02x93 - Cheating Expulsion

[bunniefuu]

Why we paying for the child
that doesn't go to school anymore?

Your child was dismissed from school
for cheating!

He did have a paper with him,
but he did not cheat!

He got caught three times.

- What do you do?
- [Judy] You tell your son,

"You better straighten up,"
stop making excuses.

[announcer]
This is Judy Justice.

♪♪

[announcer]
Robin Slagle is suing her customer,

Jack Mkrtchyan, for tuition
and administrative fees.

[bailiff]
Court come to order. All rise.

Have a seat, please.

Hello, Judge.
Case number 2126,

Slagle versus Mkrtchyan.

- Thank you.
- You're welcome.

- You run a school.
- [Robin] Yes, ma'am, it's a program.

[Judy]
Is it a school or a program?

- It's a program.
- [Judy] What's the difference?

[Robin] The program is not a school
where the children come every day.

They come twice a week.

- Parents...
- They come twice a week online?

- No. We are...
- [Judy] In person?

- In person. Yes.
- [Judy] OK, so twice a week

they are there,
at a brick-and-mortar place?

- Yes.
- And how long have you had this program?

We actually started this program
during the lockdown in 2020, spring,

so this is the end of our first semester
of our third year.

- [Judy] OK.
And tell me, who runs the program?

- I do.
- You have an educational background?

I do.
I have a master's in education.

[Judy]
Does anybody run the program with you?

I have a staff, but I'm the full director.

Is this an annual program?

We do operate on a semesterly basis
as far as payments,

but the classes just roll over
from first semester to second semester.

- [Judy] And is there a contract?
- Yes.

OK, and you're gonna show me the contract

that the defendant signed
on behalf of his son?

[Robin]
Yes.

[Judy]
Because that's what this case is about.

- Yes.
- The only interesting part of the case

is your son was enrolled in the program.

He was terminated from the program
for, let's say misconduct.

- [Jack] That's true.
- [Judy] And it was misconduct

that was replicated in violation
of the rules at least three times?

- Kind of.
- [Judy] Not kind of.

At least three times,
that you acknowledge.

- OK.
- That's not an "OK".

That's not an OK,
that's either a "yes" or a "no".

I mean, I read about three instances
of cheating.

You acknowledged that in your answer.

Well, it's different, it's different.

You mean, he cheated differently?

No, he didn't cheat differently.
I mean, I can explain.

[Judy]
It was explained in the papers.

- OK.
- And you weren't there,

so you can't explain.

But you acknowledged the fact
that he cheated,

he was given a warning, you were advised.

He cheated again,
you were given a warning,

and he was allowed to continue.

On the third such event,
the school terminated him.

- Is that what I read?
- Yes, ma'am.

[Judy] And that's
what you acknowledge in your papers.

- Yes. Yes, ma'am.
- [Judy] OK, well, that's a "yes".

And he was within a semester,

you had paid the tuition, and then

tried to reverse the payment,
'cause you paid on a credit card.

Yes, I paid with credit card, yes.

OK, and then, when you got the bill,

you challenged that payment,

- which you had, in fact, received,
- Mm-hmm.

and whatever you told
the credit card company,

as a result of what you told them,

the payment was reversed
and taken off your credit card.

- That is correct.
- [Judy] Right.

And so they are here now,

seeking that tuition payment from a court.

That's why we're here, to see
whether, contractually,

'cause this is a breach
of contract action,

you are obligated to pay the tuition,

even though your son
was not in the program,

because he was dismissed for cause.

Which you acknowledge.

Are we clear on where we are?

- Yes, ma'am.
- Yes, ma'am.

[Judy] Good.
So now, I'm going to look at the contract.

[Robin]
I'd like to add that, um...

[Judy] Just let me
look at the contract first.

[Robin]
OK.

If you see contract there signed by...
by my party, I want to see it, too,

'cause I don't see my name,
I sign a contract.

That's a statement, probably,
or it's a...

- It's a payment agreement.
- [Robin] Yeah.

That's not a contract.

[Judy] Yeah, a payment agreement
is a contract, sir.

- [Jack] But signed by...by me?
- Well, it says "signed:

"Irina & Jack".
Is Irina your wife?

- That's correct, yeah.
- [Judy] OK.

So this says, "I understand
that payments are due even if classes

or memberships are dropped,
subject to the refund policy."

Well, what's the refund policy
and where is that in writing?

It is on our website.

They sign it with the form
that they had to sign.

Well, I'd like to see the form
that they signed.

[Judy] 'Cause I have to see
what the terms are of that.

[Robin]
These are the terms of... the refund.

- [Judy] Thank you.
- That's a screen shot of our website.

[Judy]
The website is unimportant to me.

You say you have an agreement
signed by them.

- I'd like to see it.
- Well, the agreement that we have signed

was the installment agreement.
So I'm sorry...

Well, I only have one payment agreement.

What I said I want to see
is a refund policy.

You said you have that,
that they signed, I don't see the...

They don't sign the policy.
They sign the agreement,

the policy is a written policy.

[Judy] Well, I would like to see
the written policy.

That's what we have on our website,
and it's clearly...

- No.
- [Robin] No? OK.

No. What you have to do is,

you have to incorporate something
by agreement in this contract.

If you say, "the refund policy

as outlined in the website,"

'cause, other than that, it's meaningless.

- OK.
- [Judy] You know.

You're saying, "We have a refund policy,

and we assumed that you looked
on the website

to see what the policy is."

We also do go over it,
um, in parent meetings with the parents...

That you can't do,
because you have a written agreement.

- Right.
- [Judy] And anything that's outside

of that agreement,
unless it's referenced in the agreement,

- Mm-hmm.
- [Judy] is inadmissible,

because the intention of it
is to somehow change or modify

the terms of your written contract.

OK. So, in what month

did the defendant's son
start the program?

In August of 2021.

And it runs in two semesters?
And when was he terminated?

He was terminated in February of 2022.

[Judy]
You were in a semester program?

- [Robin] Yes.
- So, am I correct

that the first two episodes of cheating

- were in the first semester?
- Yes.

- When?
- [Robin] The first one

was early in November, it happened to be

the third week of our second semester.

The next one was a couple weeks later,

in the same month of November.

[Judy]
OK. So, the semester had started.

- Mm-hmm.
- [Judy] "Uh-huh" is not "yes".

And on what day in February
was he terminated?

He was terminated on February 24th,
I believe. Yes.

[Judy] And when you terminated
the defendant, I assume,

paid the entire semester's tuition
for the second semester?

The second semester, he signed
the installment agreement,

which is what you have there.

- This is a payment agreement.
- [Robin] Right.

That's it.
He agreed to pay in installments.

[Judy]
No. It says, "I agree to pay all charges

by due dates,
according to the payment plan."

I don't have a signed payment plan.

From anybody.
Do you have one?

I'm sorry, that's what we use
for our signed payment plan.

Well, you should use something different.

[Judy] This is not a payment plan,
this says he will pay

according to a payment plan.

I'm looking for the payment plan.

You pay by the month,
you pay by the semester...

- How do you pay?
- It's a semesterly fee

that's broken into four payments.

So they don't have to pay it all upfront.

- OK.
- [Robin] They can choose to.

And... so, when
was the defendant's last payment?

They paid through the semester.

- [Judy] Through what semester?
- Second semester.

[Judy]
OK, so they paid in full?

Through the installment.

So, what happens is,
they agree to be automatically billed.

And so, every month, they,
a certain amount comes out...

Just a second.
So, what you're saying is,

when they sign up,
they give you authority

- to pull out from their bank
- Yes.

[Judy]
whatever the tuition is for that month?

- [Robin] Right.
- [Judy] OK.

And according to your records,

when was the last payment
that you received

for the defendant's son
prior to terminating him?

Prior to terminating him,
we received a payment in February.

- And you terminated him on February 24th?
- [Robin] Yes.

How much was that payment?

[Robin] It was...
have it right here...

You know what?
I don't know.

- $350. Every month.
- That's 300... that's right. $350.

I know, I got charged the extra month,
so I knew the number.

OK. So, it was $350
that you paid the beginning of February,

- and he was there in February?
- That is correct.

[Judy]
OK.

In what month did you dispute the charge?

- [Jack] Well, I...
- No, no. Not "well".

- I said in what month...
- May.

I only realized in May,

- she's been charging...
- Shh. Just a second.

He was plagiarized by teachers.

He was plagiarized by teachers?

He was given notice because
he lied on a test by teacher, yeah?

But it's not exactly what happened.

They're not in the business
of expelling children,

they're in the business
of keeping children in school.

- [Jack] But...
- [Judy] You really have to

get this through your head.

[chuckles]

♪♪

[announcer]
Robin Slagle claims her customer,

Jack Mkrtchyan, owes for tuition
and administrative fees.

So, you paid in February,

- and your son was there in February?
- [Jack] That is correct.

[Judy]
Did you pay in March?

- Oh, it was taken out of my account
- [Judy] Yes.

without me knowing, but yes.

- [Judy] Is that $350?
- That is correct.

- And did you pay in April?
- [Jack] I did pay in April.

[Judy]
OK. Now, the May payment,

is the May payment the payment
that you canceled?

No. On the May, I also paid
for a May payment.

Looking at my statements, I said,

"Why are we paying for the child?

He doesn't go to school anymore."

And, uh, that's when I called them

and, uh, then I called
my credit card company,

explained what happened.

They said, "We are gonna
charge the money back to your account."

And that's when I kind of
looked through paperwork,

and I'm, um, I'm an immigrant
in this country,

I don't, I don't read really well,
I can speak.

And my son, he's a young guy,

and he knows exactly what it is,
and that's what I brought him.

I said, "Can you see,
do we owe these people money?"

And if you guys allow it,
I can have Alex to explain

what here shows...

Just see it, he doesn't
have to explain anything to me.

- OK.
- [Judy] I'm not new to the country,

and I was legally trained,

so I don't need...

your son, I assume
you're not legally trained

- I am not.
- [Judy] to interpret something,

a piece of paper?

So, now I will look at the piece of paper
that you're relying on,

but I want to tell you this, sir.

I've paid the tuition for a lot of people.

A lot.

'Cause I have 13 grandchildren...

- Okay.
- [Judy] in school.

OK.

I'll take that, Kevin.
Thank you, I'm sorry.

I know that if one of my kids or grandkids

goes to school and gets expelled,

and I've paid the tuition,
'cause I'm not a payment plan.

Parents send the bill directly
[chuckling]...

and... and... so I pay the tuition,

but I know if one of the kids

in November,
once I've paid the tuition,

gets caught cheating on a test,

or plagiarizing a paper,

and he or she is dismissed
from the school,

they're not gonna give me my tuition back.

Even though he's not in school.

I'm not gonna get the tuition back
for that semester.

That's true.

[Judy]
That's what I'm telling you.

I know that.

So, now I'm gonna see
what you want me to read

that suggests that in this case,

even though your son
was terminated for cause

from the school for cheating.

Dismissal versus termination
is different.

[Judy]
No, no, no, it's not different, at all.

It's the exact same thing,
dismissed, terminated,

expelled, all the same thing.

If you look them up
under synonyms for each other,

in the dictionary, you will find
they're all the same.

He was excised from the school

because he cheated,
despite multiple warnings.

So he was expelled from cause.

I just want you to understand that.
Did you go to college?

- Currently enrolled.
- [Judy] Currently? Stand up.

You look like a nice young man.
Where do you go to school?

- Uh, Cal Poly Pomona.
- [Judy] And who pays the tuition?

Uh, I do.

[Judy]
Now, what's your first name?

- Alex.
- [Judy] Now, Alex,

You do know that if you got expelled

from college for cheating
in the middle of a semester,

you wouldn't get your tuition back
for that semester?

- You do know that?
- Correct.

OK. That's all I wanted to know.
Well, that's what we're dealing with here.

- [Alex] Could I add something?
- Sure.

Well, according to their honesty policy,

they made a clear difference
between dismissal and expulsion.

- I'm gonna look at it. OK?
- [Alex] OK.

- [Judy] OK. So, what you gave me,
- Mm-hmm?

[Judy]
now, acknowledges that you

received the refund policy.

Thank you very much,
'cause she wasn't able

to prove that she gave it to you, but now,

you gave it to me, so I know
you were given the refund policy

when you enrolled your son in school.

So, we weren't given, but it's something,
they have it on their website

- for you to, I didn't sign.
- [Judy] Just a second.

You don't have to sign.
Then, you looked at the website.

You gave me this.

- Do you understand?
- After this happened,

I went and tried to understand
what happened.

[Judy]
Well, you should've done it before.

You were perfectly capable
of doing it before.

The contract I signed,
and I explain everything...

You just told me five minute ago
that you didn't sign any contract.

Well, now you've acknowledged
that you signed the contract.

I'm just reading this, that you gave me.

[Jack] A contract has to be
a complete contract,

- it says that something...
- [Judy] Just a second...

For somebody who's, you know,
not here, not from this country,

and doesn't understand things,
you seem to understand things very well.

I know the contract has to be completed.

Well, that's very good,
a lot of people don't know that.

[Jack] So, if I give a contract
for a statement,

then I say, "Oh, go on my website
to read about our refund policy,"

that's not part of the contract,
that's the rules, no?

I didn't sign refund policy.

You don't have to sign a refund policy,

you just have to be aware of it.

If I don't know how to get into website...

You gave me the evidence!

[Jack] Uh, these are done
after everything done...

I... I'm not sure.

[Judy]
You were certainly aware

of how to do it,
either before or after.

When I sign contract with somebody,
I disclose everything,

and they initial, and they get copies,
I get copies,

and that's a legal binding contract.

Good. What law school did you go to?

None.

Well, there are two things here.

But the final piece here says,

"The consequence for academic dishonesty
or plagiarism

is a score of zero on the assignment

- and possibly dismissal from the class."
- OK.

So, your son did that
in the first semester at least twice.

"Repeated dishonesty can result
in suspension or expulsion."

Now... now, you can stand up,
because your father says

he doesn't understand everything.

I think he understands everything
just fine.

But in case he wants to have you there,

now, when you were discussing this
with your father,

- Mm-hmm.
- [Judy] Did you have

any conversation with him
that suggested to him

that, you know,
"If I went to college, and I cheated

three times or four times,
or plagiarized a paper,

- and I was kicked out of school,
- [Alex] Mm-hmm.

I wouldn't get my tuition back."

Did you tell him that?

No. We had, uh, similar talks,

but no, nothing on the school.

We talked about, for instance,
signing a contract,

for, let's say,
a one-year lease agreement

to live somewhere.
But if you breach the contract,

and they decide to kick you out,

it's the same thing as an explusion.

You're not required to finish
the one-year contract with them.

You don't have to continue paying.

What, are you kidding?

I am not.
If you get evicted from a property,

do you have to continue paying
the entire year's lease?

Yeah. If you breach,
if you breach a lease?

He and she can evict you.

And yes, you will be responsible
for the remainder of the lease.

- Oh. I wasn't aware of that.
- [Judy] Yes.

You will be responsible
for the remainder of the lease.

You have to understand,
and your father has to understand,

the reason that he was expelled
is his fault.

And the reason he was expelled

had nothing to do with them.

It had to do with your father.

Because you were put on notice

that he was plagiarizing

and cheating on tests.

If what you're suggesting
is the three times

that your son was caught cheating

were the only times he cheated,

you're deluding yourself.

He got caught three times.

Because if these were the only three times
that he cheated,

he is the unluckiest person on the planet.

♪♪

[announcer]
Robin Slagle has accused her customer,

Jack Mkrtchyan,
of refusing to pay tuition.

Jack claims he is not required to pay

because his son was dismissed
from her school.

[Judy]
You were put on notice,

and instead of being more vigilant,

the conduct continued.

He lives in your house.
How old is he?

- Uh, 14.
- [Judy] Fourteen.

- Well...
- [Jack] I want to ask about

this plagiarizing thing, which it is,
because remember,

beginning, you ask me,
that he was plagiarized

by teachers, which I was not...

He was plagiarized by teachers?

Like, he...he was given notice

because he lied on a test
by teacher, yeah?

But it's not... it's not exactly
what happened.

Well, then you should've,
just a second.

Then you should've contested it, sir.

- Well, if...
- [Judy] You should've contested it.

If they decided they don't want him
to be out of the... out of the school,

they don't want him to be there,
what do you do,

- [Jack] I mean, you go fight with them?
- What do you do? What do you do?

You pay the tuition for that semester,

because that's
your contractual obligation,

and you tell your son,
"You better straighten up,

and if I have to take you
to a psychiatrist,

if I have to take you to a therapist,

if I have to find
a more rigid school environment,

I'm gonna do that."

[Jack]
Well, he didn't cheat, but...

[Judy] You really have
to get this through your head.

[Jack] When it says cheating,
last time he was expelled from school,

- do we have a...
- [Judy] No, don't look at her.

[Jack] That day he had an excellent score
on his Math, and his last test

was the... his History, and he forgot
to learn the History,

- and he did have a paper with him,
- [Judy chuckles]

but he did not cheat.

Actually, there is no proof
he cheated that day.

All right. They're not in the business
of expelling children,

they're in the business
of keeping children in school.

How many of the students
were expelled from the school

the semester that this defendant's son
was expelled?

- Zero.
- Yeah.

They're in business
of keeping children in school.

Guess my son was that bad
for her to expel her.

She said they didn't expel
any other children.

I'm gonna ask her, how many children
were enrolled in the program

at the same time the defendant's
son was enrolled in the program?

Approximately 70, 75.

OK, and of the 70 to 75 students,

the only student expelled
was the defendant's son?

- Yes, ma'am.
- [Judy] That should tell you

something, sir.
Stop making excuses.

- [Jack] OK.
- I didn't... he didn't look at the paper,

he had it underneath him,
but he didn't look at it.

Well, plagiarizing,
so he copied from somebody,

on a paper that was supposed to be
original work.

Did it once, he did it twice...

Do you understand your son has a problem?

- Well, we all have problems.
- [audience chuckling]

No, I never had a problem
being expelled from school,

- [Jack] I'm not perfect.
- sir, for cheating.

I never had a problem
being expelled from school for cheating.

- I have lied.
- I have five children

and 13 grandchildren.

All have completed college.

Some professional school.

None of them have ever been
expelled for cheating.

That's a lot of people.

Do you feel it's fair to expel a child
from school because of...

- Cheating?
- [Jack] Cheating?

Absolutely!

[Judy] Not that I usually
let people ask me questions,

but the answer is, absolutely.

Because if 70 children are working hard

to get good grades and studying,

and creating original works

when they're supposed
to create original works,

and your son, who's getting a 99
on a Math test,

when he's been getting low scores
on tests, all of a sudden

becomes a shining star one day,

and it's a pattern,
and then they find another cheat sheet

under his bottom,
that's something that suggests

to the other 70 students
that are trying to do the right thing,

then it's OK to cheat,

and so, if you want
to cheat on this test

to get a 99, it's OK.

You can't run a school
where you permit kids

to mingle with kids who are trying,
with kids who are cheating.

So, do I think it's fair?
Absolutely.

OK. How much money
was reversed by this bank?

$1,050, plus $45,

a $15 fee per transaction.

[Judy]
$1,095.

OK, judgment for the plaintiff
in the amount of $1,095.

Sir, your problem is not
with the plaintiff.

Your problem's with your son.

He...he's like all of us,
he made a mistake, and...

[Judy] No, he didn't
make one mistake.

I'm gonna tell you something.
Honestly.

I used to say, when I was practicing
in a different court,

that if criminals got caught

the first time or every time
that they committed a crime,

they'd stop committing crimes.

The problem is, they commit a crime,
and they don't get caught.

And then commit another crime,
and they don't get caught.

Then, they commit the third crime,
and they get caught,

and they're brought to court.

And their lawyer argues,
this is their first arrest.

Not their first crime,
'cause they can't argue that,

but it's the first arrest.

So, if what you're suggesting

is, the three times that your son
was caught cheating

were the only times he cheated,

you're deluding yourself.

He got caught three times.

Because if these were the only three times

that he cheated,
he is the unluckiest person

on the planet.

OK, we're done here.

Ten ninety-five,
judgment for the plaintiff.

- Thank you, Your Honor.
- [bailiff] This court is adjourned.

I felt, uh, the difference
was between, um,

uh, different wording, what it means,

as far as being expelled
versus being, like, sent home.

I'm extremely pleased.

This was totally a matter
of honesty and integrity,

and obviously, it, uh, stems from

the father down to the son.

But he explained that's the same word,
and again,

um, that's why you come to court,

and she did what she had to do.

We have kids that try to cross the line,

and come close to that line,

but as I mentioned, our instructors
are pretty savvy, and they're on it,

and we can tell, pretty much, so...

I am happy it's finally done.
It's been a burden, it's been a stress,

and, uh, and, uh, hopefully, done.

Cheaters never win.

So, I think it's really important
for the plaintiffs,

as the runners of a homeschooling system,

or a schooling system,

to have a better contract for the parents

that are signing, especially
with a payment plan option.

There should be exhibits
attached to the signature page,

not just referencing, "Oh, we're agreeing
that we read the policy from the website."

It's just as easy for you to reprint it,

attach it, and require
a signature, an initial

on the bottom, so that
you don't have parents like these,

that say, "I never went
to the website, I never saw it."

- I agree with you.
- If you have problems like this,

there's no denying the fact that
you initialed each page and each policy.

I think that this
is a learning experience,

because they just started the program
in 2020.

And this is probably
the first experience that they've had,

because he's the first,
they haven't expelled anybody else.

[Judy]
But they'll clean up the contract.

For sure.

[announcer]
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