02x111 - Farmin' Pigs Profit Margin

[bunniefuu]

Now, you have the pigs.

I told him upfront, I do not have
the money to pay you right now.

And you paid nothing?

Then you've gotta pay
for all of them, sir.

- This... No.
- Oh yes.

The pigs died.

[Narrator]
This is Judy Justice.

Logan Moore is suing his family friend,
Brandon Farmin,

for the cost of four pigs,
a hog waterer, and lost wages.

[Bailiff]
Court come to order. All rise.

Have a seat please.

Hello Judge, Case 2181,
Moore Versus Farmin.

- Thank you.
- You're welcome.

Mr. Moore, you're suing the defendant

because it is your claim that you
sold him, I believe, four piglets?

- And he never paid you for them?
- Yes, your honor.

[Judy]
That's what the case is about.

Now, tell me where you live.

I live in Pinehurst,
but outside of Pinehurst.

Uh, south in a valley.

- Pinehurst is where?
- Uh, in Idaho.

So you live in Idaho?
Is that a farming community?

Yes. Small.

Who do you live there with?

Me, my mom and my sister.

- You have a farm?
- [Moore] Yes.

- How many acres?
- Right now five, yes.

We're working on, uh, buying land
next to us.

But right now you have five acres?
Tell me what you raise?

Right now we raise cows,
pigs, and goats.

- [Judy] You own that property?
- Yes, your honor.

How long have you owned that property
and raised those farm animals?

Lived on the property my whole life,
raised farm animals since I was about 16.

And you sell them for what?

I mainly do meat animals.

So when it comes to beef cattle,
pigs, meat goats.

But you sell them on their own hooves?

Yes. Yep.
On the hoof, not by meat.

And what do you do
Mr. Farmin?

An underground shift supervisor.

- [Judy] What is that?
- An underground miner.

[Judy]
Do you live close by to Mr. Moore?

Live a couple miles above him.

[Judy]
How long have you lived there?

Going on five years.

Tell me what interest you have in pigs?

Me and my buddy, we have a hobby,
so to speak.

He has cattle at his place
and I have raised pigs in mine.

[Judy]
How many acres is your house?

Just over five.

- All you raise are pigs?
- Correct.

- And I assume you sell the pigs for meat?
- Correct.

When was the first time, Mr. Farmin,
you purchased pigs from Mr. Moore?

Probably two years ago now.

[Judy]
Okay. How many did you purchase?

The first time?

- [Judy] First time.
- I think there was three.

- How much did you pay for them?
- [Farmin] I don't recall.

Oh! How much was three piglets be?

I wanna say, it was 400
and some change.

- [Judy] For three?
- Correct.

[Judy]
Okay, that was a couple of years ago.

- Correct.
- [Judy] Did you sell those pigs?

Correct.

[Judy] They're not part
of your current livestock?

[Farmin]
No, no. Nope.

And you keep them for how long
before you sell them?

Until they make a certain weight.

About 250, 280 pounds.

Now, when you buy them from the plaintiff
or from anyone, how big are they?

The ones that I purchased from Logan
were small, probably 30, 40 pounds maybe.


for them to get to 250?

A lot.

And give me some idea, because I really
don't know the answer to this question.

How much would you sell
a 250 pound pig for?

If they're totally butchered, cut,
and wrapped, it's about eight to $900.

If I'm doing the cutting
and wrapping.

And if you're not?

Then I sell for hanging weight.

So whatever the animal weighs
after it's butchered out,

then we set a price for that.

Usually 3.50 to $4 a pound.

You pay about a hundred and a quarter
for them, you feed them for a year?

Not quite a year, but close.

Okay. Not quite a year.

And then you sell them for six
or seven times what you paid for them,

minus the feed,
whatever that is.

That is what it is to feed.

Except for there's more
than just the feed.

There's all the time and labor
that goes into cutting...

Oh, absolutely.

- And...
- [Judy] But you make a profit.

We make a profit? Yes.

And you don't go that route.
You sell them when they're young.

Correct.

That's your business to sell them
when they're young?

- Yes.
- Okay.

So the first time Mr. Farmin bought
from you, evidently things went well.

Tell me about this most recent sale
where there is an issue.

Yes, so Brandon contacted me
that I had four pigs available.

[Judy] Did you advertise
that you had them available?

I did not.

I have a family member that works
at a gas station that he goes to.

She mentioned to him
that I have pigs for sale.

Is that how you found out?

- [Farmin] That is correct.
- Okay. Go.

Uh, that I had pigs for sale,
and then he got my number from her.

He contacted me,
said that he is interested in my pigs.

We set up a time for him to come meet
and look at the pigs.

- What date?
- It was July 28th, 2022.

Okay.

And then he came and looked
at the pigs then, and he liked them.

- How old were they?
- They were two and a half months,

which would be right around 40
to 45 pounds.

- [Judy] And you had four of them?
- Four, correct.

Is that how many there were
in the litter or however?

No, those were just the ones I had left,
there were nine in that litter.

- [Judy] So You had already sold five?
- Yes.

- And four left?
- Yes.

Is that the time you usually buy them,
Mr. Farmin,

when they're two and a half
months old?

No.

[Judy] How old are they
when you usually buy them?

- It depends.
- Depends on what?

Uh, price, money,
where they're at.

Well, so give me a range.
What...

So these ones are relatively close.
I didn't have to travel far.

At the time they seem like they're pretty
decent price deal.

And what did he sell them to you for?

You went to take the pigs.
You didn't have any money at the moment.

And what was the deal
that you came up with?

That I would pay him for them
when I was able to.

Nah, that I don't believe.

- That's...
- That I don't believe.

That is the truth.

Then he's foolish because,
when are you able to?

[Narrator] Logan Moore claims
his family friend Brandon Farmin

owes for the cost of four pigs.

Brandon says Logan sold him pigs
that were sick.

Okay.
What did he sell them to you for?

I believe for the four pigs
and waterer, it was 720...

Twenty five.
Four pigs and there was a water?

Little machine that you...

No, it was just a plastic tote

with n*pples on it for the pigs
that drink water out of.

There's no machine, no nothing to it.

So for $725 you got the four pigs
and this machine?

- It's not...
- Whatever, A waterer, a hog waterer.

- [Farmin] Correct?
- Right.

Anybody have a picture
of that to show me?

I do not. No.

I'll have to use my imagination
based upon Mr. Farmin's.

- Oh, you have a picture of it, sir?
- Let me.

Your Honor.

- What?
- It was $740.

Uh, 160 each for the pigs
and then a hundred for the waterer.

- Judge, I do not.
- Hmm?

- I do not have a picture of the water.
- [Judy] Okay.

The waterer was like a 275 gallon tank
with four n*pples on the outside of it,

at the bottom that you can fill
with water.

pigs, uh, drink out of the n*pples easier
than they do like a dish.

Whatever. I get the picture.

Okay, now let's say I take your number,
Mr. Farmin $725,

you purchased the pigs on July 28th, 2022.

- Is that right?
- Correct.

Did you pay him for them?

At the time that I went
and looked at the pigs,

I told him up front, plain as day,

I do not have the money to pay
you right now.

Right off the bat,
I don't have the money.

But I was under the understanding
from his relative

that works at the gas station
that he doesn't have the time.

No, no, no, you can't tell me
what the relative

at the gas station told you.

- You went to see the pigs.
- I went to see the pigs.

You went to see the pigs, Mr. Farmin.
And you told me a moment ago.

I said, "How much were the pigs?"

And she's gonna read back
exactly what you said.

You asked him, "Did you pay for them?"

And he said, "At the time I went
and looked at the pigs,

I told him up front, plain as day,

"I do not have the money to pay
you right now."

Before that,
could be something about $725.

How much were they?
And he said the whole thing.

Four pigs and a waterer was 725.

$720 for the pigs and the water machine.

- 720?
- 720.

Now that's what you said.
You said they were $720.

That was the discussion
when you went and looked at the pigs.

Okay, you said,
"I don't have money right now."

- Correct.
- [Judy] And?

- So then we came up with a deal that...
- Look at me, don't look down.

So you came up with a deal you want
to take the pigs and the watering thing.

You wanted to take the pigs,
you didn't have any money at the moment.

And what was the deal
that you came up with?

That I would pay him for them
when I was able to.

- Nah. Nah. That I don't believe.
- That's...

- That I don't believe.
- That is the truth.

Then he's foolish
because when are you able to?

- When I was able to.
- What does that mean?

That means you determine whether or not,

when and if you are gonna pay
for these things that you took.

It depended on when I was able
to have the money available.

- [Judy] That was in July.
- Correct.

- [Judy] You work in a mine?
- Correct.

- [Judy] You work for a company?
- Correct.

- How long have you worked for them?
- [Farmin] Three years.

Mm-hmm.
You get paid annually or by the hour?

- Annually.
- [Judy] And what's your pay annually?


Give or take.

- Give or take or what?
- If I get bonuses.

Okay, you're gonna get the month
of January at 1099.

How much did you earn last year
with bonuses?

I don't know.
I haven't received my bonus yet.

Oh, you haven't received it yet.
Okay. So it's $90,000 base pay.

- Who else do you support?
- My wife and five children.

- [Judy] What does your wife do?
- Stay-at-home mom.

When was the last time
you sold any pigs?

That's been a while.

[Judy] How long?
Month and year?

It's been probably six months.
Six, seven months.

Okay.
How many did you sell?

- At the time? The last...
- In the last six months.

- How many did you sell?
- One or two.

Well, I want you to think carefully.

If you are on a salary and you have a wife
and five children, that it's important,

if you make between eight and $900
for each pig that you have,

- I wanna know if it's one or two.
- It was two.

And let's say,
I'm not gonna take the higher figure,

I'll take the lower figure, that's $1,600.

You said between eight and $900 each.

That's $1,600 plus your income
from your job.

Unfortunately that eight to $900
that I get for a pig,

that doesn't all go to me.

I split that equally with the person
that I cut with.

The one that raises the cattle,
that I spoke about.

I don't understand, sir.

I have the shop, I have the space,
the shop, the meat cooler,

the room at my house
to hang and cut animals.

He comes up and he helps.
We split it equally right down the middle.

- So the eight or 900, I don't get that...
- Sir, just a second.

- He raises cattle?
- Correct.

And you split his cattle with him,

and you have pigs
and he splits the pigs with you?

No. No.

I let him use the shop and my meat cooler.

The cattle's his deal, but he comes up
and helps me cut and wrap the pigs.

Oh, then he doesn't get half.
That's baloney. That's baloney.

If you raise them, you feed them,
you pay for them.

If he wraps them,
you're not giving him half, in any event.

In any event, you have a job.
You have a $90,000 plus job.

You made a commitment of $720

to the plaintiff to pay for his pigs
and you paid nothing.

The pigs died.

Just a second.
I read that here.

Tell me when the pigs died.

Tell me the month and day the pigs died,
that you communicated with him,

this pig died, that pig died.
This pig died.

I didn't communicate with him
about when the pig died or...

Did you communicate with him at all?

I'm sorry,
when he asked you for the money?

- Yes.
- I'm sorry. Okay.

When he said, "where's my money?"
That was in what month?

I know when, July 28th
is when you picked them up,

and what month did he communicate
and say to you,

"I want my pigs or I want the money?"

- Tell me
- August.

August what?

One was August 16th,
one was August 17th.

Okay, so he communicated with you
the 16th and the 17th of August.

So by this time you've had the pigs

at your place for about
two and a half weeks.

From the 28th to the 16th
or the 17th of July.

And the first one had already died
in that.

Just a second. During that time now,
when did the first pig die?

A week and three days after I got it home.

- [Judy] Did you tell him?
- No.

Then you've gotta pay
for all of them, sir.

- What? That's...
- You're gonna pay for all of them.

- That's no...
- Oh yes.

Just show me that you said to him,
one got sick, it died.

I'm afraid for the others.

So I just as soon give 'em back to you
and cancel this whole deal.

Show me.

- I offered multiple times...
- [Judy] Show me.

- To take the pigs back and the waterer.
- Just show me.

[Narrator]
Logan Moore has accused

his family friend Brandon Farmin,

of refusing to pay for the pigs
he purchased.

Brandon claims Logan sold him
sick pigs and only one survived.

Go ahead.

So if you went to the grocery store
and you bought a bag of apples,

and the apples were rotten
in the middle but the outside looked fine

you would still pay for those
and just be content with them?

I'm gonna give you
the different examples, sir, not apples.

I'm going to give you an example
with puppies,

which I have here all the time.

Your pigs were not sold to you
with any health guarantee.

Let's start there.

Dogs, cats, animals, pet animals,

are usually sold through a breeder,
or somebody that you buy from.

You have a contract that says take the dog
or the cat to the vet

within the next three days
or the next 24 hours or 48 hours.

Any health deficiency in the cat or dog,

we will either refund your money
or give you a new cat or a new dog.

At the discretion of either the buyer
or the seller.

That's what happens.

Now, you had the animals at your place
for two weeks

and I assume you have other animals.

Just assume you have other animals.

I had other pigs at the time.

I had...
Just assume you have other animals.

and I also assume
that you have no vet report.

- I do.
- I'd like to see it.

- This isn't a vet report.
- It's the bill.

I don't care about a bill.
I want a report.

I don't have a report.
I have a bill.

Well, then sir, you're gonna pay him
his $720.

You gonna pay him $720.

I don't care what the bill was.

How does he know, how do I know,
what the pig picked up,

the one that died at your place...

[Farmin] There wasn't...
- In a course of a week and a half?

What you said to me was you took the pigs
and said, "I'll pay him when I can."

Now they're yours.

So I had other pigs at the time,
full grown pigs,

They were ready to go.

So then I brought
these other piglets home,

and then the one started getting sick,
so then I had to separate the pigs.

So then I had to spend all this time
and money, giving them shots,

trying to keep them healthy.

And then I had to build
a whole separate pen

to contain 'em, because I don't wanna
get the full-grown pigs

getting whatever disease,
or whatever they had...

Did you ever call the plaintiff

when the first pig got sick and said,
listen, this pig is sick

and I'm not sure about the other piglets
that are here.

And that's in the first two weeks.
I'd like to return 'em to you.

You didn't have any babies
at the time cause you had sold five,

he had nine in the whole litter
or whatever they're called.

Just show me that you said to him,
"One got sick, it died,

I'm afraid for the others.

So I'd just as soon give them back to you
and cancel this whole deal."

Show me where you did that
the first two weeks in August

When I first picked up those...

Just, just show me.

I don't have that.

Sir, then what you're just saying
is unreasonable.

It's not unreasonable.

Why do I need to burden him
with these sick pigs?

But I'm not gonna pay for a product
that I don't get...

Then you've become
the lawyer for the plaintiff,

the lawyer for the defendant
and the judge.

You said I bought 'em, I didn't pay
for 'em, but I shouldn't have to pay

for them because now I had to build
a whole separate pen.

I had to separate them
and this is all without advising him.

All without advising him
and saying to him, listen,

"I didn't wanna buy sick pigs.
It looks as if these are sick pigs.

I don't want the extra responsibility.

I don't have the money right now.
Take 'em back."

- [Farmin] I...
- Show me.

- [Farmin] I offered.
- Show me.

- I offered multiple times...
- [Judy] Show me.

- To take the pigs back and the waterer.
- Show me.

Show me within the first couple of weeks
when one died.

So you had to separate all of them.
That's the first two weeks in August.

That's all I wanna see.

Right here.

- I'd like to see.
- August 17th.

Okay. Great.

- [Farmin] The one in blue.
- Ssh, I'm reading.

This doesn't say anything
about sick pigs, sir.

August 16th, 17th, were the two dates
he gave me.

This was on August 17th.

He says, "Have the money
to me tomorrow

or I'm getting law enforcement involved."

You don't say one of the pigs is sick,
one of the pigs died.

I'll bring 'em all back.

You say, "I'm working on getting
you the money,

but if this is how it is,

then I will bring you back the pigs
and all tonight.

I have some blank coming up that has taken
precedence in my finances.

I'm sorry that this has been less
than ideal, but this is where I am now."

That doesn't say anything about pigs
being sick, dying.

It says I have other things
to do with my money now.

That's what it says.
Right?

But I clearly offered
to bring the pigs back.

Just a second.
That's what it says.

He didn't have a buyback agreement
from you.

Now you have the pigs, whether they died,
or whether they didn't die,

or whether they got sick, you've had them.

Now we're in January,

August, September,
October, November, December.

We're in January.
We're six months later.

Judgement for the plaintiff
for the amount of $720.

- Thank you very much.
- [Moore] Thank you.

[Bailiff]
This court is adjourned.

Did not expect, uh, Brandon to uh,
mention sick pigs.

Pigs wouldn't put on weight.

They started not wanting to eat or drink
anymore.

Then they just got real skinny.
No matter what I did or the vets did.

Uh, he never told me

They just ended up passing away.

But if it was sick, I would put 'em
in a treated pen that I have

that's actually on concrete
where they cannot pick up

any other diseases from the ground.

Some kind of infection.

And I make sure the uh,
animal is even safe for transport.

I wasn't gonna do the blood test on 'em
to try to figure out.

I honestly have done multiple payment
plans with multiple farmers.

I shouldn't have to pay.

And I will do it in the future too.

Got frustrated.

I'm glad it's over.
I don't have to chase my money anymore.

So I don't know a lot about pigs
or farming or...

- No.
- Or housing pigs,

but I was really surprised
at the profit margin

that the defendant was explaining.

If you buy the pigs at 40 pounds,

not also great at math
or word problem math question.

So, but if you buy a pig
at 40 pounds for $160,

you have to feed it all the way up
to 280 pounds,

in order to sell it to anyone.

You have to, I don't even wanna think
about how much food that requires

to feed the pigs.

But then your profit, even if he wasn't
splitting it with whoever helps him

cut and butcher the meat, is only $800
as a high figure,

that seems like a very low profit margin
to have pigs in your house

and to have them in your backyard
and build a pen with five kids.

That just seems like a lot for a profit
margin that I expected to be much higher.

That's really labor intensive work.
It just blew my mind.

- Yeah, different part of the world.
- Different part of the world.

So if you don't like that part
of the world, then you go to law school.

- I guess.
- Or you become a podiatrist...

- Or you visit, you visit your farm
- Or you visit. You visit your farm

[Narrator] Have you been cheated?