05x01 - Episode 1

[bunniefuu]

I question sometimes the man I married

because our views are so different.

[Jason] Questioning marriage over that.

[Marjorie] Yes, absolutely.

I didn't vote on the basis

of screwing over whatever she thinks--

-You know, women's rights. -Why? Yeah, but why? I ask why.

Hold on, hold on.

She's spitting talking points

that are coming from certain news outlets.

Where am I getting my information?

All you do is watch one channel.

All day long, every day.

And you get your news from freaking Facebook.

I would never question our marriage

over who you voted for politic-wise.

It's your morals. Right or wrong.

["Mind Your Own Business" by Delta playing]

[protesters shouting]

♪ Can I have a taste of your ice cream? ♪

♪ Can I lick the crumbs from your table? ♪

♪ Can I interfere in your crisis? ♪

♪ No, mind your own business ♪

[Orna]People have become a lot more fearful and suspicious.

♪ Can I have a taste of your ice cream? ♪

Much more in a state of mind of like us versus them.

The media has dramatically split us

so that we are each consuming

a very different version of reality.

You know, a couple is a mini political system.

Harmony.

[Orna]When differences arise

within the couple,

it's very anxiety-provoking.

And it can put us at w*r with each other.

Oh, it smells good in here.

♪ Can I have a taste of your ice cream? ♪

♪ Can I interfere in your crisis? ♪

♪ No, mind your own business ♪

[Orna] So, what troubles the two of you?

We fight every day.

Well, we don't fight every day.

Well, we argue every day.

Well, we we have different levels of disagreement.

Whenever there's a major decision to be made,

my input will briefly be listened to.

-Mm-hmm. -And then trumped out

if it's not agreed with.

No negotiation. No, "I understand."

I get trumped.

-So it's my second marriage... -[Orna] Mm-hmm.

...and I have a -year-old and a -year-old.

[Orna] Mm-hmm.

And then we have a son together.

So we're moving in a few weeks,

and he doesn't understand that it's hard

for a teen girl in high school

to just move schools and start a new school.

And I am gonna take it upon myself

to inconvenience myself for two years

for her emotional well-being.

I get it. I was her.

But how are you gonna inconvenience yourself?

[Marjorie] Because I'm gonna be driving an hour.

Eighty miles one way

to bring the kids to school in the morning,

[Marjorie] But he is dead set against it.

They struggle to get to school on time right now,

and they're only minutes away.

When they're an hour and minutes away,

it's gonna be a nightmare, and they have to get up--

They have to get up, you know, at : o'clock in the morning.

[Orna] Got it. So let me ask the two of you.

You have two different opinions on what's the right thing to do.

[Marjorie & Jason] Yeah.

What happens when you try to talk about it?

-I try to have-- -I just don't care what he says.

I'm just doing what I'm gonna do.

So you've reached a point

where you don't even try to negotiate--

[Marjorie] There's no negotiating with him.

I start to tune out because I'm just so sick and tired

of hearing him rant and rave about certain things.

-So like when it comes to this-- -[Orna] Okay.

-I know that's not right. -No I get it.

Ranting and raving can cause people to shut down.

However, the less you listen,

the more the other person is gonna rant and rave.

-That's kind of true. -[Orna] They need to feel heard.

-That's exactly-- -That is my life.

-Even if I don't agree with it? -Right.

-Just for the other person... -Or acknowledge me.

...to feel heard.

-So... Okay, so-- -[Orna] You don't have to agree.

You're different and you have different opinions about things.

That's fine.

Don't get me started about politics.

What's the politics?

Oh, please! I don't know if you have enough time in your day.

He is, I guess, a Republican.

And I don't understand.

We have daughters. I'm a woman.

How do you vote and support a man who...?

However I feel about it, you know,

has been convicted of felonies.

I didn't vote to say screw them

back when Trump ran the first time.

I got kind of glued to the TV when he was on

and I was watching the stuff and I was reading about it

because I always liked Trump back before the politics.

You know, back when he was inHome Alone

and he was a pop star.

Tyson fights at the Taj Mahal.

Like, he was a thing in my-- Me growing up, you know?

And nobody hated him like they hate him now.

He was a normal guy.

I mean, political disagreements--

Obviously, you're not the only ones that politically disagree.

Do you-- Can you tell me

what does the other person care about?

-Like, what she cares about? -[Orna] Mm-hmm.

-In terms of politics. -Yeah, I could.

[Orna] Okay.

She cares about, you know, women's rights and...

Um, you know, uh...

-Mostly a lot of women's rights. -Just women?

-No, no-- -[Orna] Wait a second.

-Women-- -Can I have this?

-[Orna] Yeah, it's for you. -Oh, God!

-Women, women's rights. -He's making me sweat.

You know...

Uh...

The g*y community, LGBTQ community.

Not that I don't care about any of that.

-[Orna] Okay. -Because I still do.

[Orna] But I'm asking you what she cares about.

But that's what she stands for.

And Marjorie, can you say what Jason cares about?

I don't know. Maybe...

I don't know. Money?

-I've said so. -Taxes?

I've said things.

He thinks our taxes will go down.

[Jason] I mean, I've said it to you a lot.

You've talked a lot about politics?

[Jason] Yeah, we've gone into conversations about it.

You have not done a good job talking about politics

because you don't know what each other care about.

Yeah.

You're not listening to each other.

[both] Hmm.

What you need to be doing

if you want to be doing any kind of therapeutic work

and make things better is you need to learn how to listen.

Doesn't mean you have to agree with each other.

But you've obviously stopped doing that.

sh*t.

Do you think the two of you can spend,

I don't know, ten minutes,

like just asking each other,

"What do you care about politically?"

[Marjorie] Without...

Without arguing, without Influencing.

Mm-hmm. I could do it. I could talk about my points.

I could definitely talk about my points too.

[Orna] Yeah.

Then what do we do after that?

You get a quiz.

[all laugh]

-From you? -Oh, sh*t.

I'm half joking.

You don't do anything. You just listen.

♪ dramatic music playing ♪

[indistinct chatter]

[door sensors chime]

-Thank you. -Yeah.

[Chris] We've been together, married for years.

Three kids. Um, three animals.

-Mm-hmm. -We grew up in the same area,

but we didn't know each other as kids or teenagers.

-Yeah. -We went to rival high schools.

We were both back in the area as adults.

And my friend was like, "Let's go hang out."

There's like a dive bar that everybody goes back to,

and I saw her mutual friend, and we were introduced.

And then she looked up at me and she just-- It just came out.

She said, "I want to sit on your face."

[Sienna] No, I said, "You're very handsome."

I said, "You're very handsome. I want to sit on your face."

I had been drinking. I am sober now.

I don't drink.

But it's kind of who I am.

That was a dramatic beginning.

She put her hair in front of her face and she went,

"Oh, I'm so awkward."

And I just thought, "You're the best."

And we just talked and talked and talked.

We got married six months after we met,

and then gotten pregnant six months after that.

I just went with the flow and next thing I know, I'm like,

I've got a baby and a wife, and here we are.

-[Orna] Mm-hmm. -It worked out.

[laughs]

-Except... -Except-- Yeah.

-Except? -[Chris] Yeah.

Tell me.

A few days after Christmas,

um, she found out that I had been cheating on her.

I thought we were happy...

for the last two years.

I thought we were really good, actually.

I'd been a stay-at-home mom for seven years.

So as soon as I went back to work...

I guess is when it started?

-Kind of, yeah. -And...

you weren't that happy, I guess.

Ten years later, there's this profound betrayal.

There was a part of our dynamic that wasn't working.

-And it was-- -How? How?

So I had a very difficult childhood.

My mother abused me profoundly.

And so...

I tried to be the best son ever.

And so our dynamic was,

I'm gonna just do all the things and be the best husband ever,

and if you have a problem with anything I've done,

if you want to talk to me about something you don't like,

it was almost like, "How dare you?"

-Mm-hmm. -[Chris] I would just shut down.

I would disassociate.

Then I switch gears and I go into attack mode,

and I just try to annihilate her.

And literally this-this-this dynamic relived itself

over and over and over again.

We called it "dead shark eyes." I called it "dead shark eyes,"

when he would just, like, totally not be there.

I remember the first time it happened, you were like...

I could light myself on fire

and I don't think you would show any emotion

and I thought at the time...

Emotions are inaccessible to me at that point.

Sienna, you...

I'm interested in you...

earlier saying that you thought things were great.

Yeah, I mean...

[Orna] How-how-how do we put that together here?

That's such a good question. I don't know.

I mean, other than that...

-What do you mean? -[Chris] Yeah, sorry.

[laugh]

Um...

I think I was being a great wife.

I was working and I was doing great with the kids

and I was making an extra effort.

Like, I was really paying attention to him.

You seem stressed, why don't you go have a weekend away?

Or why don't I take the kids for a few hours.

And then I felt good. I was like, "Yeah!"

I'm... I'm making more time for you.

And then that's not what happened.

Then you used that time for other things.

Yeah.

Do you want to talk about the cheating?

Yeah, it started with platonic cuddling.

Like, you're providing the cuddling service,

and I'm paying for the cuddling service.

After some time with two of the people,

it got physical, like outside of the arranged cuddle.

And so there was the emotional intimate sort of connection.

Uh, infidelity.

And then literally the physical sexual infidelity.

So... and even afterwards,

I'd say I would have rather been with my wife for the two hours.

Like, why am I doing this?

Um...

-But then I would still do it, -[Orna] Right.

And where are you during this, Sienna?

I think what's painful and why it makes me angry

is I don't know who you are.

You say this like you're absolved from it.

Like, you admit it and it's like, "I'm accountable."

-No, I... -I know.

But that's what it feels like.

It's so easy for you to say now.

Why wasn't it easy for you

when I gave you the opportunity

the very first time I found out?

And that more kept coming up, kept coming up, kept coming up.

Well, it didn't come up. I dug for it and found it.

Yeah, she--

And it makes me f*cking furious.

-Furious? -Having to go through your phone

after seeing a text pop up randomly.

Who's that? Why is she-- somebody texting him

"I miss you"?

"I miss you too."

Saying "Hey, who's this? What's this?"

And you lying straight to my face.

Yeah.

and it makes me furious

that I was so f*cking stupid

to think that you'd be honest with me

and never cheat on me because you love me so much.

-That's what it felt like. -Yeah.

It felt like you would never, ever do this.

You were my guy,

You're my forever.

And it broke me.

I went into an intensive outpatient program

and stopped working for three months

because I could not function.

How are you feeling when Sienna is saying this?

[Chris] f*cking awful.

I mean, I recognize I'm not all an awful person.

-[Orna] Yeah. -But I almost feel evil.

And it terrifies me.

Am I just that guy?

Like, at one point, she's like, "Are you a sociopath...

with your disassociation?"

Like, what the f*ck?

And for a while, I was like, "Am I?"

Like, how could I possibly do this?

But it sounds like both of you need to, like, get through

a certain level of co-dissociation.

What does that mean?

Meaning you're both dissociating.

Oh.

There's like a whole part that you need to like,

integrate into how you understand each other

and your relationship.

How do we do that?

[Orna] Well, we'll try to do that here.

Oh, my gosh.

You just blew my mind apart.

[both laugh]

♪ gentle music playing ♪

[Orna]Infidelity, to me,

It's like a play within a play.

The big play is their relationship,

and then the infidelity is the play within it

that tells me about their history and what happened.

Then it's interesting, like, what's going on there?

Sometimes there are very profound reasons

why people lie.

People lie to avoid punishment.

People lie to avoid shame.

People lie to protect other people

feeling like that's the right thing to do.

They fear that there are all sorts of, like,

truths that would be unbearable.

They fear that if they express,

that they will inflict real damage on the other.

[laughing] What are you doing?

-Sit down. -I'm good.

I'm chilling. I'm chilling, you know what I mean?

-Such a weirdo. -Oh no, oh no. I'm parched.

Like... on God.

-Hi! -Hello.

Dr. Guralnik, how you feeling?

[Shay] Oh, my goodness.

-Could he be any cuter? -It's a she.

Oh, thank you, thank you. Proper pronouns are important.

[Orna] Proper pronouns, especially for her.

[Clinton laughing]

Tell me about yourselves.

-[Shay sighs] -Ladies first.

Trans woman. My pronouns are she/her/hers.

I have been in transition for about years now.

Awesome.

Some of my friends would call me

a bit of a traditionalist, in a way.

How so?

In the way

that I perform femininity.

That I've gotten much more comfortable

with the fluidity, but it is, uh...

It's an adjustment.

Yeah.

But at a time before that...

Oh, he's just stimming.

-Yeah, Clinton is-- -He's stimming?

-Yeah Clinton is autistic. -[Orna] Mm-hmm.

Uh, I like to say that. I like to say that.

Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, baby.

I am autistic and I have ADHD.

Um...

probably undiagnosed until my s with both.

I'm a teacher, so I've been working with kids years.

-What kind of teacher? -I worked with preschool before.

I'm moving into working with children with disabilities.

So... okay, I want to zoom out.

-[Shay] Yeah. -Um...

Tell me about the two of you.

[Shay] Yeah, um...

[Clinton] So we met on a dating app.

The first week that we saw each other,

we went on about...

In seven days went about five dates,

the last date being an IKEA date.

We had a connection.

We have a lot of similarity in our storylines

and our trajectory.

It's something that I think

has kept me in this a very long time.

Like, she really is like one of the only people

that, like, I consistently talk to every day.

We've never stopped talking.

We talk every day since we met.

What do you think you need to work on?

-[Shay] Communication. -What does that mean?

Lately, our arguments have gotten...

uh...

extreme.

He wants to move in together,

and I'm scared of what will unfold

because every time I share something with him

that he doesn't agree with,

it becomes a full-blown argument.

At times, he can even go non-verbal

if we get in an argument.

Non-speaking. We don't say non-verbal.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

Uh, he will not speak. And then, I...

I've never had that happen. It was a first time for me.

I texted my roommate.

I'm like, "I don't know what to do.

He's not talking."

What starts the cycle?

Me knowing myself now,

a lot of it is just like my lack of understanding

of people as an autistic person.

I didn't have a lot of friends growing up,

so really the only person I have at the moment

and like most of the time was Shay.

[Shay] When we started dating,

he pulled away from his mom.

It's very hard being his only resource.

I say this all the time to him that at least if I had his mom--

Do you know what I mean? To understand and find some...

-She doesn't even understand me. -I know that.

And I know that...

I'm just speaking from my own perception.

I understand that, sweetie.

I...

At least if there was someone to tether to,

to be like...

"Let me talk about this with you."

Like, you'll understand me.

And-- But there isn't that.

[Clinton] Sure, I mostly lived with my mom in Brooklyn,

but I've made it on my own by myself for four years.

But you're not on your own.

You have-- You have a partner who's--

No, no, what I mean is-- No, what I mean is, like,

What I mean is "by my own,"

I'm not living in my mom's house.

That's what the framework comes from.

Wait, you're saying something that I'm not privy to.

I have a different idea of "on your own"

than he does as well.

When I say, "On my own," I don't have any family

to ask for help.

I don't have anyone securing my bag,

keeping me safe.

-And for me-- -He has me.

He has been on his own with me as his partner.

Someone secure, on their game.

-[Orna] Do you have him? -[sighs]

-[Clinton] I do, but... -What's-- Wait, hold on.

-[Clinton] Sorry. -What's that?

[sighs]

I love Clinton for who he is,

but...

his inconsistency in work,

his inconsistency in emotion,

it's burdening.

How does that register with you?

I don't want to be a burden.

And I feel bad saying that.

Like, I just want to share.

Yeah, I have a lot of trouble with people, okay?

That's why I got the autism diagnosis.

-[Orna] Mm-hmm. -So I can get better.

I don't want to be a burden, and I felt like that at home.

You know?

And I don't want to hurt his feelings.

Like, that's what I mean.

It's hard to be...

It's very hard to be honest.

Like... and not...

create pain.

And that's not something I want to do.

-[Orna] Mm-hmm. -[sniffles]

♪ percussive music playing ♪

[Orna]I have, like, a really intense group...

of couples.

Everybody's a little more crazed.

Anxious, crazed, pushed to the edge.

And versions of the truth

that are somehow competing versions

of the truth.

[Orna] The question of, like, post-truth.

Are we living in a post-truth era?

It's very hard to kind of decipher

what to believe in.

And I think it shows up

in people's anxiety about their partner.

Like, what are they selling them?

She kept lying to me and lying to me about it.

Honestly, if you just had come f*cking clean.

[Jason] I understand what you're saying,

but I don't believe it entirely.

I'm allowed to believe what I believe.

-I'm not lying! -You sure?

You positive you're not lying? Do you really want to say that?

I can pull up receipts that you are lying.

-Want me to say you're lying? -Do you hear threatening me?

Fool me once, shame on you.

Fool me twice, I'm a f*cking idiot, right?

The Dance of Anger.

Ooh,Emotional Blackmail.

They really looked into you before they chose the books.

[both laugh]

[Nessa] Married years.

We were together on and off before that

for about ten additional years.

So together, it's about years.

[Orna] So tell me about yourselves.

What's bringing you to me?

Well, I think it's important that Ness takes the lead

because like everything that's wrong is,

like, all the things that you think are wrong.

Say what you want to say.

Ness wants to be free and live a free person's life

doing and coming and going as she sees fit

while also being married

and having someone stay at home

and be a good wife at home.

A lot of what she's summarizing is not correct.

I don't want to live a life of freedom.

I feel like throughout our marriage,

I kind of lost my individuality, my sense of self.

I also feel like I've evolved in ways.

And I want the freedom to explore

the ways in which I evolved.

The mismatch comes in it where I feel like

she has not evolved.

I feel like we previously discussed together

not using the use of the word "evolve."

I don't-- I don't know.

I just don't like it because I'm not...

unevolved, I'm not just blabbering.

That's a way that I'm using to describe--

We're going to each use your own idioms,

and then we'll find a way in between.

I've said to her before, maybe a separation

where you work on your...

What do you-- What do you want me to use

besides the word "evolve"?

I work on my evolution, and we--

If we come back together, great. If not, we're still co-parents.

And how is this breakup different

than the first breakup or the second breakup?

For one, there's a child in this marriage, right?

Trust me, I've been consider--

-[Orna] How old is your child? -[both] Four.

Trust me, that is number one on my mind.

Trust me on this.

What are you thinking?

I feel like we should spend more time talking about...

how great I think we are.

-We are really good together. -We're best friends.

We're best friends.

She is the best friend I've had.

When it's just her and I in the home, we are wonderful.

Awesome.

"But I can't level you up."

She said that, that she wants someone

who can help her ascend.

And I can't help her ascend.

-What does that mean? -[Drea] I don't know.

What does that mean, "I can help her ascend"?

[Nessa] Throughout our relationship,

I have felt like I want to live my life.

I have dreams. I have aspirations.

And I'm dragging her with me.

Like what?

[Nessa] I want to travel more by myself

and maybe go out to different places by myself.

I think that's weird.

-[Orna] What do you mean? -In a marriage.

To travel without your spouse.

And when you met me, when she met me,

I told her clear, "I need my alone time."

And you?

I'm a pack animal.

I don't know, there's safety in numbers.

She has attachment, I think, with people,

and needs to be attached in order to feel comfort.

Mm-hmm.

I kind of want to be with someone

who can co-lead.

We'll use the word "drive."

I would like another driver.

But for most of our relationship,

Andrea has been a passenger and I've been driving.

What does that look like at home?

[laughs]

-I delegate duties. -Yes.

Delegated everything in the kitchen to her as of as of late.

This is such a good segue.

So I am the person who does the shopping

and prepares all the meals.

And when I say something

about spending my entire day in the kitchen,

she will say something like,

"Well, I could bring up what I do

that makes you have to spend the time in the kitchen."

-Referring to the fact that... -[Orna] That?

...she pays the bills and I'm not doing anything,

so the least I could do is cook dinner.

The point of that is, don't complain about what you do

If I'm not complaining about what I do.

I feel like it doesn't matter what I say.

It doesn't matter what example I give.

-It doesn't matter... -[Orna] Well, it matters to me.

-Well... -[Orna] I'm listening.

I'm not married to you.

She knows what she knows and she thinks what she thinks.

It will take me light years to reach a point

that she thinks she could be an equal with me.

How old were the two of you when you met?

[laughs]

I think I was .

And I guess .

Twenty, twenty-two.

So you really grew up together.

Yes, with the caveat that I feel like I am shedding

a lot of who I used to be.

But I can't explore that

if I stay in the dynamic that is us

because that is our pattern.

And there's still more work that needs to be done.

-On both our parts. -[Orna] Mm-hmm.

And sometimes, I feel like more work needs to be done

on her part so I can go and do more work on my part.

So I don't see how that happens with us

being infused and enmeshed the way we have been.

-Any thoughts on that? -Nope.

Shutting down.

-Are you shutting down now? -Nope.

I just don't have any thoughts.

I bet there are married couples

who wish they they felt enmeshed with their lover.

-[Orna] Mm-hmm. -But...

to Ness, it's drowning her.

It's strangling her.

Like, you even say "enmeshed" and it sounds like

it's a derogatory word.

We were enmeshed like the first five,

six years of our relationship.

Wasn't bad.

[Nessa] I'm not putting a negative spin

on our closeness at all.

I just also want to get back into things

that make up me,

and get back into, like, feeling inspired about life.

And sometimes I do feel like...

my world shrinks when it's just us.

[Orna] Yeah.

["Easier" by Mansionair playing]

♪ Face up ♪

♪ Untouched ♪

♪ Gazing at the ceiling ♪

♪ Game's up ♪

♪ Never bring you down ♪

♪ I'm stuck, I'm stuck ♪

♪ I'm stuck ♪

♪ I'm stuck with you ♪

♪ Tell me it gets easier ♪

♪ Tell me it gets easier ♪

♪ Tell me it gets easier ♪

♪ That I'll figure it out ♪

♪ Tell me it gets easier ♪

♪ Tell me it gets easier ♪

♪ Oh, tell me it gets easier

♪ That I'll figure it out ♪

♪ Easier, easier, easier ♪

♪ Easier, easier, easier Easier, easier... ♪