03x04 - Truckstop Video Vendetta

[bunniefuu]

-[sirens wailing]
-[all yelling on video]

She sent the video to your employer
and your employer fired you.

Something like that, yes.

No.

Tell me what proof you have
that she sent it.

Um...

No, no. I want you to think about it.

My witness was supposed to be here.

Should've, would've, could've.

[announcer]
This is Judy Justice.

[theme music playing]

[announcer] Stephanie Perez is suing
her ex-boyfriend, Matthew Bowen,

for money she loaned him
for attorney fees.

[Kevin]
Court, come to order. All rise.

Have a seat, please.

-[Kevin] Hello, Judge.
-[Judy] How are you, Kevin?

Case number 3015,
Perez versus Bowen.

-Thank you.
-You're welcome.

Interesting. Ms. Perez,
you met Mr. Bowen at a truck stop.

Tell me when that was
and how that happened.

In January,
and we both worked there.

January of this year, 2023?

-[Stephanie] Of last year.
-2022.

Yes.

And you began dating,
and you at some point moved into his home.

[Stephanie] I was staying there,
helping with his kids.

-[Judy] Well, you were staying there?
-Yes, I still had my own home.

So you were staying there. Were you there
five days a week, seven days a week?

The whole two months.

[Judy] Okay, so you were living there
for two months.

-Yes.
-[Judy] Who was living in your house?

Nobody.

I assume you weren't just staying there
to take care of his kids,

that the two of you were a couple
during that two-month period.

This is what your case is about.

During that period of time,
Mr. Bowen had physical custody

full-time of his children.

Two children?

Correct, Your Honor.

[Judy]
And how long had you had custody of them?

I've had custody of them since 2020.

-So since they were infants.
-[Matthew] Pretty much, yes.

[Judy] Did you then have
court-ordered legal custody?

Yes, ma'am.

[Judy] There came a time
while you were living together,

according to the complaint that I read,
that the mother came back into the picture

and was seeking custody of the children.

Correct.

[Judy]
And Mr. Bowen needed an attorney.

[Stephanie] Yes.

It is your claim that you loaned him
$2,000 for an attorney.

[Stephanie] Yes.

Things didn't work out
between the two of you and you left.

And it was an unpleasant parting.
It was not an amicable parting.

Would that be a fair statement?

[Matthew] Fair.

[Judy]
A fair statement?

For a while, we remained friends
after that, too, though.

Well, his counterclaim
is gonna challenge that.

Right.

[Judy] Anyway, you want
your $2,000 back.

Yes.

I don't know what
Mr. Bowen says about the $2,000.

Maybe that you gave it to him as a gift.

He's gonna tell me,
but he's got a counterclaim,

and his counterclaim is that
you got so angry with him

that in a thoroughly vindictive way

you sent a video
to his place of employment

which caused him to be fired.

Correct.

[Judy] And that, in addition,
you aligned yourself

with the mother of his children,
who was seeking custody of the children.

[Matthew]
Two mothers.

Two mothers. There are two...

Yes, two different mothers. Yeah.

-[Judy] You've been busy.
-Yeah.

You aligned yourself with those people
and created serious difficulty for him

by sharing not only the video with them,

but also some photographs of him
with a BB g*n.

Correct, ma'am.

[Judy]
Do you still have custody of the children?

She filed an ex parte order
which the plaintiff had a help in

and I lost the kids in January,

and then I got them back in February,

and then we just finally got
through the court paperwork

to where I have them full-time again.

The judge still has to, like, finalize it.

Okay, so what you're telling me
is that in January,

on an ex parte application...

ex parte, that means just
the mothers went in themselves...

some judge transferred custody
without a hearing?

[Matthew]
Yes, that's exactly what happened.

[groans]

[Matthew] And they originally set it out
for, like, eight months

to where I could...
where I wouldn't even be seen.

[Judy]
It used to get me so frustrated, but...

It was a tough time.

-[Judy] It was a tough time.
-[Matthew] Very much.

-[Judy] Actually outrageous.
-[Matthew] Yeah.

And then the children came back to you.

Yeah, actually, in February 12,
the mother kind of,

"Oh, I can't do this by myself,"
and she brought them back.

And then I've had them since then
the whole time.

And we just did last week
finalize the paperwork,

so we're just waiting.

All right, let's deal with
this $2,000 legal fee.

Mr. Bowen, did Ms. Perez
give you $2,000?

-Yes, ma'am, she did.
-[Judy] Okay.

Tell me the circumstances
surrounding her giving you $2,000.

[Matthew] Okay. So in June,
one of the mothers of my children

wanted to take
the custody of the kids back.

Not both children, one?

Well, this was one.

And then I have another kid.

They got involved
and she did an ex parte order

using the exact same paperwork.

Word for word,
everything was the same.

Pretty much copy and pasted
one to the other.

You're going into too much
information for me.

I like this all linear.

[Matthew]
Yes, ma'am.

Okay. June 2022.

We were looking for an attorney.

She actually was gonna give me $7,000
for an attorney that her mother had used,

but I was like, "That's way too much,
so let's try to find something cheaper."

And that's where we found somebody.

[Judy]
Well, this is a "we." This is not...

-Well, me and her.
-This is really your problem.

[Matthew] Right.

This is really your problem.

I wanna know how she got involved
with giving you money.

[Matthew]
"I'll give you the money, no problem.

Here, do you want $7,000

for this lawyer in Bakersfield
that my mother used

who I know is a rock star?"

And I said, "No, let's find
something else a little bit local-er."

And we found...
I found the one in Lancaster for 3,500.

And did you go
to the attorney in Lancaster?

[Matthew]
Yes, ma'am.

Did you go with her or alone?

I went by myself.

Did you ask her
if she wanted to go with you?

[Matthew] No.

[Judy]
Okay, so you went by yourself.

Yes, ma'am.

And when you went to the lawyer,
you got a fee.

You were quoted a fee?

Yes, 3,500.

When you were at the office,
that would be in June.

[Matthew] Yes.

And when you got that quote
and you liked that lawyer...

-Yes.
-[Judy] ...then I assume you went home

to where Ms. Perez
was taking care of your children.

Yes, ma'am.

Which she was doing, by the way.

-Yes. Yes.
-[Judy] Correct?

You weren't paying her anything?

-[Matthew] No, not at all.
-No.

And she was still paying for her own house
where she maintained another residence.

Yes, yes.

She was there because her children
went to another state for the summer.

So she just stayed with me
while the kids were gone for summer.

She stayed with you for a reason.
She didn't stay with you...

I assume you don't live in a lake.

-[Matthew] No, no.
-[Judy] No.

Well, you don't live at the beach, right?

[Matthew]
I wish, but no.

[Judy]
No, but you don't live at the beach.

So now you've got
a lawyer's quote for $3,500.

You go home to Ms. Perez
and you say, "Dear, I like this lawyer.

He only charges $3,500."

Is that something like the conversation?

-Something like that, yes.
-[Judy] Something like that.

Now I wanna hear where
the $2,000 came from.

I want you to think and focus.
Look at me.

And that requires,
"I owed her for lamb chops she bought.

I owed her for a plumber she paid for."

or "I owed her for a..."

Lawyer fee.

Perfect!

[theme music playing]

[announcer] Stephanie Perez
claims her ex-boyfriend,

Matthew Bowen,
owes for an unpaid loan.

Matthew is countersuing
for lost wages and slander.

Now I wanna hear where
the $2,000 came from.

-Um, I had...
-[Judy] No, no.

I said, "Dear, I like this lawyer.

He's only $3,500."

She says, "Here's 2,000,"
and I had 1,500, and we made it happen.

Okay. "Here's 2,000."

[Matthew] Yep. Yes.

And you said, "I have 1,500."

[Matthew] Correct.

Well, you must have said
"I have 1,500" first.

Yeah. Yes, ma'am.

You must have said,
"His fee is 3,500, I have 1,500,"

because otherwise she wouldn't have
known to say, "Here's 2,000."

-[Matthew] Correct. Correct, Your Honor.
-Right?

So let's try to get it right.

Yes, Your Honor.

You went home and you said, "Dear..."

[chuckles] I have $1,500,
the lawyer's 2,000.

[Judy] And?

And we need to make it happen.

I need to make it happen.

Were those your words,
"I need to make it happen"?

Um...

[Judy]
No, no. I want you to think about it.

Don't pull information out of an orifice.

Just, if you don't remember, say,
"I don't remember exactly what I said."

Then I don't remember
exactly what was said.

-[Judy] Okay, you don't remember.
-Correct.

[Judy]
Do you remember exactly how it happened?

Yes.

Voila! Love it.

Okey-dokey. Go.

He needed 3,500
and I would only give him 2,000

-because I didn't have any more.
-Well, no, I...

I wanna hear the conversation.

Okay, he said it was 35.
I said that I could...

-No. He came home from the lawyer.
-He came home.

And you must have said,
"What happened?"

Or some...
I wanna hear the conversation.

He actually had talked to them on
the phone and they quoted him that price.

-Okay. Oh.
-He needed the money to go over there.

-So...
-Oh, that's a different story.

You see, she remembers. Perfect.

So he spoke to the lawyer on the phone?

[Stephanie] Yes.

[Judy] Tell me.

He said that it was 3,500.

All I was able to help with...
I was off work at the time,

so I used my savings.

I said I can help him put...

I know that you gave him the $2,000.
I wanna hear how it came about.

I told him that I would need help
when my bills came due,

that I would help him with the money,

but I was not working, that he
would have to help me with my bills.

And he agreed to that,
so I wired the money bank-to-bank.

To the lawyer's bank or to his bank?

No, to Mr. Bowen's account
because we have the same bank.

And what was said exactly was,

"You'll have to help me out
with my bills when they come."

[Stephanie] Yes.

And?

-He agreed to that.
-[Judy] Okay.

[Stephanie] I wired the money, he went,
he took care of everything.

And then my bills
started to become due.

-He said he didn't have any money.
-Like what bills? Like what bills?

[Stephanie]
My mortgage, my electric, my gas.

Okay. And you were still living together?

I was still staying in there, yes.

Yes. In what month, July?

Till the end of June.

Well, when did this
transaction take place?

June sixth.

[Judy]
So just a couple of weeks later.

Yes.

Well, where did you expect him
to get you $2,000 from?

[Stephanie]
He was supposed to, as he got...

Well, right now,
you don't have a contract for him.

It wasn't a loan.

Right now, what I'm hearing,

which is why I asked
for the exact terminology,

is saying to him,

"You'll have to help me out
with my bills when they come in"

is not a loan.

I also have a bunch
of text messages asking

and him saying, "Right now,
I know I owe you money.

-Then I'd like to see those.
-[Stephanie] Yes.

These machines
can either be a curse or a godsend.

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Yeah, it doesn't change my position

that there has to be a clear contract
if there's a loan.

"I'm borrowing this money.

I will pay you back this amount of money."

And according to what you told me,
he acknowledges here,

"I'll give you some money when I have it."

That's as vague as,
"You have to help me out with my bills

when they start to come in,"
and he says, "Sure, I'll help you out."

Okay. Now I'm gonna
come to you, Mr. Bowen.

Yes, ma'am.

[Judy] It seems from reading
these text messages

that you acknowledge
that you owe her money.

Yes, ma'am.

[Judy] You acknowledge that
in these text messages.

Okay.

Because you don't say,
"I don't owe you anything."

You say,
"I have a big bill coming in.

You know, I'm sorry,
I'll try to get some to you tomorrow."

Yeah.

So you acknowledge
that you owe her money?

[Matthew]
Yeah, I guess. Yes, Your Honor.

Yes, well, that's what this says.

It's not specific,
but you acknowledge you owe her money.

What do you owe her money for?

Well, I guess...

Not a "well." Not a "well."
'Well" is not an answer.

-All right.
-[Judy] What did you owe her money for?

Don't look at the sky.
I want you to think and focus.

Look at me.

And that requires,
"I owed her for lamb chops she bought.

I owed her for a plumber she paid for."

Or "I owed her for a..."

Lawyer fee.

Perfect!

Perfect.

And the lawyer fee was how much?

Two thousand dollars, ma'am.

Perfect.

And how much of that $2,000
did you give her back?

I've maybe given her $100.

Just a second.

Did he give you any money back?

Yes, ma'am.

Because it does indicate that
he did, in fact, give you some money back.

[Stephanie] Yes.

How much did he give you back?

About what he says, $100.

Okay, so you still owe her $1,900.

There you go.

How great!

So even though you didn't
have a perfect contract...

I know for the future.

Right. Now we have a counterclaim.

[Matthew]
Yes, ma'am.

And the counterclaim is that
you were very annoyed with him,

which is very ridiculous.

Ms. Perez, I understand
from reading your papers,

and I'm trying to read between the lines,

and, you know, you develop a certain
amount of wisdom when you get older.

He had you at the house for two months.

Your kids were away for the summer.

He has these two little kids, right?

And he was using you as a babysitter.

Yes.

And you felt used.

I know. I got very attached to 'em.

To whom? To the children or him?

The kids. [chuckles]

Mm. So according to your answer
and your counterclaim, Mr. Bowen,

you were involved
in an altercation at work.

Yes, ma'am.

[Judy]
Where do you work?

I worked at Love's.

-What is that?
-[Matthew] It's a truck stop.

And it just services pretty much
the big rigs on the road.

[Judy] Okay.

And an incident occurred
while you were working.

Yes, ma'am.

What's the date of the incident?
'Cause I'm gonna see the video.

September 18th.

Of...

[Matthew] 2022.

[Judy]
Tell me what happened.

I'm a cashier, and, you know,
after doing it for so long,

just you pick things up,
you see people coming in

and you know they're up to no good.

I had my eyes on this one character.

And sure enough, he grabs,
like, a $400 party speaker

and a bunch of other
little electronic stuff.

And he's walking out the store,

and I'm trying to get
my coworkers attention,

who were sitting there talking,
like, "Hey! Hey! Stop him! Stop him!

Stop him! He's stealing! He's stealing!"

And then nobody, like, pays attention
and he walks outside.

And that's kind of where it started is...

I said, "Hey, give that stuff back,"
and I swatted the speaker out of his hand,

and that's when he came at me and
he attacked me and I was defending myself.

He had a knife.
Like, once you go ahead, you'll see it.

Like, he had, like, an eight-inch knife.

Now what I need is, from you,

proof that she sent that video.

And I need proof that the reason
you were fired from your job

was because of that video,

Because me,
I would give you a gold star

and make you
employee of the month.

[theme music playing]

[announcer] Stephanie Perez has accused
her ex-boyfriend, Matthew Bowen,

of refusing to pay back a loan.

Matthew is countersuing,

claiming Stephanie got him fired
after sharing a fight video with his job.

Okay, so you were working
and trying to prevent a thief

from leaving the area with property
that you were responsible for.

-Correct.
-[Judy] Okay.

Well, that sounds perfectly reasonable,

unless you're living
in some ridiculous community

that says, "Oh, you've gotta
let everybody steal."

[chuckles]

"And we don't stop shoplifting because.
you know, that's not the American way."

Okay, so you were protecting property

that was your responsibility
because you work at the store.

Right. Correct.

How long had you been
working at this truck stop?

I worked at the store
up until I got let go.

For a year and a half.

Okay, now I'm gonna see the video.

Okay. And just for context,
like, it starts after I swatted

the big old box out of his hand.

Is this the video that you allege

that the plaintiff
sent to your employer...

[Matthew]
Yes, ma'am.

[Judy]
...and to the mother of your children?

Two of them, yes, ma'am.

-To two of the mothers of your children.
-[Matthew] Yes.

In order to assist them in their...

In their ex parte orders, yes.

-[Judy] In their ex parte application.
-Yes.

I have evidence on that, too,
that he asked the baby mom

to lie in court today,
and that's why she wouldn't come.

-I have to tell you something.
-[Stephanie] Okay.

I don't understand why
you would get involved in that anyway.

-I didn't.
-[Judy] Okay.

So you never sent this video?

He send me the video,
but I did not send it to corporate.

You didn't send it to anybody,
is my question.

[Stephanie] No.

[Judy]
You didn't send it to...

He sent it to tons of people.

I'm asking you whether you ever sent it
to his place of business.

No.

Did you ever send it
to either of the people

who are the mother of his children?

No, I only know one of them.

-[Judy] And you didn't send it?
-[Stephanie] No.

Okay, so I'll look at the video.

Then you'll tell me
what proof you have that she sent it.

Yes, ma'am.

-[Judy] Got it? Okay.
-Yes, ma'am.

Take a look.

Back up.

[grunting]

Hey.

Hey, bro, go away.

[Judy chuckles]

Punk!

Is that you?

My adrenaline was pumping,
Your Honor. I apologize.

What were you yelling at, the camera?

[Matthew] At the camera.
Just at the camera, yeah.

[Judy]
Why were you yelling at the camera?

I turned around and seen it.

I didn't even know
the guy was recording it. I just...

Which guy?

[Matthew]
Just a random trucker.

Just a random trucker.

[Judy] Who was recording it
for what reason?

I don't know. You don't know.

[Matthew]
I don't know. He just...

Well, how did you get the recording?

He sent it to one of the guys
that used to work there as well.

Then I got it from him.

He sent it to one of the guys
that used to work at the truck stop.

I'm not gonna say his name,
but he's in the video right there.

Okay, so one of your coworkers.

[Matthew]
Yes, ma'am.

And this guy who was there, the thief...

-[Matthew] Yes.
-...was clearly high on something.

[Matthew] Yes. And then, like,
if you back it up, you, like, you can...

[Judy] Okay.

There's a smidgen where you see the knife.

[Judy]
I get the picture.

Please. I get the picture.

Now what I need is, from you,

proof that she sent that video,
for whatever reason, to your employer,

and I need proof that the reason
you were fired from your job

was because of that video.

Because me,
I would give you a gold star

and make you
employee of the month.

[chuckles]
I would if I owned the truck stop.

So you understand
what you have to prove to me.

Yes.

That she sent the video
to your employer

and your employer fired you
because of the video.

Okay, so my proof on both,
my witness was supposed to be here.

-Should've, would've, could've.
-[Matthew] Yeah, right.

I was supposed to be 5'8",
but I had a short father.

[Matthew] Right, right, I understand that,
but the witness that came with me,

she bailed just like on everything else,
so I don't have any proof of it.

-It was her...
-[Judy] So just a second.

So the answer is,
you don't have any proof of that.

[Matthew] Correct.

Okay, well, that's easy.

And what proof do you have

that she sent that clip of a video

or gave it to one of the mothers
of your children...

[Matthew] Yes.

...in order to assist them
in their custody dispute?

Which is not ill*gal,
but it would be nasty.

I don't.

-[Judy] So you don't.
-I don't, yeah, ma'am.

Well, your counterclaim,
then it's dismissed.

-You understand that?
-Yeah.

[Judy]
And you owe her $1,900.

-[Matthew] Okay.
-Judgment for the plaintiff.

-We're done. Thank you, everyone.
-Thank you.

[Kevin]
This court is adjourned.

It was a gift while we were together.

But as soon as we broke up,
it was, "Oh, now I need my money."

I've asked him for my money
and he refused to give me it.

If you got the right person
to make the team, it's good.

But if you don't
and it's not a solid connection,

it's not worth it.

I'm a single mom.

I don't have money
just to hand out like that.

Documents, get proof of everything.

That's all I can say.

So it's a new phenomenon,

this sort of phones-first approach
to everything.

Phones eat first,
phones watch the fight first...

Phones catch everything first.

I think how the defendant put it,

"a random trucker"
just saw a fight break out

and first instinct
is just get your phone out

and take a video, and we've seen it
in New York City on the subways.

We see too many times people taking video
and no one is helping do anything.

So I felt bad for the defendant.

As you said, you would have given him
a gold star for what he did

if you owned the truck stop.

Opinions differ on that.

Sarah, I'm still confused.

If the owner of a business says,

"I don't want you to confront thieves

because I don't want you
to put your life at risk..."

Yes.

...and that's the reason,
but if they're saying,

"I don't want you to confront thieves

because I'm afraid that they're
gonna be picketing outside my stores

because we confronted a thief
and stopped a thief,"

that's a whole different thing,

and I am still not able

to follow that mindset.

I read something this week

that in a very famous, huge chain,

two employees followed the rules.

They did not try to stop the thief

who was walking out with hundreds
of dollars' worth of merchandise,

but called the police,
and the police stopped them, got them,

and the two employees were fired.

Fired.

I used to say
when I worked in family court

that the first time a kid gets arrested,
there has to be a consequence.

You don't imprison a kid for five years
if they've stolen a bicycle,

but there has to be some consequence,
just as you do with your own children.

You tell them to come in at 10:00.

They come in at 11:30.

There has to be a consequence.

If you don't,
they think, as parents,

you're full of baloney
and there are no rules.

Well, that's what's happening here

when you think
it's okay to go into a store

and steal with impunity.

-I don't understand that.
-I think...

I feel as if I'm living
in some alternative universe.

Okay, got it out of my system.

-Thank you.
-[Sarah] Of course.

[announcer]
Are you having a family dispute?



[theme music playing]