02x133 - Father and Son Scooter Collision

[bunniefuu]

It's your claim
that the Defendant hit your scooter.

Yes, ma'am.

Is that a fair representation
of the accident site?

No, it's not.

How would you know? You wasn't even there.
She wasn't even there.

You called him an idiot!

She's gone.

In front of my son!

Gone! Gone!

[narrator]
This is Judy Justice.

[narrator]
Matthew Klingelhoffer...

is suing fellow motorist,
Robin Major,

for scooter damages
after Robin hit Matthew's scooter.

[Kevin]
Court coming to order. All rise.

Have a seat, everyone.

[Kevin] Hello, Judge.

Case 2197: Klingelhofer vs. Major.

-Thank you.
-Mm-hmm.

You were riding a motor scooter.

-Yes, ma'am.
-Can you describe it for me, please?

It is a 2018 Yamaha Zuma.

Is that a small...?

-No, it's... I got a picture of it here.
-Can I see that, please?

Yeah, well, it's small.

-Yeah, it's a small vehicle...
-And, you were on...

this vehicle with a child?

-Yes, ma'am.
-That was your son who's how old?

Uh, 12.

-What's his name?
-Justin Barr.

-He's not here today.
-No.

-Why not?
-He has autism.

And you were riding with him going where
on October 20th of last year?

I just picked him up from school
and I was on my way home.

How far is it?

Uh, the school is less than a half a mile
from my home.

Do you pick him up every day?

Most of the time, yeah,
but since this accident

I have not pickled him up since.

-Mom does.

So, there's a car available
to pick him up.

-Yes.
-It's your claim that the Defendant,

while acting negligently,
hit your scooter and damaged it.

-Yes, ma'am.
-You want him to be responsible.

That happened on the 22nd of October.

-I assume sometime after three o'clock?
-Yes.

-It was at 3:18...
-In... In what state do you live?

Evansville, Indiana.

Is there any sort of helmet rule
in Indiana?

-No, ma'am.
-Yes, there is.

-My son... for a child, yes, he was...
-Just a second.

So, the answer is either "yes" or "no".

-You said, "No," so there...
-Yes, ma'am, for me, no.

For my son, yes.

-Was your son wearing a helmet?
-Yes, ma'am.

-You know he was not.
-Shh shh. Now, listen to me.

Shh. Don't speak.

He had a small, purple bicycle helmet on.

Now, you wear a helmet because...

To keep him from getting his head hurt.

-Hurt.
-Yeah.

-Well try...
-Right, well, just for my own interest,

why wouldn't you wear a helmet
to prevent you from getting hurt?

Dumb is what dumb does?

Well, that would be an answer,

because that sounds sort of
reckless to me.

Yes, ma'am. I wear a helmet now.

And I'm not so sure your son was wearing
a helmet on the 22nd of October either...

sir, so I want you to be very,
very careful

when I ask you this question again.

Are you positive that your son was wearing
a helmet on the 22nd of October?

-No, ma'am, I wasn't 100% positive.
-Okay.

-But he normally...
-Shh, just a sec.

-Always is wearing a helmet.
-Okay.

On your way home...

I understand you have some sort of a chart
to try to explain to me

what the accident, well,
this is your version of the accident.

So, you want to step over there,
Mr. Klingelhoefer.

-Yes, ma'am.
-That would be you and your son

riding, both of you
probably without helmets

and it looks, that's your version,
and it looks as if...

-I was sitting in traffic... Sorry.
-Shh, just a sec...

And it looks as if
there's a lot of traffic.

-Yes, ma'am.
-So a lot of traffic, no helmets...

You're on your way home and?
Go ahead.

I was just sitting in traffic here
waiting for the train to clear

and he comes off his driveway
and backs right into me.

No horn, no regard of...
Me being there or nothin.

Okay. I... Just a...Just...
Wait, wait one second.

-On the other side... This is your chart.
-Yes, ma'am.

On the other side
of where the defendant's driveway is,

which I assume is the blue car,

that's his driveway, is that a street?

-Yes, ma'am.
-You know where I'm talking about?

-Yes.
-Point to where I'm talking about.

-This is a street called, uh...
-Yes, that's a street.

-Yes.
-And that's a street that has cars.

-Yes, ma'am.
-Right, so,

one would say
you should not be in that intersection.

-Well, I didn't, uh...
-Just a second. Just a second.

One would say, even in your chart,
you should not be in that intersection.

You should be either,
have enough room in front,

or wait until the traffic moves.

Because you're stuck in the middle,
so a car can't move out of...

-That's...
-I was actually sitting about right here.

-Well, this is your chart.
-Yes, ma'am.

So, you indicate that that chart
is not absolutely correct.

No, it's not.

And that your scooter
was right behind the three cars.

I was behind
these three cars here...

But still in the intersection.

-Yes, ma'am, uh...
-Just a second.

We was coming to a rolling stop
as the arms were coming down,

so I didn't know
where I was going to stop at,

so I was rolling with traffic

and the vehicle that was in front of me
was also pulling a trailer

and I couldn't see around it.
It was a big box trailer.

So, you couldn't see
what was in front of you.

No, I could not.

And I... I got as far away
from his driveway as I possibly could.

Well, no. You weren't even thinking
about his driveway, sir.

Let's be square, you know,

it's not a good idea
to make things up as you go.

-No.
-You didn't even know

-that his driveway was there.
-Yeah, I did.

-You did? Just... Just a second.
-I knew it was there,

but I was trying to get far enough
out of the way of the intersection.

I didn't think he was going to come out
of his driveway and back into me, ma'am.

Well so you were watching the other side?
Not the driveway?

-Is that what you're saying?
-Yeah, I was looking at the intersection.

-Yeah. Okay.
-Making sure

I got out of the intersection,
got past the yellow line.

Okay.
So, he clipped the...

-Rear, right by my tail light.
-Yeah.

-Back here.
-Yes, ma'am.

And, what happened?
Go back, now.

-It literally just shoved me over.
-Okay.

Go back.

So, it shoved you over.

Now, when it shoved you over,
did you land on one foot,

or did you land on the pavement?

No, we landed on the pavement.

I tossed my son up
because he was sitting in front of me.

-Up onto his feet.
-Just a... Justa second.

Oh, hold on.

-Hold the phone.
-I went into dad mode.

Hold the phone.

Your son was sitting in front of you.

-Yes.
-That's what... is that what he said?

"He was sitting in front of me."

So, your son was driving?

-No, he was not driving, I was driving...
-I'm trying to get...

I'm trying to get this picture in my head.

-I'm being a protective parent.
-With this little... Just a second.

With this little scooter,
your son was in front of you.

This is one seat,
so he was sitting in front of you.

-Yes, ma'am.
-Your 12 year old.

-Yes, ma'am.
-Yes.

And how tall is your 12 year old?

-Probably about five foot, if that.
-My size.

-Yes.
-So, like a fully grown adult.

He may be not yet fully grown for a kid,
but I'm a fully grown adult

and I'm five feet tall and I've been that
my whole life, so I'm an adult.

Yeah. Yes, ma'am.

Right? Okay. So, your adult child
is sitting in front of you,

you're sitting behind him...

-Yes, ma'am.
-Now, I want you to explain to me...

Hold out your arms.
I want you to explain to me

how your son is in front of you,

you're behind him
in the back part of this seat,

and you're driving.

I want you to explain that to me.

The 12 year old driving the motor scooter.

-He was not driving.
-Well, I don't believe you.

I don't believe you either.

I don't care whether you believe me.

You're not judging me, I'm judging you.

So, that means that if I don't
believe you, that's important.

If you don't believe me,
that is irrelevant.

[narrator]
Matthew Klingelhoefer

claims fellow motorist, Robin Major,

hit Matthew's scooter while Robin
was pulling out of his driveway.

-Go ahead.
-I'm reaching around my son and driving.

I've been doing it since I was 16.
I've been driving scooters since I was 16.

Hey. You may have been driving scooters
when you were 16,

but I've been using my common sense
for 80 years.

And I don't see why
your son wasn't sitting behind you

so you didn't have to lean over

on that big, long seat

in order to be maneuvering this scooter.

I'm not visualizing that,
Mr. Klingelhoefer.

So, I want you to take a deep breath.

Kevin.

Let me see Mr. Major's diagram.

So, I want you...
Your son is sitting in front

-on the seat...
-Mm-hmm.

You're sitting in the raised portion
behind him.

-Mm-hmm.
-I want you to put that down there.

Sitting back there on the raised portion
makes me sit up much higher than him.

-Sarah?
-Mm-hmm?

Does your research indicate
how long this thing is?

Does it give any dimensions?

I'm sure I could find it.

Okay, so, he clipped the back
and you fell off?

We fell over.
I put... stood my son back up,

-I got up...
-Okay, so you fell over

and your son got up...

I got my son up. I got up.

He was still pushing my vehicle.

I got up to smack on the back
of his window.

And then he gets out
and aggressively screaming at me,

"Why you smackin' on my window?
Why are you trying to break my window?"

-Okay.
-I asked him,

"Why are still proceeding
to try to run over my vehicle?"

Well, he's not trying
to run over your vehicle, sir.

What kind of car did he have?

-He had a truck.
-A Chevy Blazer.

-[Judy] Big one.
-[Matthew] 2003.

He's in a very high SUV, right?

-And you're in a very low scooter.
-Mm-hmm.

Now, neither you or your son went
to the hospital, is that right?

No, ma'am, neither one of us went.

Neither you or your son
had medical treatment at the scene.

My son was looked over, but that was it...

Just a second.
Neither of you had medical treatment

-at the scene.
-No, no.

Neither you or your son went to a doctor.

-No.
-Now, do you have a photograph

of what your scooter looked like
after this accident?

Because this is his photograph

[Robin]
That's after the accident.

There's another one.

Okay. I'd like to see what your photograph
looks like, Mr. Klingelhoefer...

[Robin] There's all of 'em.

-I'm working on it, ma'am.
-Of your motorcycle, because

Mr. Majors is handing me up
his photographs of what this looks like.

Here's the whole stack.

Okay. So, what we're talking about is...

this piece right here.

-That's my exhaust and...
-Just a second.

That's what's damaged.

-This piece...
-That and the upper panel, there.

I don't see anything damaged

-in the upper panel...
-On my picture it shows it.

-I'd like to see.
-I bet it does.

-Now, on that muffler...it's rust.
-Shh. Shh. Shh. Shh...

-[Matthew] It's not rust.
-Shh...

-Shh...
-I might not know nothin' about scooters,

-but I know what rust looks like.
-[Judy] Mister...

-Mr. Major.
-Yes, ma'am?

I don't know what's wrong with you.

I made myself clear,
pleasantly, to you, respectfully to you,

but you certainly understood
that here we don't talk to each other.

-Yes, ma'am.
-That you will have a turn.

Right now...

-it's his turn.
-Yes, ma'am.

And, Your Honor,
that wheelbase is 50 inches,

so about four feet wheel to wheel.

Okay, so, let me see.

So, from here to here,
wheel to wheel is four feet.

So, sitting on the back here,

in order to get to the handlebars...

It'd be, like, three feet.

Three feet. Hold out your arms.

Nah. Okay.
Now, just to complete your story, sir,

Mr. Klingelhoefer,
this happened in October.

And you said you wear a motorcycle helmet
now, or a helmet now.

Yes, ma'am. Yes.

-Since the accident.
-Yes, ma'am.

Since this accident.

It scared me straight.

And did you or did you not
have the scooter repaired?

-No, I have not had it repaired...
-Just a second.

So, the answer is no.

-Pay attention Mr. Klingelhoefer.
-I...

From which I deduce,
you're looking at your papers,

from which I deduce
that the motor scooter is operable,

you've been using it since October,
despite the...

-No.
-Oh, yes, that's what you just said.

-I haven't been using it.
-Who's been using it?

I've... I got three others.

No, no, no.

I got three other scooters
that I've been driving.

-I have not been driving that one.
-I don't believe... Just a second.

-I don't believe you, sir.
-Okay.

I want you to be really careful
about what you say to me.

You do wear a helmet now. Now you know
where I'm going Mr. Klingelhoefer?

-Yes.
-Since the accident, so does your son.

There is nothing that appears to be
mechanically wrong

with this motor scooter

in either your photographs or his.

-Nothing mechanical...
-I have an estimate.

I don't care what your estimate says,
sir, my naked eye...

First of all,
you understand that I'm doubting...

I'm doubting big parts of your story,
Mr. Klingelhoefer.

Yes, I understand.
I understand, ma'am.

I doubt big parts of your story about
whether or not you were wearing a helmet.

I don't think your son
was wearing a helmet.

I think that this diagram indicates to me

that you were in a place
where you shouldn't have been.

That's your diagram. He has his own
diagram that'd probably be very different.

So, I am going to assume,
because that's my common sense,

that you and, or, your son
had been riding this motor scooter

since October and that it hasn't sat idly.

I don't care what you got.

Because the pictures belie
the fact that this motor scooter

was damaged beyond being ridable.

And that's if it was his fault.

Okay. Now we've got his picture,
now we're coming to you.

Is that a fair and accurate representation

-of the accident site?
-Yes.

-[woman] No, it's not.
-Yes.

-[Judy] Now...
-How would you know?

You wasn't even there.

You didn't show up


-[Kevin] Hey, hey, excuse me.
-You did not show up...

-She wasn't even there. She's...
-I'm gonna... I'm gonna throw you out.

And you're gonna lose this...

I'm gonna throw you out
and you're gonna lose...

When you called him an idiot!

In front of my son!

Okay. She's gone.

Gone! Gone! Gone!

Yeah.

-I know why you can't afford insurance...
-Gone!

We wouldn't be here today
if he had insurance.

Did you understand
why I threw your wife out?

-Yeah.
-Yeah.

I don't know what you people think
this is all about.

The fact that he had no,
is what you say to me,

he had no insurance
which is why you're here?

Yeah, we wouldn't be here right now
if we didn't... if he had insurance

if insurance would've
took care of all that.

Yeah, well, it's possible,

Mr. Klingelhoefer,
that you wouldn't be here right now

and I haven't made a decision yet
if you weren't driving recklessly,

-without helmets, with your son...
-I wasn't driving recklessly.

with your son who,
according to you, has issues,

the 12-year-old driving the motor scooter.

-He was not driving.
-Well, I don't believe you.

I don't believe you either.

I don't care whether you believe me.
You're not judging me, I'm judging you.

So, that means that if I
don't believe you, that's important.

If you don't believe me,
that is irrelevant.

Were you driving your car uninsured?

-I was moving my car...
-Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no!

Be very careful what you say to me.

You turned the ignition on,

started to move.

That's driving.

[Whitney laughing]

[narrator] Matthew Klingelhoefer

is accusing fellow motorist, Robin Major,

of hitting him and his son

while Robin backed out of his driveway.

Okay, your statement, Mr. Major,
based upon this diagram

is that the defendant pulled out

and was, to sort of beat the traffic,
and was driving not in a lane.

Which suggests to me, sir,

that you saw him.

I didn't see him.

Well, how do you know that he pulled out?

When I was coming backing out,

the car that's adjacent there,
he waved me out.

-You mean the car...
-Behind...

Go over there. I know what you're
talking about, just so that we're clear.

-The car behind said you...
-This here, this car.

As I'm coming out of my driveway

He's... He's saying... He's waving me out.

He's waving you on
to suggest that it's clear.

[Major]
It's clear. So, I'm coming out and...

I didn't see him, Your Honor.

You didn't see him.

-No.
-Okay.

Now, go back.

Now, Mr. Major,
we're going to get to insurance.

Were you driving your car uninsured?

I wasn't driving... I was moving my car...

Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no!
Be very careful what you say to me.

You put a key in the ignition,

you turned the ignition on,

-you put the car in reverse...
-Yes, ma'am.

started to move.

That's driving.

Yes, ma'am.

And driving far enough into the street, so
you weren't on your property according...

-No, my car was still in...
-Oh, no, no, no.

-The front end was still in the driveway.
-Mr. Major. Mr. Major.

You said that that's a fair
and accurate representation

-of the accident scene.
-That's my driveway.

The back of your car is not
in the driveway,

the back of your car
is in a public street.

-Right, I wasn't all the way out.
-That's what you... Yeah, he was...

Listen to me.

Mr. Major,
I'm an equal opportunity ab*ser.

-Yes, well...
-You have to understand that,

so, please, you know,

I'm sort of ancient, but please
don't treat me as if I'm stupid.

-No, I wouldn't do that, Your Honor.
-You know, people confuse age

-with stupidity. That would be a
-No, I would not...

huge mistake on your part.

-Yes.
-Huge.

Unless you're suggesting
he came up on your driveway,

which this doesn't suggest at all,

you were in a public street
without insurance.

-Yes, ma'am.
-Well, that would be an easy.

Did the police respond to this accident?

-Yes, ma'am.
-Is there a police report?

-There...
-[Matthew] Yes, ma'am.

-This is the only thing they gave me.
-[Judy] May I have it, please?

[Matthew] Right here.

"Scuff and scratch marks were observed
on the left side of vehicle two."

That's what the police officer observed.

Now, what did you do after this accident,
Mr. Klingelhoefer?

I called the police.

You got the police, the police came,
they took a report, they spoke to you.

Now, you were picking your son
up from school.

-Yes, ma'am.
-Where did you go?

-I went home.
-You went home with your son?

Now, when you went home with your son,
you were riding in front. Is that correct?

We walked home.

My vehicle was not ridable.

-My exhaust pipe was bent...
-Shh, just a second.

How did you get the motor scooter?

I pushed it.

Did you see him push the motor scooter?

I seen him push it down so far
and then he got on it.

Just a second. Would you bring in
Mr. Klingelhoefer's wife?

-This way. Go left.
-Okay.

Step over next to your husband, please.

Were you at home when your husband came
home with your son after this accident?

-He actually called me...
-Just a second.

-I said were you at home?
-Yes, I was at home.

Who else was home with you?

My brother

and my friend.

You say your husband called you
and he told you about the accident.

-Yes.
-And what did you do?

Me and ... got in the car and we pulled up

and I, I parked
in the middle of the street.

Go over to that chart and show me
where you pulled up.

About right here.

Okay, so, you pulled up
right near where the accident was.

-Yes.
-And where was your husband?

He was right here with Justin.

Okay. Go back.

And then what happened?
Police come.

Police leave. I want you to tell me
what happened next.

After the police
and fire department ambulance leave,

me and Justin walked to where
they told me to park my car,

-so me and Justin got in the car...
-And your husband?

He has already, was walking the scooter
back to our house with ...

And is that how he arrived at the house,
walking with the motor scooter?

-Yes.
-Very good. Kevin?

-She can go out now.
-Okay.

This way, please.

Now, as soon as Kevin gets back,

I'm gonna take a look at your estimate.

Thank you, Kevin.

Okay, so, "protector muffler." Reasonable.

"Front fender." Unreasonable.

-I...
-Just a second.

You understand?

-Yeah.
-Okay. "Radiator cover.

Footrest boards." No.

Rear reflector is reasonable.

"Exhaust pipe." Okay.

-Now, Mr. Major.
-Yes, ma'am.

I'm going to tell you

that ordinarily I would award him
half the damage

because I think that he
was 50% responsible for this accident.

I think he was driving negligently
with his son.

I think his son was actually,
his 12 year old son,

was driving the scooter.

I think that that's what happened

because his story
about him sitting in the rear seat

hunching over his son
in a four foot wheel base

is not something that I can conjure.

And if it was true, it was still reckless.

So, I would actually ascribe
half of his damage to him.

I'm not and I'm going to tell you why.

Because if there was a lot of traffic,
you are at least partially responsible

for not being more cautious.

You're driving in a big car.

There was somebody behind you
because you did, in fact, hit them.

And you have to be very cautious
when you're driving a big car.

The reason I'm ascribing
all the damage to you, sir,

is because you had no insurance!

And nobody belongs on the road
without insurance!

And there has to be a penalty
when you're driving without insurance,

just like when you're driving
without a license.

Do you require a license...

-Just a second. Just... Hey!
-I require...

Where you live, which Sarah can check,

do you need a driver's license
to ride a scooter on the street?

No, you need an endorsement
for a Class B scooter...

A what?

An endorsement for a Class B scooter.

Okay. Do you have that?

-Yes, ma'am.
-Does your son?

No.

Your son was driving,
your case is dismissed.

We're finished here. Thank you very much.

-My son was not driving.
-[Kevin] This court is adjourned.

I had insurance...

but I had it on my other vehicle,
not on my truck.

I didn't feel nothin' until he was
pounding on the back of my window.

I did not see the scooter
until after the fact.

Wear your helmet when you're on a scooter

and have insurance
when you're backing out of your driveway.

You know what was interesting
about that, Sarah? To me.

The one thing he said,
which came out sort of by accident,

-Yeah.
-was that his son was in front of him.

-And there's no question that...
-I can imagine a world

in which you're very uncomfortably
trying to ride around your son,

but he's not an...
seven or eight year old, you know,

he's a teenage boy who is five feet tall

and that would be like one of us
sitting in front of him, so...

I agree that it
doesn't make the most sense,

I could fathom it, however,
common sense kind of kills it.

Common sense kinda kills it and so does,
"We were all wearing helmets."

-Yeah.
-And so does,

"I pick him up in the motor scooter,"

and this guy, for sure,
lets his 12 year old son drive it.

-And there's a lot of traffic.
-Yeah.

Based upon, with both things...
and the Defendant had no insurance...

-They deserved each other.
-Yeah.

[narrator] Want justice?