BALLOON POPS,
CHILDREN SCREAM
BALLOON POPS,
CHILDREN SCREAM
In 1964,
Granada Television brought together
In 1964,
Granada Television brought together
a group of seven-year-olds.
We have followed their lives
every seven years.
We have followed their lives
every seven years.
They've talked about their dreams,
They've talked about their dreams,
their ambitions
their ambitions
and their fears for the future.
Give me a child until he is seven,
Give me a child until he is seven,
and I will give you the man.
I read the Financial Times.
I read the Financial Times.
Sometimes, we go and play nicely
with the boys,
Sometimes, we go and play nicely
with the boys,
and sometimes, we go out
and argue with the boys.
and sometimes, we go out
and argue with the boys.
Do you want to be rich?
Well, yes,
because I don't want to be tied down
Well, yes,
because I don't want to be tied down
to the dourness of an everyday job.
I think, if you're healthy
and have good friends,
I think, if you're healthy
and have good friends,
you can get on perfectly well.
What do you want for yourself, then?
Just be content with what I'm doing.
To know where I'm going.
Just be content with what I'm doing.
To know where I'm going.
Just be content with what I'm doing.
To know where I'm going.
And to remember fondly
what I've done.
I'd like to find out
I'd like to find out
all about the moon and all that.
all about the moon and all that.
Do you want to take up farming?
No.
Do you want to take up farming?
No.
But it's a last resort.
I was gonna be a film star,
but now I'm gonna be
an electrical engineer.
but now I'm gonna be
an electrical engineer.
Aren't you worth more than this?
Aren't you worth more than this?
I'm going to work in Woolworths.
I'm going to work in Woolworths.
I would help the poor, yeah,
cos the poor,
I would help the poor, yeah,
cos the poor,
if you don't help them,
they'd sort of die soon,
wouldn't they?
they'd sort of die soon,
wouldn't they?
Well, some people are just born
into rich families,
Well, some people are just born
into rich families,
and they're lucky.
An education is very important.
An education is very important.
Good education, that's something
that no-one can take away.
Good education, that's something
that no-one can take away.
Because we've been
to private schools,
it's not
that we're better qualified,
it's not
that we're better qualified,
we've been taught to expect more.
we've been taught to expect more.
They're posh and,
"Oh, yes, oh, yes, oh, yes."
They're posh and,
"Oh, yes, oh, yes, oh, yes."
They're posh and,
"Oh, yes, oh, yes, oh, yes."
They're nuts.
Obviously, if you come
with a silver spoon,
Obviously, if you come
with a silver spoon,
you're gonna get more
attractive jobs and easier life.
you're gonna get more
attractive jobs and easier life.
But I think you've also seen
But I think you've also seen
that it doesn't always work
that way.
that it doesn't always work
that way.
At 7 and 14,
everybody was in love with you.
At 7 and 14,
everybody was in love with you.
And now nobody speaks to me.
When I leave school,
I may want to go to university,
When I leave school,
I may want to go to university,
but I don't know which one yet.
What does "university" mean?
What does "university" mean?
Why is it that you three
haven't changed?
Why is it that you three
haven't changed?
We've all had a stable background
with stable relationships.
We've all had a stable background
with stable relationships.
You can be born shy.
You can be born as an extrovert.
You can be born shy.
You can be born as an extrovert.
You can be born shy.
You can be born as an extrovert.
You can be someone
who likes to make people laugh.
You can be someone
who likes to make people laugh.
You can be someone
who's much quieter and deeper.
You can be someone
who's much quieter and deeper.
And I think that's in you.
And I think that's in you.
But then life happens.
I have had regretful behaviour
various times.
I have had regretful behaviour
various times.
We all make mistakes in everything,
We all make mistakes in everything,
from parenting to decisions in life.
from parenting to decisions in life.
And that's how you become
the person you are.
The years are flying
through my mind at the moment.
The years are flying
through my mind at the moment.
The future is not maybe as bright
as it would have been
The future is not maybe as bright
as it would have been
for a kid coming out of university,
like me, in the late '70s.
for a kid coming out of university,
like me, in the late '70s.
I can't really recognise myself.
I can't really recognise myself.
He looks a little bit lost
and a little bit sad,
He looks a little bit lost
and a little bit sad,
and I'm quite sort of surprised
to be sort of contented.
and I'm quite sort of surprised
to be sort of contented.
The moment of pure,
unadulterated joy in my life
The moment of pure,
unadulterated joy in my life
was when my son was handed to me
when he was born.
was when my son was handed to me
when he was born.
I have never felt so optimistic,
I have never felt so optimistic,
so just purely unworried
about anything.
so just purely unworried
about anything.
so just purely unworried
about anything.
Real-life TV,
with the added bonus
that you can see people grow old,
with the added bonus
that you can see people grow old,
lose their hair, get fat -
fascinating.
lose their hair, get fat -
fascinating.
Cheers!
Cheers!
Every time this programme starts,
it says,
Every time this programme starts,
it says,
"Give me a child till you're seven,
and I will give you the man."
"Give me a child till you're seven,
and I will give you the man."
Is that true or false?
What's the point of the programme?
It's... The point of the programme
is to reach a comparison.
It's... The point of the programme
is to reach a comparison.
I don't think it is.
The point...
I don't think it is.
The point...
Because we're not necessarily
typical examples.
Because we're not necessarily
typical examples.
I think that's what people
seeing the programme might think.
I think that's what people
seeing the programme might think.
Yes.
Falsely.
The idea of the film was to examine
the British class system
The idea of the film was to examine
the British class system
to see whether it was changing,
see if it was reflecting
to see whether it was changing,
see if it was reflecting
the great cultural upheavals that
were going up in the United Kingdom.
the great cultural upheavals that
were going up in the United Kingdom.
The most serious thing
the programme would be saying
The most serious thing
the programme would be saying
is that Suzy's got
more opportunities than you three
is that Suzy's got
more opportunities than you three
is that Suzy's got
more opportunities than you three
to do what she wants.
Let's put it this way. I...
So far, I've done more or less
what I wanted to do.
So far, I've done more or less
what I wanted to do.
I... Money...
All right, it might have stopped it
to a certain extent, but...
All right, it might have stopped it
to a certain extent, but...
I mean, it's not sort of...
I've not sort of gone around
I mean, it's not sort of...
I've not sort of gone around
thinking, "Oh, there's people
got more money than me,
thinking, "Oh, there's people
got more money than me,
"and I can't do
what I wanna do and..."
"and I can't do
what I wanna do and..."
It's just complete rubbish.
You live the life you're in.
I mean, that's it.
You live the life you're in.
I mean, that's it.
♪ Ambiclitella, ambiclitella... ♪
♪ Ambiclitella, ambiclitella... ♪
♪ Ambiclitella, ambiclitella... ♪
Well, I think we're in a...
Well, I think we're in a...
pretty well
a classless society nowadays.
pretty well
a classless society nowadays.
Even if there's not,
I feel there's still a class system.
Even if there's not,
I feel there's still a class system.
Even if there's not,
I feel there's still a class system.
SCHOOL BELL RINGING
I think you've still got divisions.
I don't think it's class,
necessarily.
I don't think it's class,
necessarily.
Although, to be honest,
the aristocracy
will always be the aristocracy,
the aristocracy
will always be the aristocracy,
unless we have a revolution.
And I don't think
that's gonna happen.
SCHOOL BELL RINGING
It is them and us.
You'll always have a Tory leader
gone to Oxford or Cambridge.
You'll always have a Tory leader
gone to Oxford or Cambridge.
You'll always have a Tory leader
gone to Oxford or Cambridge.
There is still a working class.
Of course there is.
There is still a working class.
Of course there is.
There's still a middle class,
and there's still an upper class.
There's still a middle class,
and there's still an upper class.
But the boundaries
have just... blurred now.
But the boundaries
have just... blurred now.
But the boundaries
have just... blurred now.
I think, obviously, if you come
from a monied background,
I think, obviously, if you come
from a monied background,
you have a certain advantage.
you have a certain advantage.
But... money isn't the same thing
as class.
But... money isn't the same thing
as class.
But... money isn't the same thing
as class.
Yeah, there is still
a class system in England,
Yeah, there is still
a class system in England,
Yeah, there is still
a class system in England,
but I think it's a lot
more blended now, which is good.
but I think it's a lot
more blended now, which is good.
And I think people now
And I think people now
who have maybe had
a harder start in life,
who have maybe had
a harder start in life,
they can now really get up and go.
PIANO PLAYING
If you want
to improve your situation,
If you want
to improve your situation,
you have to work for it
and educate yourself.
you have to work for it
and educate yourself.
you have to work for it
and educate yourself.
For the average person,
education opens doors.
For the average person,
education opens doors.
For the average person,
education opens doors.
The system now
is based on celebrity.
The system now
is based on celebrity.
It's based on money,
and it's based on celebrity.
It's based on money,
and it's based on celebrity.
You can be... You can go anywhere
and do anything
You can be... You can go anywhere
and do anything
if you've been on a...
if you've been on a...
I was gonna say a reality TV show,
but then I'm really
on a reality TV show,
but then I'm really
on a reality TV show,
and it hasn't
really changed my life.
and it hasn't
really changed my life.
Every time this programme starts,
it says,
Every time this programme starts,
it says,
"Give me a child until you're seven,
"Give me a child until you're seven,
- "and I will give you the man."
- Mm.
- "and I will give you the man."
- Mm.
I mean, you are the classic example
of it not being true.
I mean, you are the classic example
of it not being true.
I mean, you are the classic example
of it not being true.
You know, your own life went
into a kind of freefall somewhat.
You know, your own life went
into a kind of freefall somewhat.
The change of you at 14
The change of you at 14
to the change of you at 21,
to on a building site,
to the change of you at 21,
to on a building site,
was staggering.
How can you explain
that vast changing?
How can you explain
that vast changing?
I thought differently.
I had different aspirations.
I thought differently.
I had different aspirations.
I wasn't content
with a quiet, domesticised life.
I wasn't content
with a quiet, domesticised life.
I had to go out and seek adventure.
I had to go out and seek adventure.
And it had its downside
because I hadn't really
And it had its downside
because I hadn't really
been well prepared for it
in my childhood.
been well prepared for it
in my childhood.
'I was a very spoilt child.
'I was a very spoilt child.
'And, erm, my first seven years
probably didn't give me
'And, erm, my first seven years
probably didn't give me
'And, erm, my first seven years
probably didn't give me
'any real introduction
to what life was gonna be like.'
'any real introduction
to what life was gonna be like.'
In the winter,
if you lived in the country,
In the winter,
if you lived in the country,
well, it would just all wet,
and there wouldn't be anything
for miles around.
and there wouldn't be anything
for miles around.
And you get soaked
if you tried to go out,
And you get soaked
if you tried to go out,
and there's no shelter anywhere
except in your own house.
and there's no shelter anywhere
except in your own house.
But in the town,
you can go out on wet wintery days
But in the town,
you can go out on wet wintery days
because you can always find
somewhere to shelter.
because you can always find
somewhere to shelter.
I slept in a bulldozer once.
I slept in a bulldozer once.
I've slept in bitterly cold huts
and on seats and things.
I've slept in bitterly cold huts
and on seats and things.
Squatted in London, yeah,
I think in two different addresses.
Squatted in London, yeah,
I think in two different addresses.
It would be pretty tough to convince
most people that what you have here,
It would be pretty tough to convince
most people that what you have here,
the way you live, the way you look,
is better than a suburban life.
The way you live, the way you look,
is better than a suburban life.
The way you live, the way you look,
is better than a suburban life.
Well, I don't want
to convince anybody - I know it is.
Well, I don't want
to convince anybody - I know it is.
See, what I look like
isn't necessarily what I feel like.
See, what I look like
isn't necessarily what I feel like.
I'm not claiming that I feel as
though I'm in some sort of nirvana.
I'm not claiming that I feel as
though I'm in some sort of nirvana.
I'm not claiming that I feel as
though I'm in some sort of nirvana.
But I'm claiming that if I
was living in a bedsit in suburbia,
But I'm claiming that if I
was living in a bedsit in suburbia,
I'd be so miserable,
I'd feel like cutting my throat.
I'd be so miserable,
I'd feel like cutting my throat.
What my background has given me
is a sense
What my background has given me
is a sense
of just being part of, erm...
of just being part of, erm...
a very impersonal society.
a very impersonal society.
The suburbs force
this kind of feeling upon somebody.
The suburbs force
this kind of feeling upon somebody.
The suburbs force
this kind of feeling upon somebody.
Do you ever think you're going mad?
I don't think it, I know it.
I, erm...
I don't think it, I know it.
I, erm...
Well, cos we...
We're not allowed
to use the word "mad" to...
We're not allowed
to use the word "mad" to...
I-I think most people
are mad here, really.
I-I think most people
are mad here, really.
You see...
But then, I think it's a mad world.
You see...
But then, I think it's a mad world.
We're in France, where I now live.
We're in France, where I now live.
And this is a lovely bookshop,
And this is a lovely bookshop,
where I spend half a day a week
working voluntarily,
where I spend half a day a week
working voluntarily,
which I really enjoy.
Fills the week
and gives a framework to the week.
Fills the week
and gives a framework to the week.
I am still married
but separated from my wife.
I am still married
but separated from my wife.
The marriage was active
only for four years.
The marriage was active
only for four years.
Oh, well, it very suddenly ended,
and, erm...
Oh, well, it very suddenly ended,
and, erm...
I was at a bit of a loss
to understand that.
I was at a bit of a loss
to understand that.
So, probably years of living
on my own, I'd become...
So, probably years of living
on my own, I'd become...
So, probably years of living
on my own, I'd become...
..without realising it,
much more selfish
..without realising it,
much more selfish
than I would have wanted to be.
than I would have wanted to be.
I'm not very good with others.
And even the friends
who've remained,
And even the friends
who've remained,
I suppose that they're only friends
I suppose that they're only friends
because I don't see them
every day of the week.
because I don't see them
every day of the week.
They're people I can turn to,
but I'm not the sort of person
They're people I can turn to,
but I'm not the sort of person
who goes around in groups
with others.
who goes around in groups
with others.
'What did they say
was wrong with you?'
'What did they say
was wrong with you?'
'Well, I have always had
a nervous complaint.'
'Well, I have always had
a nervous complaint.'
I had it since I was 16.
And it has been...
I had it since I was 16.
And it has been...
It was responsible
for my leaving university
It was responsible
for my leaving university
and for some
of my difficulties with work.
and for some
of my difficulties with work.
What is this nervous complaint?
Well... it's basically depression,
Well... it's basically depression,
periods of very bad depression,
which make it... difficult
periods of very bad depression,
which make it... difficult
periods of very bad depression,
which make it... difficult
for me to do anything constructive.
for me to do anything constructive.
And it has side-effects,
because when I'm trying to pretend
as if I'm not depressed,
because when I'm trying to pretend
as if I'm not depressed,
this is when my behaviour
can become erratic.
this is when my behaviour
can become erratic.
It's trying to act a role
which is impossible
It's trying to act a role
which is impossible
It's trying to act a role
which is impossible
that can make the situation worse.
that can make the situation worse.
But as you know, you can't afford
to go around looking depressed.
But as you know, you can't afford
to go around looking depressed.
That in itself is bad enough.
So, can you lick it?
That in itself is bad enough.
So, can you lick it?
It remains to be seen.
I've tried to avoid
being caught up in situations
I've tried to avoid
being caught up in situations
where I know
I'll be at a disadvantage
where I know
I'll be at a disadvantage
where I know
I'll be at a disadvantage
without trying
to avoid the whole of life.
without trying
to avoid the whole of life.
I've come across people who've...
obviously had
similar kind of problems
obviously had
similar kind of problems
and just become total recluses.
and just become total recluses.
And in the end,
that doesn't help them.
And in the end,
that doesn't help them.
If somebody
has a mental health problem,
If somebody
has a mental health problem,
it doesn't mean they're odd,
it doesn't mean they've chosen
to be weird or anti-social.
it doesn't mean they've chosen
to be weird or anti-social.
It's just part of...
As much as a person's sexuality,
It's just part of...
As much as a person's sexuality,
it's not something they choose,
it's what they are.
it's not something they choose,
it's what they are.
And can we get to being a society
that recognises this?
And can we get to being a society
that recognises this?
And can we get to being a society
that recognises this?
I'm probably as happy as I could be,
given my life.
I'm probably as happy as I could be,
given my life.
I'm probably as happy as I could be,
given my life.
A great deal more could have
gone wrong than has done.
A great deal more could have
gone wrong than has done.
I am still quite lonely at times.
I am still quite lonely at times.
But this is a common characteristic
of our age.
But this is a common characteristic
of our age.
And I don't suppose there's anybody
who can really say, "I'm happy."
And I don't suppose there's anybody
who can really say, "I'm happy."
And I don't suppose there's anybody
who can really say, "I'm happy."
They must be deluding themselves
when they say that.
They must be deluding themselves
when they say that.
CHORAL SINGING
I think, was it Edith Sitwell
whose final words were,
I think, was it Edith Sitwell
whose final words were,
I think, was it Edith Sitwell
whose final words were,
"It's all been rather good,
really, hasn't it?"
"It's all been rather good,
really, hasn't it?"
And I'd like to be able
to say something like that
And I'd like to be able
to say something like that
when I... when I go out.
when I... when I go out.
I would like to get married
when I grow up.
I would like to get married
when I grow up.
Well, I don't know what sort of boy,
but I think one that, erm...
Well, I don't know what sort of boy,
but I think one that, erm...
Well, I don't know what sort of boy,
but I think one that, erm...
GIGGLING So, erm...
GIGGLING So, erm...
..that's not got a lot of money,
but has got some money, not a lot.
but has got some money, not a lot.
I'd like to be able
to have a happy family.
I'd like to be able
to have a happy family.
I'd like to be able
to have a happy family.
I mean, I know that's not possible,
to be happy all the time,
I mean, I know that's not possible,
to be happy all the time,
but as much of the time
that was possible.
but as much of the time
that was possible.
Here, look. Through there, that's...
Jackie was married last year.
Jackie was married last year.
She has decided
not to have any children.
She has decided
not to have any children.
'Basically, I would say
because I'm far too selfish.
'Basically, I would say
because I'm far too selfish.
'I enjoy doing what I want,
when I want and how I want.'
'I enjoy doing what I want,
when I want and how I want.'
And, er, that's not to say that
that's a forever decision.
And, er, that's not to say that
that's a forever decision.
And, er, that's not to say that
that's a forever decision.
Some people can make it work.
I just don't think I could.
Some people can make it work.
I just don't think I could.
Right, Charlie, there's yours.
Right.
Right, Charlie, there's yours.
Right.
And please eat it all up.
I will.
And please eat it all up.
I will.
And James.
Thanks, Mum.
And James.
Thanks, Mum.
Good boy.
And last but not least...
Gonna eat that one for me?
This is actually
a place called Newmains,
This is actually
a place called Newmains,
which is about... it's about
a 40-minute drive from Glasgow.
which is about... it's about
a 40-minute drive from Glasgow.
So, how did you land up here?
So, how did you land up here?
Well, because the boys' dad's
Scottish,
Well, because the boys' dad's
Scottish,
and this is his home town.
Not long after settling in Scotland,
Ian and Jackie split up.
Not long after settling in Scotland,
Ian and Jackie split up.
Not long after settling in Scotland,
Ian and Jackie split up.
Bye, James.
'We're now living on our own,
although he's a regular visitor
'We're now living on our own,
although he's a regular visitor
'and sees the children quite often.'
Lee!
'Can you tell me
about breaking up with Ian?'
'Can you tell me
about breaking up with Ian?'
No. No.
No. No.
I can't. Sorry.
Was it painful and...?
Yeah.
And it's not really
for public display,
And it's not really
for public display,
so I'd really rather not.
But it was a hard time for you?
Yeah, and it was a hard time
for the boys,
and it was a hard time for him.
But...
..it's not... I'm just not
going into it, Mike, I'm sorry.
..it's not... I'm just not
going into it, Mike, I'm sorry.
That's all right.
So, I mean,
what are your hopes for the boys?
So, I mean,
what are your hopes for the boys?
'It's a bit like having
a favourite uncle
'that sometimes you love
and sometimes you really don't like.
'that sometimes you love
and sometimes you really don't like.
'I have never said,
"No, I won't do the programme."
'I have never said,
"No, I won't do the programme."
'But as I've said before,
there are personal issues
'But as I've said before,
there are personal issues
'that I don't go into with him.'
Good work.
'But it didn't stop him trying.'
'But it didn't stop him trying.'
Cut.
'I mean, I'll be totally honest now.
I wasn't happy.
'I mean, I'll be totally honest now.
I wasn't happy.
'I wouldn't let him
interview me at 35
'I wouldn't let him
interview me at 35
'because I was so fed up with him.'
'I know there's a question
I've got to ask them.
'I know there's a question
I've got to ask them.
'I know there's a question that,
if I don't ask it,
'I know there's a question that,
if I don't ask it,
'the audience will say,
"Why didn't he ask that?"
'the audience will say,
"Why didn't he ask that?"
'And I know that question
might be hurtful.
'And I know that question
might be hurtful.
'Now, to some of them,
I wouldn't ask
'because it would break them down.
'Others, I think,
are more resilient, and I ask it.'
'Others, I think,
are more resilient, and I ask it.'
Cheers.
Cheers!
'And sometimes
they get upset about it.'
'And sometimes
they get upset about it.'
Does your temper
get you into trouble?
Does your temper
get you into trouble?
You're probably the best one
to answer that. Does it?
You're probably the best one
to answer that. Does it?
I mean, you and I
have had arguments on occasions.
I mean, you and I
have had arguments on occasions.
Do you think you've settled down
too young?
Do you think you've settled down
too young?
I mean,
what do you mean by "settled down"?
I mean,
what do you mean by "settled down"?
I mean, if you think
that getting married,
I mean, if you think
that getting married,
as far as we're concerned,
is a case of going to work,
as far as we're concerned,
is a case of going to work,
come home, cook tea for hubby,
going to bed,
getting up, going to work,
you're totally mistaken.
getting up, going to work,
you're totally mistaken.
The whole thing is you're saying...
'I like it when you shout at me.'
The whole thing is you're saying...
'I like it when you shout at me.'
'I'm not sure you do, really.'
I mean, I don't know.
Is it settling down now?
You're asking me,
after five months of marriage,
have I made a mistake?
after five months of marriage,
have I made a mistake?
I mean, God, if I've made a mistake
after five months of marriage,
mate, then...
after five months of marriage,
mate, then...
I think you're being
absurdly defensive about it.
I think you're being
absurdly defensive about it.
I simply asked you whether you think
you've seen enough men...
I simply asked you whether you think
you've seen enough men...
He didn't ask...
He's gonna get bolshy now.
He didn't ask...
He's gonna get bolshy now.
..to know that you've made
the right choice. Yeah, right.
..to know that you've made
the right choice. Yeah, right.
You notice he waits
till it's on bloody camera.
'What happened at 21?'
You asked me
if I'd had enough experience
You asked me
if I'd had enough experience
with men before I got married.
with men before I got married.
And I thought that was actually
an insulting question,
And I thought that was actually
an insulting question,
and I got very angry.
And we actually stopped filming
because of it.
And we actually stopped filming
because of it.
'And if you look at the tapes
of me at 21,
'And if you look at the tapes
of me at 21,
'I'm sitting,
and to all intents and purposes,
'I'm sitting,
and to all intents and purposes,
'I might as well
have not been there.'
But I was really angry
that you even thought
you could get...
that you even thought
you could get...
You wouldn't have asked
some of the other people
You wouldn't have asked
some of the other people
in this programme that question.
You would never have gone near them
with it.
You would never have gone near them
with it.
But you asked me, and you asked Sue,
and you asked Lynn.
But you asked me, and you asked Sue,
and you asked Lynn.
So you tell me why you asked us
when you wouldn't have asked
the others.
Shall I answer that?
Yeah.
Well, because you married young,
and I wondered whether
you were ready to get married.
And I wondered whether
you were ready to get married.
So, there was nobody else at 21
that had been married?
So, there was nobody else at 21
that had been married?
That was married?
Well, there are only four women
in the film, and...
Well, there are only four women
in the film, and...
I'm not just talking about the
women, I'm talking about the men.
I'm not just talking about the
women, I'm talking about the men.
Why do you differentiate?
Why do you differentiate?
Well, I think I do a bit,
Well, I think I do a bit,
between women's sexual experience
and men's sexual experience.
Between women's sexual experience
and men's sexual experience.
Between women's sexual experience
and men's sexual experience.
And women's, you know...
And women's, you know...
The fear of pregnancy
and stuff like that,
The fear of pregnancy
and stuff like that,
I think there's more at stake
with women and sex,
I think there's more at stake
with women and sex,
at least in that period of time...
..when there wasn't the pill
widely used and whatever.
..when there wasn't the pill
widely used and whatever.
..when there wasn't the pill
widely used and whatever.
Well, I think you're probably
looking at the wrong era,
Well, I think you're probably
looking at the wrong era,
cos the pill was quite widely used,
exceptionally widely used.
cos the pill was quite widely used,
exceptionally widely used.
I actually believe
it was something to do with this...
I actually believe
it was something to do with this...
I mean, this programme
originally started off on a class...
I mean, this programme
originally started off on a class...
it was to see
how the different classes -
it was to see
how the different classes -
working class, middle class,
upper class - react.
working class, middle class,
upper class - react.
I remember, at 14,
we filmed a sequence -
I remember, at 14,
we filmed a sequence -
Sue and I doing drama
with our drama teacher.
Sue and I doing drama
with our drama teacher.
He was actually
a university-educated,
He was actually
a university-educated,
intelligent man.
He was there when we did that,
and he said,
He was there when we did that,
and he said,
"You'll never see that clip
in the film."
And I said, "Why not?"
He said, "Cos that's not
what they want people to see.
He said, "Cos that's not
what they want people to see.
"That doesn't fall
into that category."
"That doesn't fall
into that category."
And it was right,
because it was never seen.
And it was right,
because it was never seen.
So, you think
it's not that the ideas
So, you think
it's not that the ideas
of class in the films
has been bogus,
of class in the films
has been bogus,
you think it's more
that I've misrepresented
you think it's more
that I've misrepresented
certain groups of you?
To a degree, yeah. Yeah, I do.
Certain groups of you?
To a degree, yeah. Yeah, I do.
I mean, I know you had preconceived
ideas on this programme
I mean, I know you had preconceived
ideas on this programme
about, erm, certain people
about, erm, certain people
and where you thought
they would get to
and where you thought they would be.
Would everybody please sit
round now, get on with their work?
Would everybody please sit
round now, get on with their work?
I don't want to see any backs to me.
I don't want to see any backs to me.
Shouldn't be anybody turning round.
Tony, do you hear as well?
Shouldn't be anybody turning round.
Tony, do you hear as well?
Tony!
Tony!
Don't turn round again.
So, are there many villains
in the East End?
So, are there many villains
in the East End?
Er, there has been in the time,
I suppose.
Er, there has been in the time,
I suppose.
Like, obviously,
the originals were the Kray twins.
Like, obviously,
the originals were the Kray twins.
We're in Vallance Road now.
As it goes, they used to live here.
We're in Vallance Road now.
As it goes, they used to live here.
Wherever you go, there's villains,
and whether you mix with them
or not,
and whether you mix with them
or not,
I mean, it's up to you.
Does it worry you, the possibility
of becoming one of them?
Does it worry you, the possibility
of becoming one of them?
How can I become a villain?
If it's not in there,
it's not born in you,
you won't become one.
I think, what I've learned
all the way through
is the less I do, the better,
that the more I let them
speak for themselves,
that the more I let them
speak for themselves,
try not to lead them anywhere
I think they should be led
try not to lead them anywhere
I think they should be led
and let them do the leading.
I got into a situation,
I think, early on,
I got into a situation,
I think, early on,
when I become judgemental
about people,
when I become judgemental
about people,
that if they didn't agree
with my standards
that if they didn't agree
with my standards
of success, failure,
happiness, whatever,
of success, failure,
happiness, whatever,
then, you know, that I would feel
they were the lesser for it.
Then, you know, that I would feel
they were the lesser for it.
News Of The World
about three weeks ago...
Yeah?
..a Pakistani family arrived here.
Yeah?
..a Pakistani family arrived here.
They went up the council and went,
"I'm here now, where's my house?"
They went up the council and went,
"I'm here now, where's my house?"
Yeah.
"Where's my house?"
And if they ain't got a house,
they can, er...
And if they ain't got a house,
they can, er...
straight away,
they can go on labour,
straight away,
they can go on labour,
they can get, like,
money under false pretences... Yeah.
they can get, like,
money under false pretences... Yeah.
..and get in a hotel
on the taxpayer's money.
..and get in a hotel
on the taxpayer's money.
Thing is...
When there's - wait - a poor lady
Thing is...
When there's - wait - a poor lady
who lived here all her life,
with two kids,
divorced or something,
can't manage...
divorced or something,
can't manage...
Oh, yeah.
..they've got no house.
But are you gonna blame that
onto them?
Surely, you should
go deeper than that -
blame it on the whole structure.
The thing is,
they're not to be blamed.
Nobody's questioning
their moral character at all.
Nobody's questioning
their moral character at all.
No, all right. Or their ability
to work or anything.
You can't blame that on immigration.
Do you sympathise?
You can't blame that on immigration.
Do you sympathise?
Or let's put it this way.
Rather them than me,
because I wouldn't
want the worries going home.
because I wouldn't
want the worries going home.
When my door's shut, I can just
go to bed with a clear mind.
What would you vote in the election?
It should be Great Britain first,
then any other people second.
It should be Great Britain first,
then any other people second.
It should be Great Britain first,
then any other people second.
With the utmost respect,
I understand the plight
of people coming here,
I understand the plight
of people coming here,
but they're not coming
from w*r-torn countries.
but they're not coming
from w*r-torn countries.
Sometimes, I wondered
whether Tony was pushing it too far
Sometimes, I wondered
whether Tony was pushing it too far
what he was saying, and so, in 56,
I just came out with it.
What he was saying, and so, in 56,
I just came out with it.
What he was saying, and so, in 56,
I just came out with it.
Listening to you,
sometimes you sound r*cist.
Listening to you,
sometimes you sound r*cist.
I mean, you talk about Asian...
Racism?
One minute, you talk about Asians,
you talk about Japanese,
One minute, you talk about Asians,
you talk about Japanese,
and yet here in Spain,
you seem to really work
and yet here in Spain,
you seem to really work
to integrate into the community.
Well, look, Michael,
with respect to you,
Well, look, Michael,
with respect to you,
that word, "r*cist", it covers leaps
and bounds of characteristic...
that word, "r*cist", it covers leaps
and bounds of characteristic...
I've never been r*cist
in a million years.
I've never been r*cist
in a million years.
In a million years.
I love people.
I'm a people lover, you know?
I love people.
I'm a people lover, you know?
And I'm... No way. I think that's,
with respect to you, over the top.
And I'm... No way. I think that's,
with respect to you, over the top.
Mildly, I'm putting over
an interview towards you
Mildly, I'm putting over
an interview towards you
how I perceive the world to be.
how I perceive the world to be.
There is an undeniable truth.
Yes, Tower Hamlets,
all the East End,
Yes, Tower Hamlets,
all the East End,
has changed to the Asian community.
has changed to the Asian community.
Now, what is offensive of me,
or r*cist, saying to you that?
Now, what is offensive of me,
or r*cist, saying to you that?
It's the truth.
But has it changed for the worse
because of the Asian...?
But has it changed for the worse
because of the Asian...?
I can't comment on that.
So, my father was actually born
in Austria.
So, my father was actually born
in Austria.
And when the Nazis
invaded Austria in 1938,
And when the Nazis
invaded Austria in 1938,
And when the Nazis
invaded Austria in 1938,
he came over with his mother
to the UK.
he came over with his mother
to the UK.
He had a sort
of basic knowledge of English.
He went to a boarding school
up in Hertfordshire.
He went to a boarding school
up in Hertfordshire.
Then he went to Cambridge.
Then he went to Cambridge.
And then he joined a bank,
And then he joined a bank,
where he stayed
for the rest of his life.
where he stayed
for the rest of his life.
My mother was French.
My mother was French.
She lived in Paris during the w*r.
She lived in Paris during the w*r.
So I'm actually the son
of two migrants.
So I'm actually the son
of two migrants.
You know, migration is such an issue
at the moment.
You know, migration is such an issue
at the moment.
So maybe it's important
to say that...
So maybe it's important
to say that...
it's not just people
coming over in boats
it's not just people
coming over in boats
who get put up in asylum hotels,
but people who make a...
who get put up in asylum hotels,
but people who make a...
who get put up in asylum hotels,
but people who make a...
you know, who may be fleeing
persecution, like my father was,
you know, who may be fleeing
persecution, like my father was,
and make
a really valuable contribution,
and make
a really valuable contribution,
as I feel he did.
as I feel he did.
I don't know, I should've been
a racing driver, you know.
I don't know, I should've been
a racing driver, you know.
Do you like the West End,
what you see of it?
It's all lights, you understand?
Yeah.
But you must have sort of, er,
the bright lights where you are?
But you must have sort of, er,
the bright lights where you are?
But you must have sort of, er,
the bright lights where you are?
I'm not saying not so good...
'I do remember the whole lot.
'I do remember the whole lot.
'I've picked most of them up
in my cab.'
'I've picked most of them up
in my cab.'
I walk down here, and I can
be attracted as much as that.
I walk down here, and I can
be attracted as much as that.
PIANO PLAYING
'I picked Lynn, God bless her,
when she was working in Docklands.
'I picked Lynn, God bless her,
when she was working in Docklands.
'She worked
in Bethnal Green Library.
'She worked
in Bethnal Green Library.
'I picked Neil up walking along
Hackney Road with that walking -
'I picked Neil up walking along
Hackney Road with that walking -
'I recognised the walk
and the shuffle.
'I recognised the walk
and the shuffle.
'He walks three and shuffles once,
walks three, shuffles once.
'He walks three and shuffles once,
walks three, shuffles once.
'I took him home.
'I took him home.
'We gave him a tea
and a ham sandwich.
'And the kids just coming home
from school, and it was so noisy.
'And the kids just coming home
from school, and it was so noisy.
'And the kids just coming home
from school, and it was so noisy.
'It was too much for him.
'He asked me to take him home,
which I did.
'He asked me to take him home,
which I did.
'Bruce Balden - coincidence again.
'Bruce Balden - coincidence again.
'Not only did he teach
in my old school,
'Not only did he teach
in my old school,
'he taught in my old classroom.
'he taught in my old classroom.
'And my Auntie Flo used to do
his washing and ironing for him
'And my Auntie Flo used to do
his washing and ironing for him
'And my Auntie Flo used to do
his washing and ironing for him
'in the laundrette.
'It may not seem a lot to you,
'but it's like celluloid
going through my mind.'
'but it's like celluloid
going through my mind.'
Go on, mate. Jesus.
Go on, mate. Jesus.
You've got all your theatres here.
Like, you've got...
You've got all your theatres here.
Like, you've got...
'John Brisby. I'm at the airport.
'John Brisby. I'm at the airport.
'He come from Bulgaria,
in Terminal 5.
'He come from Bulgaria,
in Terminal 5.
'I picked him up.
We had tea in a nice china cup.
'I picked him up.
We had tea in a nice china cup.
'Met Claire again, his dear wife.
'He paid me £75 for the fare.
'He paid me £75 for the fare.
'Couldn't believe it -
I thought he was game for a laugh.'
'Couldn't believe it -
I thought he was game for a laugh.'
Now, you're interested in politics,
Now, you're interested in politics,
would like to be a politician.
What kind of things
would you change?
What kind of things
would you change?
I wouldn't allow any strikes.
How would you do that?
I'd set up a tribunal
I'd set up a tribunal
where people, workers,
could apply for better wages.
where people, workers,
could apply for better wages.
where people, workers,
could apply for better wages.
And this tribunal
would have the final word,
And this tribunal
would have the final word,
and if it said no wage rise,
no wage rise.
and if it said no wage rise,
no wage rise.
John declined
to be interviewed at 28.
John declined
to be interviewed at 28.
He felt satisfied with what
he had said in the previous films
He felt satisfied with what
he had said in the previous films
and had nothing more to add.
When I was 28,
I hadn't been very happy
with the way I'd been portrayed
I hadn't been very happy
with the way I'd been portrayed
I hadn't been very happy
with the way I'd been portrayed
in the first three programmes.
Years ago,
when I first started at the Bar,
Years ago,
when I first started at the Bar,
a lot of people who subsequently
became good friends
a lot of people who subsequently
became good friends
said they instinctively disliked me.
said they instinctively disliked me.
They said they'd approached me
with a completely different idea
They said they'd approached me
with a completely different idea
of who I was.
'I was made to appear, aged seven,
'as an awful little prig
and everything,
'and people I've talked to
who knew me when I was seven
'and people I've talked to
who knew me when I was seven
'said I was actually quite nice -
'you know, a bit of a dreamer.
'And, you know,
you don't see that at all,
'And, you know,
you don't see that at all,
'that side of things.'
Stop it at once!
I felt that I had been set up
I felt that I had been set up
to represent
an outmoded class system
to represent
an outmoded class system
to represent
an outmoded class system
that had no validity
in the modern world.
that had no validity
in the modern world.
I didn't have a relationship
with Michael Apted.
I didn't have a relationship
with Michael Apted.
He had a sneering and somewhat
supercilious manner, and...
He had a sneering and somewhat
supercilious manner, and...
He had a sneering and somewhat
supercilious manner, and...
I didn't feel he was on my side.
I didn't feel he was on my side.
'Are you popular here?'
'I hope so, reasonably.'
'Are you popular here?'
'I hope so, reasonably.'
Well, I do know
lots of people, yeah.
Well, I do know
lots of people, yeah.
I mean, are there people
who don't like you,
don't like what you stand for?
I don't think I stand for anything.
Well, I mean you...
Do you?
Yes, I would think that if someone
didn't know you well...
Yes, I would think that if someone
didn't know you well...
Yes, I would think that if someone
didn't know you well...
You know, you stand fairly wealthy.
You know, you stand fairly wealthy.
You know,
you're not short of money.
You belong to the Dining Club,
and you go beagling.
You belong to the Dining Club,
and you go beagling.
And I would think
you stand for those things.
And I would think
you stand for those things.
Well, I suppose...
Well, I suppose...
Honestly, yes,
there are a lot of people
who might have their backs put up,
but, you know...
who might have their backs put up,
but, you know...
..not when you actually sort
of transcend the impersonal image
..not when you actually sort
of transcend the impersonal image
and sort of get to know...
the real people.
and sort of get to know...
the real people.
and sort of get to know...
the real people.
"Fall-out" is too big a...
an expression.
"Fall-out" is too big a...
an expression.
"Fall-out" is too big a...
an expression.
I didn't fall out with him.
If I'd met him, I'd have been
perfectly civil to him
If I'd met him, I'd have been
perfectly civil to him
and him to me.
But I didn't like him,
and I didn't trust him.
But I didn't like him,
and I didn't trust him.
Michael Apted wasn't really
interested in me as a person,
Michael Apted wasn't really
interested in me as a person,
the real me.
He wanted the fake me as a bogeyman.
He wanted the fake me as a bogeyman.
Did you have that
conversation with him at any point?
Did you have that
conversation with him at any point?
Did you have that
conversation with him at any point?
No, because I...
No, because I...
..thereafter was not interviewed
by him.
..thereafter was not interviewed
by him.
After the 35,
I was prepared to come back.
After the 35,
I was prepared to come back.
The ice had been broken,
so to speak.
The ice had been broken,
so to speak.
But I felt I was entitled to say,
But I felt I was entitled to say,
"If you want me,
these are the terms."
"If you want me,
these are the terms."
I dislike intensely
being on television,
I dislike intensely
being on television,
and I'm only doing it this time
because I see this as an opportunity
and I'm only doing it this time
because I see this as an opportunity
and I'm only doing it this time
because I see this as an opportunity
to draw the attention
of viewers in this country
to draw the attention
of viewers in this country
to the awful problems in Bulgaria...
to the awful problems in Bulgaria...
..and in the hope
that they may wish to do something
..and in the hope
that they may wish to do something
..and in the hope
that they may wish to do something
to help the situation here.
And some good did come of it,
because we received
one very generous donation
because we received
one very generous donation
from someone who'd been moved
by what they saw.
There's an assumption that you would
have a substantial contribution
There's an assumption that you would
have a substantial contribution
to the future of English life,
and that's good.
To the future of English life,
and that's good.
What happens if you don't make it?
I dare say I would be disappointed.
I dare say I would be disappointed.
But on the other hand, I mean...
But on the other hand, I mean...
when I'm talking
about making a contribution,
you would do it at any level.
I mean, you don't just have
to be a sort of Cabinet minister
I mean, you don't just have
to be a sort of Cabinet minister
to be able to sort of do your bit.
You can be...
to be able to sort of do your bit.
You can be...
Even if you're the best
dustman in Lambeth, I mean...
Even if you're the best
dustman in Lambeth, I mean...
Yah, exactly.
But is that good enough for you?
Yah, exactly.
But is that good enough for you?
Not really. I've got to do
some sort of positive good.
Not really. I've got to do
some sort of positive good.
At one stage,
I had a big involvement
in lots of well-known insolvencies.
in lots of well-known insolvencies.
Enron, Lehman's, Barings.
Enron, Lehman's, Barings.
I acted for years
for the Maxwell pensioners,
I acted for years
for the Maxwell pensioners,
who were seeking to recover sums
who were seeking to recover sums
that had been misappropriated
from the pension funds.
that had been misappropriated
from the pension funds.
that had been misappropriated
from the pension funds.
Many years' worth
of furious litigation.
Many years' worth
of furious litigation.
And I'm pleased to say
the Maxwell pension funds
were reconstituted,
the Maxwell pension funds
were reconstituted,
so the pensioners received
their full entitlements to pensions.
so the pensioners received
their full entitlements to pensions.
So it was a good result.
I think The Beatles are mad
because they make too much noise
I think The Beatles are mad
because they make too much noise
I think The Beatles are mad
because they make too much noise
and their hairstyle is so bad.
I...
and their hairstyle is so bad.
I...
If they composed softer music,
If they composed softer music,
If they composed softer music,
I wouldn't mind so much.
I wouldn't mind so much.
Erm, I just loathe their haircut.
Erm, I just loathe their haircut.
'That was John.'
If you loathe the haircut,
you wouldn't have liked
Henry V's haircut.
you wouldn't have liked
Henry V's haircut.
you wouldn't have liked
Henry V's haircut.
From a Liverpool suburb,
returning home
from the comprehensive school,
returning home
from the comprehensive school,
Neil and Peter.
I don't think you want
to go to university
I don't think you want
to go to university
if you want to be an astronaut.
Well, I...
changed my mind completely,
of course.
Mum and Dad might say
"No, son, that's not life.
Mum and Dad might say
"No, son, that's not life.
"You don't get a job you like."
"You don't get a job you like."
And, er...
I'd like to think I could.
Teachers are undervalued
and underrated.
Teachers are undervalued
and underrated.
And the whole...
the system's beginning to crumble.
And the whole...
the system's beginning to crumble.
You know, people outside of it
don't realise that, but it is.
You know, people outside of it
don't realise that, but it is.
And it's, er...
And it's, er...
it's very disillusioning.
Are you surprised
by the way England's being governed?
Are you surprised
by the way England's being governed?
I'm not surprised with the people
I'm not surprised with the people
who are governing us
at the moment, no.
Why?
I've even stopped being amazed.
Why?
I've even stopped being amazed.
Why?
Why?
Why?
Why?
Well, I don't wanna get dragged
into party politics, you know,
Well, I don't wanna get dragged
into party politics, you know,
but basically, this is
the most incompetent,
but basically, this is
the most incompetent,
uncaring bloody shower
we've ever had.
uncaring bloody shower
we've ever had.
'After 28 Up, Peter decided
not to continue in the film.'
'After 28 Up, Peter decided
not to continue in the film.'
'After 28 Up, Peter decided
not to continue in the film.'
I pulled out because
of the responses and the reactions
I pulled out because
of the responses and the reactions
I pulled out because
of the responses and the reactions
I pulled out because
of the responses and the reactions
that, erm... my participation drew
in the weeks afterwards,
that, erm... my participation drew
in the weeks afterwards,
that, erm... my participation drew
in the weeks afterwards,
particularly in the tabloid press.
particularly in the tabloid press.
They decided
they were gonna portray me
as the angry young Red
in Thatcher's England.
as the angry young Red
in Thatcher's England.
as the angry young Red
in Thatcher's England.
I think I was articulating
at the time
what a lot of people of my age
and my background were thinking.
what a lot of people of my age
and my background were thinking.
what a lot of people of my age
and my background were thinking.
'And I was an easy target.'
'And I was an easy target.'
'And I was an easy target.'
I mean, I wasn't calling for violent
revolution or anything. You know?
I mean, I wasn't calling for violent
revolution or anything. You know?
I mean, I wasn't calling for violent
revolution or anything. You know?
CHUCKLES
If you look back now, what I would
say, it was fairly mild, I think.
If you look back now, what I would
say, it was fairly mild, I think.
If you look back now, what I would
say, it was fairly mild, I think.
But that's not how
the Tory rags saw it.
But that's not how
the Tory rags saw it.
They were quite nasty.
And although I thought,
although people said to me,
And although I thought,
although people said to me,
"Look," you know, "it's only
The Sun, for God's sake",
"Look," you know, "it's only
The Sun, for God's sake",
you know, "Who cares what The Sun
thinks about you?",
you know, "Who cares what The Sun
thinks about you?",
it still shook me up quite a bit to
see what people who'd never met me
it still shook me up quite a bit to
see what people who'd never met me
it still shook me up quite a bit to
see what people who'd never met me
thought about me
from ten minutes on television.
thought about me
from ten minutes on television.
And I think some of that,
also looking back,
And I think some of that,
also looking back,
definitely had to do
with where I was from.
definitely had to do
with where I was from.
And you took it very personally?
And you took it very personally?
Yeah, yes, I did, yeah.
There was a particularly dark period
I went through some years ago.
There was a particularly dark period
I went through some years ago.
It was my then-partner,
now my wife, who said,
It was my then-partner,
now my wife, who said,
"Love, this is not normal.
"You need to go
and speak to somebody about this."
"You need to go
and speak to somebody about this."
One of the best definitions
I've heard of depression is this,
One of the best definitions
I've heard of depression is this,
that most people know
at the back of their minds,
that most people know
at the back of their minds,
even when they're going through
a rough patch,
they know really, instinctively,
that they're gonna come out
the other side of it.
that they're gonna come out
the other side of it.
The difference with a depressive
is that you don't have that.
The difference with a depressive
is that you don't have that.
I think it's become easier
as I've got older,
I think it's become easier
as I've got older,
because I've had
more experience of it.
And I know what it is,
it's an illness,
And I know what it is,
it's an illness,
and I know
I will be able to deal with it
and I know
I will be able to deal with it
and come through it
and get back out of the pit.
and come through it
and get back out of the pit.
What do you want out of life?
The satisfaction of knowing...
The satisfaction of knowing...
..that I've left
some sort of imprint
..that I've left
some sort of imprint
rather than just lived out MY life.
rather than just lived out MY life.
Quite often, I've been asking myself
questions... about...
Quite often, I've been asking myself
questions... about...
Quite often, I've been asking myself
questions... about...
..why I'm here, what am I doing,
where am I going?
..why I'm here, what am I doing,
where am I going?
I think that's at the heart of a lot
of the work I've done, I think.
I think that's at the heart of a lot
of the work I've done, I think.
I think that's at the heart of a lot
of the work I've done, I think.
'I am now completely focused
'I am now completely focused
'on songwriting, performing,
making records, touring.
'on songwriting, performing,
making records, touring.
'on songwriting, performing,
making records, touring.
'Then I wrote a novel.
And I have co-written a musical.'
'Then I wrote a novel.
And I have co-written a musical.'
'Then I wrote a novel.
And I have co-written a musical.'
♪ The ghost of a cowboy
Looked up to the stars
♪ The ghost of a cowboy
Looked up to the stars
♪ The ghost of a cowboy
Looked up to the stars
♪ Said, "They'll all be here
When you're gone
♪ Said, "They'll all be here
When you're gone
♪ Said, "They'll all be here
When you're gone
♪ "You just keep on chasing
No matter how far
♪ "You just keep on chasing
No matter how far
♪ "You just keep on chasing
No matter how far
♪ "Something that was there
All along
♪ "Something that was there
All along
♪ "Something that was there
All along
♪ "The only thing certain
Is leaving this life
♪ "The only thing certain
Is leaving this life
♪ "The only thing certain
Is leaving this life
♪ "So don't leave it
With any regrets
♪ "So don't leave it
With any regrets
♪ "So don't leave it
With any regrets
♪ "Nobody remembers the miles
That you rode
♪ "Nobody remembers the miles
That you rode
♪ "Nobody remembers the miles
That you rode
♪ "Nobody remembers the miles
That you rode
♪ "It's the rider
That no-one forgets..." ♪
♪ "It's the rider
That no-one forgets..." ♪
♪ "It's the rider
That no-one forgets..." ♪
So, retired? No, no! I've...
HE CHUCKLES
So, retired? No, no! I've...
HE CHUCKLES
I... Yeah, people would say
I've retired,
I... Yeah, people would say
I've retired,
because I don't do... you know,
I'm not a teacher any more.
because I don't do... you know,
I'm not a teacher any more.
But, no, I'm busier than ever I was.
But, no, I'm busier than ever I was.
Watch this.
Checkmate.
♪ "Only stop dreaming
Get on with your life
♪ "Only stop dreaming
Get on with your life
♪ "Wake up
♪ "Now it's time to go home." ♪
♪ "Now it's time to go home." ♪
♪ "Now it's time to go home." ♪
APPLAUSE
APPLAUSE
'Leading a life of fulfilment
is so important.
'Leading a life of fulfilment
is so important.
'Leading a life of fulfilment
is so important.
'And feeling that you're doing that
'And feeling that you're doing that
'and feeling that I'm living
according to my own lights...
'and feeling that I'm living
according to my own lights...
'..that's the thing.
'And I feel, by and large,
I'm doing all that.
'And I feel, by and large,
I'm doing all that.
'I'm not happy all the time,
'I'm not happy all the time,
'but I feel like I am
where I've wanted to be.'
'but I feel like I am
where I've wanted to be.'
'but I feel like I am
where I've wanted to be.'
"Look into the world
of 14-year-olds,
"their ideas,
prejudice and ambitions.
"their ideas,
prejudice and ambitions.
"It stands up by itself
as a glimpse of contemporary Britain
"It stands up by itself
as a glimpse of contemporary Britain
"from a refreshing point of view."
"from a refreshing point of view."
Is that right?
What's the next bit...?
Is that right?
What's the next bit...?
"It is also depressing
to see how class-ridden
"our present and future society is."
"our present and future society is."
'There is an issue over TV
and what it does to people.
'There is an issue over TV
and what it does to people.
'There is an issue over TV
and what it does to people.
'That was my concern with Michael
and why I didn't engage,
'That was my concern with Michael
and why I didn't engage,
'certainly after 28,
because I felt he had cast everyone,
'certainly after 28,
because I felt he had cast everyone,
'certainly after 28,
because I felt he had cast everyone,
'and they had their role to fulfil.
'and they had their role to fulfil.
'And didn't they know it,
in some cases?'
'And didn't they know it,
in some cases?'
Cheers!
When I leave school, I'm going
to the Dragon School. I might.
When I leave school, I'm going
to the Dragon School. I might.
When I leave school, I'm going
to the Dragon School. I might.
And Mum is... And I might go to...
And Mum is... And I might go to...
After, I might go
to Charterhouse, Marlborough.
After, I might go
to Charterhouse, Marlborough.
And what did Charles want to do?
And what did Charles want to do?
I'd say probably scribbling away
in some basement
I'd say probably scribbling away
in some basement
I'd say probably scribbling away
in some basement
for some London newspaper
or something.
for some London newspaper
or something.
Charles did scribble away
for an East London newspaper.
Charles did scribble away
for an East London newspaper.
Charles did scribble away
for an East London newspaper.
He then moved on to the BBC,
where he became a producer.
He then moved on to the BBC,
where he became a producer.
Since 21, he's taken no further part
in these films.
Since 21, he's taken no further part
in these films.
'So, what happened? I don't know.
'My memory of it is that
'My memory of it is that
we were made to sit back
in the headmaster's study,
'and this bloke, who subsequently
I found out was Michael Apted,
'and this bloke, who subsequently
I found out was Michael Apted,
'turned up,
and he just chatted to us.
'turned up,
and he just chatted to us.
'And we were filmed, and we had no
idea, really, of what was going on.
'And we were filmed, and we had no
idea, really, of what was going on.
'So, of course, when
I understandably gave my mother,
'So, of course, when
I understandably gave my mother,
'subsequently,
a hard time about this,
'she said,
"Well, we didn't have a choice.
' "The school just said
they wanted you to do it,
' "The school just said
they wanted you to do it,
' "and I think the headmaster wanted
to promote the school."
' "and I think the headmaster wanted
to promote the school."
'And therein lay
the seeds of the problem,
'because we had never given consent.
'because we had never given consent.
'Obviously a seven-year-old
can't really,
'but our parents didn't really know
what was going on.
'but our parents didn't really know
what was going on.
'And I was stuck with two boys
who were perfectly nice,
'And I was stuck with two boys
who were perfectly nice,
'they weren't mates of mine,
'and I was gonna be forever branded,
in terms of casting,
'and I was gonna be forever branded,
in terms of casting,
'as part of that group.
'I felt I was different from them.
'And it ended up turning
into a long-running series.
'And it ended up turning
into a long-running series.
'Well, those weren't the terms
of engagement on day one.'
'Well, those weren't the terms
of engagement on day one.'
I think perhaps
a lot of class differences
I think perhaps
a lot of class differences
are exaggerated by people
who wish to make
are exaggerated by people
who wish to make
capital of some sort out of it.
Yes.
Or by people who,
for some reason or other,
Or by people who,
for some reason or other,
are insecure in their position,
so they have to empathise
their identification
so they have to empathise
their identification
with one group or another.
And it's...
'21 was quite a painful film.
'21 was quite a painful film.
'Already, I look a bit different
from the other two.
'Already, I look a bit different
from the other two.
'I think I had a sense,
when I watched,
'I think I had a sense,
when I watched,
'at being slightly trapped
in a sort of situation
'at being slightly trapped
in a sort of situation
'which I didn't really feel was me.
'which I didn't really feel was me.
'In 1979, '80, it would have been,
I was looking for jobs.
'In 1979, '80, it would have been,
I was looking for jobs.
'In 1979, '80, it would have been,
I was looking for jobs.
'I decided I had to get on
to the BBC trainee scheme.
'I decided I had to get on
to the BBC trainee scheme.
'So I thought,
"Well, I better go to Oxford,"
'cos everybody seemed to go
to Oxford who'd been at the BBC.
'cos everybody seemed to go
to Oxford who'd been at the BBC.
'So I went there and then went
onto their training scheme
'So I went there and then went
onto their training scheme
'and went through the process
at that point.'
'and went through the process
at that point.'
I think that's right,
and it's obviously a worry when...
I think that's right,
and it's obviously a worry when...
when people do believe things
that, actually,
the producer and director
have gone to great trouble
the producer and director
have gone to great trouble
to actually faithfully record
to actually faithfully record
are perceived by the audience
to be unreal.
are perceived by the audience
to be unreal.
'I also just slightly feel
that I was working in telly,
'I also just slightly feel
that I was working in telly,
'I also just slightly feel
that I was working in telly,
'and if anybody could demonstrate
the fact
'that you didn't have to be in
if you didn't want to be,
'that you didn't have to be in
if you didn't want to be,
'it was important that I did that.
'it was important that I did that.
'21, 11 and a half million people
watched that programme,
'21, 11 and a half million people
watched that programme,
'21, 11 and a half million people
watched that programme,
'if I remember correctly.
That's a lot of people.
'if I remember correctly.
That's a lot of people.
'I used to dread
the seven-year cycle.
'I used to dread
the seven-year cycle.
'You know, the phone would ring
at eight in the evening.
'You know, the phone would ring
at eight in the evening.
' "Oh, hello, it's Mike
from Hollywood here."
' "Oh, hello, it's Mike
from Hollywood here."
'You know?
'I remember Michael turning up in
a very fancy car, an Aston Martin,
'I remember Michael turning up in
a very fancy car, an Aston Martin,
'I remember Michael turning up in
a very fancy car, an Aston Martin,
'at my father's house to talk to me,
to persuade me to do it.
'at my father's house to talk to me,
to persuade me to do it.
'Obviously,
there will be an interest
'Obviously,
there will be an interest
'in there being
a current photo of me.
'in there being
a current photo of me.
'So therefore,
the conclusion to that is...
'So therefore,
the conclusion to that is...
'is to do it in a controlled way
'is to do it in a controlled way
'and... offer you
a picture or two of me
'and... offer you
a picture or two of me
'and... offer you
a picture or two of me
'doing maybe something, climbing,
which I've got lots of,
'doing maybe something, climbing,
which I've got lots of,
'which sufficiently misleads people
as to how I exactly look now.
'which sufficiently misleads people
as to how I exactly look now.
'which sufficiently misleads people
as to how I exactly look now.
'which sufficiently misleads people
as to how I exactly look now.
'But also because I think...
'..the climbing and out-there world
is the next part of my life.'
'..the climbing and out-there world
is the next part of my life.'
'..the climbing and out-there world
is the next part of my life.'
Are you excited to be a gran?
LAUGHTER Don't know about that!
LAUGHTER Don't know about that!
She doesn't like
being called Granny.
No, I will be... I will be Gran,
not Granny. Thank you.
No, I will be... I will be Gran,
not Granny. Thank you.
MIA FUSSES
Mia was born
on the 21st of November.
Mia was born
on the 21st of November.
And, unfortunately,
on the 18th of November,
And, unfortunately,
on the 18th of November,
her grandad Ian, the boys' dad,
her grandad Ian, the boys' dad,
was severely injured
in a road traffic accident.
was severely injured
in a road traffic accident.
He, erm... subsequently died
of those injuries.
He, erm... subsequently died
of those injuries.
Unfortunately,
Ian never regained consciousness,
Unfortunately,
Ian never regained consciousness,
so he never even met her.
so he never even met her.
But he took a photo of her
in his coffin.
But he took a photo of her
in his coffin.
Phew.
That was a...
..monumental...
..mess.
'The boys were devastated.
'As much as Ian and I
didn't live with each other,
'As much as Ian and I
didn't live with each other,
'it didn't mean
that we didn't love each other.'
'it didn't mean
that we didn't love each other.'
I couldn't live with him, but...
I couldn't live with him, but...
I don't think
I've ever stopped loving him.
I've moved down to Norfolk.
I've moved down to Norfolk.
Major reason for that
was that I needed
Major reason for that
was that I needed
to have some peace for myself.
to have some peace for myself.
The sunshine helps,
makes me feel better.
The sunshine helps,
makes me feel better.
And overall, I think it's just
made me happier... in total.
And overall, I think it's just
made me happier... in total.
And overall, I think it's just
made me happier... in total.
It's not just, you know,
one aspect of my life is better.
It's not just, you know,
one aspect of my life is better.
This is a retirement complex,
basically.
This is a retirement complex,
basically.
This is a retirement complex,
basically.
There you go.
Nice one. Thank you.
There you go.
Nice one. Thank you.
Ooh, pull this up.
'I call him Ed, he prefers Eddie.
But this is Eddie.'
'I call him Ed, he prefers Eddie.
But this is Eddie.'
'We knew each other vaguely
when we were really young.
'We knew each other vaguely
when we were really young.
'We knew each other vaguely
when we were really young.
'Jackie was always playing
downstairs with her sisters.'
'Jackie was always playing
downstairs with her sisters.'
She said, "I wonder whether you know
what I look like?"
She said, "I wonder whether you know
what I look like?"
And I said, "Well, I did see you
every seven years."
And I said, "Well, I did see you
every seven years."
SHE LAUGHS
So that's how we sort of
got back into it again.
So that's how we sort of
got back into it again.
Since I've moved here,
life's been easier, a lot easier.
Since I've moved here,
life's been easier, a lot easier.
Since I've moved here,
life's been easier, a lot easier.
'I've got a chance to enjoy
my retirement, have fun,
'I've got a chance to enjoy
my retirement, have fun,
'I've got a chance to enjoy
my retirement, have fun,
'do what I want when I want,
how I want.
'do what I want when I want,
how I want.
'So I think I'm actually living
my second childhood, really.'
'So I think I'm actually living
my second childhood, really.'
And what are you most proud of?
My children. My boys.
And they are MY boys.
My children. My boys.
And they are MY boys.
My children. My boys.
And they are MY boys.
But, yes, I'm very proud
of all three of them.
But, yes, I'm very proud
of all three of them.
If I could,
I would have two girls and two boys.
If I could,
I would have two girls and two boys.
Do you think about death at all?
I don't like
to think about it a lot.
I don't like
to think about it a lot.
I'm not too sure that it worries me.
I'm not too sure that it worries me.
It wouldn't worry me if...
It wouldn't worry me if...
I walked out tomorrow and got...
knocked down by a car.
I walked out tomorrow and got...
knocked down by a car.
I walked out tomorrow and got...
knocked down by a car.
It would worry me if it was, er...
It would worry me if it was, er...
friends and relatives
who are very close to me.
friends and relatives
who are very close to me.
That's what bothers me most of all
when I think about it,
That's what bothers me most of all
when I think about it,
it's not my death that matters
to me, it's other people.
it's not my death that matters
to me, it's other people.
it's not my death that matters
to me, it's other people.
Oi, watch it!
All right, then, your go.
Oi, watch it!
All right, then, your go.
At 35,
Lynn started having blackouts.
At 35,
Lynn started having blackouts.
They discovered
that I've got these veins
They discovered
that I've got these veins
up here that shouldn't be there.
up here that shouldn't be there.
In your brain?
Mm-hm.
And what can they do about it?
Not a lot at the moment.
They're investigating other...
Not a lot at the moment.
They're investigating other...
..treatments.
But the surgeon says that, er...
..treatments.
But the surgeon says that, er...
..he doesn't want to operate
at the moment because the risk...
..he doesn't want to operate
at the moment because the risk...
It's too near the optic nerve,
and there's an 80% chance
of hitting the optic nerve.
and there's an 80% chance
of hitting the optic nerve.
'So, is it frightening
to know you have this condition?'
'So, is it frightening
to know you have this condition?'
'It was for about a week.
'But, er... it got itself
into its own place within my system,
'But, er... it got itself
into its own place within my system,
'But, er... it got itself
into its own place within my system,
'where... it's sort of
amongst my rungs of priorities.
'where... it's sort of
amongst my rungs of priorities.
'where... it's sort of
amongst my rungs of priorities.
'And I overcame the fear of it.
Now it doesn't worry me at all.
'And I overcame the fear of it.
Now it doesn't worry me at all.
'And I overcame the fear of it.
Now it doesn't worry me at all.
'You look at how
you can better yourself
'You look at how
you can better yourself
'with your own view
of how things have gone,
'with your own view
of how things have gone,
'with taking on life experiences
and learning more over the years,
'with taking on life experiences
and learning more over the years,
'with taking on life experiences
and learning more over the years,
'and, hopefully,
making me able to develop ME more.'
'and, hopefully,
making me able to develop ME more.'
'and, hopefully,
making me able to develop ME more.'
I mean, I'm me.
What you see is what you get.
I mean, I'm me.
What you see is what you get.
I mean, I'm me.
What you see is what you get.
I'm happy overall
with the way my life has gone.
I'm happy overall
with the way my life has gone.
I'm happy overall
with the way my life has gone.
CHILDREN CHATTER
CHILDREN CHATTER
I can't find the beginning.
'If I can change in the world,
I'd change it into land.'
'If I can change in the world,
I'd change it into land.'
'I mean, what do you think is
'I mean, what do you think is
'the greatest danger to our planet?'
'the greatest danger to our planet?'
'From age 13, I've been concerned
about us polluting it.
'From age 13, I've been concerned
about us polluting it.
'You know, that's been the theme
of my life professionally.
'You know, that's been the theme
of my life professionally.
'I'm very concerned
about what's gonna happen.
'I mean, I'm scared
we're gonna have oceans
'I mean, I'm scared
we're gonna have oceans
'that are depleted of oxygen
'that are depleted of oxygen
'and full of nothing but jellyfish,
and, er...
'and full of nothing but jellyfish,
and, er...
'And I'm worried
about fish stocks plummeting
'And I'm worried
about fish stocks plummeting
'and drought
in all sorts of parts of the world.
'And, yes,
those things are upon us.'
'And, yes,
those things are upon us.'
I don't know
if that's why we're getting
all this migration out of Africa,
probably not quite yet,
all this migration out of Africa,
probably not quite yet,
but I'm very worried about...
..vast numbers of people
being displaced because there's...
..vast numbers of people
being displaced because there's...
..vast numbers of people
being displaced because there's...
their food supplies are in jeopardy.
their food supplies are in jeopardy.
their food supplies are in jeopardy.
Yeah, I'm worried
about those things.
And what about yourself?
What about the future for you?
And what about yourself?
What about the future for you?
Well, I mean...
As you can see, I have lost...
Well, I mean...
As you can see, I have lost...
Well, I mean...
As you can see, I have lost...
I lost 60 pounds in the last year.
I lost 60 pounds in the last year.
I have... I am seriously ill.
I have a cancer in my throat.
I have... I am seriously ill.
I have a cancer in my throat.
I have... I am seriously ill.
I have a cancer in my throat.
I have... I am seriously ill.
I have a cancer in my throat.
And I don't know
what the prognosis...
you know,
I don't know what's going to happen.
you know,
I don't know what's going to happen.
So I'm not really focused
on the long-term future,
So I'm not really focused
on the long-term future,
So I'm not really focused
on the long-term future,
I'm focused on fairly
short-term futures at the moment.
I'm focused on fairly
short-term futures at the moment.
I'm focused on fairly
short-term futures at the moment.
I'm just keeping going
and not asking too many questions
about the long term.
and not asking too many questions
about the long term.
and not asking too many questions
about the long term.
'I had a stroke last autumn,
'I had a stroke last autumn,
'and apparently,
they asked Cryss numerous times
'and apparently,
they asked Cryss numerous times
'if they should just let me die.'
'if they should just let me die.'
I had no idea
that I was going to be this ill,
I had no idea
that I was going to be this ill,
and I had no idea
I was gonna keep living.
and I had no idea
I was gonna keep living.
But, yes, I think it's a surprise
to my doctors that I'm still around.
But, yes, I think it's a surprise
to my doctors that I'm still around.
But, yes, I think it's a surprise
to my doctors that I'm still around.
Curious, really.
Curious, really.
Cos it's like,
one of them who was saying,
Cos it's like,
one of them who was saying,
"It does happen that people
in your condition survive,"
"It does happen that people
in your condition survive,"
"It does happen that people
in your condition survive,"
but made it clear he didn't...
as sure as...
but made it clear he didn't...
as sure as...
sure as something or other,
didn't expect it.
sure as something or other,
didn't expect it.
OK
They should train them
to be more tactful.
They should train them
to be more tactful.
But I don't remember anything.
I don't remember how long
this has been going on.
I don't remember how long
this has been going on.
I remember being in the hospital,
and they wouldn't let me have
a drink of water,
and they wouldn't let me have
a drink of water,
cos they said I might choke on it.
But that's...
I remember a few things,
But that's...
I remember a few things,
but I don't know, I've been...
for the last few months,
have been...
for the last few months,
have been...
..zooming out to the hospital
or to a clinic
..zooming out to the hospital
or to a clinic
to have fluid drained off myself,
to have fluid drained off myself,
and that process
is really exhausting as well.
and that process
is really exhausting as well.
Everybody else has had
to just pick up all the slack.
Everybody else has had
to just pick up all the slack.
I feel awful about it.
And I'm gonna burst
into tears repeatedly.
And I'm gonna burst
into tears repeatedly.
And I just...
hobble around on my walker,
And I just...
hobble around on my walker,
and when I get to the hospital,
they've gotta get me
into a wheelchair just instantly
they've gotta get me
into a wheelchair just instantly
cos I can't cope. I mean, I can...
cos I can't cope. I mean, I can...
My son wanted to take me
for a haircut yesterday.
My son wanted to take me
for a haircut yesterday.
I got out of the car,
and I took two strides
and said, "I can't do this."
And he just looked at me,
he didn't believe me.
And he just looked at me,
he didn't believe me.
But I had to get back in the car
and come back.
But I had to get back in the car
and come back.
I could not get from the car
to the... to the barbers.
I could not get from the car
to the... to the barbers.
I could not get from the car
to the... to the barbers.
And it was just like ten paces away.
I was gonna collapse.
And it was just like ten paces away.
I was gonna collapse.
And it was just like ten paces away.
I was gonna collapse.
'What has been
the saddest thing?'
'What has been
the saddest thing?'
I mean, right now, I'm...
I'm struggling with being ill,
I mean, right now, I'm...
I'm struggling with being ill,
I mean, right now, I'm...
I'm struggling with being ill,
and I'm very sad for the people
who are being affected by that.
and I'm very sad for the people
who are being affected by that.
and I'm very sad for the people
who are being affected by that.
Are you frightened about it?
Are you frightened about it?
Not for myself but for them a bit.
Not for myself but for them a bit.
Yeah, I'm frightened for them.
Cryss, can I pass you some stuff?
Of course, sweetheart.
Cryss, can I pass you some stuff?
Of course, sweetheart.
He's been
absolutely wonderful, Cryss.
He's been
absolutely wonderful, Cryss.
'Oh, well, I don't just think
about my illness.
'I don't think about the illness
all that much.
'I don't think about the illness
all that much.
'In a way, I mean, I'm quite scared
of going in for my next scan.'
'In a way, I mean, I'm quite scared
of going in for my next scan.'
'In a way, I mean, I'm quite scared
of going in for my next scan.'
I think it's kind of
stupid of me, really,
cos I spend far more energy than...
I would like to
cos I spend far more energy than...
I would like to
worrying about what
they're gonna find on the next scan
worrying about what
they're gonna find on the next scan
and what they'll do
if they find something I don't like.
and what they'll do
if they find something I don't like.
and what they'll do
if they find something I don't like.
But that doesn't mean
that's what I spend most of my time
thinking about.
that's what I spend most of my time
thinking about.
'I've had this lifelong process
of jumping in with both feet
'I've had this lifelong process
of jumping in with both feet
'I've had this lifelong process
of jumping in with both feet
'into things that were intimidating
'into things that were intimidating
'and that I could easily have said,
"No, I can't do this."
'and that I could easily have said,
"No, I can't do this."
'And, you know, in the Dales,
you just push through,
'And, you know, in the Dales,
you just push through,
'and you push through,
and you push through, and...
'and you push through,
and you push through, and...
'For various reasons,
I've just kept pushing through
'For various reasons,
I've just kept pushing through
'and trying to do things.
'But the film has helped with that.'
'But the film has helped with that.'
'So, what did you think
of it all?'
'Good for a laugh.
'Who was that strange kid
with his head between his knees?
'Who was that strange kid
with his head between his knees?
'I don't know.
What a pathetic character.'
'I don't know.
What a pathetic character.'
'Was it... Is it serious enough?
'Was it... Is it serious enough?
'It's not serious.'
'It's entertaining,
it's interesting.'
'It's entertaining,
it's interesting.'
But what are the serious
implications of the programme,
But what are the serious
implications of the programme,
do you think? Are there any?
Not any obvious ones.
Not any obvious ones.
Well, I mean, we were talking
about my ambitions as a scientist.
Well, I mean, we were talking
about my ambitions as a scientist.
I mean, my ambition as a scientist
is to be more famous for doing
science than for being in this film.
is to be more famous for doing
science than for being in this film.
But, unfortunately, Michael,
it's not gonna happen!
But, unfortunately, Michael,
it's not gonna happen!
'To me,
this is tremendously important.
'To me,
this is tremendously important.
'In my life, there's always been
another episode of this coming up,
'In my life, there's always been
another episode of this coming up,
'In my life, there's always been
another episode of this coming up,
'and it's kind of exciting.'
So I'll miss it. I mean, you know,
when you guys pack up and leave,
So I'll miss it. I mean, you know,
when you guys pack up and leave,
So I'll miss it. I mean, you know,
when you guys pack up and leave,
and I'm fairly sure
we're not gonna do this again,
and I'm fairly sure
we're not gonna do this again,
I think I'll feel
that there's a hole in...
I think I'll feel
that there's a hole in...
..things that I haven't experienced
since I was six.
..things that I haven't experienced
since I was six.
..things that I haven't experienced
since I was six.
It's been with me since I was six.
'You know how you see this
time-lapse photography of a flower,
'You know how you see this
time-lapse photography of a flower,
'and, you know, it blossoms
and then fades away and so on?
'and, you know, it blossoms
and then fades away and so on?
'And it's amazing
to see a flower grow
'And it's amazing
to see a flower grow
'and then decay
in a couple of minutes.
'and then decay
in a couple of minutes.
'Well, seeing that with a person
is also amazing
'Well, seeing that with a person
is also amazing
'because we don't see that.
'because we don't see that.
We're so busy seeing
the day-to-day life of a person
We're so busy seeing
the day-to-day life of a person
that we don't see the big picture
of how they change over time.
that we don't see the big picture
of how they change over time.
CHILDREN SHOUT,
SQUEAL
CHILDREN SHOUT,
SQUEAL
There's teddy bears in that room!
There's teddy bears in that room!
'We've brought
these 20 children together
'We've brought
these 20 children together
'for the very first time.
'They're like any other children,
'except that they come from
startlingly different backgrounds.'
'except that they come from
startlingly different backgrounds.'
'except that they come from
startlingly different backgrounds.'
'The point of
this programme, really, I suppose,
'The point of
this programme, really, I suppose,
'is whether or not you can see
the man in the seven-year-old.
'is whether or not you can see
the man in the seven-year-old.
'What are your thoughts about that?'
Yeah. Still.
Yeah. Still.
For myself, I can still
see myself there. I...
For myself, I can still
see myself there. I...
For myself, I can still
see myself there. I...
I think what I was like then,
I'm still the same.
I think what I was like then,
I'm still the same.
I think what I was like then,
I'm still the same.
Still...
..stilted in speech and...
..stilted in speech and...
..not overly confident.
..not overly confident.
'If you looked at most of us,
there are a couple of exceptions.
'If you looked at most of us,
there are a couple of exceptions.
'If you looked at most of us,
there are a couple of exceptions.
But I guess most of us
have probably...
But I guess most of us
have probably...
..kept pretty much
to what we were born into.
..kept pretty much
to what we were born into.
So maybe... maybe that is...
So maybe... maybe that is...
maybe there is some truth
in that Jesuit saying.
maybe there is some truth
in that Jesuit saying.
maybe there is some truth
in that Jesuit saying.
My daughter-in-law said,
"You know, since you've retired,
My daughter-in-law said,
"You know, since you've retired,
"you've got the sense of fun
that you had as a child.
"you've got the sense of fun
that you had as a child.
"you've got the sense of fun
that you had as a child.
"Because you don't have
the pressures of work,
"Because you don't have
the pressures of work,
"you're more relaxed."
She actually described it
as childishness.
She actually described it
as childishness.
CHUCKLES
'Everybody is who they are,
or who they were, at seven.
'Everybody is who they are,
or who they were, at seven.
'When you saw the first programme,
and you saw them in the zoo
'When you saw the first programme,
and you saw them in the zoo
'When you saw the first programme,
and you saw them in the zoo
'and in the parties
and everywhere...
'and in the parties
and everywhere...
'Yeah, I think
they're the same people.
'Yeah, I think
they're the same people.
'We're all the same people.'
Stop it at once!
I was very indignant
because somebody was throwing buns
at the polar bears,
because somebody was throwing buns
at the polar bears,
despite there being
a "no polar bear feeding"...
despite there being
a "no polar bear feeding"...
"don't feed the bears" sign,
and, erm...
"don't feed the bears" sign,
and, erm...
That's again a typical...
That's again a typical...
you know, slightly horrible,
bossy little John, you know?
you know, slightly horrible,
bossy little John, you know?
Laying down the law.
Laying down the law, yes, exactly!
Laying down the law.
Laying down the law, yes, exactly!
I've never bought into the idea
that, seven year old, you know,
there is the man.
that, seven year old, you know,
there is the man.
That's... That's just not true.
'You encounter different
circumstances, different people
'You encounter different
circumstances, different people
'who have a huge impact
on your life. I certainly did.
'who have a huge impact
on your life. I certainly did.
'And I think, therefore, you become
more than that seven-year-old.'
'And I think, therefore, you become
more than that seven-year-old.'
'And I think, therefore, you become
more than that seven-year-old.'
As a person,
I believe that you're there
As a person,
I believe that you're there
in your traits
and in some of your attitudes.
in your traits
and in some of your attitudes.
in your traits
and in some of your attitudes.
'I don't think when you are seven,
you are defined,
'I don't think when you are seven,
you are defined,
'I think you are there
to be moulded.'
'I think you are there
to be moulded.'
And that depends
on so many aspects in your life.
And that depends
on so many aspects in your life.
You need the right people
around you,
You need the right people
around you,
and if you're lucky enough
to get that,
and if you're lucky enough
to get that,
then you've got a really good chance
of turning out to be
then you've got a really good chance
of turning out to be
the man or woman that you should be.
the man or woman that you should be.
'I've given up any notion
of objectivity.
'I've given up any notion
of objectivity.
'I mean, you know,
I care about them all,
'and it's the favourite thing
I've ever done,
'and it's the favourite thing
I've ever done,
'the thing I'm most proud of.
'the thing I'm most proud of.
'It's nerve-wracking, because you
always think you're gonna blow it.
'It's nerve-wracking, because you
always think you're gonna blow it.
'And I've learned
a lot of lessons about it.
'And I've learned
a lot of lessons about it.
'A lot of them
had found real comfort
'A lot of them
had found real comfort
'in their families
and their extended families.
'in their families
and their extended families.
'I was of the belief in my life
that you can't have everything.
'I was of the belief in my life
that you can't have everything.
'You know, that I had pursued
a career, I was ambitious,
'You know, that I had pursued
a career, I was ambitious,
'and I paid a price for it,
'I wasn't as good a father
or a husband as I should have been.
'I wasn't as good a father
or a husband as I should have been.
'I wasn't as good a father
or a husband as I should have been.
'And sometimes, I thought,
"Well, maybe that's my way,
'And sometimes, I thought,
"Well, maybe that's my way,
' "and maybe that's the right way."
'But then I saw the payoff
that people who'd put
'But then I saw the payoff
that people who'd put
'their energies into their families
'and their loyalties
into their families,
'and their loyalties
into their families,
'that at this age,
in their mid-50s, you know,
'that at this age,
in their mid-50s, you know,
'they'd got real pleasure
and power from it.'
'they'd got real pleasure
and power from it.'
'they'd got real pleasure
and power from it.'
This, sitting in front
of a camera, is not easy.
This, sitting in front
of a camera, is not easy.
This, sitting in front
of a camera, is not easy.
You have to think on your feet, and
sometimes, you talk utter rubbish.
You have to think on your feet, and
sometimes, you talk utter rubbish.
But Michael was the calm voice,
the calm voice,
But Michael was the calm voice,
the calm voice,
and you knew you could rely on him.
and you knew you could rely on him.
He knew us, he knew me.
He knew us, he knew me.
So you could sort of settle into it.
So you could sort of settle into it.
And... Yeah. He was a lovely man.
And... Yeah. He was a lovely man.
Now, Michael Apted,
the director best known
Now, Michael Apted,
the director best known
for the iconic Seven Up series
of documentaries on ITV,
for the iconic Seven Up series
of documentaries on ITV,
has died at the age of 79.
has died at the age of 79.
'The World Is Not Enough'
by Garbage
'The World Is Not Enough'
by Garbage
'It's the first American feature
'by the talented young
English director Michael Apted,
'by the talented young
English director Michael Apted,
'and it's won
seven Oscar nominations.'
'and it's won
seven Oscar nominations.'
'He'd developed
early-onset dementia,
'He'd developed
early-onset dementia,
'which we didn't know at the time.
'which we didn't know at the time.
'When we came to make 63 Up, he was
having really serious memory issues.
'When we came to make 63 Up, he was
having really serious memory issues.
'When we came to make 63 Up, he was
having really serious memory issues.
'And, erm... a year later,
he had a terrible fall,
'And, erm... a year later,
he had a terrible fall,
'and that aggravated his dementia.'
'and that aggravated his dementia.'
It was a sad thing, I could...
you can still picture him,
you know, like...
you can still picture him,
you know, like...
making you smile and laugh,
although you wouldn't think
making you smile and laugh,
although you wouldn't think
that he... as a director, he would
be doing that, but he used to do it.
that he... as a director, he would
be doing that, but he used to do it.
While he always wanted to become
While he always wanted to become
a big Hollywood film director,
a big Hollywood film director,
he always had a great fondness
for this series
he always had a great fondness
for this series
and would always come back to do it,
whatever he was doing.
and would always come back to do it,
whatever he was doing.
You know, and it would have been
an interruption to his schedule.
You know, and it would have been
an interruption to his schedule.
You know, and it would have been
an interruption to his schedule.
And, you know,
I'm sorry he's not here.
And, you know,
I'm sorry he's not here.
Every time I talk about Michael,
I get quite emotional
because, erm...
I get quite emotional
because, erm...
..I really loved him.
He was like a diamond
out of a jeweller's
He was like a diamond
out of a jeweller's
He was like a diamond
out of a jeweller's
that you hold in your hand,
with this documentary, and say,
"That was the man that did it."
with this documentary, and say,
"That was the man that did it."
with this documentary, and say,
"That was the man that did it."
It's really difficult. I miss him.
It's really difficult. I miss him.
There are parts of him I don't miss,
but that goes for anybody,
I think, you know.
but that goes for anybody,
I think, you know.
but that goes for anybody,
I think, you know.
He's, erm...
He was one of the nicest,
most respectful men,
He was one of the nicest,
most respectful men,
as far as this programme
is concerned,
as far as this programme
is concerned,
that I think could have done it.
He's... He opened doors,
He's... He opened doors,
it opened things up to me
that I would never have seen.
it opened things up to me
that I would never have seen.
But he could be infuriating.
So, I have to ask you,
did you get married too young?
So, I have to ask you,
did you get married too young?
No.
Michael, you have a nerve!
You can ask ag... I mean, you ask
this in virtually every programme.
You can ask ag... I mean, you ask
this in virtually every programme.
BALLOONS POP,
CHILDREN SCREAM
BALLOONS POP,
CHILDREN SCREAM
♪ People say that I love you
♪ People say that I love you
♪ And you know it's true
♪ And you know it's true
♪ If you said that you loved me
♪ If you said that you loved me
♪ What could I do, ooh?
♪ What could I do, ooh?
♪ What could I do, ooh?
♪ What would I do if you left me?
♪ What would I do if you left me?
♪ What would I do if you left me?
♪ What would I do in the... ♪
♪ What would I do in the... ♪
We lost Lynn a few years ago.
We lost Lynn a few years ago.
We've now lost Nick,
we've now lost Michael.
We've now lost Nick,
we've now lost Michael.
We all started off
as a little bunch,
and suddenly
there are people missing,
and suddenly
there are people missing,
people from the jigsaw are missing.
And that's quite a... You suddenly
think of your own mortality.
And that's quite a... You suddenly
think of your own mortality.
And that's quite a... You suddenly
think of your own mortality.
I hope it doesn't involve
too many doctors
I hope it doesn't involve
too many doctors
and hospitals
and that sort of thing.
and hospitals
and that sort of thing.
My ideal would be to...
My ideal would be to...
..break my neck
after a good day's hunting,
..break my neck
after a good day's hunting,
just as the hounds
are about to go home.
just as the hounds
are about to go home.
♪ I'll always follow you
Tell you... ♪
♪ I'll always follow you
Tell you... ♪
♪ I'll always follow you
Tell you... ♪
I had one dream when all the world
was on top... top of me,
I had one dream when all the world
was on top... top of me,
I had one dream when all the world
was on top... top of me,
and everything was on it,
and I just about got out,
and everything was on it,
and I just about got out,
and everything was on it,
and I just about got out,
and everything flew up in the air.
and everything flew up in the air.
It all landed on my head.
It all landed on my head.
Death is two things.
Death is two things.
Death is the end of all things,
but it could be...
Death is the end of all things,
but it could be...
Death is the end of all things,
but it could be...
..an open door to somewhere else.
..an open door to somewhere else.
And I sort of like to feel
we don't just disappear into the...
And I sort of like to feel
we don't just disappear into the...
And I sort of like to feel
we don't just disappear into the...
you know, into the ground
or into a crematorium.
you know, into the ground
or into a crematorium.
you know, into the ground
or into a crematorium.
Where does your soul go?
I think probably
if you leave behind you...
I think probably
if you leave behind you...
..people who speak warmly of you...
..people who speak warmly of you...
..that will do for me
as an afterlife.
..that will do for me
as an afterlife.
But in terms of the meaning of it,
But in terms of the meaning of it,
well, the meaning of it
is to live it.
well, the meaning of it
is to live it.
The meaning of life is to live it.
And that's it.
The meaning of life is to live it.
And that's it.
You have to learn to be kind
to other people
You have to learn to be kind
to other people
and forgive people, you know?
and forgive people, you know?
For their failings.
And if there's things
that you don't like about people,
And if there's things
that you don't like about people,
you've gotta try and look for
the things that are good about them.
you've gotta try and look for
the things that are good about them.
Live the best honest life you can,
Live the best honest life you can,
and then rich yourself and
your family with your family life.
and then rich yourself and
your family with your family life.
The happier families are,
it just goes on...
you know, spreads out, doesn't it?
it just goes on...
you know, spreads out, doesn't it?
All I can think
is just be kind to people.
All I can think
is just be kind to people.
It's coming to an end now.
Yes.
It's coming to an end now.
Yes.
How does that feel?
That feels wonderful.
How does that feel?
That feels wonderful.
ANDREW LAUGHS
No, it's... There's a good symmetry
between 7 and 70, isn't there?
No, it's... There's a good symmetry
between 7 and 70, isn't there?
No, it's... There's a good symmetry
between 7 and 70, isn't there?
That's a good time to close it.
I certainly don't wanna be...
That's a good time to close it.
I certainly don't wanna be...
That's a good time to close it.
I certainly don't wanna be...
Another seven years might be
pushing it a bit, you know?
Another seven years might be
pushing it a bit, you know?
LAUGHS
So it's nice to go out when we're...
So it's nice to go out when we're...
..most of us
are reasonably healthy and...
..most of us
are reasonably healthy and...
..early on in our retirements.
..early on in our retirements.
You know, a bit like
when you're a child,
you have the whole of your life
ahead of you,
you have the whole of your life
ahead of you,
now we've got our retirements
ahead of us.
now we've got our retirements
ahead of us.
My life has been great.
My life has been great.
So thank you very much
for this programme.
So thank you very much
for this programme.
And thank you...
Oh! I didn't expect
to get emotional, sorry.
Oh! I didn't expect
to get emotional, sorry.
It's, erm...
I'm just glad to have had
the opportunity to do this,
I'm just glad to have had
the opportunity to do this,
because it is very special.
because it is very special.
It is an extraordinary legacy.
It is an extraordinary legacy.
A part of my little life story,
A part of my little life story,
and I'm a nobody,
I'm just a normal person.
and I'm a nobody,
I'm just a normal person.
And my little life story's
on film forever.
And my little life story's
on film forever.
And my little life story's
on film forever.
And that's the one thing
that I've taken from this programme,
is that...
that I've taken from this programme,
is that...
..my story is special
because it's been seen.
..my story is special
because it's been seen.
..my story is special
because it's been seen.
Not because it is special,
just because it's been seen.
Not because it is special,
just because it's been seen.
Not because it is special,
just because it's been seen.
How many other people can say that,
that their story from seven to 70...
How many other people can say that,
that their story from seven to 70...
How many other people can say that,
that their story from seven to 70...
..has been on television?
Nobody. Well, virtually nobody!
Nobody. Well, virtually nobody!
Yeah, so that's what I get from it.
Yeah, so that's what I get from it.
So, it's not about education,
So, it's not about education,
whether Oxford, Cambridge,
primary, comprehensive schools.
whether Oxford, Cambridge,
primary, comprehensive schools.
whether Oxford, Cambridge,
primary, comprehensive schools.
It's about what life's got to offer.
It's about what life's got to offer.
I think it's now, it's...
I think it's now, it's...
it's a film about...
..living a human life.
Ooh!
For me, personally, what a life,
For me, personally, what a life,
what experiences it's given me.
what experiences it's given me.
Cos... I've loved it, I've loved it.
Cos... I've loved it, I've loved it.
CHUCKLES
And with that,
I'm saying done, finished, over.
And with that,
I'm saying done, finished, over.
And with that,
I'm saying done, finished, over.
Thank you.
Ooh, Jesus,
I don't believe I did that. Ooh!
Ooh, Jesus,
I don't believe I did that. Ooh!
Ooh, Jesus,
I don't believe I did that. Ooh!
Oof!
Oof! I need a bloody gin.
LAUGHS
Oof! I need a bloody gin.
LAUGHS
Woohoo!
Woohoo!
'At the end
of their very special day in London,
'At the end
of their very special day in London,
'we took our children
to an adventure playground,
'we took our children
to an adventure playground,
'where they could do
just what they liked.
'where they could do
just what they liked.
'Those from a children's home
set about building a house.
'Those from a children's home
set about building a house.
'Paul...
'..and Symon.
'There's Nicholas...
'..and Tony.
'Andrew...
'..John...
'..and Bruce.
'Jackie and her friends.
'Give me a child until he is seven,
and I will give you the man.
'Give me a child until he is seven,
and I will give you the man.
'Give me a child until he is seven,
and I will give you the man.
'This has been a glimpse
of Britain's future.'
'This has been a glimpse
of Britain's future.'
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01x02 - Episode 2
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Follows participants as pensioners and retirees as they reflect on their triumphs, trials and tribulations, and what happened to their hopes and dreams.
Follows participants as pensioners and retirees as they reflect on their triumphs, trials and tribulations, and what happened to their hopes and dreams.