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01x01 - The Wire

Episode transcripts for the TV show, "Catch and k*ll: The Podcast Tapes". Aired: July 12 – July 26, 2021.*
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Series follows Ronan Farrow as he conducts interviews with whistleblowers, victims, private investigators, and other sources for his book Catch and k*ll in regard to the Harvey Weinstein sexual abuse cases.

01x01 - The Wire

Post by bunniefuu »

- You must come here now.

- No.

Please go to the bathroom.

I don't wanna do

something I don't wanna do.

Go to the bathroom. Hey, come here.

Listen to me. Five minutes.

Don't ruin your friendship

with me for five minutes.

It was a Friday in March 2015.

It was cold outside

and Ambra Gutierrez found herself

on a corner in lower Manhattan

breaking down.

Ambra was 22.

She didn't speak much English.

She's a Filipina-Italian model and

she'd just moved to the United States

about a month before

to pursue her career.

And I was on the street

and I just started crying.

And in my head, I was like, my God,

like, why is this happening?

Ambra pulled out her phone

and called her agent

and told him she had just

been assaulted by Harvey Weinstein.

She said he groped her

and put his hand up her skirt

during a meeting at his office.

I felt that I needed

to go to the police.

So, I told him to take me there.

This is the story of my efforts

to uncover the truth

about how a powerful and predatory

man for decades evaded justice.

It's the story of how media

and law enforcement

and the world of private espionage

protected that man.

I knew there's gonna be retaliation.

I didn't think there was going

to be such collusion.

And how, in the end,

all of that wasn't enough,

in the face of a group of sources who

risked everything to expose the truth.

CATCH AND k*ll

THE PODCAST TAPES

THE WIRE

I was shaking.

Harvey Weinstein assaulted me.

So, I went to that station.

And

When I talked to the police guy,

I said that this person assaulted me.

He answered, again?

And I don't know why

but that again just made me feel

like burning inside, like this,

I don't know, I nearly would

say boiling the blood.

Cause you suspected this was a guy

who was doing this in a serial way?

Happened again. Yeah.

And then, while Ambra was sitting with

the NYPD's special victim's division,

giving a detailed report

of what had happened,

she got a call on her cell phone.

It was Weinstein.

Ambra, I'm very mad at you.

Where are you?

Weinstein didn't know Ambra

was with the police.

He was calling because

he was annoyed with her.

Apparently, he'd told her

he was going to hold tickets for her

at a production of Finding Neverland,

a Broadway show he was producing.

Ambra, however, didn't show up.

They're very expensive tickets.

I said, I'm sorry.

I didn't feel so good, you know,

women's problems, something like that.

So, here's Ambra,

sitting in the police station,

in the middle of reporting this guy.

And now she has him on the phone.

I asked him like,

so, how do my breasts feel?

And he said, you're great.

They feel great. They're amazing.

Like he was admitting

and so I thought that, that's it.

They heard it.

I was saying the truth.

Instead, they asked me, Ambra,

could you do something for us?

They said, would you want to meet

him tomorrow and wear a wire?

And I said, yes, sure.

The night before the sting,

Ambra says she couldn't sleep.

She was just hours away from

reengaging with the man

who had assaulted her the day before.

And yet, while she was lying

there awake

turning over this decision

to help the police,

there was one word that

kept coming back to her,

something the police

had said the day before.

Again? I don't know, I kept

repeating in my mind that again.

I don't know, that gave me strength

to do everything, I think.

I didn't want that to happen

anymore to anyone.

It is spring. It doesn't necessarily

look or feel like it today.

The next afternoon, the police hid

the wire under Ambra's clothes.

She went to see Finding Neverland.

And then she met Weinstein.

I'm glad you went because

I made this a movie many years ago.

- With Johnny Depp and Kate Winslett.

- Yeah, I've seen it.

And now I wanted to make it a musical.

And the police

- Were there undercover?

- Yeah.

And they told me that

if I was feeling uncomfortable

to just say that you were going

to the restroom.

Weinstein and Ambra stayed

at the bar for a while.

So, I will tell you something

that I think you could be good for.

But we're gonna have

to teach you a little bit.

If you wanna spend time with me,

whatever, I will mentor you.

I teach you. But you have to relax

with me, have fun, enjoy.

He was saying those names

of actresses that he helped,

giving me so many compliments, saying

you're much better than this and that.

And keep on repeating

that if I would listen to him,

I would become even

greater than them.

And what's going through your head

as you're listening to him do this?

I was thinking how, I don't know,

he could even like think that

I would even believe those things.

Ambra's pretty savvy

about these things.

Some of that is just who she is

and some of it came from experiences

in a different country

with a different powerful man.

Silvio Berlusconi, the now former

Prime Minister of Italy.

Berlusconi had made a lot

of his money as a media mogul.

In 2009, Forbes listed him as the 12th

most powerful person in the world.

And at the time,

he controlled or influenced

six of at least seven

major TV networks.

And the government, which he ran,

also provided subsidies to most

of the newspapers in the country,

which many argue made the press

less critical of the Prime Minister.

I was born in Torino.

My mom is Filipina and my dad Italian.

Her family was working class.

She was close with her mom,

but her strongest relationship was

with her little brother, Claudio.

My brother, of course, was little.

He was three years younger.

We were playing

a lot of video games.

What did you play?

We had Mario Karts

and Play Stations,

there is this little dragon that

I don't remember

- Spyro the Dragon. Yeah.

- That's it.

So, I remember like trying

to go to sleep

and then instead turning

on the TV and play all night.

Ambra says her father could be violent.

She called him Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde.

She says sometimes he beat her mom

and when Ambra tried to intervene

and protect her,

sometimes she'd get hurt, too.

Eventually, her father left

and Ambra needed to find a way

to support the family.

That's when she decided

to try modeling.

She was a finalist

for Miss Italy in 2010.

She was on TV and got a lot of

attention. Not all of it wanted.

I was noticed by bad people

that tried to take advantage

of playing on my dreams,

taking me to the house of the

Prime Minister at the time.

Ambra's agent brought her to what

she was told would be a work function.

Turns out, it was one

of these wild bacchanals

that Berlusconi threw

at his mansion outside of Milan.

The press called them

Bunga Bunga parties.

This is a story about a guy

who wants to dance.

As the Italian Prime Minister,

he's in the news again

insisting that his infamous Bunga Bunga

parties are innocent get together.

Italian Prime Minister

Silvio Berlusconi

is once again defending his love life.

Allegations that he paid for sex

with a 17-year-old girl

and used his office to cover it up.

I was there with my friend

and what I saw was

just like women that work

in TV being there

and doing dances, erotic dances

and like being naked and other stuff.

Ambra says she was groped

repeatedly by Berlusconi.

The 30 or so women there were asked

to perform degrading sex acts

like kissing a statue

of an erect p*nis.

After two hours, Ambra and her friend

demanded to leave.

On their way out, one of Berlusconi's

associates told them,

you can forget about your careers.

Back at the hotel bar in Tribeca,

Ambra was still wearing the wire.

What, so you're gonna do

Victoria's Secret on Monday, right?

- I have a casting, yeah.

- Yeah, on Monday.

- I'll talk to you about that.

- Okay.

She and the undercover police

surrounding her

had been waiting for Weinstein

to escalate things.

Then he said, okay,

I need to get ready for this event.

I'm gonna take a shower

and just come with me.

Let's go. I have to go upstairs.

Let's go.

I was like, why do I have to come

with you, if you're taking a shower?

But I was playing dumb.

You relax, I'm gonna go take a shower.

That's all, and if you need anything

Be like, okay.

I left my jacket there.

And I followed him.

And this was something the police

had told you to do

if you got in a situation

where you needed to get out?

- That's something I thought of.

- It's something you came up with?

My mom always told me like,

always pay attention.

Be careful, like you're a woman.

In any situation, I had to have

an escape plan, always.

- Don't worry. I'm not being pushy.

- My jacket.

- Well, where is it?

- It's downstairs. I forgot.

All right, I'll come with you

to bring it up.

I took my jacket

and I'm watching the police.

Will someone follow me?

And then in the hallway,

almost close to the room,

I finally hear someone say,

Hi, Mr. Weinstein,

this is blah, blah, blah from TMZ.

Hi, Andy Reily from TMZ.

How are you doing, sir?

- Who's the lady you're in company with?

- What are you doing? Whatever.

And this was a police officer

posing as a TMZ reporter.

- What's your name again?

- Please

- I'm from TMZ.

- I don't give a sh*t who you are.

Weinstein tried to get him to leave

but the cop wouldn't budge.

Weinstein went and complained

to the hotel staff,

who pointed him and Ambra

to a more private entrance

and eventually to a service elevator.

Weinstein pressed the button for the

penthouse. And Ambra had a problem.

And I couldn't text the police.

My phone was not working.

I was trying to keep calm and I knew

that I could have get out of there.

So, there I was starting

to get very nervous.

Ambra was getting farther away

from the police.

Her phone wasn't working.

And the pacified Weinstein,

the one who'd seemed so interested

in helping her career,

had now become more insistent,

more overbearing.

And he started saying,

get into the room.

- What do we have to do here?

- Nothing.

I am gonna take a shower.

You sit there.

He's like, I'm just gonna take a shower.

You sit there five minutes.

- Sit there and have a drink, water.

- I don't drink.

- Can I stay on the bar?

- No. You must come here now.

- You look beautiful. Please?

- No, I don't want to.

I'm not doing anything with you.

Now you're embarrassing me.

I'm sorry. I did not mean. Yesterday

was kind of aggressive for me.

- I know.

- I need to know a person to be touched.

I won't do a thing. Come with me.

I swear, I won't. Just sit with me.

Don't embarrass me in the hotel.

I'm here all the time.

Please, I'm not gonna do anything, I

swear on my children. Please come in.

What did you think when he said

that I swear on my children?

I don't know.

It made me feel a little disgusted.

Go to the bathroom.

Please, I don't wanna do something

I don't wanna do.

- Come here. Listen to me.

- I wanna go downstairs.

I'm not gonna do anything and you'll

never see me again after this.

I'm a famous guy.

- I'm feeling very uncomfortable.

- Please come in now. Five minutes.

Don't ruin your friendship

with me for five minutes.

I know, but it's kind of like,

it's too much for me, okay?

Ambra, still wearing the wire,

asked him a question.

Yesterday you touched my breasts.

Please, I'm sorry. Just come on in.

I'm used to that.

- You're used to that?

- Yes, come in.

- No, but I'm not used to that.

- I won't do it again. Sit here.

She'd gotten it.

She'd gotten a confession.

Weinstein didn't know Ambra

was recording

but it was obvious she wasn't

gonna comply with his requests.

And in that moment,

she'd become a liability.

He followed her downstairs

and returned to the bar.

Weinstein was trying to keep her calm.

He asked if they could have a coffee.

But Ambra's job was done.

She was scared, exhausted.

She walked away from him

and into a bathroom

where she met two police officers.

They snuck her out of the building

and into a car.

She was rattled

but they reassured her.

They were like, Ambra, you were great.

You got it. You stopped a monster.

Shortly after Ambra left the hotel,

detectives went and found Weinstein.

He voluntarily followed them

to an NYPD precinct

where he was questioned before

eventually requesting a lawyer.

He was let go that night.

The matter was now in the hands of the

District Attorney, Cyrus Vance, Jr.

The Manhattan District

Attorney's Office

is one of the great civic

institutions in this city.

Ambra met with the head

of the DA's sex crimes unit,

Martha Bashford, for questioning.

First moment I saw her, I said, great.

She's a woman.

And they asked questions like,

so, what happened in Italy?

Were you a prost*tute?

And things like that.

And I was like,

did you hear the recording?

Two law enforcement sources

told me Bashford grilled Ambra

about Berlusconi and her personal

sexual history.

One even said Bashford was acting

like one of Weinstein's

personal defense attorney.

The DA's office has said that this

was all part of a typical interview

meant to prepare a witness

for what could happen at trial.

But Ambra and those law enforcement

sources saw it differently.

I understood what was happening.

But I couldn't believe it, that was

actually going that way.

- So, I

- What was happening in your view?

That this person was against me.

This situation, trying

to report criminal activity

and getting smeared

as a prost*tute instead,

Ambra had faced this before, too.

Back in 2010, the Berlusconi parties

became public knowledge in Italy.

Silvio Berlusconi

has appeared in court

to deny having sex

with an underage prost*tute.

Ambra provided a police statement

and eventually agreed to testify

against the Prime Minister on charges

that he'd paid for sex with a minor.

I had paparazzi coming at school.

I had people not talking to me anymore.

And my life just fell down completely.

After meeting with the Manhattan DA's

office, Ambra simply had to wait.

I got out of that meeting and I was

waiting for something to happen.

Was waiting for someone to call me

to tell me anything.

Weinstein's lawyers, meanwhile, hired

a private intelligence firm called K2,

to keep Manhattan DA Cyrus Vance, Jr.

from pressing charges.

K2 Global Partners has investigated

countless suspects,

corporations and sovereign nations.

The firm dug up clips from the Italian

press about the Berlusconi scandal,

clips that made Ambra out

to be an elicit sex worker.

And then current

and former K2 employees,

all of whom had previously worked

at the DA's office,

relayed the information smearing

Gutierrez in calls to prosecutors.

She's the stunning Italian model

who's accusing famed movie mogul,

Harvey Weinstein, of sexual

Have made similar claims before.

Just like in Italy,

the claims about her

found their way into American tabloids,

tabloids Weinstein had close ties to.

She was a witness in the notorious

Bunga Bunga sex scandal.

They were trying to smear me.

So, I don't know.

I kept waiting for the DA to call me.

Instead, I saw coming out in the news

that Harvey Weinstein was not going

to be charged criminally.

The New York District Attorney chose

not to press charges against Weinstein,

citing not enough evidence.

If we had a case that we felt

we could prosecute

against Harvey Weinstein, we would.

What went through your mind

when you saw that?

Game over.

- And your reputation was spiraling.

- Getting shredded completely. Yeah.

Like I was losing everything and then

I got an email from my lawyer

where Harvey wanted

to stipulate a contract

to help me out in the situation,

let's say.

It was to put this all behind

in exchange of money.

I told him, no, I don't want

anything from you.

Like I don't want money. He started

with, I think $300,000 dollars.

And then he went up to $500,000.

And the last time that he tried

to offer me the million dollar.

I remember that day cause

it was the most

scary that I could remember.

Cause my brother called me.

And started saying

that someone went to where

he worked, asking about me.

Ambra's brother, Claudio,

the one she'd grown up playing

video games with all night.

He was living in Italy at the time.

And the press had found him, too.

It freaked her out.

I couldn't put anyone

of my family at risk.

And that's it.

I decided to accept.

On April 20th, 2015, a few weeks

after the alleged as*ault,

Ambra sat in an office

in midtown Manhattan

with an 18-page non-disclosure

agreement in front of her.

One of Weinstein's attorneys

sat opposite her.

He looked super nervous,

even looking

a little like embarrassed.

Like I'm here but I'm sorry

that I'm here. You know?

As part of the agreement,

she was required to hand over

all of her technology to another

investigative agency, Kroll.

She had to give them passwords

to all of her email accounts

and they combed through the accounts

to clear them of any evidence

of the Weinstein incident.

Then they gave all the devices back

empty. Because there were no charges,

none of the evidence the police

collected was public record.

No one outside law enforcement

knew there had been a tape.

It was as if nothing

had ever happened.

Ambra slipped into

a long period of depression.

She couldn't get any work.

She developed an eating disorder.

I didn't leave my bed.

I remember

like my mom had to bathe me,

to take care of me cause I was

just there in bed sleeping,

trying to think it was a dream.

She lived in the Philippines

and Italy for the next two years,

trying to put it all behind her.

At that moment, I was in the thick

of my Weinstein reporting at NBC.

I'd read the initial tabloid

coverage of Ambra's story.

I'd heard there was a sting.

I called Ambra's lawyer

who sounded worried and said

he wasn't at liberty to talk.

But then, to my surprise,

I got a text from her.

This is Ambra.

I would like to meet you.

We met for the first time

at a Manhattan restaurant.

She was sitting in the back.

She seemed anxious.

You were putting a lot on the line.

What made you decide

to talk to me anyway?

I was really thinking like this is it.

Like after two years,

I could be taking my life back.

I remember Ambra

taking a deep breath

and then showing me

the million-dollar settlement.

Turns out, Ambra was sitting on

something bigger than the contract.

She didn't have a recording

from the wire,

but it turns out that throughout the

sting, while she was wearing the wire,

Ambra was also recording

a backup on her cell phone.

The first thing that I did after

that police operation,

I sent my recordings to five

different emails that I had.

Remember that Kroll,

the cyber security firm

Weinstein hired to enforce

Ambra's NDA,

had asked for all of her passwords

and scoured all of her devices

and email accounts to make sure any

copies of the recording were destroyed.

And Ambra had said she'd complied.

But there was one password

she didn't give up right away.

And I said, sorry,

I don't remember the last one.

I'm gonna figure it out.

It's an Italian account.

I opened up my email

and I saw the recordings.

I made copies of it

to the desktop of the computer.

And then I called my lawyer

and I said,

I remember the password.

It's this one.

So just like that, Ambra

had saved a copy of the recordings

and no one figured it out.

For weeks, I pressed Ambra

to give me the audio.

I would have wanted to give

you those recordings

and, of course, I didn't wanna make

trace of where it was coming from.

And then I said,

well what if we just

- Record the recording.

- Record the recording.

And it allowed me to say, she never

transferred any files to me.

Of course. It was the truth.

And then I said, great,

let's get the computer out

and I remember you saying,

there's a problem.

- The speaker don't work.

- The speakers don't work.

So, you ran out of the restaurant

to get a speaker.

What was going through your mind as I

sprinted across town to get speakers?

I was really waiting for it to come out.

Like I was really ready.

Five minutes. Don't ruin your

friendship with me for five minutes.

Later, in fact checking calls

with Weinstein and his lawyers,

when we told them we had a copy of the

recording, Weinstein was shocked.

The recording that was destroyed by

the district attorney, he kept saying.

District Attorney

Cyrus Vance, Jr.'s office

denies this and says they would

never destroy evidence.

Please, I'm sorry.

Just come on. I'm used to that.

That October, I published the first

in a series of articles

exposing Weinstein

and telling Ambra's story.

What was it like to finally see the

story and the recording go public?

Like extreme happiness.

The freedom that maybe a person

could feel after being in jail.

I don't know. It was just

Being born again.

I got to see these

two versions of Ambra.

The source that I was working with

who was so

brave and strategic and savvy.

And then this caricature of you

that so many people

in the media had embraced.

I got to listen to all these executives

over and over again saying,

she's a hustler, she's a shake

down artist, she's a hooker.

And it blew my mind on several

levels because, first of all,

if a source had been a prost*tute, that

doesn't mean her story isn't true.

Exactly. That's something

I would always say.

Did you hear the recordings?

Even if I was that.

Of course.

I never wanted to not be myself.

Why should I change what I am,

what makes me happy,

to just make people think

that things cannot change?

That even a woman that wears

high heels and a short skirt

can stop someone bad

to do bad things,

to be strong enough to be knowing

who she is, what she want

and so to say no when

she doesn't want to do things.

Once I understood Ambra's story,

I realized another way

to understand the power dynamic

that played out in that hotel.

Because in standing her ground

and showing this incredible degree

of savvy and determination,

Ambra Gutierrez became the one

with the power.

People really miscalculated,

underestimating you.

It was perfect. They would never have

thought I had those recordings.

Who am I? I have no power.

I'm a model.

Ambra's recording was the kind

of hard evidence

that reporters have chased for years.

Some of those reporters had come

pretty close to nailing the story, too.

That's what I discovered

when I spoke to Kim Masters,

the respected entertainment journalist.

All of a sudden, Harvey comes

screaming like a mad man.

He said, what have

you heard about me?

I said, I've heard you r*pe women.