't mean
to jump on board,
but Jule and I
kind of became a team.
I was in on it
from the beginning.
And my first cover,
we were on the boat going home.
I was cold, so Jule put on
this long-sleeved bathing suit.
I put my sunglasses on.
Jay Maisel was taking pictures.
He said,
"Take your sunglasses off.
Take your sunglasses off."
I said, "No, I'm tired.
I don't want my picture taken."
And they put that on the cover.
That was me, a real person.
I wasn't a model
at that moment.
I felt very comfortable
that it was a female
because it is
a very vulnerable situation.
And I had the confidence
and the security
to do what I had to do.
The powerful position
she put herself in, my God.
In 1965,
Jule featured a model
in a net swimsuit
with a flesh-tone lining.
Now, I understand
that's not even real flesh.
But the reaction
was utter shock.
And then, in 1978,
readers really had something
to be shocked about
when Cheryl Tiegs
appeared in the real thing.
Oh.
Well, you're not gonna
bring up the white fishnet.
I mean, can I... How do I
not bring up the white fishnet?
The white fishnet
was a throwaway shot.
A picture you wouldn't
even wanna show anyone.
Taken on a miserable afternoon
in the middle of nowhere
in the Amazon.
We were in Manaus.
It was awful light.
Then I went up to Cheryl,
and because the light was bad,
I said, "Would you please
get wet?"
Because I thought
if her skin glistened,
we'd get some highlights.
Getting the suit wet
was what made it so see-through.
Before, it was
just a bunch of cotton.
It wasn't, "I'll see more
if the suit's wet."
I edit all my own pictures.
And I always edited them
with Walter.
And we pick out what we think
are the best pictures
and that's what we sell.
And we went through the slides
and put them in order
to try to keep
the interest going.
And we put that
as the last slide in the tray.
It was kind of,
"Okay, wake up."
And they printed it.
Everyone knew SI then.
Cheryl became a megastar.
It just exploded.
It changed the world.
The simplicity, I think, of just
a girl walking on the beach
in a bathing suit like that
was... I don't know.
I don't know.
It's not my favorite shot.
It wasn't just
that there was
a beautiful woman
with visible breasts in the
pages of Sports Illustrated.
It was a beautiful woman
that Sports Illustrated readers
felt like they knew.
It was Cheryl freaking Tiegs.
I mean, it was controversial.
You could see anatomy,
which, I think,
even at that time, which wasn't
like such a foreign idea,
I think it was a foreign idea
in mainstream media.
It was used
in an artistic way
to say, "We don't care
about your boundaries."
It wasn't
to turn you on breasts.
They're so political.
You barely can't even
see a nipple. But...
It was the first.
You're that scared of boobs,
you better put your head
in the sand.
Like, honestly...
Honestly, though,
news flash, we all have n*pples.
Except, mine do something.
Half the population's doesn't.
Scary.
You've never seen
a nipple before?
It's true, though.
It comes down to that.
Hey, h*
Beauty pageants gotta go
Jule used to get death threats.
They had people in front
of the Time and Life building
picketing.
Join us now!
Swimsuits in a sports magazine
is presenting us with an image
that's impossible to live up to.
And that's very degrading
and demeaning.
The role that you have selected
for women is degrading to women
because you choose to see women
as sex objects,
not as full human beings.
-Well, obviously, it's--
-Hold on, now. The day that--
I wanna say--
I haven't finished.
The day that you are willing
to come out here
with a cotton tail
attached to your rear end...
Some people would
consider it nothing more than
soft-core porn.
No. We feel
it's done in good taste.
I guess, Jule,
we do know that sex sells,
doesn't it?
If I felt sex sells,
then I wouldn't work on this.
I'm a career woman.
I'm a mother.
It seems
to be merely an excuse
to show flesh. Come on, Jule.
There has been
some criticism that
what you're doing is
taking advantage of females
the way some
of the magazines that are sold
that are very
much more explicit about sex.
I censor it very carefully.
And I care if a feminist
calls me and says,
"Oh, well, you're selling out."
I'm not selling out.
It would be much easier
to photograph them unclothed.
To make it attractive
and appealing
and still keep it
in the realm of good taste
I think is the reason
it has been successful.
Dear Jule,
you should get a bonus.
Thank you for making
a cold winter bearable.
Can hardly
wait for the letters.
We got thousands
of people
wanting to cancel
their subscriptions
or say I was a perv
or something.
I didn't know this for a while.
At the bar with Andre,
they used to make bets
on how many cancellations.
Tiegs has no class left.
You should be ashamed.
- I was disgusted.
- Smut.
When I want Playboy,
I'll buy Playboy.
The powers that be
at Sports Illustrated
are overwhelmingly
male and white.
You're talking about
hegemonic masculinity here.
And they were looking
to attract that coveted
18 to 34 age demographic.
There was a very
fair question to be asked.
Why are we looking
at swimsuit models
in what is supposed to be
a news magazine
devoted to sports?
Doctoral theses have been
written on that very subject.
The objectification.
There's no question about that.
Right?
You have females in a magazine
that are being consumed.
And that was
what made women feel
that other women
were being exploited.
The masculine gaze.
But the swimsuit
was a subversive item.
When they first started wearing
swimsuits in the 1920s,
the patriarchy in America
didn't like it.
So, everyone's got to step back
and really accept the freedom
of expression happening.
Jule was part of that.
And she had
to push some boundaries.
We are all beautiful
human beings, all of us.
So, take a picture of it.
You know?
Women should do
what they wanna do,
but don't do it with anger.
Do it really quiet,
maybe a little sneaky. Why not?
So long as it's not dishonest.
Just be kind of mysterious.
Something comes up and you say,
"I'm gonna think about that.
I'll hold on that."
You don't have to tell everybody
what you're thinking,
who you are,
or why you did what you did.
I was reading the
Michael Gross book on models.
He all but credits
the beginning
of the supermodel era
to Cheryl Tiegs
in that '78 Swimsuit Issue.
Jule really is responsible
for the supermodel.
Jule wanted to know,
who is this person?
And she even
included the names
and gave the women an identity.
We have always recognized
the name of the girl.
So they become personalities
more than models or mannequins.
Models were hangers.
Models were a prop
to put the clothing on.
Jule wrote those captions
mentioning the models by name.
And so the readers
started to feel like
they knew some of those models.
She didn't
wanna objectify women.
She wanted to make them people.
She was setting us up
for a future of being
a person of clout,
putting our names in there
first and last.
That's what it did.
Jule wanted that.
A high-fashion model
doesn't mean
that everybody knows
your name.
It means that everybody
in the fashion industry
knows your name.
I knew that when Jule called me
and said I was going to be
on the cover of this magazine,
I knew that everybody in America
would know my name.
I started to already think, "How
can I apply this to a business?"
Because, you know,
being on the cover
and having this adulation
is one thing.
But how can I translate that
into a way
that I can become
financially independent,
that I can start to command the
work that I actually want to do?
I was dreaming about being
on the other side of the lens.
Working with Jule
truly helped me get there.
They became
so much more capable
to, like, take that name
and build brands around it
and build lives around it
and impact others around it.
Bet your bottom dollar.
Cheryl's billings
multiplied exponentially,
and she wound up
on the cover of Time later.
Then I found Christie.
I spoke to the man who wrote
the Sports Illustrated book,
and he sent me the tapes
of when
he was interviewing Jule.
So, this is Jule
talking about meeting you.
I just found her by chance.
I was in California,
passing through LA,
and I called Nina Blanchard,
and I said, "Do you have anyone
known?"
And when Christie walked in,
I was blown away.
I had just done
my first big sh**t in Paris.
And then they decided to give
me the haircut of the moment.
They chopped off my hair
and gave me a perm.
I didn't know
what to do with this hair.
So, I bought a bunch of berets,
and I just stuck
the whole thing in my beret.
So, now here I am in LA,
and I'm asked to go meet
Jule Campbell.
She was as cute as could be.
You know, I thought
she looks like Miss California
or Miss Sunkist Orange.
Just exuded health
and had these Mary Blue eyes.
And I booked her
for that story in Cancun.
She said that
she remembered me
because I was the girl
in the beret.
Look at this. I look like
one of the Marx Brothers.
The message is that sometimes
it's the things
that make you most insecure
are the things that make you
the most memorable.
So, be you and get discovered.
My body was pretty bodacious.
It wasn't like a model's body,
which was my big insecurity
because I didn't think
I looked like a skinny model.
She felt like
it was inspirational
for women to feel like,
"I wanna take care of myself,"
but she really
was pushing the athletic part.
And they took me out
on this red dirt road.
And I remember feeling like,
I'm running like an athlete
for Sports Illustrated.
I was really trying
to emphasize the run.
So, that made me not feel
so self-conscious about it
was to be strong.
She wasn't looking
for perfection.
She was looking
for some sort of energy.
The mixture of athletic
and sexy
to the perfect degree
that she did it
created a real niche.
Christie was a natural.
That's about the only model
I've ever worked with
who did her first sitting
and she could do no wrong
in front of the camera.
She just moved...
She did everything right.
And she worked for us...
One, two, three, four...
It was five years
before she got a cover.
And then she got three
in a row, and she was made.
Thank you.
Jule would take off
and do her thing
for four or five weeks
in the fall,
deliver the pictures to Andre
and d*ck Gangel,
the art director.
And it was like an 8 or 10-page
section in the magazine
for a very long time.
Roy Terrell
succeeded Andre in 1972.
Terrell leaves
in '79. And Rogin starts.
I went into his office one day,
and I said,
"Would you write a letter
for me?
I want it
from the managing editor.
It's to Carol Alt.
Will you ask her
to put weight on
and tell her I'm not gonna
use her
if she doesn't.
Time marches on.
Yeah, unfortunately.
Can you remember it all?
I remember a lot of it.
In the very beginning,
when I was so young,
my father and mother,
they were worried.
So, Jule wanted me
to wear this G-string.
And I was like,
"It's like being naked.
I can't wear that G-string.
I just can't do it."
And Jule's like,
"Okay, no worries.
I want you in something
you're comfortable in."
Then, when the magazine
came out,
there was Christie Brinkley
with just the G-string.
And I thought,
"That looks so beautiful."
And never again
did I ever deny Jule
a suit that she wanted
to put on me.
Gonna do an orange suit now
and then a white suit.
Because there's a white rim
of light where the surface...
The best part was when
we had to change on the beach.
And Jule would
stand around you with towels.
The suit came down,
the other suit went up.
The gutter
of the center of the page
will run right through
her shoulder
and through her bosom here.
Now Walter and I are gonna have
a conference over that.
She worked all year
to do this.
We burst through
this forest to a shoreline.
And there was this boat painted
the rainbow colors of my suit.
I was like, how did she know?
Four o'clock in the morning.
That boat, my suit, this guy.
Like it was...
We used to call them
"the coffins."
Ten, 15 giant coffins
of bathing suits.
And she would try the suits
and try the suits
and try the suits.
...to have a very subtle color.
I haven't come to it yet.
-You said this looked great.
-That looked beautiful on her.
Because she looked at you.
She looked at your personality.
She looked at your body and
said, "Okay, no, not that one."
And sometimes,
"What do you mean?
Oh, I should look good
in everything.
I'm a model. I'm a model."
-Thank you.
-I'm very proud of you.
Thank you.
I sound like a mother.
And I am a mother.
Listen, you've been my mother
for almost 40 years.
-Or like my mother.
-Very happy for you, honey.
So, I'll come back
and visit.
Oh, my God.
I'm just trying
to open the door a little.
Mom, let's
binge-watch Hoarders tonight.
I can't hear you, Bruce.
-But maybe that's just as well.
-A show on TV called Hoarders,
where the authorities
come and declutter it for you.
I mean,
I'm just throwing out...
You don't need this old
AARP advertisement.
You're not throwing
that away, are you?
-No. This is your box.
-Oh.
Your special box.
I was an only child, you know,
and I spent a lot of time alone.
So, anything like that
that I kept,
I save it just for that memory.
One little snapshot.
One moment.
Did Bruce ask you to do this?
No, I offered to do it
because I'm tired of--
Because I want the house
to be unclogged. Do you mind?
It's...
It's very different feeling
seeing other people
going through your stuff.
No, I'm saying,
do you wanna look at this?
I'm not getting rid of it.
A lot of people made fun of me
because I was sentimental,
but I didn't let it get to me.
I feel like I just died. That's
why we're cleaning it out.
-You did. And you're in...
-What?
You're in heaven.
I'm in heaven? This is heaven?
-You're in hoarder's heaven.
-Okay.
Throw it out?
-Mm-hm.
-Okay.
I'd just as soon have you do it,
than anyone, Jill.
Aw.
Actually,
it's a really good shot of him.
It's just like he got
a really good shot of you
walking in the bushes,
which is really nice.
It's called B-roll.
Can we do one more of those?
All right. Turn around
and walk up to the porch,
and then I'll meet you up there.
So, is it weird that I'm doing
this documentary?
I think, uh...
I'm grateful. And...
There's admiration, respect.
The only thing is,
I need my fact checker.
That would be you
since you know more
about my mother than I do.
It's a surprising amount
I don't know.
Because she kept me
out of that life.
And I didn't seek to be in it.
She was hardly around.
When she came home,
she didn't talk about work.
All I really cared about
was getting something to eat.
How did having a baby
change things for you?
I would do that differently.
I went back to work
after seven weeks.
I would spend more time
with my baby.
I have that guilt to live with.
-Do you feel guilty?
-Because I can't remember.
I'd come home at night,
and I was tired,
and someone else
had bathed my baby.
Someone else had fed the baby.
And I missed taking him
to school.
Who's that?
You tell me. This is your life.
- This is what we'd do.
- That's your dad.
The one with the long,
floppy hair must be me.
Look at Brucey.
Nonna. Oh, Nonno.
I know when Bruce
was born, my mother took over.
It was like her baby.
When I was very young,
I missed her
when she was gone all the time.
I had a support system
which included four au pairs.
So, there was Edna,
the first one.
I later had Puluv,
crazy Russian,
who thought
it would toughen me up
to eat poison ivy and get
soaking wet in the rain.
And then Greta, the bad one,
who used to throw things at me
and beat me.
And then Erica, the sweet one.
Did your mom know that
that woman beat you?
Only when I told them.
And then they fired her.
Whenever I went on a trip,
I cooked for a whole week.
That's not the same
as having your mother's
arms around you.
And I see this because I see
how my son
is raising his children.
And I even say that
to my husband.
I say, we weren't like that.
She did talk
quite a bit about Bruce
and was a little unsure
if she had done
all she should have as a mom.
And you know what? That's a kind
of a crap thing to put on women,
because what about Dad?
It's like, why are we
supposed to be guilty
for not being enough
around our kids?
When I had my kids,
she didn't want me to work.
Now I understand her better.
I was so angry
when she was like that with me.
To this day, it's f*cking hard
to be a woman
who's trying to balance
motherhood with a decent career.
We are supposed
to make a choice,
while men can have both.
Right?
Because
a woman does all the work.
I hated parents
that pushed their children.
And I never pushed Bruce,
but Bruce pushed himself.
He was always president
of the class or whatever.
And he got into Harvard
without a problem.
And I don't know
why he pushed himself.
He wanted to be the best
something, I think.
Yeah, I was seeking approval,
for sure.
-Were you proud of her?
-Yeah. Yeah, I was.
Hmm.
That is great design.
And again here, look at--
She's running off.
She's gonna run for a long time.
I remember reading somewhere,
Jule Campbell has to wait
outside the photo lab,
because if Mark
gets to the pictures first,
he's gonna want to run the ones
that are the most revealing.
No, that's not true.
It doesn't work that way.
Right, and it never did.
No. He likes to see
a pretty girl
like any other man.
But maybe the pictures
under his guidance
have been a little sexier.
But it's also
because times have changed.
Each of the managing editors,
their perception of women
is very interesting.
And I can't really
tell you everything.
It's time to start respecting
women for who they are,
not the way that they look.
Ann Simonton
was Swimsuit Issue model.
And later became
one of the biggest critics
of the Swimsuit Issue.
We are anti-censorship.
We're also pro-nudity
and sexuality.
Know that it's not
the sex per se,
the explicitness per se,
but it's the marketing of women,
taking a real human being
and turning her into an object
that we are against.
From her own
personal experience,
she talks about sexual as*ault.
It's time that we make
some changes in the society.
r*pe is a violent thing that's
happening to too many women.
You certainly
can make that connection
between violence against women,
because that happens
when women are seen
not as subjects with agency,
but as people to be consumed
and to be maneuvered at will.
So, Ann Simonton,
she's like, "Okay,
we've got this whole issue
about swimsuit models.
What if we devoted that
to female athletes?
The guarantee
was not to female athletes
that they at least
show up in one issue a year.
That guarantee
is given to swimsuit models.
My answer
to the feminists
who've given me a hard time,
if they knew
that I'm never further away
than the photographer's elbow.
And I also have my own camera,
so I can see what he sees.
And if I don't like
what he's doing,
I'll say, "I don't want
that kind of picture,
a provocative position
or whatever."
And they'll say, "Oh,
just a few pictures for me."
And I'll say, "No."
And if he continues,
I just walk
in front of his camera
and I go and fix her hair.
And I can hear him
swearing behind me.
And when I turn around,
I say, "Are you ready?"
This is somebody's daughter.
The reason
this story has lasted as long
is that you walk
a very thin line of propriety.
Now pull it over your head.
Or are you
gonna be nasty?
I don't care
if they think I'm a nun.
And I surprise them
the next series.
I always, from the beginning,
had one little picture
that stirred the pot.
But it can't be too naughty.
I wasn't there to tease men.
I was there for being outside
and being healthy
and being natural.
And I felt like
Jule always had my back
and that she wasn't gonna allow
other people to be around
that were gonna exploit us
in different ways.
She's doing the best she can
with the tools that she has
and is working within the system
that she exists in
and the time
that she exists in.
One person
can exact some change,
but one person cannot
take down the whole system
and fight
the entire editorial staff.
Sir, once again,
I would like to see
Sports Illustrated explore
more of women's
athletic abilities
and less of their bare bottoms.
I appreciate the
public service you perform
by reminding
your female readers
to resume
their exercise programs.
May I suggest a similar issue
featuring Olympic water polo
or swimming team
modeling the latest
in men's swimwear.
Jule's looking for
athletic swimsuit models.
Not lewd, fairly covered.
Her success
with the Swimsuit Issue
contributes to this
real blurring
and this kind of emphasis
on female athletes
needing to look like
swimsuit model stand-ins
to get any kind
of attention from the magazine.
Sports isn't enough in the way
that it's enough for men.
Jule's designed
a responsibility.
She does it very well.
It complicates matters
for female athletes.
In the beginning,
we were doing this shot,
and the guys were in the water
and Kathy, Dara, and I
were walking past.
And then
we did the same to them.
Is this
the men's polo team?
- Yeah.
- Let's see.
Because I don't think
they have in it
where the women
are checking out the men.
And I found
hundreds of those slides.
Well, what Jule does is
working with the photographers.
They edit everything down to the
last couple of hundred pictures.
Then I look at the last couple
hundred pictures with them
and my art director and Jule
and oftentimes the photographer.
And then pick the pictures from
those last couple of hundred.
They always waited
till I left the room.
I could hear
as the door was closing,
"Oh, my, did you see... Mm. Mm."
And I think, "Grow up."
You have to know what
I'm dealing with. Boys club.
Would you try that?
Try that. Just...
I didn't show
anything I didn't like.
I had that control.
She does have
gatekeeping responsibility.
But are there photos
that didn't make it
into the Swimsuit Issue
that she wanted?
And so that's huge.
You've got power.
But up to a point.
I think anonymity is really
pretty great. You know.
I wasn't ever particularly
interested in the actual work,
but I wanted the job.
I wanted to do SI.
Yeah. I hang photos
of myself on trees.
And I just gaze at them
adoringly all day long.
It's only looking back now
with the context of MeToo
and all of us
revisiting everything
that we normalized so much
that I can say, "Oh, wow."
Oh, stop.
You met two.
Every night.
That's right.
When I went to Paris
and I suddenly
had to be working with
all these really
famous photographers
who have been outed,
who are notorious rapists,
who were so inappropriate.
And my response
was always to joke
or to gross them out.
And that was a defense
against that power
being taken away from me.
To make a deal with
the devil every single day.
Just stay like that
till the model comes out.
When I would vent to
Jule about that stuff going on,
she would be outraged
and supportive
and share her own stories
and commiserate.
When you've almost been
r*ped a few times and roofied
and beaten
on the streets in Paris,
and had photographers
exposing themselves to you,
and the former president groped
you in front of Jeffrey Epstein
and, like,
it goes on and on and on.
Um, yeah, I've got--
You know, there's a lot
of baggage there,
so there's a lot
to sort through.
I do remember at one point this
argument about,
"it's a celebration of the
female form and everything."
But who was painting and carving
the sculptures? The men.
- Can we cut to the Jamaica trip?
- Yes.
- Let's go to Jamaica.
- Yeah.
We had Kim Alexis, Carol Alt,
and then this phenom coming in.
Paulina.
My assistant, Louis, and I were
sitting in the bar in the hotel
and all we could think about,
"When is Paulina
gonna come in?"
There's, like, an elderly couple
sitting over here to our right.
And this girl walks in.
And her T-shirt, handwritten,
"Too drunk to f*ck."
I said, "You're gonna
have to take that off.
Jule's gonna
have a heart attack."
That was the first time
I ever met Paulina.
She's a concert pianist.
She could play.
Aha. Hmm.
This is the piece that I played
when we were in Jamaica.
When I ended,
I noticed that was Walter
and his assistant
sitting in the corner.
"Damn, that's great."
I think the pot might have had
something to do with the fact
that Walter thought
I was such a great pianist.
In 1983, I lived in Paris.
I remember coming into an
agency late in the afternoon.
"Guess what? We think
you might have a booking
for Sports Illustrated
Swimsuit Issue.
And literally,
my reaction was like,
"I don't do
tennis clothes, okay?"
And they're like, "No, no, no,
no, no. You don't understand.
We're not talking about
tennis clothes here.
We're talking about..."
And then, of course, they
went into a lengthy explanation
of what the Swimsuit Issue
meant in the United States.
And then, of course,
enter famous story.
What were you doing
in Jamaica?
Um, Sports Illustrated,
the bathing suits issue,
you know, the very sexy one.
But they was... They were
almost ready to throw...
I mean, to send me back
after the first night.
Well, why?
Because I wore
a very indecent T-shirt.
Well, I would think a pretty
girl could wear what
she wanted to to any hotel.
Well, there was a text
on the white T-shirt.
Oh.
Well, what'd it say?
"Too drunk to f*ck."
Were you?
Never.
She was a naughty girl,
but I got along with her,
and we became friends.
We have to take
some comedic pictures of Paulina
because
she's got the best humor.
She was a natural beauty
with a very dirty mouth.
She used to surprise me.
She was like an angel
with a foul mouth.
This was my idea
to tie my hair with my bra
because I was always
running around topless.
And then Jule was like,
"Hey, why don't we...
Why don't we do a shot of that?"
The palm leaf
was Walter's inspiration.
This is the girl I was then.
You know?
It's one of the best pictures
I've ever taken.
And this is
what Jule taught me.
When you have a bikini on,
all you have to do is embrace
your body and who you are.
And there is such
a sense of freedom to that.
Do you find that models
tend to be vain and shallow
-and superficial?
-Absolutely.
-Oh, really?
-Hm.
But you don't include yourself
in that category.
Of course not. I don't think
of myself as a model.
Oh, really? What do you
think of yourself as?
-Human being, Dave.
-Well, see that.
Human being.
It's so funny
because the shots
are so much less overt.
They're so much less sexually,
whatever, explicit,
or whatever it is these days.
But this is where we get to
how times have changed.
We have, I think,
evolved as a society
and things that were
absolutely normal
and acceptable 40 years ago
no longer are.
And I always just speak
from personal experience
that, to me,
when I felt objectified,
it was because I didn't have
a say in how I was portrayed.
Now, when I put myself out
in a bikini or nothing,
that's my choice.
To me, it's objectification
or celebration.
Can it be both at the same time?
I don't see why not.
We have been taught
that our bodies are valuable
if they're pretty.
So, then,
if you exhibit that body,
you are technically
objectifying yourself,
but you're also
celebrating yourself.
We, as women, this is what we
have been given as our powers,
and then we are shamed
for using them.
Well, women will be shamed
for everything, won't they?
- Whoo!
- I got through that one
without f*cking up once.
Yes. Whoo!
It was under
Mulvoy that the thing went
from being 20 pages
to being 36 or 40 pages
all of a sudden.
Well, Mark was the one
who made it larger
right off the bat.
In 1984,
when I did get the magazine,
I set out to do several things.
I wanted to redesign
the magazine.
I wanted
to run pictures larger.
And I think,
in very small order,
we doubled and tripled the size
of the annual Swimsuit Issue.
This year has to
sell more than last year.
That pressure was always there.
1975, seven pages.
1973, seven pages.
Here we have...
I think it was 48. I lost count.
Most of the advertising
that was invested into the
business the whole year
came from the interest
driven by that particular issue.
So, we had a lot of pressure
on us
to perform to a certain extent.
I know Jule did, too.
Sports Illustrated putting out
its 25th anniversary
Swimsuit Issue.
Rather than the normal
several pages
that they have once a year,
they put out
a special entire issue.
And I remember
going to the ad people
and said, "Listen, I need a lot
of pages."
You put 30 or 40 or 50
more pages with swimsuits,
and you sell
a couple of million copies
on the newsstand.
That's a lot of money.
Jule was able to take this idea
and migrate it
to all of these different
platforms successfully.
This year,
the photo spread is the subject
of a new $1 million
documentary.
We've already pre-sold
600,000 cassettes.
Jule got Hemmingway's
tracker to fulfill her vision.
Knee on the roof,
elephants around me,
ears flapping, and all of that.
I think Alexa was there
because right before the trip,
I lost my nanny. And Jule's
like, "Bring her with us."
The tracker was telling us,
"If you were to get between
the mother and the baby
elephant, she will be angry.
So, the only thing you can do
to calm an enraged elephant
is to purr.
But if you don't soothe
the elephant,
they will roll your car over
again and again
until they know that everyone
on the inside is dead."
Okay. All right, well,
let's go find some elephants.
John Zimmerman
is in the vehicle
right behind me with his lens,
and Alexa was in my vehicle.
- And we come through
these bushes.
Right in the middle of
the mama elephant and the baby.
Oh, he's doing things
with his trunk. Nice.
And the mama elephant
is mad as hell.
Here he comes.
It's okay, Christie.
Hemingway's tracker
says, "Start purring."
And I'm like, "Purr.
Purr."
Jule's like, "Good, good."
So, I was like,
"Protect my baby.
Purr.
I don't know about this."
h*, h*, h*, h*, h*.
Go away.
- Let's go. This is ridiculous.
- Hey, Sam.
I love elephants and
I would do anything for them.
- She's got the baby.
- But at that moment,
I was a mama
protecting my baby.
Swimsuit video
sales at $19.95 a cassette
could reach $15 million.
Another money maker:
swimsuit calendars.
The grand total
for the Swimsuit Issue?
More than $32.5 million,
or about 1/3 of SI's profit
for all of last year.
How many photographs
do you suppose are taken?
Are you ready?
Ninety thousand slides.
-Ninety thousand?
-Approximately, yeah.
Is this going to be
an annual event
where you'll, in effect,
put out an extra issue?
-I hope not.
-You hope not.
Because of the work involved?
Once you do that,
you can't say, "We're not
doing it next year."
Well, excuse me? How else...
You know, we're accustomed
to making a lot of money.
That made more money,
that single issue,
than Time magazine
made all year.
- Sports Illustrated senior editor.
- -Senior editor.
- Jule Campbell.
- Jule Campbell.
Jule Campbell,
senior editor
of Sports Illustrated
Swimsuit Issue.
Managing editor told me
he was going to fire her.
I said, "Why would you fire her
before her 25th anniversary?"
What, for Paulina?
Yeah. I can't wait.
You know,
I'm in a real, real bind.
I can't do that anymore,
you know, it's my people.
She was such an important piece
of that company's success.
Would have been nice
to see her have some sort
of interest in the business,
but at those times,
you know, you didn't.
And even
for my lingerie business,
I didn't have an interest
in the business either.
I'm sure
it was horrible for her,
all the politics involved in
being a woman in a man's world.
I couldn't have done it.
Do you like a dominant man?
-A dominant man?
-Yeah.
What do you mean by dominant?
You mean, like,
bigger than me
or just dominant up here?
I got exclusive interviews
with many of the models
in this intimate setting.
Just a chance to chat with them.
It was a bit of a zoo
once it came out.
And we had those...
big parties,
and I'd always have to do
tons of radio interviews,
all those shock jocks and stuff,
and they'd be so disgusting
and sexist and...
Are you ready to try this?
-Ready.
-Stacey. Have at it.
Well, Ingrid and I were
just trying to figure out
how to warm you up
on this cold February morning.
And then it came to us.
Hardball.
- You're unmarried.
- Yes, I'm unmarried, but I'm--
Which athlete would you marry?
Did you mean it
when you wrote "love and kisses"
on a poster to me?
Come on.
How can you ask me such a thing?
They really didn't realize
they were being offensive.
It was just
the way the culture was.
Do you feel comfortable
fully dressed in a suit?
Yeah, I do.
What is it that you look for?
Oh, I look for intelligence,
believe it or not, first,
and naturalness
and how people project.
Those are three
important things.
And I look at figures, too.
I would suspect.
I mean, isn't that what the--
I mean, this
issue sells a multiple.
I mean, what,
25 times or 40 times
what a normal issue on
the newsstands sells?
-You bet.
-And I would suspect it is not
intelligence, whatever,
-is it, that most people--
-Yeah, it helps.
I'm sure you know this.
In front of the camera,
if you have a beautiful face,
but if she doesn't understand
what you're trying to do,
you're through sh**ting
in an hour.
Are you bored?
Bored?
No, I'm never bored.
I'm agitated lots of times
because I can't do the things
I used to do
if I were
a normal person again.
I don't feel like
a normal person anymore.
I feel like a shell.
But I'm very grateful
I'm a shell.
I could be a piece of dust, too.
Are you losing
your memory, do you think?
Are you scared of that?
No. I think as you get older,
you get more memory.
Because
there are a lot of things
that were wonderful
or horrible,
but you never had the time
to relive them.
Very often, I can sit there
in my chair. And I'm alone,
and I decide what
I wanna think about that day.
Oftentimes, beauty is
dictated by the powers that be.
And historically,
the powers that be
had a lot of power
to dictate what beauty was.
Beauty is true diversity.
It took a lot of heat
because in the early years,
I didn't have
any African American models.
And I had to fight that
all the way.
Now I can talk about it,
but it was very, very,
very difficult.
Jule always had
Black girls, Spanish girls,
all ethnicities.
I'm talking about the '60s,
the '70s and the '80s,
when this
wasn't even spoken about.
By the way, back then,
a brunette
was something unusual.
So, we've come
a really long way.
I did not see myself as the
all-American girl, but Jule did.
The fashion runways,
you know,
similar looking ladies like me
were there. That was acceptable.
But Sports Illustrated
Swimsuit Issue?
Come on.
The response to having
a natural Black woman in it
was incredible.
-What do you mean, natural?
-Meaning someone
who, when you see me,
you know that I'm a Black woman.
Jule made me
a standard of beauty.
A woman that's considered
desirable, inspirational.
You can aspire to be that.
There's 10 people
in a commercial,
and you see, like,
nine Caucasian people
and one ethnic person.
That's where you know you're
only gonna get one chance.
Okay.
I hated the picture.
The first one.
Oh, my God, I hated it so bad.
I was in the Florida Keys.
I was leaning against
some bushes or something
in this one-piece swimsuit.
Like...
Was that it?
I did not like this picture.
What is wrong with me?
I like this picture now.
That is so interesting, right?
Maybe Jule wanted to preserve
a little bit of, like,
young innocence or something.
And I wanted be
like Paulina, like,
ooh, and wet in the water,
you know?
And so I think
I didn't appreciate it.
But now as an adult,
I think it's very sweet.
No wonder my mama...
My mama loved this picture.
Jule wasn't the type of person
who wanted to check a box.
She spent her time
developing a concept.
Her vision was the blueprint
for what we're seeing today
as far as standards of beauty.
She was pushing with Roshumba,
with natural hair.
Forty years later, natural hair
is having its moment.
And she was doing it
in the '80s,
when it was all about artifice
and everything
and really celebrating
Roshumba's natural beauty.
Right now, brands and society
are forced to have diversity
and inclusion in fashion,
because if they don't,
they get called out.
MJ Day was doing it
right before
the power of social media,
and Jule Campbell was doing it
when it didn't exist.
I always say
that if you don't see it,
it's kind of hard to dream it.
I hadn't seen Black girls
on the cover of huge magazines
like the Sports Illustrated.
Dang, look at that.
It was just
howling there.
The wind was insane
down there on the beaches.
I said, "Just
start swirling around."
And they started to have fun.
And one image out of
all those pictures worked.
I feel like Jule was
being political with this.
This is not just two girls,
you know,
on the sand in South Africa.
Apartheid had just ended.
You know,
this is her putting a Black girl
and a white girl together in
South Africa and saying, "What?
What? What, America? What?"
Like she was
a little bit of a gangster.
This is a gangster move
right here.
The moment this cover came out.
- Tyra!
- Stacey, over here!
Everybody in the center, please!
"Dude, that's Tyra.
Oh, my God. Super hot."
Gave everybody permission
to say that Black is beautiful,
because it is beautiful,
always has been.
But I think
there was something about
being on the cover of this
magazine that made us say,
"Yes, it's okay
to acknowledge that."
Turn your head,
take a look. Yes.
Because it's just as beautiful
as the white girl
standing next door to you.
The all-American girl
can be Black.
Because she is.
It's one of my favorite covers.
It works.
It says a lot of things.
I always feel like it's
the last time I'm gonna see you.
It's not gonna be the last time
because you're in amazing shape.
I don't want you
to feel obligated.
We love it.
- Jule.
- Sorry I'm crying.
Rapid response team,
three reps, nurses' station.
I fell to the floor.
Stupid.
What'll they do, take my brain
out, fix it and put it back?
Just your hip,
not your brain.
- You'll be here when I wake up?
- -I will be here.
- They're gonna call me.
- If I wake up.
- You will wake up. Okay?
- Thank you.
God bless you.
Our Father
who art in heaven,
hallowed be thy name,
thy kingdom come,
thy will be done
on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day
our daily bread...
- The other one broke.
- What a difference.
Michelle's helping
reorganize things a little bit.
Just getting started to--
Kick the leg.
You're doing it wrong.
-From the knee. Hold that down.
-Watch me. Yeah, just...
-Yeah.
-Like that. Yeah.
-Yeah.
-Hold the leg.
-Yeah. Good.
-Hm?
-Your muscles feel strong.
-Well, that's her good leg.
The other one is the one
she broke her hips.
That's the bad leg.
Does it hurt?
-No.
-That's good.
The only thing
I'm grateful for
is that I haven't lost
my memory.
I know I forget things
and so forth,
but I don't think
I forget things
more than anyone else my age.
- Oh, my God.
- Get out of my yard.
Oh, my goodness.
I can just remember Jule
always trying
to push the envelope.
I remember
she would always ask me,
"What are you going to do
after modeling?"
"Save your pennies."
-Yes, save your pennies.
- Say "Hi" to her.
- Hi.
- Thank you.
- Oh, my God.
- Jule.
- Hello?
Hi, Jules.
Guess who's on the phone?
It's Roshumba and Stacey.
The Williams sisters.
Oh, I love you, Jule.
How are you?
I'm alive, honey.
-Aw.
-And I'm pretty good.
Thankfully.
We were just talking about you,
and how much you loved us
and made us feel
beautiful and strong.
- You're making me cry.
- Aw.
-I love you so much.
-I love you, too, Jule.
You were one of the only ones
-where I didn't feel like...
-Yes.
I had to sort of
diminish myself
um, spiritually, physically,
or, you know, intellectually.
-Right?
-That's true.
Thank you for your vision,
and seeing and looking forward
and always wanting to diversify.
I understand now
what you were trying to do then,
-and thank you.
- Right now I'm crying.
I am so happy and proud of you.
Will I ever, ever
see you again?
Yes, you will.
My dream is to put
my arms around each of you.
-Yeah.
-So, I have a goal, too.
You're my beautiful babies.
Aw, we'll always be your babies.
Forever.
I need a minute.
She was a big part of our lives
for a lot of years.
-How are you?
-So nice to meet you.
I hope you know
you have such an impact,
and I hope to continue
that legacy.
You will.
And you have us supporting you
-every step of the way.
-The sisterhood.
The sisterhood is real.
I never really thought
that modeling
was in the cards for me.
I think I've always been
very focused on my studies.
I basically got discovered
by the SI swim team
through Instagram.
They ran a poll
on their Instagram
saying, "What Insta baddie
do you wanna see
in the next issue?"
Here I am.
I searched "change."
They wanted new women,
new models,
you know,
more relatable to the public.
So they chose astronauts,
they chose nurses, lawyers.
I applied and I got in.
I was like, "Wow, me?"
This is crazy.
This is a fitting photo?
Are you kidding me?
Look at this.
It's a little soft core.
That's Ingrid, right?
What is that?
Why did I do that?
Wearing a swimsuit
I don't feel that
it diminishes me in any way.
What do you guys
think about that?
Like, yes, there is sex appeal,
but, you know, you can be both.
And I don't think that one
should take away from the other.
One man even said,
"Well, you're posting it.
You're choosing
to be sexualized."
And I'm just like, "I am
choosing to love my body
and to be confident
in who I am."
Well, the Madonna wh*re
thing is totally patriarchal.
- Yeah, exactly.
- So, just reject it.
We're working
on a patriarchal society.
We can be sexual.
You don't get to sexualize us.
Exactly, exactly. It's our
choice. It's our agency.
They don't control
what beauty is. We do now.
-And there's a lot of backlash.
-And they hate it.
- Yes, they don't like it
- It throws them far.
They hate
that they can't control
what a beautiful person is.
So, we need
to get this light on you.
It's intimidating
to a certain type of person
to look at a woman and see her
embracing herself
in all her glory
and all of her... You know,
what makes her special
and even more of a reason
why we need to keep on doing
what we're doing.
Because it needs
to not be a thing.
If you want ad space,
you must prove you are a brand
creating change for women.
We actively decided
to not take anyone's business
that wasn't supporting
progress for women.
Yeah, you're leaving
money on the table,
but we are creating content
about women.
It's swimsuit content,
it's lifestyle content,
it's health
and wellness content.
So, there was a tweet
by Jordan Peterson.
That is Yumi Nu.
I tweeted out,
"Sorry. Not beautiful."
She's not bad-looking.
This woman has
some extra body fat.
People who cast this
particular model for this cover,
they knew exactly
what they were doing
and what kind of audience
they were trying to pander to.
They're not on her side.
They're exploiting her.
The Sports Illustrated cover,
it's obviously exclusionary.
It excludes everyone.
You have to be young.
You have to be shapely
in a very particular way.
And that would be with
a waist-to-hip ratio of 0.68.
Because that's
what's being established
cross-culturally as ideal
from the perspective of male
sexual interest, let's say.
But that's also associated
with fertility.
Not everyone
is a Sports Illustrated
swimsuit model, period.
And f*ck you
if you don't like it.
I mean, I don't even know why
you girls bother at this point.
Like, give it up, it's me.
I win, you lose.
I wrote
an article for CNN
called "Sports Illustrated
Swimsuit Issue
is a step back in time
and not in a good way."
My work sometimes
makes me a buzzkill.
But you criticize something
because you care.
What can be really empowering
on an individual level
can actually reinforce
systems of oppression
on, like, a societal
and, like, macro level.
I don't doubt that the people
who are in the magazine
feel empowered,
but it doesn't necessarily mean
that it's moving the needle
on a systemic level
if we are just reproducing
the same idea
with just different
kinds of bodies
and different kinds of people.
What about women
just wanting
to feel and look sexy
and share that?
Because
we live in a world
in which the male gaze
is the dominant gaze,
sometimes the things
that we think are sexy
are actually impacted by what
we've been told is sexy.
We feel sexy because this is
what we have been taught
sexy looks like.
So, what would it look like
to take men out of
the equation altogether?
What would the gaze
look like then?
I consider the Sports
Illustrated Swimsuit Edition
to be for women.
And, you know,
if men wanna enjoy
and celebrate it
and take a look at it, awesome.
It's something that Jule
set in motion long ago.
This is what
we are told is attractive,
but the magazine itself
does feel like a holdover
from a previous century.
And in a lot of ways,
it's archaic.
We've seen females in hijabs.
We've seen females
who identify as trans.
Is that good? Sure.
It's expanding notions
of femaleness,
but it elevates their
physicality over anything else.
I don't have
any problem
in saying that it's sexist.
I don't think there's
any question about that.
People come up to me and say,
"I know why you have
that Swimsuit Issue.
It makes money." Yeah.
So the question is,
why does it make money?
And what does that tell us
about American society?
That we really would prefer
to see women in swimsuits,
and when we see
our female athletes,
we prefer to see them
in swimsuits.
There's two ways
that change really happens.
One is the idea that you blow
the entire system up.
And the other is attempts to
change the system from within.
You have to do it
very methodically,
push where you know
you can make some gains
and, quite frankly,
maybe make some compromises.
At the end of the day,
it's important to look back on
what Jule did and really look
at the changes she did make,
not the changes that maybe
didn't happen during her tenure.
The Jule era
was coming to a close.
And it had to come to a close.
I was leaving as editor
at the end of '96.
There was
a new editor coming in.
Jule had had
a 30-year run of doing it.
It was time to change.
I don't want to get into
that discussion.
How they treated her,
and who did it and everything.
No, I don't wanna get into that.
No.
I was hired by Elaine.
Elaine quit, like,
six months after I was hired.
So, I worked for everybody.
I worked for everyone
except for Jule.
And I was the assistant.
"So far, the way I'm doing it
seems to be working out
pretty well.
It's my personality, my vision.
You can't train someone
to be you."
So true.
"I have to fight
in many instances."
I can only imagine what it
felt like to get to this point,
to have to write this list.
These hit home.
But that's the industry, right?
When they're done with you,
they're done with you.
Is it a symptom of the place
or is it a symptom of the people
that were there at the time?
I think it's sort of symbolic
for everything.
Like, why is all this stuff
so hotly contested at times?
It's because you fear
the power that women possess
when they feel the confidence
to do what they wanna do.
All these things are in place
to kind of stop us.
Why?
Because you're a certain age?
Then clearly
your expiration date is up.
In the mid-90s,
SI does reader studies
on the swimsuit issues.
The majority of readers
say what they would like is
more familiar swimsuit models
in more provocative poses.
They don't care
about the beautiful sunsets.
They just wanna see models
in less clothes.
You know your worth.
We know your worth.
We think
we've more than properly
compensated you for your worth.
They don't take
into consideration
that institutional knowledge
and innate ability.
And I would assume
that the same thing
will happen to me
and the next person,
and the next person, right?
She brought it to a place
that was celebrated.
How did I have time
for all this?
Good question.
You did a lot of stuff, lady.
These are all... This is just
one little sh**t of yours.
Jule, you're very special to me,
to the girls.
I mean...
We did things that, you know,
will never be done again.
Dearest Jule,
I'm back in my Marrakesh
for vacation with my man.
I'm in heaven.
My dearest Jule, just one
more month until the big day.
Dearest Jule, I miss you
terribly and so much.
Need to talk to you.
I feel so isolated.
I miss you and I love you.
Love, Elle.
Hi.
Ooh!
My goodness.
-You're one of my babies.
-I am.
Look at you.
-I'm just taking you all in.
-Are you happy?
-Very.
-Life is good to you.
Life is good to me.
I like it, too, that you
don't put a lot of makeup on
because I think
that makes you look younger.
You know you can study
your face when you're alone.
Yes.
And be comfortable
-using different faces.
-Yeah. True.
-And you learned that.
-You taught me that.
-You... No one taught you.
-You did.
That was the beginning
of my understanding
that beauty
comes from the inside.
When you look at this face,
what do you see?
Very alive picture.
I see my fear.
I see my wanting
to do a really good job
and not quite sure of myself.
If I had learned to honor
my body when I was this age...
Because I look back,
and I go, "Wow.
This girl was phenomenal."
And at the time,
I never felt that.
My shoulders are too broad,
and my legs are too long,
and my breasts are too big,
and my head is too small.
Cascades of hair. I love it.
You're such an amazing woman.
I wish you good things.
Do you have a good man
in your life?
Ha-ha! She's always interested
in my personal life.
She's always been.
I do that with everyone.
It makes me happy.
-Yes.
-If I don't like them,
-I don't bother asking.
-I know.
-I don't need to have a man...
-That's right.
-...to be happy.
-That's...
But then
you would see something.
Yeah. And that is my truth.
And you will get happiness
because you already
have it in you.
Exactly.
-It's true.
-Do you like me preaching?
I love you preaching.
You're not preaching, lady.
You're teaching.
I've been there and back a lot.
-It's good I'm not jealous.
-What would you be jealous of?
-You.
-No!
You're amazing.
-Seriously.
-You taught me.
-I see a great future
ahead for you.
-Thank you.
-You said that to me in 19--
-I do. I'm not joking.
You told me that in 1982.
Wow!
Jule had a Polaroid camera. She
took Polaroids of everything.
She would use them
to get a feeling
for what the suit was gonna be.
So, we would kind of
pose it out with her.
Maybe I can do something
with them.
Yes, you should do
something with them.
-One, deux...
-Trois.
I wrote to you
all these postcards.
It's amazing.
I'd forgotten about this.
I found Wiz's old camera.
I'm glad you're using it.
We have a very curious,
loving family.
Yes.
-What is this?
-This is a real tattoo.
-It's your drawing.
-It's not gonna wash off?
No. Wiz helped you with this.
You and him
drew these for the Knicks.
You told me to put it
on my outside of my arm.
I was gonna do it on the inside,
and at Christmas,
you told me to do it
on the outside.
Oh, my God. I look like I died
and came back.
- You look great.
- I have to have a copy of that.
- Okay.
- That's you and your brother.
That's my mother.
-Is that your mother?
-Yeah.
-No.
-Yeah.
How could I get that
so mixed up?
I'm his mama. I'm Jill.
I'm Jill, the mother.
-No.
-I'm Jill. Remember?
I'm Jill. That's Graham.
-Don't do all this to me.
-Okay. All right.
Let's talk about something else.
How can
I think of anything else?
It's okay, Mumu.
Don't worry. It's okay.
-Okay.
-Don't feel bad.
How long
have we known each other?
Let me see.
-Thirty-six years.
-Oh, my God.
That would make you
Bruce as your father?
No, he's my, um, ex-husband.
Bruce and I were married.
-You remember?
-We'll talk about that
another time.
-Yeah.
-It's just too much
-that's come down that I've...
-Yeah.
I'm too organized,
and I don't have it in...
-Yeah.
-In its own place.
Okay. Okay. That's okay.
-Yay!
-Thank you, everybody.
Make a wish.
You look ridiculous.
Okay. The fire is going down
on these candles.
This is my daughter.
Just a minute. Give me...
There's so many wishes.
I can only do one.
What's your toast?
Here's to you.
Here's to me.
I hope we never disagree.
And if we do,
to hell with you.
Here's to me.
It's my favorite toast.
Because it brings a smile
to your face.
You guys made this
a very special day.
Ronnie says thank you.
And my mother and father
say thank you
because they know
I'm happy.
Aw.
Always loved it
coming down in the morning
and finding all the glasses
and stuff on the table from--
Your last drinks.
So, I think
we'll do the same thing.
Here's to you
and here's to me.
I hope we never disagree.
But if we do, to hell with you.
Here's to me. But I do love you.
You've taught me so many things,
-so many important--
-I got more.
You got more? Well, bring it on.
I need to hear.
What you got for me?
I save some for Christmas.
-Okay. For Christmas
I get more Jule lessons.
-And Easter.
Yeah, you are...
You are my wonderful mentor...
-Yes. At birthdays.
-...teacher, family.
You are awesome.
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Beyond the Gaze: Jule Campbell's Swimsuit Issue (2024)
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