So he has a lot of...
birthday...
stuff.
Always has.
I have been...
unsuccessful
[chuckles] for 20 years
and so two
years ago,
I was pulling out sto--
all the stops.
Like, I had planned
this huge weekend,
I had -- I was
trying so hard,
but in my focus on...
-the weekend...
-Mm-hm.
I had been...
not attentive...
during that week
leading up to it
and he kept
saying to me...
basically, "You're barking
up the wrong tree,"
and I wasn't listening.
And I wasn't getting it.
And I was like,
"Oh, just --
just shh."
Like, "I jus--
I gotta -- I gotta...
Just wait 'til the weekend,
just wait 'til the weekend."
And he said...
"Cancel everything.
I don't --
I'm not going with you.
I don't --
I don't --
I don't want anything.
I don't want this.
And by the way,
where is my passport?"
And he went to Italy.
-[laughs]
-[laughs]
♪groovy bass
and drums♪
♪waiting room
music♪
[exhales deeply]
[sighs]
[exhaling deeply]
Woo.
Okay.
[whispering]
Don't touch me.
[laughs] [whispering]
Stop it.
[sighs]
-[unintelligible]
-Yeah.
-Hi.
-Hi.
-Hey.
-Hi.
-Have a seat.
-Okay.
[Mau] I don't have
complicated needs.
I am utterly transparent
and completely communicative
about what it is I want.
I'm also...
totally consistent.
I am the easiest person...
to --
to deal with.
Says you.
Says me.
Well, say it.
What -- what are
your wishes?
All I want is,
er...
See, I'm gonna try to
think of how to say it
so it doesn't
sound terrible.
Well, say it
terrible.
So what I want
is to...
-have zero responsibility.
-Mm-hm.
To have all
the sex I want
without any...
any work on
my part
of any kind.
[chuckles]
Like, zero work.
-Zero thinking about it.
-Mm-hm.
And...not --
And it has
to be both...
spectacular
and enthusiastic
and genuine.
Um, so that --
But you want
the -- the --
the birthday experience
to be like that?
Like with -- with the
birthday for example.
[Orna]
Birthday, yeah.
-So what happened?
-She was putting in all this...
-For you, what happened?
-all -- all this effort...
but...
the things she was
doing is the things
that she could only
imagine I would want
if she never was
paying attention.
For example?
For example, it was
gonna be...
a costume calendar
and then it was
a dominatrix
-and then it was...
-[chuckles]
like --
She had, like...
You know, uh, was probably,
like, a threesome.
It was like...stuff.
Sexual events?
-Yes. All -- all -- Yes.
-Oh, yeah.
But you knew
about it.
It wasn't a surprise.
-Mmm --
-No.
It wasn't a complete
surprise.
You know, part of it, she was
so enthusiastic about it
she couldn't keep it
to herself.
-Okay.
-And I was just like --
You heard these
potential exciting
events as...?
Mm-hm.
Well, I didn't hear
them as anything.
I just simply
observed that...
you're doing what
you want to do...
for me instead of
what I want you
to do for me.
-And --
-So to get...
-Mm-hm.
-even more into the weeds...
-Yeah, sure.
-So, for example,
the sexual fantasies
played out
would be Annie's sexual
fantasies and not yours?
-Well, not exactly.
-Is that what we're saying?
No, they -- they were
sort of like...
her description
of what mine were
if you never
listened to me.
I mean, they were
objectively --
They were some...
fantasy of what you want,
-but it's not really...
-Right.
hitting the mark.
To begin with,
they all sound
like fun.
-Okay.
-There's no problem there.
They were all --
it was all good.
If it had just
been...
-a random Saturday...
-Mm-hm.
and not your
birthday...
-also...
-I see.
it may have been
a little more welcome.
-I see.
-It was this pressure of...
-his birthday.
-But because it was a birthday,
it felt particularly
misattuned?
-Is that what you're saying?
-Well, y-- yeah, y-- yes.
-I mean --
-Every year.
It's a trap.
If this is it,
if this is,
like, the --
the big hoorah,
this is what I --
I've been...
Mr. Amazing was...
like, waiting, enh,
and this was it?
Then, like,
no thanks.
I'm -- I'm just
not interested.
You became...
angry.
I don't think
angry,
I think I'm
disappointed.
-Mm-hm.
-Uh...
I don't know what
I'm doing wrong.
I don't know what I
could do differently.
You don't know what
you're doing wrong?
Yes.
Like, i-- So imagine that...
I want her to do
something differently,
-right?
-Mm-hm.
I could get her do
whatever I want.
That's not what
I want.
What I want is for her
to do whatever I want
without me...
having to...
make it happen.
To just...
You know I want
a glass of water
before I ask
and it's there
waiting.
And that --
C--can I ask you
something?
Of course.
Did you ever
have anybody...
take care of you
like that?
No.
That sounds really
maternal.
That sounds like,
you know,
a mother/infant
bond.
Yes, we have our
moments with lovers
where that can...
happen, but
I don't...
I don't know,
that's just what
occurred to me
when you were
saying it.
That's a pretty profound
thing to say.
Really?
Not a fairly...
-obvious...
-[laughs]
distracting...
insignificant...?
[laughing] I thought
it was profound.
What is profound
about that?
How is that
profound?
[sighs]
Th-- th--
Drawing that
parallel?
Is it -- I mean,
that's like --
-Like, duh?
-I'm sure if you open up
one of these
books,
it's on the first
f*ck' page.
I'm just wondering
if you're aware
of how...
quickly you moved
to devaluation.
Do you know
that?
I -- I think that
I don't care
how quickly I moved
to devaluation.
Whether you care
about it or not --
Am I -- am I aware
that sometimes,
I move quickly
to devaluation?
Yes.
But I'm also
noticing...
um...
how difficult it is
to actually meet you.
I notice even
in the way
I'm talking
to you...
Mm-hm.
that it's very
hard to...
get it right.
Like when I try
to say back to you
what's goin' --
what I just heard...
Mm-hm.
it's never right.
And when you
correct me,
I can see why you're
correcting me.
Mm-hm.
I understand
the nuance
and where I missed
the point.
That's very
frustrating for me.
-Yes, I'm --
-What I wanna hear...
is...why...
is...the moment
where someone
is not just
right...
-Mh-hm.
-not just right...
why is that so
devastating?
That's yours.
I don't know that
it's devastating,
I think it's --
[laughing] See, you
did it just then.
"Devastating" is not
quite the right word,
and you're going to correct
the word devastating
and you can't see
that "devastating"...
might have,
like...
Well, she's --
It is simply
not...devastating.
That is not a proper
use of that word...
in any other
wor--
I mean, uh, unless
you're being hyperbolic
and I don't know what
the point of that would be.
If the point
was clearly --
I wasn't being
hyperbolic.
I'm actually
assuming that...
on some --
in some way --
How about "deeply
inconvenient?"
No, I don't think
it's inconvenient.
I think there's
a much more --
-I do.
-emotional...
um...
[sighs]
-under...lying...
-Mm-hm.
structure
to this.
Okay.
How can we
quickly...
determine...
whether that --
that's true
or not?
You can ask yourself
if you...
want to take something
of what I'm saying
to see if it's useful
to you...
Okay.
or if you want
to spar with me.
If you don't want
to spar with me,
we don't
have to...
discuss the
accuracy,
we just have
to see...
if it's useful...
what I'm saying,
whether it's
accurate or not.
I don't know
how to do that.
I don't know that
I've ever been...
devastated in any
prior event
when that
occurred...
including my
birthday.
I didn't feel
devastated.
You said "disappointed."
I was disappointed --
Okay, so go
with that.
There.
A breakthrough.
[sighs]
♪curious tense
music♪
[unintelligible
whispering]
[whispering]
All right.
[sighs]
What do you see?
♪♪♪
[Woman] It's a bird
on a sign.
But the sign is broken.
I saw
a bird too,
um, but I saw
that it's an axe
trying to
cut it.
I see a
person...
over another
person.
That's interesting.
I see a bird.
Huh.
♪♪♪
[Orna] So we have
an hour together today.
Okay.
Let's see what
we can do.
-Okay.
-Okay?
So tell me.
Talk to me.
Why are you here?
What do you want
to work on?
We are polar
opposites.
But that...
in the beginning...
-was fantastic --
-Mm-hm.
because...
he calmed
my noise
and I woke
him up.
[laughs]
So it worked
out.
So --
He calmed
your noise
and you woke
him up.
Yes.
That's beautiful.
-So it was perfect.
-Uh-huh.
Um, fast-forward...
Mm-hm.
we -- we no longer speak
the same language.
Um...
He misunderstands...
me, and I...
totally...
misunderstand
him.
Wh-- which --
uh, in what way?
He'll placate me
most of the time
just so that...
he doesn't...
have to engage
in a conversation
because he
thinks...
I'm gonna
yell or scream
-or whatev--
-I think
you're gonna yell
and scream?
-Or --
-I'm an intense individual
and that's the way
I speak.
Okay.
-Uh --
-But it usually ends up
with you yelling
and screaming.
Maybe we should get into
a couple of examples.
A recent escalation
or --
or some, like,
uh --
an escalation that
felt like "Ugh,
there we go again.
This is us doing
that thing."
I sent him --
'cause I'm not
allowed to call him
while he's
at work,
so I text
him...
and I texted him,
and I said, um --
Now we're getting
into some --
Don't -- don't
say it like that.
And so --
'Cause if you're not
allowed to call
you break
that rule.
'Cause you call
all the time.
Give her the reason
why you say that.
Because you don't want
me calling you at work --
Why don't I want you
calling me at work?
Because work is very
important to you.
But why is it...
import--
Why is it...that
I...say to you?
You tell
her why.
You tell
her why.
Because --
She will call
-Mm-hm.
-Mm-hm.
-Alright?
-Mm.
And she expects
me to pick up
-20 times.
-Mm-hm.
And every
single time,
it's nothing
important.
And if I don't answer
that phone --
Well, I guess that
it's important
just in the sense of
establishing a connection.
We just spoke.
Mm-hm.
Well, people have
different needs for, like --
But I'm busy.
Yeah, yeah.
-Mm-hm.
-I-- It's not McDo--
I'm not working
at, like,
-Wendy's or something.
-Yeah, yeah.
Then when -- when
she finally gets me...
this is how she
greets me:
[angrily] "Where
were you?"
Mm-hm.
[angrily] "What
were you doing?"
I'm like, "Babe,
I'm at work."
[angrily] "Why didn't
you answer the phone?"
"All right,
you got me now.
What's the
emergency?"
[Orna] Mm-hm.
"Why didn't
you answer
when I called?"
"Because I was busy?
-Maybe?
-Mm-hm.
Give me the benefit
of the doubt.
I'm at work,
babe.
Is it possible that I could
have been busy?
I'm not ignoring
your calls."
What do you think about
what Desean's saying?
I think Desean's...
uh...
main thing in life
is work.
Mm-hm.
You know, it could
be 9:30
and he's on
his phone.
"What are you doing?"
"Work. Email."
Whatever.
What do you do,
Desean?
I'm an insurance
broker.
[Orna] Mm-hm.
You know...
I've worked in
places where...
CEOs answer the phone
for their wives.
I'm not a CEO,
so maybe when
I become a CEO,
-then you can start --
-My point is that...
there are people
who have...
bigger jobs...
who...
-tend to their wives --
-Mm-hm.
or their significant
other
or whatever
that is, but...
for me, he's
too busy.
We'll get up,
right?
Get ready
for work.
-I'm on the train.
-Mm-hm.
Get a text.
"You know,
I've been thinking
about something."
And this will --
this will carry on
until we're at work.
But she's not,
I don't know,
like, telling you
her dream.
She's -- she's talking
about something
-between the two --
-It could be that.
It could be
that.
It could be
just -- just --
It could be,
"You know --
-"I want to talk to you."
-I had this weird dre--"
I had this weird
dre--" Yeah.
Mm-hm.
And I'm like, "Babe,
can this wait
'til I get home?"
I get home
and n-- nothing.
'Cause I lost
interest.
And then,
I'm like --
I don't wanna talk
to you now.
"All of that
stuff
that you wanted
to lay on me
when I was
at work
-and I really couldn't --
-"Where is it?"
Where is it?
Now you
have me,
now I'm
engaged,
now I wanna...
engage in that,
but you don't want
to give it to me now --
But you're saying
because you're
already feeling...
hurt by then?
I feel like...
the -- the...
the thing to want
to share it died.
I think her idea of...
-partnership...
-Mm-hm.
is...
"Do as I say,
when I say,
how I say it.
I wanna make
her happy, but...
I've gotten to the point
where I'm just like,
"It's impossible
to make you happy."
♪grooving
funk music♪
♪speaking foreign
language♪
[unintelligible]
I know.
♪speaking foreign
language♪
[unintelligible chatter]
[Orna] Hi.
Hi.
Hello.
Hey.
Come in.
-Great.
-Great.
We've always talked
about wanting kids.
Yes.
Like, since our
third date
it was on
the table.
And then...
kind of over
the past few years,
it's been very
all-over-the-place
as to the timeline.
-And --
-For example?
It would be...
five years out...
like, a couple
years ago.
-Mm-hm.
-And then --
six months...
later...
Sarah would be like,
"I'm ready, I want --
-I want kids."
-Mm-hm.
And then it would...
change ag--
I mean...
it went back
and forth a lot.
Inner conflict.
-Sure.
-I don't know.
We're all wingin' it
out here.
Nobody knows.
[Orna] And that's,
for you...
confusing, maybe
crazy-making?
Very -- very
confusing.
[Orna] Mm-hm.
We had had a...
later timeline...
and it just
kind of, like...
got accelerated...
it felt like,
without my input.
So, what made you
wanna move faster...
and what made
you feel reluctant?
[Lauren] Mm-hm.
For me, that was...
still a time period
of intense...
instability.
Mm-hm.
I'm trans
and I began
my transition
-when I was 27.
-Mm-hm.
I think only over
the past year
I think I've
really...
come into
my...
-self, and --
-Mm-hm.
have felt...
stable...
within...
my personal
identity --
-Yeah.
-And...
wh-- where
I'm...
-at as a human.
-Mm-hm.
And so...
having a baby...
Could destabilize
that.
Would ch--
change --
Suddenly,
I'm a mom...
[Orna] Mm-hm.
And I had just...
like...
really become
a woman.
[Orna] Mm-hm.
And...
[gulps]
that was scary.
Yeah.
Having a baby
is, like...
the only
thing that
I have known
in my life
that I want...
-for sure.
-Mm-hm.
I know I want
a child,
I have known
my whole life.
And so when she
brought up all of these...
concerns...
I...
completely
froze...
and I just felt
completely devastated...
because it felt
like she was
taking this
away from me.
Mm-hm.
And...
I felt like her concerns
were valid...
but...
they weren't
important enough
to take away the one
thing that I want...
in this life.
And I knew -- I knew
that she wasn't saying
"No, we can't
have kids."
I knew that she
was saying "Wait"...
but her concerns
felt like...
concerns that you're
gonna have forever.
And if you keep
letting those concerns --
But if --
But -- but
in a way...
whatever the argument
you're making in your mind,
you could not --
because of the intensity
of your wish...
you could not hold
in mind Lauren's...
position as valid.
It just felt too
threatening to...
your attachment
to this...
potential baby.
Yeah, it didn't
feel valid.
Yeah, you couldn't
hold her as valid.
You said it
felt selfish.
It did feel
selfish
and I still think it
sounds selfish. [laughs]
I think that those
concerns are valid,
but it doesn't feel
valid enough to, like,
kick it down
the road...
further.
And so,
in that fight...
I mean it lasted
like three days.
-Mm-hm.
-Yeah, it was pretty brutal.
-And --
-Enh, look, this is --
this is the kind of thing
that's really difficult.
Yeah.
I mean, these
kind of different...
timelines
on something
so important...
that's a
difficult one.
-Yeah, it was pretty scary.
-Where are you?
[crying] Just feeling how
I was feeling that day.
[Orna] Which is...
like all is lost?
Like, so
heartbroken.
And, in
retrospect...
I realize, like,
I was slipping
into depression --
[Orna] Mm-hm.
and I was looking
for anything
to look
forward to.
Like the baby will
somehow save you
from the
depression.
And I know that's
such a cliché,
but yeah,
just planning.
-It's not a cliché.
-Just knowing
-that it's coming --
-Yeah.
just knowing that I have
to keep my sh*t together
so that I can be
there for somebody.
Yeah.
And I feel like
she was...
impeding my...
-healing.
-Mm-hm.
Felt like a huge
betrayal.
And I just
felt like...
if you're gonna stop me
from moving forward...
I don't know how
this can continue.
[sniffs] I want
some tissues.
There was a box
of tissues...
[softly] Uh-oh.
Oh, no.
I don't know
where it is.
Did you just
make it worse?
-Yeah.
-It's fine.
-Um...
-I'm sorry.
It's fine.
I don't care.
You just have
lots of it on you.
What have
you done?
-[laughs] [sniffles]
-It's better.
-Thank you.
-There.
How are you
feeling, Lauren,
about what Sarah
is saying?
I mean...
I...wasn't going
to just say "Yes."
I wasn't going
to just bring...
a child into
this world...
to fix this.
Right.
I'm not gonna...
bring a child in
to fix something.
Mm-hm.
♪fast acoustic
strumming♪
♪fingerpicking
intensifies♪
Hi, dear.
[kiss]
Good to see you.
Good to see you.
♪♪♪
[Orna] I couldn't
sleep last night.
Really overwhelming
sense of responsibility.
I'm wondering more
about the --
the state, your
emotional state,
your mental state...
as you feel
that way.
Maybe you
can elaborate.
I was thinking...
how much is
put on the...
notion of...
couple.
You know, and as a
couple's therapist,
I'm, like...
I believe in it.
I believe that,
ultimately,
it's a good thing
for most people.
-Mm-hm.
-Not for everyone,
but...
But I'm also kind
of aware of the...
limit of...
how much
it can deliver.
Another person
will never be
what you're
fantasizing
-them to be.
-Yeah.
The fantasy is
always gonna,
at some point,
exceed...
-what's there.
-Yeah.
[Orna] And then,
there's a fight.
♪soft
piano♪
And it's got nothin'
to do with how I feel
or how we are or --
or any --
it's like --
it's always about
what he has to do
and I'm...
so fed up.
God, I don't know
why you're yelling
and I don't
know why --
Because it is so
f*ck' frustrating.
I am never, ever,
ever, ever ...
-going to Austin --
-Okay, we got it.
No, we didn't,
'cause you won't
let me talk.
Oh my, God,
f*ck you.
You just said that I
have to follow you
down every
dark path
because I trust you
and I believe in you.
-And if I trust you --
-No, I didn't.
-Yes, you did!
-Mm-hm.
Am I to...
never...
do anything...
because I've said
no to you for this thing?
That's what
it feels like.
It's ridiculous.
♪soft
piano♪
[Orna] I feel like I have
a lot of power over them...
so that's
a little scary.
-Yeah.
-The amount of responsibility
I have there.
Our job is to...
deepen their
understanding of their...
-dilemma.
-Mm-hm.
And nothing more.
It's not about should
they work on it
or should they
separate.
You have no
opinion on that.
I...
just feel...
fed up and
frustrated
and that I --
I don't want to
do this anymore.
Mm-hm.
Deep down in
my heart, like,
maybe it was too
far gone already.
Mm-hm.
I know I'm supposed
to take...
responsibility
for
the things that
I'm doing wrong,
but, like,
it's her .
I just feel like
she's never happy.
Like, it's always
something with her.
That's your summary
in your mind
of -- of why...
you're done?
Because she will
never be happy?
In a nutshell,
yeah.
Where are you?
[voice wavering] So,
when he says to you...
that, oh,
it's really about
me not being
happy --
Mm-hm.
there's a reason
for it.
It's not because
I'm crazy.
Mm-hm.
It's because
there's a
foundation
of saying
one thing,
and then doing
another thing.
Mm-hm.
And that's...
in a nutshell,
how you are
with me.
I really don't
feel like he...
wants to try to change
or make things better...
and I feel like,
deep down,
he doesn't know
what he wants.
How much of this
kind of...
"maybe it's
time to...
separate,"
how much of that
is true for you?
Do you feel like you're
Yes.
Yes?
Yes.
Mm-hm.
And you?
Yeah.
Okay.
-Have a good night.
-Okay.
-Good night.
-Bye.
-Hi.
-Hi.
-Hi, welcome.
-How are you?
-Hi!
-Oh, hi!
Aw, how
beautiful!
Oh, this is, like,
the best surprise.
[laughter]
[Orna] I'm Orna.
Nice to meet you.
Evelyn.
-Evelyn.
-Yes.
-Alan.
-Alan.
-Pleasure.
-Hi.
Orna.
Come in,
have a seat.
So...
talk to me.
-Okay.
-[laughter]
When Alan and I
got together,
I feel like we
always had, like,
the same idea...
♪bluesy electric
guitar♪
♪My ears
wide open♪
♪Yeah, I
know you♪
♪You keep
on talkin'♪
♪You talk about
yourself♪
♪Sit
quietly♪
♪Let's talk about
me, me, me♪
♪Me, me,
me♪
♪Let's talk about
me, me, me♪
♪Me
♪
♪The world
is my bed♪
♪I'll lie in
your head♪
♪The kink in
your neck♪
♪And the pit
in your chest♪
♪I'm under
your skin♪
♪I'm makin'
you sweat♪
♪I'm getting
what's mine♪
♪Don't need
to be blessed♪
♪Let's talk about
me, me, me♪
♪Me, me,
me♪
♪Let's talk about
me, me, me♪
♪Me, me,
me♪
♪My eyes
are open♪
♪I see through
you♪
♪And all your
problems♪
♪I'm sick of
all your shh♪
♪It's long
overdue♪
♪Let's talk about
me, me, me♪
♪Me
♪
♪The world
is my bed♪
♪I'll lie in
your head♪
♪The kink in
your neck♪
♪And the pit
in your chest♪
♪I'm under
your skin♪
♪I'm makin'
you sweat♪
♪I'm getting
what's mine♪
♪Don't need
to be blessed♪
♪Let's talk about
me, me, me♪
♪Me, me,
me♪
♪Let's talk about
me, me, me♪
♪Me, me,
me♪
♪Me, me,
me♪
♪Me, me,
me♪
♪Me, me,
me♪
♪Me, me,
me♪
♪The world
is my bed♪
♪I'll lie in
your head♪
♪The kink in your
neck and the...♪
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