01x16 - Gold Pocket-Watch Mystery

[bunniefuu]

The watch
that was returned to you

was not the same watch
that you had sent.

-That's right.
-You're lying.

The only one who can
actually verify is your mother.

Right.

Who am I speaking to?

Hello?

[dial tone buzzing]

Your mother didn't want to
talk to me and be embarrassed.

[narrator]
This is Judy Justice.

[upbeat music]

[narrator] John Diether
is suing antiques dealer

Anthony DeNigris

for the cost of a 14-karat
gold pocket watch.

[Kevin] Court, come to order.
All rise.

Have a seat, please.

[Kevin] Hello, Judge.

Case number 1046,
Diether versus DeNigris.

Thank you.

-Mr. Diether...
-Yes.

You sold an item
to the defendant

on an eBay account
that you have.

-Yes, ma'am.
-[Judy] It is your claim

that the defendant
returned something to you

that was not what you had
sent to him,

and then complained
to eBay about it.

That money was returned to him...

By force.

I don't need that.

My apologies.

[Judy] That money
was returned to him,

so you are out the money,
and you are out the item.

-Mm-mm.
-And in addition,

I believe that you say
something about a negative...

-Yes, ma'am.
-[Judy] ...post that he put up...

-It was not a...
-about you.

It-it was not a negative post.

Because of this
on our eBay record,

there was a mark called

"Case Settled
Without Seller Resolution."

-Okay.
-[John] And we lost

our top-rated seller status

which would have otherwise
been on all of our listings

for one year, plus we lost
the discount on eBay fees

that comes with top-rated
seller status, 20 percent off.

Okay, so now the item
that you posted for sale

-was a pocket watch.
-Yes, ma'am.

[Judy] It was allegedly
a 14-karat gold

antique pocket watch.

Now, from what I gather
from your paper, sir,

you work with a partner?

-Yes.
-Who is not here.

Right.

Who was the person
who you allege sourced the item.

That's right.

And sourced the item
through his company.

That's right.

And that company
is called Whitney.

No, no, no. My eBay user ID
is Whitney Co.

[Judy] Whitney Co.

What else do you sell
on Whitney Co.?

It was historically jewelry.

I had a jewelry concern that sold

over half a million dollars
on eBay since 1999.

The past couple of years,
as I had been in business

with my business partner,
he comes up with finds,

buys items that are
appropriate for eBay.

Now he's got
a very large enterprise,

but I get the stuff that's
the small high-value items.

Bring it up on your phone,
sir, for me, please.

I'd like to see
some of the items

that you currently
have for sale.

Here you can see, um...

[Judy] Okay, I'd
just like to see

what has been for sale...

-This is...
-[Judy] ...in the last month.

Okay. Well, I'm going to
give you my feedback ratings.

-These are my feed...
-No, no,

I don't want feedback ratings.

Well, well, the feedback gives...

-This is the last several...
-[Judy] Okay.

-[John] ...items sold.
-[Judy] Thank you.

And I also have,
uh, paper copies,

if you'd like to see things that
we sold around the same time.

Vintage Baronet leather
clutch wallet, very nice.

Vintage oriental bird opaque
China plate,

item was a great experience,
perfect packaging.

Okay, thank you.

Okay. Now, let's start off with,

when did you advertise
this watch for sale?

The auction started,
it's a seven-day auction,

it started in, uh, late March

and ended, I believe, April 4th.

Tell me when you saw the ad.

I'd seen the ad, uh,

right at the beginning
of the auction,

within hours of it being listed.

-And you put in a bid?
-[Anthony] Yes, I did,

-Your Honor.
-[Judy] Why?

Because it was
a solid gold watch

and it started off cheap,
so, you know, I was, of course,

I was gonna put in
a starting bid

because it was so low,

-in hopes of winning it.
-[Judy] Okay.

What kind of work do you do, sir?

I deal in antiques.

Where?

Uh, in North Carolina.

When you say
you deal in antiques,

how do you deal in antiques?

Go to auctions
on the weekends,

and sell and consign
higher-end auctions,

higher-end antiques.

How long have you
been doing that?

About ten years
with my father,

who's been doing it
his whole life.

-He's 73.
-And what was the final

price that you settled on?

On this watch, I won
the auction for 1,314 dollars.

Now, Mr. Diether...

Yes.
Your business partner,

who is not present,

actually was the one
who sourced this watch?

That's correct.

Do you operate out of the
same location as he does?

I live close by.

His store, he's got
a large retail store,

and I live close by.

The eBay stuff
I do out of my house, but...

-[Judy] Okay.
-I verified the watch

-because I've...
-[Judy] Shh.

Now, he sourced the watch.

Do you know when he sourced
the watch, and from where?

It was in March,

and he bought a lot of old items.

Some were valuable,

-some were not.
-[Judy] Okay.

He bought a lot,

and this watch allegedly
came from that lot?

-Yes.
-Did you purchase the lot?

Or did you purchase
individual items?

How was the business conducted?

Sure. This was
a client of Mr. Herzenberg's

who came in and had a,
uh, a box of old things

from a house that had been, uh...

I don't know that.
And that's hearsay.

-[John] Okay.
-So, you can't tell me.

I want to know what you did
with the watch.

[dramatic music]

Clearly, sir, your mother
didn't want to talk to me.

I mean, we're not
on good terms right now.

So, that's probably
one reason why.

Yeah, she's not
on good terms with you,

she would have loved
to talk to me.

But when she heard it was me,
she hung up.

So, she clearly didn't want to
talk to me and be embarrassed.

[dramatic music]

[dramatic music]

[narrator] John Diether
claims antiques dealer

Anthony DeNigris
owes him for the cost

of a 14-karat
gold pocket watch.

Anthony says
he received a watch,

but not the one he purchased.

Now, I want to know
what you did with the watch.

Oh, he gave me that
along with a lot of

other items to sell
that had decent value.

I got out my loop
and opened up the cover,

looked at the markings
and, uh, put all the markings

in the listing that it was
an Aurora watch,

uh, 15 jewel, uh,

that it was 14-karat gold throughout,

and put the dimensions in,
the weight,

and about


Okay. May I see
those photographs, please?

We only have one
because this is the one

that was in the actual
sales record,

and then the actual listing
is not obtainable from eBay

because after 60 days,
those listings go away.

I did call eBay...

Don't tell me, don't tell me
about the conversation.

[John] Oh, okay.

I may have a... I have
another photo, Your Honor.

It's the same photo,
only bigger.

[Judy] So, it's a closed-cover watch?

Yeah, it was closed-cover,

and then on the back,
it actually had two.

One to go over the mechanicals,

and then another one
to close it.

It had good weight.

Now, date sold on April 6,
date paid April 6,

date shipped April 6...

and date delivered April 11th,
all of 2020.

-Hm-mm.
-[Judy] Now, it was shipped

to a Pamela.
And who is that, sir?

[Anthony] That's my mother,
Your Honor.

She resides in Florida.

Where do you reside?

[Anthony] North Carolina.

Me and my fiancée
were visiting at the time.

Just... You sent this
to a post office box?

Right.
Her post office box.

-No.
-[Judy] Shhh. Just a sec.

You and your fiancée
went from North Carolina

in April of twenty-twenty
to visit your mother?

-Yes, ma'am.
-From when to when?

We were there
for two weeks approximately.

How did you get there?

We drove. We brought
our son, Michael, with us,

so she can see him,
her grandson.

When did you leave
North Carolina, what date?

This is almost
two years ago, Your Honor,

I mean, I don't...

It's not two years ago,
it's a year.

A year, a year
and some change, uh, I mean,

it was somewhere
towards the end of March.

And when did you get home?

Middle of April.

How old is your son?

He is four now.

-He had just turned three.
-In what...

We were actually there
for his birthday.

-[Judy] How... Shh, just a second.
-Sorry.

From what account
was this paid?

It was paid
from my PayPal account

that I have access to and use, it's...

[Judy] No, no, no, no, no.

Whose name
is the PayPal account in?

That's what
I was explaining to you.

It's under my sister's name,
Wendy.

Why?

We have multiple accounts
we do business with.

That's just the one I was using
that day that I paid this item...

particular item with.

What's your mother's
phone number?

Eight-six-three...

...three-zero...

[mutters softly] I believe the area code
is 863. I could have been wrong.

[woman] Hello?

Is this Pamela...?

This is Judge Judy Sheindlin.

Who am I speaking to?

Hello?

[sighs deeply]

Interesting. Clearly, sir,

your mother didn't
want to talk to me.

-[chuckles]
-[audience laughs]

I mean, we're not
on good terms right now,

so that's probably
one reason why.

Yeah, she's not
on good terms with you,

she would have loved
to talk to me.

Your mother probably loves me.

-[Anthony] She does.
-Yeah, I'm sure she does.

-Everybody loves you.
-[Judy] I'm, just a second.

I'm sure she does.

But when she heard it was me,
she hung up.

So, she clearly didn't want to
talk to me and be embarrassed.

So, this is what happened.

The watch that was
returned to you

was not the same watch
that you allege

-that you sent to the defendant.
-Yes, Your Honor.

You claimed that he sent
back in the box junk.

-Yes, ma'am.
-Now, the only one

who can actually verify

what was in that box
is somebody who,

for some reason,
didn't want to talk to me.

This is my witness
right here.

She was right there
when I opened the box.

-He did not send me the watch...
-[Judy] Just a second.

-I purchased...
-[Judy] Just a second.

-[Anthony] ...on eBay.
-Just a second.

-[Anthony] Okay.
-I don't know that...

-[Anthony] I already won the case on eBay.
-I don't know that

because the only person, sir,

the only person who can get
into that post office box

is your mother.

And she was there when we
opened the package to take it out.

-[Judy] Who's that?
-This is my fiancée, Stacie.

[Judy] I don't care.

-[audience laughs]
-[Anthony] Ma'am...

I don't care.

-We won the case with eBay.
-I don't care. I don't care.

He lost. He didn't respond
to none of my messages.

-I need a...
-[Judy] Just a second.

-That's not true, Your Honor.
-[Judy] Just a second.

That is absolutely true. You're lying.

-You're a liar.
-[Judy] Just a second.

-[Anthony] You tried to scam me.
-Just a second. Shh.

You just...
Sir, you may be right.

I'm absolutely right.

[Judy] I don't know
whether you are or not.

All I know is your mother
didn't want to talk to me.

By the way, you indicated
that you and your mother

-aren't on good terms now.
-That's right, we're not.

Well, I mean,
you schlepped with your child

hours and hours in a car

for your mother
to get to see her grandson.

That was then.

[John] Your Honor,
may I add something

-about where I shipped it?
-Yes.

I did not ship it
to the mother's address,

because he sent me a message that said,

"Please send it to Pamela."

Now this whole time
I'm filling with Pamela,

and he said, "Send it
to the street address

in Gibsonville, North Carolina."
That's where I sent it.

-Just a... Just a second.
-[Anthony] No, you wouldn't sent it there.

Just a second.

-Shh, just a second.
-That's where I sent it.

I'm just looking
in these shipping details

that you gave me.

It says that you shipped to
Pamela... Post Office Box...

-Get your story straight.
-Shhh.

Moore Haven, Florida.

That's what you just gave me.

[John] May I explain?

Sure.

He knew what he was doing.

[Judy] No, no, no, no, no, no.

-Don't tell me, just explain.
-[John] Okay.

Your Honor,
he sent me a message.

You can have
private messages in eBay.

Just, show it to me.

I don't have that off eBay.

Because the messages
go away after 90 days.

He told me to ship it to Pamela
with the Gibsonville address.

I never shipped to Florida
because he said ship it here.

And he said,
"And this is another one

of my verified
PayPal addresses."

Now if you have
a PayPal verified address,

you're safe to send it to there. Now...

[Judy] Just a second.

Could you repeat again
the address that you sent it to?

Yes, Your Honor.
I sent it to

90... Street, Gibsonville,
North Carolina, 27249,

at his request.

Shh, just one second.
Give me the zip code again, sir.

I don't write that fast.

-Stenography wasn't my thing.
-[John] My apologies.

Mine neither. Uh, 27249.

Stand up,
I have one question to you.

[dramatic music]

Judge Judy, you misunderstood
what I was saying.

I did not say I had it
shipped home.

-I said I was...
-Shhh.

[Anthony] ...trying to, in case
I had to leave Florida early.

You misunderstood
what I said completely.

That's why
I have a stenographer.

-[Anthony] Yes, ma'am.
-So...

I'll zip it.

[dramatic music]

[narrator] John Diether
is accusing antiques dealer

Anthony DeNigris
of returning the wrong item,

and keeping the 14-karat
gold pocket watch

he originally sold him.

Now, how long have you
been living together?

Seven years.

You have your wallet
with you?

It's in the trailer.

You have a driver's license?

I have an ID, yes.

[Judy] What's your address?

It's 90... Street.

-[Judy] Now sit.
-Okay.

[audience chuckles]

I want you
to explain to me if,

please don't play with papers,

-it's distracting to me.
-My apologies.

I'd like you to give me

what I consider
a plausible explanation...

[Anthony] Explanation
of how he had my address.

No...

-Very smart.
-Yeah, 'cause I'm intelligent.

-[Judy] Very smart.
-Yes.

I want you to give me
a plausible explanation of how...

[Anthony] I have.

[Judy] ...this man
has your home address.

Because he's not lying
about what he just said.

I did ask him to send it
to that address.

So, I did... in case
I left Florida early

and returned home
to North Carolina.

Would you read back,

would you read back to me,
Whitney,

what Mr. DeNigris said,
early on in the case,

when I asked him
why did he have it sent

to a post office box in Florida?

[Anthony] We were down there...
Right, I...

[Anthony chuckling]

Why did he have it sent
to a post office box,

and then I asked him for
his mother's telephone number,

because she would have been the
only one who could go into it.

And why did he tell me he had
it sent to a post office box?

Had something to do with,

they took the boy
to see his grandmother.

They drove, right,
it was before that.

[murmurs]

He said, "We drove.
We brought our son, Michael,

with us so she can see him,
her grandson."

No, no, no,
but it was before that.

I said, "Why would you send it
to a post office box?"

And he answered me.

He said,
"Me and my fiancée

were visiting at the time."

That-that was his answer
why he sent it to a post office.

[Whitney] "And we were there
for two weeks approximately."

[Anthony mumbles]

[Judy] There, right.

And now I want you to go forward
to where we just sort of

left off when he said
he had it shipped home,

-to his home.
-[Anthony] No, I did not say

-I had it shipped home.
-At 902...

Judge Judy, you misunderstood
what I was saying.

I did not say
I had it shipped home.

-I said I was just trying to
-[Judy] Shhh.

in case I had to leave Florida early.

That's what I said.

-[Judy laughs]
-You misunderstood

what I said completely.

-He said...
-That's why I have a stenographer.

-[Anthony] Yes, ma'am.
-[Judy] So...

I'll zip it.

[smiles] He said,
"I did ask him to send it

"to that address in case
I return from Florida early

and return home
to North Carolina."

That's such a lot
of doublespeak.

-[audience laughing]
-You either had it

sent to a post office box

which you said
you had it sent to,

or "I had him send it
to my house

in case we left early."
That's ridiculous.

[Anthony] The bottom line,
Your Honor, is he just sent...

Bottom line, nothing.

[Anthony] I opened the case...
Bottom line, nothing.

[Anthony] ...with eBay,
I won the case.

Okay, they decided
in my favor.

He appealed it, he lost,

he never responded to
not one of my messages...

asking him did, what,
why do I have this watch

that I didn't purchase?

This is not the watch
I purchased.

I was looking for an explanation.

He never responded to me one time.

[John] I have the...

-This right here, says that.
-[Judy] Just a second.

This is from eBay,
if you want to read this.

Oh, I absolutely do.
But listen to me, sir.

eBay isn't as smart as I am.

-[Anthony] I never said they were.
-They didn't ask you...

they didn't ask you
where you sent the watch.

You gave me, in a short span
of seven minutes,

two different explanations
why you had the watch sent

-I did not.
-to two different states.

You misunderstood
what I was saying.

I just had it read back to you.

[Anthony] You obviously
misunderstood it again.

Well, then I ask you, how
did he get your home address?

And I said I wrote him
a message on eBay stating,

"Can you please send this
to North Carolina

in case I return home early?"
That's what I said.

For the third time,
you misunderstood

-what I was saying.
-[Judy] Just a second.

[laughs] Okay.

I rely on you, Whitney.

[Anthony laughs]

[Judy] Thank you. Okay. [sighs]

Thirteen-fourteen judgment
for the plaintiff.

-[Anthony] Good for him.
-We're finished.

Your Honor,
what about, uh...?

[Kevin] Court is adjourned.

-Thank you.
-[upbeat music]

She saw what, right through

what he was trying to pull,
and that he could stand up there

in front of her
and lie like that.

It was definitely not.
This is my witness right here.

She was right there when I
opened the, opened the package.

It wasn't... first off, it was silver,

and it wasn't gold.

It was not real. It was crappy.

And, um, you know,
we do this all the time.

I mean, he's,
he knows what he does.

No, that-that is not true.

And, um, well, the allegation
that they made was that I sent,

they sent it back to me,
a piece of junk,

not even a silver watch,
a metal piece of junk.

That's exactly what he did.

He sent me the item,
the wrong item.

I didn't purchase that.

That's not what I purchased
for 1,340 dollars.

I was very upset that my money
was being tied up

for more than ten days while
I had an item I didn't purchase.,

I couldn't do anything with.
It was a piece of junk.

That I chose them out of 36,000

satisfied customers to scam,

that's pretty lucky, I would say.

I won't buy from him no more,

-that's right.
-[Stacie laughs]

Well, the thing is, uh,

I've already reported
this gentleman to eBay,

so they will be
on the lookout for him

so he can't pull this again.

Otherwise, it's a
once-in-a-20-year problem.

[Judy] I'm going to tell you
a cute story.

I don't know.
You know that case,

the takeaway from that case is,
I suppose you have to be careful

when you buy something
from eBay.

Make sure it's from
a legitimate firm,

and you have to make sure
that the people

you're selling it to
are legitimate people.

But it's a cute story.

eBay has been in existence
for about 24 years.

And I know that because Jerry
and I went away to a Club Med,

just about that time,


And on the plane
coming home with us,

the couple sitting behind us
was a young man with a guitar

and his girlfriend,
and we'd been talking

because I had just started
my first program,

and he said he was starting
a new business.

The next day, he was going to
appear on the Today Show

to sell something, I don't know,
a vest or a jacket

with his new company
called eBay.

And he tried to tell me something
about the company,

and the company he said
was started

because his girlfriend
collected Pez dispenser tops

and he was helping her

to find other people
who collected and traded

Pez dispenser tops.

I've never purchased anything
on eBay myself.

I'm not that sophisticated
with the machine,

but I always remember
that young man

and how happy I am
for him to have,

a quarter of a century later,

something that is in
everybody's vernacular

and part of everybody's life.

Anyways, you know,
I guess the takeaway is,

you got to have a dream.

[dramatic music]

[narrator]
Are you a victim of a scam?



[dramatic music]