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01x34 - Spiritual Health Coach Dispute/$20K Business Loan Debate

Episode transcripts for the TV show, "Judy Justice". Aired: November 1, 2021 – present.*
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American arbitration-based reality court show presided over by former Manhattan Family Court Judge Judith Sheindlin.

01x34 - Spiritual Health Coach Dispute/$20K Business Loan Debate

Post by bunniefuu »

She published
pictures of me to the internet.

- And then I also have...
- Shh, shh.

Pictures of her that were private.

That's a lie.

Wow.

That is most unprofessional.

[Nefertiti]
She said that she would want to...

If you interrupt again,
I'm just gonna dismiss your case.

That's it.

[announcer]
This is Judy Justice.

Nefertiti Abdullah is suing
her former friend, Larisha Stone,


for the balance of coaching services
and defamation of character.


[Kevin] Court come to order.
All rise.

- Have a seat, please.
- [Kevin] Hello, Judge.

We have case number 1049,
Abdullah versus Stone.

Thank you, Kevin.

Ms. Abdullah, it is your claim
that the defendant owes the balance

of a bill to you for life coaching.

Health coaching and meal planning.

And in addition to the balance
that she owes you for six weeks'

worth of classes or mentoring,
you alleged that she defamed you

on the internet.

The defendant says
that you did practically nothing for her

for which she paid you $400
of a $600 bill,

and she has a counterclaim.

And the counterclaim is for invasion
of her privacy and defamation.

She says that you posted things
on the internet,

pictures of her that were private pictures
that she sent to you

as part of your health program.

- Yes, ma'am.
- How did you meet each other?

We met at a spiritual event
in September of 2019.

She came to another event
that I was speaking

at in November of 2019.

So you were a speaker?

[Larisha] In the November event,
yes, ma'am.

That's not completely accurate,
Your Honor.

Do you recall
the circumstances of your meeting?

Larisha and I were initiated
into a spiritual group together,

otherwise known as an e-lay.

- We share the same spiritual godmother.
- [Judge Judy] Okay.

- And it was a spiritual group?
- Yes, ma'am.

How much after you met
Ms. Stone did you and Ms. Abdullah

become involved in this health coaching?

Well, we met in September of 2019.

Nefertiti was overweight.

She was walking with a cane.

And she had a host of health issues.

So for the span of time
that I knew her from September 2019

to around November of 2019
when I hired her as a health coach,

I watched her get her weight
under control,

stop walking with her cane,
and she was healthy.

- She got her health on track.
- That's a lie. I've never had a cane.

[Judge Judy]
Just a second.

I've never had a cane, Your Honor.

- If you... if you interrupt...
- [Larisha] Wow.

If you interrupt again,
I'm just gonna dismiss your case.

- [Nefertiti] I'm sorry, Your Honor.
- I want... that's it.

[Nefertiti] Okay.

[Larisha] Ma'am,
I don't know why she's telling you...

[Judge Judy]
Just a sec. I'm listening to you.

- Yes, Your Honor.
- She's not going to interrupt again.

- Okay.
- Okay.

So you saw that she, for some reason,
got herself in shape?

[Larisha] She was... yes.

She got herself in shape.
I was inspired.

And prior to hiring her
as my health coach,

she asked me to start
a health coaching business with her.

So we started a business together non...

[Judge Judy] Explain that to me.

First of all, did you have
any particular education or expertise

in being a health coach for anybody,
you personally?

No, ma'am. No, ma'am.
Not me personally, no.

[Judge Judy] Okay. And prior

to September of 2019, Ms. Abdullah,

did you have any training

or education in the health field?

- [Nefertiti] Yes, ma'am.
- Where?

I've been a Doctor
of Clinical Pharmacy for 16 years.

- I got my degree...
- Oh, it's just... it's just...

- [Nefertiti] Sorry.
- You're a doctor of...

Clinical Pharmacy.
And I also have...

Now, what's a doctor
of Clinical Pharmacy?

[Nefertiti] A Pharm D.
I'm a clinical pharmacist.

I do medication therapy reviews
with senior citizens

in the State of Florida.

I also work with diabetic patients.

I'm a diabetic educator.

- Okay.
- [Nefertiti] Um...

And where did you get your degree from?

- The University of Florida.
- [Judge Judy] When?

In 2005, April 2005.

Are you licensed anywhere?

- Absolutely. I'm licensed...
- Where?

...in the State of Florida
and the State of Kentucky.

As what?

- As a clinical...
- As a...as a pharmacist?

As a registered pharmacist
in the State of Kentucky,

and as a registered pharmacist
and a consultant pharmacist

in the State of Florida.

And both licenses are current?

- Absolutely.
- Okay.

And you had zero training?

[Larisha] Yes, ma'am. Zero training.

So what were you
going to contribute to this business?

[Larisha] Nefertiti encouraged me
to get my life coach certificate,

which I started to do online.

I was supposed to do
the spiritual side of the coaching,

and she was gonna do
the health side of the coaching.

When we fell out in December of 2020,

she was my health coach prior to that,

but when we fell out, she went on a...

- No, no, no, no.
- Okay.

- No, you're getting ahead of yourself.
- Yes, ma'am.

At some point,
you acknowledged that you hired her...

- Yes.
- ...for $600...

- Mm-hmm.
- ...to be your health coach.

- Yes.
- In what month and year did you do that?

In November of 2020,
I hired her to be my health coach.

Okay. And at that time,
what were your issues?

I had pre-diabetes symptoms.

My toes were tingling for months.

And I had told her I don't know
why my toes are tingling.

I don't know what's going on.

About maybe two months
after my toe started tingling,

I went to squeeze my toe
because it was in pain

and pus oozed out of my toe.

So I was having pre-diabetes symptoms,
I was very afraid.

So I changed my diet,
got my food under control,

stop consuming so much sugar
and my pre-diabetes symptoms went away.

- My toes stopped tingling. And...
- Good.

- That was before you hired her?
- Before I hired her, right.

So, I hired her because I still wanted
to get my weight under control.

I have two children.

After the two of them were born,
I just continued to gain weight

and the hormonal changes, I just was
having a hard time getting it down.

So that's why I hired her to help me
lose the weight.

[Judge Judy] Okay.
And it was a business arrangement.

- You both acknowledge it was for $600.
- Yes.

And the only discrepancy is that

you say you paid her
$400 of the $600?

- Yes, ma'am.
- Okay.

Do you have proof that she says
you only paid 200, did she pay 200 or 400?

She paid $150 and we bartered $50.

We bartered $50.

Larisha's contribution to me
if she would do like,

um, flyers for me
because she was good at that. So...

Okay, so what you're saying
is she in effect gave you $200?

Right. And I have the proof
here, she...when she said

that she was going to cash at me
the balance due in 400 on January 9th.

I'd like to see it.
Did you say $400?

Yes. She asked me how much
she said, how much I owe you.

And I told her, and she said okay.

Okay.

- And then I also have...
- Shh. Shh.

Okay, on the 24th of December,
Ms. Stone, she wrote to you,

- "You owed $400. Total less."
- Yes, ma'am.

- And you wrote back, "Okay."
- Yes, ma'am. Absolutely.

I agreed to pay Nefertiti the $400.

- Okay, so you agreed to give her $400?
- Yes, ma'am, I did.

- That was in December?
- Yes.

- Okay. Did you give it to her?
- No, ma'am. I did not.

- Why not?
- She breached our agreement.

She stated in her intake paperwork,
that all of my information

would remain confidential between us,

that she wouldn't share anything
past our health coaching.

She published pictures of me
to the internet.

- I would like to submit...
- Just a second.

- Yes, ma'am.
- On what date?

I don't have the date
because I screenshot these in...

Well, that's... then it's useless to me.

On December 24th of 2020,

you said okay to her statement

that you owe $400.

- You've said okay.
- [Larisha] Mm-hmm.

[Judge Judy] If there are things
that she posted afterwards,

I'm gonna hear it
as part of your counterclaim.

But so far, you haven't told me
why you didn't pay her.

Okay. After I agreed to pay her the money,

I told her that I would pay her
on January 9th

and she remembers that I told her
that I would pay her on January 9th.

Between December 24th and January 9th,

she had released personal information.

She broke the agreement
that we had in my intake paperwork,

she published information
that she gathered on my intake paperwork

to her social media pages.

[Judge Judy] Okay. Ms. Abdullah,
the reason she is giving now,

which is different from the reason
that you gave in your answer,

the reason that you gave
in your answer for not paying her

was that she didn't do anything.

- I'm just telling you.
- Yes, ma'am.

That that's the reason
that you gave in your answer.

The last two weeks of the program sheet
provided no coaching at all.

I got one email during week five
where everything

was a repeat of the previous week.

In week six, there was no contact
related to health coaching at all.

I felt ripped off.

That's what you say in your answer.

Your answer has nothing to do
with breaching the agreement because

she posted personal information,
Ms. Stone.

The reason you gave in your answer
was that she didn't provide the service.

[Larisha] Both are true, ma'am.

Well, the one that you gave in your answer

was that she didn't provide the service.

Okay. So now you're telling me
that the reason

that you didn't finish paying her
despite the fact that you said

you were going to pay her,
is because she breached the agreement.

- May I see a copy of the agreement?
- Yes, ma'am.

Ms. Abdullah, the last line that Ms. Stone

is referring to says that the information

she's providing in this intake form,

which I assume she did,
it talks about her health information,

about her stressors,
what her hope is for the program that...

[Nefertiti] Am I allowed to see that,
to see if it's really my intake form?

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Please?

This form has been redone.

[Larisha] Oh, wow.

I don't have a Wellness Balance
logo on my form, as well as the font...

Well, show me show me your intake...
show me your intake form.

I don't... I don't have my form.

- Well, if that's...
- This is not my form.

- It may be when you say it's...
- It is not signed.

Well, it doesn't have to be signed.

It does not have...signed by the client,

what she has highlighted there

would seem to be
normal course of business

is any information that is furnished...
pay attention, Ms. Abdullah.

Yes, ma'am.

- That any information...
- This isn't mine.

No. I don't believe that.
You may have updated it.

But what it says at the bottom,
since you can't produce any other...

- Yes, ma'am.
- ...any documentation

is very clear, and it's very professional.

And it says that the information

that a prospective client fills out

will only be shared
for statistical purposes,

and will not be published
for any other reason,

will not be used for any other reason.

What Ms. Stone says is...

and I don't give, quite frankly
a rat's behind whether or not

it was done between December 24th
and January 9th...

she says that someplace
you published information

about her on the internet

that you gleaned

while you were involved in coaching her

in health wellness coaching.

And that is... if it's true,

and I haven't seen anything yet,
is most unprofessional.

Posting this photograph with the caption,

"Larisha Stone still owes me $400.

I helped her lose at least one
of those chins."

Did you write that?

[announcer] Later.

It's a lot of baloney!

I've been in this business a long time.

I know baloney,
I know when it's raining outside,

or someone is peeing on my leg.

Unfortunately, the government
doesn't seem to have that sense.

[announcer] Nefertiti Abdullah
says her former friend, Larisha Stone,


owes for the balance
of health coaching services.


Larisha is countersuing
for breach of contract


and invasion of privacy.

Okay. I'd like to see what
you're alleging, maybe it's nothing.

- [Nefertiti] Okay.
- [Larisha] Yes, ma'am.

So the first thing I have is a photo
that she shared of me when she...

- Just a sec.
- ...asked me to...

- Shh. Just a sec.
- Yes, ma'am.

Well, I have to tell you that posting

this photograph of Ms. Stone,

if you did it with the caption,

"Larisha Stone of The 9 Minds

still owes me $400.

I'm taking her to small claims court
in North Carolina.

Someone let her know.

I helped her lose
at least one of those chins."

Did you write that?

I did after this was posted about me.

Okay. I'd like to take
a look at it, please.

[Nefertiti] There you go.
And she can read that as well.

You're giving me a whole...

She posted a lot,
along with a lot of other women

in a group about me.

These are conversations.

That's a whole different ball of wax.

We should...give this back to her, please.

This, I have to tell you.

This is unprofessional.

And if you're dealing with somebody
that you think is not wrapped tight,

that's not what you do
as a professional lady

who's licensed
in two different states.

Just unprofessional.

Not actionable, but unprofessional.

You owe her $400.

Judgment for the plaintiff.

Your counterclaim's dismissed.

We're finished. Thank you.

[Kevin]
Court is adjourned.

Nefertiti got what she wanted.

And I got what I wanted.

Hopefully I can be done with her
for the rest of my life.

I am happy with the outcome.

The spiritual community
is just like any other.

We have issues just like everybody else.

And that's how we ended
up here today

is me speaking vocally

about the con game that was
going on in that community.

Everyone has moved on
except for Nefertiti, so.

I'm just happy to move on as well.

I've gone my separate way
despite what Ms. Stone has presented.

I just wanted to come back
and get what was mine,

which was my money.

[Sarah] I just think
it was actually pretty despicable

that a professional of any kind,
let alone a doctor,

would post those sorts of photos
that a client gave them

in confidence trying to better
themselves trying to lose weight,

do better for her kids,
like the defendant was explaining.

I just...I can't imagine
that and like you said,

it's wrong, but is it actionable?

I don't think it's actionable.

I think that they got into...
because of the money owed,

they got into a catfight.

Clearly from the text messages
she was owed,

and the defendant acknowledged
that she owed her $400,

is that I think that it was unprofessional
to post anything, I actually do.

But this wasn't a strictly
professional relationship.

These two women knew
too much about each other.

So, unfortunate.

Case 1055, Bryant versus Holmes.

All parties, please step forward.

[announcer] Lashanda Bryant
is suing her 22-year-old daughter,


Jasmine Holmes,
for an unpaid school loan.


Ms. Bryant, the defendant
is your daughter, and it is your claim

that she owes the balance
of a loan for school.

Yes.

So I'm gonna start with you, Ms. Holmes.
How old are you?

I'm 22 years old.

And I gather from your answer

that your parents
were separated or divorced.

And you lived with your father.

- Yes, Your Honor.
- Until you were how old?

Twenty-two.

When did you start to live
just with your father, how old were you?

I was about 13, 14.

So you lived with him for almost a decade?

- Yes, ma'am.
- Were you in touch with your mother?

It was on and off for three years.

Okay. So you were
on and off with your mom?

- Yes, Your Honor.
- But then there came a time

when you had some sort
of kerfuffle with your father.

- Yes, Your Honor.
- When was that?

That was March 16th,
the cusp of midnight.

- March 16th of this year?
- Yes, ma'am.

You called your mom and asked
if you could stay with her for a while?

Yes, Your Honor.

- And that was on the 16th of March?
- Yes, Your Honor.

What school were you going to then?

I was not in school at the time.

- What were you doing?
- I was working.

I was at Sally Beauty Holdings
for about a year and... a year and a month.

What kind of work was that?

It was retail customer service.

And you were
a customer service person?

Yes, ma'am.

And that was
until you left your father's house?

Yes, ma'am.
I left April 3rd, 2021.

Prior to working there,
were you in school?

- Yes, ma'am.
- What school?

I was at, um, from 2017 to 2019,

I was at Xavier University of Louisiana.

And then I transferred to Georgia State
University in that fall, 2019.

- Were you a full-time student?
- Yes, ma'am.

Did you graduate from there?

No, ma'am. I did not.

In what year did you stop
going to school?

I stopped going to school 2019,
after my fall semester,

because of financial reasons.

And is that when you went to work?

- Yes, ma'am.
- Okay.

When you moved in with your mother,
according to what I read,

your mother wanted you to get back
into school and you wanted

to get back into school?

Yes, Your Honor.

But you owed the school some money.

Yes, ma'am.
For my transcripts, I had hold.

And I owed a balance of...

You owed a $5,000 balance?

Yes, ma'am.

And according to what I read,
you said you would save up about $1,200.

Yes, Your Honor.

And then it becomes sort of dicey.

Your mother says
that she paid the tuition.

And there were certain conditions
that you stay in school.

She's claiming that the balance
that's owed to her is $3,800.

- Is that right?
- Yes.

Your mother says
that one of the problems is,

that somehow you got a check

from the government for about $20,000.

- Yes, Your Honor.
- For what?

I run a small business on Etsy.

It's called Crystallizzed Co.

I sell crystals, gemstones, and minerals.

Okay. So we didn't discuss
that when I asked you what you did.

What you said was that you worked

for this company for a year and a half,

and that you were going to school.

Now I want you to tell me
what kind of program you applied

for that got you $20,000.

- I did the P...
- We're gonna go...

we're gonna go through it very carefully.

- Okay.
- Okay?

What program?

I did the PPP loan
for small business for the 2021.

That's payroll protection
so that you could pay employees.

Yes.

How many employees
and what are their names?

I have two, it's me.

- I have my boyfriend.
- No, that's you.

- Okay.
- That's you, you have you.

And you have your boyfriend?

Yes. His name is...

Just a second.
Who else?

And then I would have my...

Slowly make sure
'cause I'm gonna check on all this.

- Okay.
- Go ahead. You and your boyfriend.

I would just say me and him, then.

Just us two.

So you applied for employees?

How many employees did you tell
the United States government

that you employed
that you needed protection for?

- Two.
- And you named them?

- Do you have a copy of that application?
- No, ma'am, I do not.

And so they sent you $20,000
for you and your boyfriend?

- What's his name, by the way?
- William.

- Does he go to school?
- He has graduated already.

- What kind of work does he do?
- He worked for Aflac.

- An insurance company?
- Yes, ma'am.

Until when?

Until recently around... was it August...
I'm wanna say the 18th,

he resigned of this year.

- You mean just now?
- Yes. Yes, ma'am.

On what date did you get
this $20,000?

I received it June 4th, I believe.

- Did you put it in a bank?
- Yes, ma'am.

- In whose name is the bank account?
- Mine.

- Personal?
- Yes. Checking.

Do you have a company,
an incorporated company anywhere?

- No, ma'am.
- When you applied

for this payroll protection program
from the government,

did you say you had a company?

Yes, I did.

And what was the name of the
company that you say that you had?

Crystallized Co.

Crystallized Co,
C-O is company?

- Yes. Company, yes.
- Company?

- Yes.
- Well, don't you know

that you have to have an...
a company incorporated?

You need to pay certain fees to the state.

You didn't do any of that.

Oh, you got to...

are you getting the clue
that what you did was perpetrating

a fraud getting money from the government

for a fake company?

It's not designed
for a girl and her boyfriend.

[announcer] Lashanda Bryant
says her 22-year-old daughter,


Jasmine Holmes,
owes for the cost of school.


Jasmine is countersuing
for emotional distress


and the loss of her belongings.

Okay.
Ms. Holmes, are you realizing now

that what you did was fraudulent?

Are you getting the clue
that what you did

was perpetrating a fraud
getting money from the government

for a fake company that didn't exist

with you and your boyfriend

who never filed a tax return
for Crystal Co,

never filed to incorporate Crystal Co.

The IRS just wrote
you a check for $20,000.

Don't you realize that...

No. No, Your Honor.

I was under the impression that the PPP
loan was to help small businesses.

- You don't have a small business!
- Yes, I do.

No! You don't have a small business
unless it's a company.

- Madam, and you and your boyfriend...
- It's not registered...

- ...are not a small company...
- ...LCC...

...because he worked
for Aflac until August 18th.

I do have a small business,
it's just not incorporated.

And so it's not designed...
listen to me.

It's not designed for a girl
and her boyfriend.

It's designed for people
who have a business,

a legitimate business in which
they have employees who pay taxes,

and it was designed for the pandemic

so that companies
that were laying off employees

could continue to pay them their wages.

Don't you understand that?

It's a lot of baloney.

Okay.

I've been in this business a long time.

I know baloney,
I know when it's raining outside,

or someone is peeing on my leg.

Unfortunately, the government
doesn't seem to have that sense.

Your mother paid off your school loan.

Are you going to school?

Yes, ma'am. I am fully enrolled.

I'm a full-time student.
I have 15 credits.

- Now.
- Yes, ma'am.

- Is she?
- I don't know. I don't...

- I have evidence that I am.
- ...talk to her.

Just a second.

She decided she didn't
wanna talk with me anymore.

I'd like...

I would like to see that she's
enrolled as a full-time student.

When did you start to take classes?

August 16th, 2021.

Did you take out any student loans?

No, ma'am. I did...
I did my application to FAFSA.

Unfortunately, it was rejected,
but I do have money

saved to pay for my college.

Is that from the PPP program?

That is for saving...
from savings that I saved from...

- But...
- ...my two jobs that I have to now.

Where are you living?

I live with my sister in Atlanta, Georgia.

- And where does the boyfriend live?
- He lives in Florida.

Did you tell your daughter you would
cover her tuition if she were in school?

What she owed in order
to get back into school?

Yeah.

- You told her that?
- Mm-hmm.

She's in school. She's in school.

- Well...
- You were annoyed

that she got all this money
and didn't pay her own tuition.

- Well, she...
- But that's what happened.

I mean, I assume 'cause you wrote
about it in your complaint.

So, I mean, I, I couldn't guess
at something like this...

you wrote about it in your complaint,
so I assume when she got this check

for $20,000 and didn't give you
back the money

that you had given her,
that you were annoyed.

I was, but when she came back

from her boyfriend visit,

I picked her up from the station
and she had an attitude.

Just a second.

Was this before
or after she got the money in June?

- It was before.
- That's not accurate at all.

- Just a second.
- Yes, ma'am.

When she went to visit with her boyfriend,

had she already received
the $20,000 check?

- No.
- No. Is that correct?

Yes, ma'am.

When she came back,
you said she had attitude.

You had an argument.
What month was that, in June?

- It was June.
- June what?

June 3rd through the 6th,
I went on a small vacation

to visit my boyfriend in Florida.

Okay. And what date did you
move out of your mother's house?

June 7th, when I got back,
that was the...

after the day of the dispute
I had with my mother in the car.

And on what date
did you receive this check?

June 4th.
I was already on the trip and...

So the money
went right into your bank?

Yes, ma'am.

Did you tell your mother about it?

My sister told her before I could.

And my mother text me like,
"Are you not going to give me my money?"

And I said, "I will send it to you now,"

because the original agreement
for my tuition, she asked me if,

if I had anything to contribute
from the job that I was working

at Sally's, I said I could...

Well, what happened...
what happened was,

they wouldn't send your transcripts
to the new school unless you paid off

the $5,000 that you owed the old school.

Yes, Your Honor.

So you had to pay that back.

You had $1,200,
your mother paid the other 3,800.

Yes, ma'am.

Okay. And that happened before.

And then your sister,
with whom you confided that you had

gotten this windfall from the government,

shared that information with your mother.

Yes, Your Honor.

And then when your mother
picked you up from the airport,

she said to you,
I assume you argued about this money.

No, actually...no, Your Honor.

So the 6th that I got back,

it was 4:15 in, in the morning.

My mother was complaining
that I wasn't doing my job or being...

doing enough for my school.

She was saying that I didn't apply myself.

She was saying that I didn't take
the necessary steps to get accepted

into Fort Valley University.

And I told her that everything that I did
over my break with my boyfriend

that I had handled the situation.

That June 7th, she sent me a text.

Here's the text right here
if you would like to see the evidence.

Sure.

- [Kevin] Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
- [Judge Judy] Sure.

She sent me a text saying
what's on that paper right there.

And I replied with what's
actually right there, is what...

You can give me
my phone and...yeah.

I believe that you said
that you would pay this tuition,

this $3,800 for her if she was in school.

She's in school,
so you don't get your $3,800 back.

You're counterclaiming,
which is ridiculous.

You say you...
your mother wasn't a good mother

and she was emotionally a*usive.

Yes, Your Honor.

Yeah. Well, some mothers
are less perfect than others.

Yes, Your Honor.

The case is dismissed, madam.
So is your counterclaim.

We're finished here.

[Kevin]
Court is adjourned.

I'm glad that she's actually in school.

I'm definitely gonna graduate.

There's no ifs or maybes or buts.
I'm definitely graduating.

We have a love-hate relationship.

She started...stopped talking to me
in February of 2017.

Like Judge Judy said, that,
that some mothers aren't fit.

I believe she's one of them.

I hope she graduates and,
and have a, a, a future of, you know,

maybe we probably can talk, but, hey.

I don't necessarily have
any hard feelings against my mother,

just know that she hurt me
and that I'm, I'm open to anything.

Sarah, if my recollection is correct,
this is the...

either the... second
or the third case that we've done

that involved abuse
of the payroll protection program.

It always strikes me that
if people spent as much time

working towards a positive,

productive goal,

as they spent in trying
to circumvent the rules,

that they would have
much more satisfying lives.

And this country probably wouldn't be

in the kind of debt circumstance it's in.

Anyway, I think that
the whole thing is terrible.

- Yeah.
- I don't...

- Especially...
- I don't know what to say.

Especially being
from New York City and seeing

a lot of small businesses, restaurants,
places I used to frequent a lot

with good employees,
hardworking people that have applied

and qualify for these types of loans,
and then to see some of the people

come through here like we've seen,
just abusing the system

and taking those opportunities
and that money from people

- that could really benefit...
- Who would benefit from it.

- So... it's unfortunate.
- True.

[announcer]
Are you having a family dispute?