01x06 - Co-Signing Exes/Suspected Check Fraud

[bunniefuu]

-Did you start dating?

-Yes.

-He waved a g*n at you?

-Mm-hmm.

-He chased you with your children

-[scoffs]

-and stole all your property.

-Correct.

I've never been in trouble

until I met her.

[narrator]

This is Judy Justice.

[theme music playing]

Jessica Shaw is suing

her former boyfriend, Darryl Gorden,

for stolen property and DMV fees.

[Kevin]

All rise!

-Hello, Judge, we have case

-Have a seat, please.

1015, Shaw versus Gorden.

Thank you.

Miss Shaw, you want to tell me

how you met the Defendant?

So, I was on the city bus with my mother,

we were headed to Fremont Street

in Las Vegas,

and I made a statement that

Mr. Gorden was handsome,

and my mom went and

gave him my phone number.

-And when was that?

-This was in 2018.

Exactly when in 2018?

I want to say September.

What kind of work

were you doing at the time?

I'm a disabled single parent.

-So, you receive disability?

-[Jessica] Correct.

-And that's your only source of income?

-Correct.

And how long have you been

receiving disability?

-Since March of 2015.

-Who do you live with?

-I live with my two children.

-How old are they?

Eight and ten, now.

Do they get any form of disability

through you?

Yes, my daughter gets SSI now.

Your daughter gets SSI?

Mm-hmm, and my son is pending.

How much does your daughter

receive from SSI?

-Seven fourteen.

-[Judy] Okay. Now,

it was in September of 2018

that you met the Defendant.

-Correct.

-You were driving a city bus?

Yes, ma'am.

How long had you been

driving a city bus?

Two years and six months,

or seven months.

-And what do you do now?

-I work for UPS as a driver

and many other, you know, warehouse,

anything they need me to do.

J-J-Just-- That's the answer.

Now you work for UPS.

-Yes.

-How much after

your mother gave him your number

on the city bus did he call you?

Pretty much two days later.

And when did you see him?

The same day.

Did you start dating?

-I don't know what you wanna call it.

-That's accurate.

Did you start seeing each other

more frequently that just this one time?

-You went out? Yes.

-Yes.

How much after you

started to see each other

did you tell him, or ask him, if he

would co-sign for a car loan for you?

-I didn't ask. I--

-[Judy] You didn't?

No, he actually asked me

if I wanted him to co-sign.

[Judy and Darryl laugh]

-Ah, yeah, all right.

-[Judy] Miss Shaw, Miss Shaw,

you have to understand that

we have to have a consistent story.

That usually doesn't come up

in conversation

when you're dating someone,

when you're intimate with them.

"Hey, how about

I co-sign a car loan for you?"

is something that usually doesn't

come up in conversation

unless you're talking about,

"I need a car."

We were talking about it.

What happened was,

we were talking about my vehicle,

which the motor had blew--

Just a second. You must have told him

you needed a vehicle.

Right, but I didn't ask him to co-sign,

he offered to co-sign.

Miss Shaw, I have to tell you something,

you're starting off

on the wrong foot with me.

Because if you say, "I need a new car,

I'm gonna go out and get a new car,"

a normal reaction isn't,

"I'll co-sign it for you,"

it's, "Great, I'll go and

take a look at one with you.

If you want me to go shopping with you,

I'll go shopping with you

for it together."

But unless you say,

"I can't get a loan in my own name,"

Nobody just says,

"How about I co-sign a loan for you?"

Well, he knew in Vegas

I couldn't get a loan in my name--

Just a second. How did he know?!

Because I wasn't a Vegas resident and I--

Just a second! You mean,

this guy knows the law in Las Vegas,

that if you're not a Vegas resident,

you-- [laughing]

-you can't get a car in your name.

-[laughs]

I have to tell you something.

I'm a judge.

I've been a judge for almost 40 years.

I didn't know

that you had to be a resident

of a state where you buy a car--

I mean, I've lived in lots of places

and I'm a Florida resident,

and I've bought cars in New York,

and Connecticut and New Jersey.

Do you understand?

It doesn't make sense,

and if it doesn't make sense,

it's not true.

And if you want to start off

on a reasonable foot with me,

so far, you're not doing a good job of it.

-Do you understand?

-[Jessica] Mm-hmm.

-[Judy] Uh-huh is not an answer.

-Yes.

[Judy] Now, how much after

you met the Defendant did you tell him

that you couldn't get a car loan

in your own name

because you weren't a Vegas resident?

We immediately talked about it.

[Judy]

You immediately talked about it?

-[Jessica] Yes.

-[laughs] Fascinating!

So-- Just a second. That's great,

it's great for your team.

Don't shake your head. Sometimes, somebody

just takes that shovel and keeps digging.

-My car was--

-So, immediately upon meeting

this stranger who you got on a bus with,

with your mother,

and you said, "Gee, he looks handsome,

give him my number."

Immediately after you met, you said,

"The motor blew on my car,

[laughing] I need you

to co-sign for a loan."

Okay. Now, we're gonna move forward

because it's lunchtime

and I'm gonna speed this up a little bit.

He said he would sign a car loan for you

if you gave him $1,000.

-Correct.

-Okay. So, that would sound to me

that he really didn't trust you,

[laughing]

which, that was

the first smart thing you did.

-Yes, ma'am.

-[Judy] In any event,

he went, he signed for the car with you.

-Where are you living? In Los Angeles?

-I live in Texas.

[Judy] You live in Texas?

Are you still driving this

-what kind of car was it that you bought?

-A 2016 Dodge Caravan.

-[Judy] Are you still driving it?

-They're taking it September 15th.

-I filed bankruptcy.

-[laughs] So--

Is what you're telling me you

haven't been paying for the car?

I've been paying for it.

I'm up to date except for,

I owe three months right now.

I paid it all the way up--

Being up to date is not three months.

If you haven't made your car payment

in three months, you're not up to date.

-And ma'am, she was-- Yeah.

-[Judy] Shu-- Don--

Speak not!

All right, I'll shut up. [laughs]

So, you're not up to date

in your car payment,

you're still driving around in the car.

You filed for bankruptcy.

What do you think that means?

Do you think that that means

they're gonna come after his check

from UPS for the car?

'Cause he's the co-signer on the car.

Actually, I'm the co-signer.

He's the main buyer.

-Is the car in your name?

-Yes, ma'am.

[laughs] You're a real idiot!

-[Darryl] Yeah.

-Just a second.

-They're still gonna come after him.

-Correct.

And how much is left on the loan?

Fourteen thousand, I believe.

[Judy] Fourteen thousand dollars

is left on the loan.

So, what she has done

by filing for bankruptcy

is put you in a position where

you're gonna pay this $14,000

-that's left on the car.

-Yeah, and see, this--

-If you have a job,

-Yes.

and whatever lending institution it is,

is gonna know that as long as you work,

they're gonna take ten percent out of

your salary, or whatever they can take.

-Did you know that?

-[Darryl] No, ma'am.

-[Judy] Well, now you know it.

-I do.

-Okay. Next time, you'll

-I will definitely

-you'll think harder.

-[stammers]

[Judy] All right, so this is

what the case is about.

Now-- Now that I've gotten to know

the players in the case--

-Because I'm not finished with you.

-Yeah.

'Cause I'm not sure that

the method that you used

to try to collect your $1,000, which,

by the way, you never paid him.

-Correct?

-I couldn't pay him.

I don't care-- Coulda, woulda, shoulda!

My question was,

-you never paid him?

-[Jessica] No.

The answer is no, you never paid him.

[chuckles] And when he came to collect,

according to you,

he came to collect his $1,000,

'cause he had a bad feeling

that he wasn't gonna get

this $1,000 from you,

-he waved a g*n at you? Right?

-Yes.

-Lies.

-And he chased you,

-with your children? Right?

-Correct. Yes.

And according to you, he trespassed

in the hotel where you were staying,

although you didn't see it. He came back

to the hotel where you were staying

when you weren't home

and stole all your property?

-Yes.

-[Judy] And it is your claim

that all your property was worth $10,000.

-Cause that's what your claim is.

-Correct, but a lot of it was

because of the car I had forfeited

to get this car.

I coulda gotten a motor in that car fixed,

but he offered to co-sign on this vehicle.

-[laughs]

-[theme music playing]

You wanna show me

something that's different?

Is there anything different that he said

that's in--

-This is attempted burglary and larceny.

-[Judy] It's attempted burglary.

-That's what I'm saying.

-Don't answer her.

[narrator]

And later today

-The check looked legitimate to you?

-Yes.

[Judy]

You find out that the check is all a scam.

And I assume you don't have the letter

that came along with the check?

I have the letter, Your Honor,

that came with the check.

-Oh.

-I obtained it from her

to make sure it didn't get lost.

[audience laughs]

[theme music playing]

[narrator]

Jessica Shaw claims her ex-boyfriend,

Darryl Gorden, did not return her property

or pay for DMV fees.

Darryl is counter-suing

for breach of contract.

-Listen to me, sir.

-[Darryl] Yes, ma'am.

-You pled guilty to trespass.

-Yes, that was part of the plea deal.

And when you pled guilty to trespassing,

I assume it was in her motel.

-Yes.

-And when you pled guilty to trespass,

-there was a judge, like me--

-Is it-- Just a quick question.

Is trespassing, uh,

it's attempted burglary.

It gets knocked down to a trespass

after a year, a misdemeanor trespass.

Oh, so you pled guilty

to attempted burglary?

-Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am.

-Okay. So, you were charged with burglary?

-Attempted, yes.

-[Judy] No, you were charged

-with burglary.

-You're the judge, so yes. Yes.

-You know better than me.

-You were charged with burglary.

-[Darryl] Yes.

-You pled down to attempted burglary.

Ye-- Okay, yes.

Is there-- You want to

show me something that's different?

-[Jessica] No, this is a court document.

-Just a second.

Is there anything different that he said--

This is attempted burglary and larceny.

-It's attempted burglary.

-That's what I'm saying.

Don't answer her. When you pled guilty

to attempted burglary,

-you appeared before a judge, like me.

-Correct.

And the judge, what they call,

allocuted you,

they told you you had a right to have

a trial-- Stop playing with your papers.

They told you you had a right

to have a trial.

-Yes, ma'am.

-[Judy] And the judge told you

that you had a right at that trial to call

witnesses, cross examine those witnesses.

And by making this plea

of attempted burglary,

it was as if you went to trial, and you're

pleading guilty because you are guilty.

-That's what the judge has to say.

-Right.

And you said, "Yes, I did whatever I did,

I trespassed on her property.

-Yes.

-And they adjourned the case,

-I assume, for a probation report.

-Um, yes.

And when they adjourned the case

for your probation report, Mr. Gorden,

did it come back that

you had prior arrests?

-No.

-[Judy] This was the only time you--

I've never been in trouble

until I met her.

So, the judge said, "You've never

been in trouble before."

And this, and said, "It was

not between strangers, so,

I'm going to give you a break.

-If you keep your nose clean,

-Yeah.

don't get into any trouble for" I don't

know, how many years, two years?

-Yes.

-[Judy] Two years.

That after your probation is over,

the judge said

that the courts would knock the case down

to a misdemeanor and dismiss it?

-Yes.

-And when the judge finally rendered

the judge's decision on your sentence,

did the judge make an order

for restitution?

-Yes, she did.

-[Judy] And in what amount

did the judge fix for restitution?

It's $221.90, exact in restitution,

have already been paid.

And what was that for?

She wanted what she'd been asking for

and the judge said provide the receipts

of what you had in that Budget Suites,

so that's what she could--

I don't even think you showed up, but--

-[Judy] Just a second. Just a second.

-Sorry.

-But you paid the restitution.

-[Darryl] I paid--

Would you show me, please, Kevin,

-the restitution?

-Here you go, sir.

[Kevin clears throat]

You have it in sight?

-Well, it's--

-Shh, say nothing.

-[Darryl] Yeah.

-I'm looking.

Mr. Gorden, in addition to the $221,

by the way, you received that

from the court?

-Yes, ma'am.

-[Judy] You retained a lawyer?

-Yes.

-Just for my own curiosity,

how much did you pay the lawyer?

-Ten thousand dollars, ma'am.

-Where'd you get the money from?

My mom had to actually take money

out of her 401k.

She took $10k out.

And how much later

did the court send you the $221?

Last month, I believe, mm-hmm.

And when the court ordered $221,

that was because you couldn't

provide receipts for any more?

No, ma'am. The reason

they didn't do that is because

I didn't show up at the court date

because they were supposed to

do a video conference

and I never got the link.

Okay. Well, that's too bad.

In any event, your lawsuit today

seeks from the Defendant $10,000, and--

Because you say

he took a lot of other stuff from you,

and DMV fees, and

return value of property and emotional

distress and all that other stuff.

Do you know how much meeting you

on that bus has cost him, so far?

Do you have any idea how much

meeting you has cost him?

-So far, $24,000. [scoffs]

-Yeah.

Ten thousand dollars for a lawyer,

$14,000 for a car.

You got the car, you declared bankruptcy,

and therefore,

they're gonna take back the car,

which you're still driving.

They're not taking it back 'til September,

so that you can have

a nice summer with the car.

Miss Shaw, from this court,

you are getting nothing.

Zip-a-dee-doo-dah. Nothing!

He's gonna be out $14,000,

-because of you!

-But the reason I--

So, your case is dismissed.

We are done here.

[Kevin]

Court adjourned.

[theme music playing]

Well, Judge Judy is a excellent judge,

so I grew up actually watching her,

which is why I knew to keep my mouth shut

when she asked me the first time.

He chased me down, uh, the highway

to try and get the vehicle back.

The girl is delusional, clearly.

She's a scam artist.

Before I was able to pay the $1,000,

he had already robbed me.

She outsmarted me.

She's a liar, manipulator.

I went to Walmart and he robbed me

while I was at Walmart.

That's all I can really say about her,

nothing really good to say about her.

I'm done with dating.

I-I'm good with my kids.

If you run into this chick, man,

run fast, she's skilled.

-He was really out of his league.

-How so?

Well, first of all, she was probably

about ten years older than he was,

and clearly, she knows

how to work the system.

And he's a kid who clearly had

never been in trouble before

and clearly, getting him to co-sign,

or even primarily sign for this car loan,

she had it in her mind all the time,

she just needed a target.

And I guess, the lesson

from this case is, never

co-sign a loan for anyone.

This poor guy didn't even know

that he was gonna be responsible.

One day, six months from now,

he's gonna get his paycheck

from UPS and it's gonna be shy $100,

and it's gonna go to pay off that car.

And the short amount of pleasure

that he had from this woman,

[laughing] if at all,

he's gonna live with until he's 50!

Case #1008, Demers versus Lacroix.

Please step forward.

[narrator]

Gary Demers is suing his former friend,

Laura Lacroix, for losses resulting

from a fraudulent check scam.

Mr. Demers, what kind of work do you do?

Right now, I'm in between jobs

'cause I'm having some health issues

taken care of.

What was the last full time job

that you had?

I was a manager of a warehouse

that supplied all the postal offices

from Canada to New Jersey.

And when did that job terminate?

-January 29th.

-Of this year?

-Yes.

-And how have you been

supporting yourself since January?

I did a lot of smart money saving

during COVID and I had a lot of hours.

And I also got-- Uh, unemployment

is kind of ridiculous right now.

[Gary and Judy laugh]

I have to tell you that

that's an honest answer.

-Yes.

-[Judy] Yes, so just for my own curiosity,

when you say unemployment

is kind of ridiculous right now,

those are your words,

tell me how ridiculous.

-As far as what I'm bringing home a week?

-Yeah.

-Nine eighty-three.

-So, you bring home

-almost $1,000 a week.

-Right.

-For not working.

-Exactly.

And tell me how much you were making

when you worked.

About $983. [laughs]

Almost $1,000 a week.

-Is that right?

-[Gary] Yes.

During COVID, a lot of overtime,

nobody wanted to work.

I had 18 days off the entire year,

counting Saturdays, Sundays and holidays.

-I worked all through the year.

-[exhales]

Did you understand this letter?

-Not really, no.

-[Judy] So you got a check

from these unknown people and

it looked legitimate to you.

-Yeah.

-[Judy] I really have to tell you

that my eight-year-old granddaughter

could tell that this was a fake letter.

[theme music playing]

[narrator]

Gary Demers says he was scammed

by his friend, Laura Lacroix,

for depositing a fraudulent check.

This is what this case is about.

The Defendant was a friend of yours?

-Acquaintance, yes.

-How long have you know her?

-Thirty years, about.

-[audience laughs]

Tell me at what point she asked you

to cash a check for her.

April 11th, she approached me

with a large check.

Okay. She approached you by phone,

she came to your house?

-Where did it happen?

-She texted me.

-Texted you?

-[Gary] Yes.

-Do you have that text?

-No.

-Is it on your phone?

-It could be.

Would you take a look?

I usually have to hold it

far away from me.

Yeah, for eyes, that's towards the end.

-[audience laughs]

-[chuckles] Really?

[chuckles] I have a contact lens in.

Oh. [laughing] I know he didn't mean

the way it sounded.

[all laughing]

I guess it wasn't a text.

On the text, it picks up where

I told her that I went to

get the check for her.

Okay. Can I see it, please, Kevin?

I went to Park Square with all the money.

[Judy] Okay.

"I was coming from Harmony.

Brother's house.

"Twelve-fifty to the landlord, correct?"

Is that your rent?

-Is that the amount of your rent?

-Twelve-fifty, yes.

"Twelve-fifty to landlord, correct.

Thousand to you, $600 to me.

Okay. So

-Based upon what I'm seeing, Miss Lacroix,

-Mm-hmm.

-[Judy] you had a check.

-Yes.

And you allegedly got that check,

you thought, from somebody

that you had done some work for online,

or canvassing on your phone, or something.

Somebody sent you a check,

for how much?

Twenty-eight fifty.

And you had no bank account

and, I gather,

at least according to the Plaintiff,

you were somewhat behind on your rent.

And you asked Mr. Demers

to cash the check for you.

Based upon the texts that he has,

this was your arrangement.

He was going to take that check

for $2,850,

he was going to pay your rent of $1,250.

Then he was going to keep $1,000 himself

and give you $600 in cash.

-Mm-hmm.

-[Judy] So actually, from the $2,850,

you got $1,850 and he got $1,000.

That was the arrangement.

-Am I correct? Okay.

-Correct.

-The check looked legitimate to you?

-Yes.

You went ahead, you cashed the check

at your bank,

couple of days later you find out

that the check is all a scam.

It was a scam, yes.

And since you have no evidence

in front of you, Miss Lacroix,

I assume you don't have the letter

that came along with the check.

-I have the letter, Your Honor,

-He has it.

that came with the check.

I made sure I obtained it

from her to make sure it didn't get lost.

-[audience laughs]

-[Judy] Okay, I'd like to see it.

Did you understand this letter

when you got it?

-Not really, no.

-You didn't understand this letter.

-So, you got a check

-Mm-hmm.

from these unknown people

and it looked legitimate to you.

-Yeah.

-He cashed it for you.

I mean, I really have to tell you that

my eight-year-old granddaughter

could tell that this was a fake letter.

-Mm-hmm.

-He's out, so far, $2,800.

You benefited from this scam

because your landlord got paid

a month's rent, correct?

-As far as I'm concerned,

-[Judy] Yes.

-He didn't pay my rent.

-Your landlord got paid,

that was the deal.

Your landlord got paid a month's rent.

-We both got the same landlord.

-[Judy] I don't care.

That was your deal with him.

Did you pay the landlord out of--?

-Yes, I have the Venmo here.

-[Judy] I'd like to see it.

Sarah, take a look up these people.

Okay.

When you cashed the check,

you paid the landlord.

Did you also give her $600 in cash?

-Yes, I did. I have that document.

-Just a second.

-You, in effect, gave her $1,850.

-Correct.

And you kept $1,000 for yourself.

Right, because she had owed me money

from the past.

-That was the agreement.

-I don't care.

-But you took $1,000.

-Yes, I kept $1,000. Yes, I did.

You took $1,000 and spent it.

No, it's probably still in the bank,

but yes, I have it.

Okay, so, really, the benefit

that she got from this check

-was $1,850.

-[Gary] Correct.

-[Judy] And you got $1,000.

-Yes.

Okay. So, what you're

asking for is $1,850.

Right, because I don't know

if it's right to--

Even though they took the $1,000

out that I took,

that was given to me, I don't know if

that's counted as lost money now.

-What you would count it as.

-[Judy laughs]

But you spent the $1,000.

I had it in my hand for two days, so

Did the bank take back the entire $2,800?

-Yes. That's right here.

-[Judy] I'd like to see it.

Um I put in my savings.

It came out of my checking.

The Better Business Bureau

has warned about this scam

involving wrapping your vehicle

in advertising. It's a scam.

Thank you.

Your lawsuit is requesting $1,870.

And what did they charge you? Did they--

Yes, the $20 is on there,

yellowed out also, for you.

-[Judy] For a bad check. Okay.

-Yes.

That's what your lawsuit's requesting,

you're absolutely entitled to it.

Judgment for the Plaintiff

in the amount of $1,870.

-Thank you.

-Thank you.

[Kevin]

Court's adjourned.

[theme music playing]

I thought it was, um, more than fair.

As far as I'm concerned, I got paid $600,

if nothing else.

Because this was a legitimate bank check

from Suncoast.

As far as I'm concerned, I seen the check,

I showed Gary, Gary showed the bank.

We all thought it was real.

I didn't bother finishin' readin' it.

Well, I wasn't happy.

Go to Gary,

'cause he'd probably cash 'em again.

I will deposit it and

we'll wait for it to clear. [laughs]

So, what advice could you give

an ordinary person

for being able to tell if something

they get in the mail is a scam--

You know, life usually teaches you

if something is too good to be true,

-it's usually not true. [laughs]

-Yeah.

And I'm not so sure that

the Plaintiff in that case

didn't have some kind of clue that

this check was not a good one.

I'm not certain. But he was otherwise

very truthful with me. [laughs]

So, that's his flip side.

I think that the lesson that's taken

from that case is,

if it's too good to be true,

it's usually not true.

[theme music playing]

[narrator]

Are you a victim of a scam?