01x03 - Truth and Distortion

[bunniefuu]

My heart's pounding like crazy.

Take your time through it.

Jodi was just kind of

this weird aunt that I had.

And she wasn't really anything

in my life in any sort of real way

until I was forced to live with her.

That was the splitting of my life.

The way I find out is,

my cousin texts me and was like, hey,

how are you doing

after the Jodi thing,

and I'm like, what do you mean?

Like What Jodi thing?

Ruby Franke and business

partner, Jodi Hildenbrandt,

arrested for child abuse.

I had not seen

Jodi's face, seen her name,

heard her voice in a long time.

I definitely didn't know

anything about Ruby.

But the things that I have seen,

it's so familiar to me.

It's the same.

Rube Franke's youngest son

escaped through a window

from this Ivins' house.

It's where investigators found rope,

bindings and other items

used to t*rture

the boy and his sibling.

It didn't surprise me at all.

Like, it makes perfect sense

why and how this happened.

Jodi's methods are very subtle.

It's like this metaphor

of a frog being boiled.

You don't just throw a frog

in a pot of boiling water,

you just slowly turn up

the temperature until they die.

She gains your trust, and little

by little, she rips you apart.

That's how Jodi works.

I grew up primarily in California.

I was born in San Jose, and then

when I was about seven or eight,

we moved to southern California.

Growing up, my dad

was more of the silent, stoic type.

Very patriarchal,

dad has the last say.

Dad is the disciplinary.

Mom was the caretaker

and the nurturer.

But if you didn't fall into

what they deemed as appropriate,

you were on the outs.

I've always been like,

the weird art kid.

Didn't wear the right thing,

I didn't say the right thing.

I have memories of me singing

all of the Shania Twain songs

and dancing on the coffee table

and putting lipstick on

and singing into the mirror,

but in my family,

you had to be very levelheaded,

you had to speak about emotions

as if it were the weather.

And that was just not me.

And that definitely created

a void in me as a little kid,

and I definitely acted out a lot,

wanting that attention,

wanting that care and that love,

anyway that I knew how to get it.

I started experimenting sexually

with friends at a very young age,

with making out at sleepovers,

but I had this internalized

belief in the church

that being g*y was evil.

And so, I truly thought

I was going to hell,

as an 8-year-old, for kissing girls.

Acts of h*m*

are evil and absolutely wrong.

If you are born g*y and you happen

to also be born Mormon,

you are facing an extremely

difficult internal conflict.

You have this sexual

identity that is not fitting

within the construct

of the Mormon Church.

So, you learn how to really

see yourself as broken,

see yourself as damaged,

see yourself as less than.

Second or third grade,

I think I was being punished

for getting caught experimenting,

so I came home from school,

and everything that I owned was gone.

My room was empty

except for a mattress on the floor.

And then I was given

a list of my items

that I could earn back

one at a time from acting right.

Restitution is a very key part

in this process

of being able to move through

and eradicate or flush out

the inappropriateness

of what was it that I did.

My mom was being told by Jodi

this was an okay thing to do.

And Jodi is a professional

and her sister-in-law.

Why would she not trust her?

God said marriage is between

a man and a woman, period. The end.

And when that boundary was removed,

it opened the door

for all sexual perversion.

As time continued, as I get older,

there was this like,

feeling of being invisible.

And my dad wouldn't acknowledge me,

wouldn't look at me,

he was speaking

through my mother to talk to me.

Even to the point

where we're at the dinner table,

and he would be like, Michelle,

tell Jessica to pass

the salad dressing.

And I would just sit there,

not allowed to be upset,

just like fuming,

like I'm right here.

School was such

a refuge for me. I loved it.

I started coming

into my own in terms of like,

my style and then

finding like, cool music.

I would bring my makeup,

do my makeup

and then wash it off

before I would go home.

They would see that and be like,

oh, they're doing drugs.

And like, literally I was like,

giving out book of Mormons at school.

But I was angry,

so anger plus appearance

must mean

I'm doing very sinful things.

And at that time,

all of the emotional distress

had escalated quite exponentially.

I had started running away

and I think my mom

truly didn't know what to do.

We drove to Utah

for my grandparents

60th wedding anniversary.

There was this big party,

and it was very sweet,

and I didn't really eat anything,

and yet I was tasked

with doing dishes, which

so unfair to a, you know, a teenager.

It was classic how dare

your parents ask you to do a chore.

I was really mad at my mom,

told her I hated her,

went down into the basement,

locked myself in the basement.

I fell asleep, woke up

to a knock on the door,

and it was my grandparents and Jodi

there to inform me

that my family had gone,

they had left,

and I wasn't going with them.

You know, in movies, that effect

when you're zooming in

and pulling out at the same time and

it creates this warping background,

foreground kind of sensation?

Oh, my God, everything

is wrong, nothing is right,

what is up, what is down,

what do you mean?

That is what it felt like.

That moment

of refusing to do the dishes

has haunted me every day.

If I had just done the dishes,

none of this would have happened.

I know that Jodi

was systematically breaking me down

because in one

of my meetings with my bishop,

that's exactly what they told me.

They compared me to a horse

that needed to be broken

so that I could then be rebuilt.

In the beginning, I was like,

okay, this sucks, but I'm all in.

I was compliant

and I wasn't acting out.

To Jodi, that meant

that I was manipulating and lying.

There is truth and there are lies.

And so, a person is constantly

in the middle choosing,

having their free agency, choosing

which direction they're going to go.

Punishments and life

became very quickly unbearable.

A very intentional, methodical

deconstruction of self is the goal.

All sources of identity

were ripped from me.

I wasn't allowed to play piano,

I wasn't allowed to sing,

be on the internet.

I wasn't allowed to read at all.

I wasn't allowed to talk to friends,

I was not allowed

to speak to my parents

except for on speaker

with my grandparents, Jodi,

maybe a bishop, I was fully isolated.

It is our obligation to repent

so that we can receive

all the blessings of the atonement,

and one day receive eternal life

with God and our Father.

Jodi would take me to work with her.

She would put me in this closet

and would lock me in that room

for up to like, 12 hours a day.

She would give me assignments like,

writing out all of my sins.

So, 16-year-old me just sitting

there like, trying to think of,

oh, what have I done,

like, I've never had sex,

I've never done drugs,

I told her about like

thinking I was g*y,

and I told her everything.

Then she would come in and make me

get on my hands and knees

and read the sins back to me

and make me beg for forgiveness.

In her own words, she wanted

to make my life so miserable

that it would force the sin out

because, in her belief,

if you are honest

and confessing your sins,

then you should be getting better,

and I was getting worse.

So that was proof to her

that there was still more sin

that I hadn't confessed to.

And she would say this

in this very like, condescending,

contemptuous it leads us like,

there's darkness in you.

That thankfully,

I'm here to save you.

At Church, I was not allowed

to speak to anyone.

And at Jodi's, I always had

to wear duct tape on my mouth

because, according to her, every word

that came out of my mouth was a lie.

I was so dissociated.

Not knowing

that's what was happening.

But then my dissociation

was also used against me,

like I remember

my grandmother being like,

what's wrong with them,

it's like no one's there.

And then Jodi would be like,

yeah, there's not.

This is what shame does,

this is what Satan does.

I would just be sitting there like,

hovering above my body.

I believed it. Thought I deserved it.

I thought that this was

God's way of punishing me.

I didn't know what was happening.

I didn't know why it was happening.

I thought it was weak.

I thought it was evil.

I had no one to turn to,

no one I could trust.

This is January, February.

This was February

because my birthday came.

Not a word was said to me.

And at the end of the day, Jodi

was like, I know it's your birthday.

How did that feel

for no one to acknowledge it?

So it was just like that constantly.

In like November or December,

Jodi went on a cruise.

And so I was left

at my grandparents' house,

and this was the first time

I've been out of her grasp.

And I went and saw

my cousins that lived in the area.

My cousin, she's my age, and she

asked if I want to go on Facebook.

And I was like, I don't know.

I don't think I should.

But I didn't have access to it.

I just wanted to see what my profile

looked like, and I was terrified.

And my cousin was like, what if I

go on for you and you can just look?

And I was like, sweet, cool loophole.

And I realized

my digital footprint was just erased.

So many memories just gone.

Growing up in high-demand religion

there's this need to confess.

Faith, divine nature,

individual worth,

knowledge, choice,

and accountability.

I was so wracked with guilt and shame

that I'd done something so deceitful

and so maniacal

and evil and vicious

for looking at Facebook.

And no one knew besides me

and my cousin that this happened.

But I told Jodi.

It was very much this like,

how dare you?

The first time that you get freedom

and this is what you do,

you just go behind

my back. You just lie.

You manipulated my cousin.

This is what you do. You're

so full of evil, you're so dark.

She was acting like I had m*rder*d

someone, and I believed it.

And that's what the shame

that I felt was as if I did it again.

I did the thing

I don't even know that I'm doing.

Looking back, why did I do that?

Because Jodi

would not have found out.

I do think that Jodi

is a very sick person,

and that something happened.

I don't know what

and I don't know if it's a singular

event or if multiple things happened

that led her to who she is.

Whatever happened in her life caused

her pain, anguish, and hurt,

and that in no way justifies

the behavior that she has,

but hurt people hurt people.

The early part of the equation,

I think it goes back

to her family culture.

It was extremely rigid.

She says this in her book,

that her father was a Colonel in the

Air Force, very emotionally limited.

She says that her mother

wasn't very maternal.

My parents were both

emotionally shut down.

I didn't know that

as a child, but now I do.

And so I learned

how to be really nice,

I learned how to be kind,

helpful, gracious, and good.

To be female within the church,

your primary role

is to be a wife and a mother.

Jodi failed at both of those.

She was divorced, and I know that

her daughter has made it very clear

that she wants absolutely nothing

to do with her mother.

I'm okay with my child

being angry with me.

Even to the point

of them leaving my life.

Within the context of the church,

it is considered a moral failing.

And yet she was the point person

that the church sent people to

for marriage advice

and parenting advice.

She is so good at spinning things.

She's like, no, no, no no,

because of my divorce,

that makes me more qualified.

I think some of Jodi's

destructiveness towards Jessi

was a function of her self-hatred.

I remember as a teenager

and young adult

feeling so overwhelmed with pain

that said you don't matter,

you're not enough,

you don't do it right,

you make people upset,

you're the reason why people

are having pain in their life.

My grandmother talked about Jodi

and her having these

special friendships with other girls.

Growing up in a culture that doesn't

particularly accept h*m*

is certainly potentially a problem.

If that's how she feels, she can't

express that part of herself.

So, she has to repress it.

I am not g*y.

I am not dumb, I am not stupid,

I am not ugly, I am not fat,

I'm not all those things.

Because I am divine.

This is someone who potentially

is going to find a way

to project that self-hatred

into the world.

And one of the ways you can do that

is you destroy relationships.

She's so rigid, she's so rigid

in her beliefs and her world views.

She, from how I understand it,

has always been

a very difficult person to deal with,

and it's really tough

because how many times

have women been called that?

The patriarchy's going to tell you

to stay small, stay silent,

that you're too much, that you're

too big, that you're too loud,

and I think she

used that to rationalize

and justify the abuse

that she engaged with.

I know, from what I've been told,

Jodi accused her ex-husband

of horrendous things.

Tried to get him ex-communicated.

Nearly destroyed this man.

Do you feel like,

while you were living with her,

she was formulating

Connexions dogma?

I would say that

when I was living with Jodi,

things were very much

in the trial-and-error phase.

I think with Ruby's children,

and these men,

it was much more,

I have this playbook,

I have a very defined route

that I'm going to take.

Deconstruction of self

and sense of self.

The deconstruction

of sense of reality.

That's what she required that you

give your entire self over to her.

If you just submit,

everything will be okay.

Stoking this belief that everything

that is happening is in your control,

your fault, and you deserve it.

Folks, I don't know what to do.

Like, I want to see.

You realize I have

a picture of my family on my wall,

and I look at it every day.

And I work. I work! Everyday.

So I can get back

to my family and save my family.

Everything you're sharing to me

just sounds like a made up story.

Like, I

I have no idea

what you're talking about.

Like

It sounds like a horror movie.

Jodi broke Kevin Franke.

He believed that he was

an awful human being

and didn't deserve

to be around his family.

People will say,

"oh, what a coward."

How could he not do this,

and I'm going, hold on a second.

I saw this woman.

I've seen the destruction

she's caused.

There was an individual

in my group that hadn't seen his kids

in six to eight months.

And he kept on having to add on time,

and I didn't quite understand why.

And I'm thinking this guy, is he

going to like, a massage parlor?

Is this guy a true sex addict? No.

It's because he did a double-take.

What's a double-take?

He saw an attractive woman,

he saw once,

but then he looked again.

And he had to call his wife and

let her know that he had done this,

and that would add on time,

to not see his kids and to stay

in whatever apartment he was in.

I have a buddy

that had to live in his car.

Couldn't see his brand new baby.

With Jodi, forgiveness

was not in the picture whatsoever.

I want just want to be very clear

that this woman is so far

from what I believe in

with the church and my faith.

She just was an opportunist

that kind of saw that there was

this opportunity by using shame.

There has been kind of a conflation

between the LDS church

and Jodi Hildebrandt's teachings,

but they're very much distinct,

and she radicalized them

in order to attract victims

and make her appear LDS friendly

where in fact she was

extremely contrary

to the teachings of Jesus Christ

and the LDS Church.

In May of 2016, after I refused

to follow Jodi's teachings,

my wife said,

"Hey, I'm separating from you."

And she then dictated all the time

I could have with my daughter.

And then it was Labor Day,

and my family invited me

to spend some time with them.

So my wife learned of that

and she said, if you do that,

that's a*usive, it's a*usive

to spend time with your family.

And that was clearly

according to Jodi.

But then she said, if you stay home,

I'll let you see our daughter.

So, I decided to stay home,

but then even after that,

my wife still didn't let me

see our daughter.

At that point I just,

I felt like I was going insane.

Let's talk about boundaries.

Boundaries.

So when you're following

Jodi, what happens is,

this individual has a family,

you know, mom, dad, brothers,

sisters, friends, whatever,

they're slowly being taught that

these people are not living in truth,

and you need to separate

yourself from them.

Someone said to me just today,

Jodi, I'm ready

to end a 25-year marriage,

what do I do?

If you have been practicing

for months and months

of being in truth, and this person

refuses, refuses, refuses, refuses

what they're saying

is I'm unwilling to humble

and I will not look at myself.

If that is the case,

you may decide to say, I'm done.

I started my own practice in 2002

and so I've worked with couples

long enough to know

that there are

two sides to every story.

There is the possibility

that some really troubling things

are going on in these marriages,

and the women have legitimate

reasons to ask for separations.

But the problem is Jodi's method.

In the hands of Jodi Hildebrandt,

those marriages that were already

vulnerable just imploded.

Shortly after the separation,

my wife said, I will divorce you

unless you see another counselor

and he was

a domestic violence counselor.

I had to say that

I was a*usive to my wife,

and I was a*usive to our daughter

even though

it was just patently false.

And that was clearly an attempt

from what I saw for her

to then try to use that

against me for a custody dispute.

It was very methodical, you know,

it's either, you don't see your kid

'cause you're not admitting to this

abuse, or you do admit to the abuse,

falsely, and then they use that

to take your kid away

in custody proceedings.

It's very deliberate and planned,

from what I saw.

People are engaging

in lascivious, and rude,

and destructive, and violent,

and aggressive, and entitled,

and selfish behaviors,

and they don't have truth.

At that point, I was fed up

with everything else going on,

and so I told my wife,

I'm done living in fear of you

disallowing me from seeing

our daughter. She needs me.

I'm her father, and you don't

have a moral right to do this,

you don't have

a legal right to do this.

That's when I decided

to file for divorce.

It just came to the point

where I had to do it.

I have a buddy living in Utah,

and this area

is very predominantly LDS.

Just within his neighborhood

there were five divorces.

And all of them were seeing Jodi.

How many couples

do you think she is responsible

for the divorce of

or accelerating the divorce process?

If my math is correct, I think we're

in the, well over the hundreds.

We might even be in the thousands.

Once I refused to go to Jodi, things

started getting out of control,

and she ratcheted up her plan

to take my own family away from me.

So, question, what do you do

if you're already

in an established relationship

and you have emotional unsafety?

So, as you start healing yourself

you're going to need to learn

how to set boundaries

and hold boundaries for yourself

Jodi teaches people

to use abstract language

like, his addiction,

he crosses boundaries.

How did he cross boundaries?

She doesn't answer

any of the specific questions, but

she was good at organizing language

to create a form of control.

Let's suppose my partner

or my spouse has violated my safety

and has been looking

at p*rn*graphy online.

If I continue to set boundaries,

and this person's

not willing to honor them,

chances are I won't be able

to stay in the relationship.

One time, my wife

comes home and she asked me

to get our 1-year-old

daughter from the bathtub.

And then out of nowhere,

this is the time

where it's totally prohibited by Jodi

for us to be intimate or anything.

Couldn't talk together, couldn't

sleep together, could nothing.

She walks

into the bathroom in lingerie.

She starts teasing me in the doorway.

I was just like, wow.

You know, so I was like,

here get the baby out of the tub,

and she takes the baby out, and then

she comes back in the bathroom,

and she looked at my private parts,

and then she looked at me in disgust

like, I was horrible,

and just walked off.

Eventually, she left

and took the children with her.

Your job is to protect your young.

If there was a lion coming

after your young,

you would stand in between,

and you put the baby behind you,

and you would defend that child

with everything you have.

Well, that's what's coming at you.

It is worse than the lion.

It is here to snuff out the life

of your child and k*ll her.

Spiritually.

As soon as Adam's ex left,

everything was, Adam,

I will only come back to you

if you return to Jodi.

When my wife

ran away with the kids,

I was so worried about her,

and I was worried about them,

and I was trying

to get information out of Jodi

to find out where they were

to see if they were safe.

And so, I went

to Jodi's office I said to Jodi,

hey, there's been a huge confusion.

My ex is acting

like she's scared of me.

And Jodi started acting like

she should be scared of me,

and I confided, I said

I was a victim of sexual abuse.

I've had fears that people

would think I'd be like that,

and insecurity, but that

doesn't mean I'm like that.

She was just like, Adam,

it does mean you're like that.

That's just your addiction in your

head working, and it's changing.

And in my head I was like,

this lady's ---- nuts.

She's absolutely dangerous.

When I become addicted

or I have an addiction

to some type of external, I become

a masterful manipulator slash liar.

I had written a letter

to my ex-wife's parents

about what Jodi was doing,

which was shared with Jodi.

And I think that's what broke it.

Jodi got that letter in her head,

she's just like,

this guy is not safe.

Eventually, Adam talked to the police

and said I don't know what to do,

I haven't seen my kids for weeks,

and they said

file a parental kidnapping report.

But he first wrote his wife an email

saying I'm gonna file this,

and I believe immediately

she contacted Jodi

and said he's gonna do this,

so I'm going to follow your advice

and file a protective order,

and I'm filing for divorce

at the same time.

In the protective order,

she said in there that Adam

was giving our baby girl a bath,

and he had to yell for me

to get the baby out of the bath,

and when I went in there,

he had an erection

and he was trying

to hide it from me.

I couldn't believe it.

It was a total mind ----.

Literally,

that Jodi was trying to create.

Everything

that's nasty in this world,

is coming from a place of distortion.

This idea of the addiction mindset

is also completely aligned

with Jodi's idea of distortion.

And an addiction mindset is

essentially sin because apparently,

we are all born

with an addiction mindset,

and so we're all flawed,

we're all sinners.

And I think a lot of Jodi's

system of thought

is based on the idea

of expunging or exercising that sin.

Does anybody that's hearing me

and you are caught in an addiction,

it is absolutely imperative

that you go through

a very thorough process of repenting.

Of course, it turns out that Jodi

is the one who's gonna help you

understand the way

to get through your distortions.

Repentance is the way

to Jodi's truth.

You either live in truth, or you

default into distortion; that's it.

There's nothing else.

And at this point, for Adam,

it was just getting worse and worse.

Adam's wife now wanted

custody of the children,

and we found ourselves in and out

of court fighting for the children,

and then at one of these hearings,

all of a sudden, this shows up.

This thing right here

has caused more damage

than you can ever imagine.

Dr. Brownsmith

is a very well-known psychiatrist,

and during the trial

against the Boy Scouts of America,

she did this extensive

evaluation on Adam.

The psych evaluation,

they were asking me

all about the sexual abuse

that happened to me as a kid.

Adam's ex's attorney,

they subpoenaed it

to build a custody case against Adam.

I felt like they took the words

out of that psych evaluation

and turned everything on its head.

There were words

in it like, me saying

I felt scared

when children came around,

in a very specific reference

talking about other parents

afraid of this whole stigma

that people that are abused

will also abuse,

that's a cycle of abuse.

That's not fair one bit.

They were saying, well, look,

he's mentally and immorally bankrupt.

He's been abused.

And so, she should have the custody.

This was protected

by a ceiling order,

but also protected

extensively by HIPPA.

And the judge immediately

just said it can't be used.

Around the same time,

the judge made that decision,

Adam's ex distributed

this like you would a newspaper.

She gave it to Jodi Hildebrandt,

and then she gave it

to Mormon Church leaders,

she also gave it

to Brigham Young University

where Adam went to school.

Then it shows up

at the children's daycare in Provo.

Was Jodi Hildebrandt instructing

Adam's ex-wife to distribute this?

Well, that seems

to make sense, I believe.

They did this to try

to destroy Adam's life

and take the kids away from him.

Jodi wanted to get him

kicked out of BYU,

get him kicked out

of the housing, get his job,

take his rights with his kids, she

just literally wanted to ruin him.

Right after the BYU

Honor Code Office got this,

Jodi Hildebrandt called them

with Adam's ex on the phone with her

and diagnosed Adam

as a narcissist, dangerous predator.

Because of what

Jodi was telling them,

the BYU Honor Code Office

kicked me out of the university.

What's so wrong is that Jodi was a

licensed mental health professional,

and licensed

professionals cannot do that.

There are ethical guidelines that we

agree to when we get that license.

And so she cannot talk

to anyone about a client

without the client's explicit

signed permission.

What Jodi Hildebrandt did

in talking with the university

is completely unethical.

If you have a complaint

and you call up DOPL and say,

this therapist

was practicing unethically,

the board is going to have

a hearing to bring them in

and have them potentially

and professionally disciplined.

And that's when my dad

put this great case together

and took it to the department

of professional licensing.

The Hildebrandt phone call

to BYU with Adam's ex on it,

was the key thing

that we were able to take to DOPL

and show how far

she had gone out of line.

She did agree that she

had shared personal information

without my permission,

but that's a cop-out when you look

at what she really did.

Even with all these violations,

Jodi Hildebrandt's therapy license

was only suspended for 18 months.

Our attorney said we were lucky

to get an 18-month probation.

I know very few therapists who've

had their license put on probation.

I mean, that's really uncommon.

Welcome to empowering

joy class. I'm Jodi Hildebrandt.

Ironically, this in many ways,

freed Jodi of having to worry

about obeying all the ethical rules

that her license would have

compelled her to follow.

And once she starts working

as a life coach in Connexions,

she could basically operate

in any way she wants.

I've been working with tens

of thousands of people for 20 years.

And I've been asking God

about how to help heal them.

My desire is to spread this

throughout the whole entire world.

It goes beyond just wanting

to divide couples and control them.

It goes to the idea

of controlling everyone.

She wants everyone to be her puppet.

That has the makings

of a cult leader.

If you look

at almost any cult leader,

let's take Keith Raniere of NXIVM,

they always begin

with the cult of self-improvement.

A lot of what Jodi Hildebrandt

was doing was sort of in that bent.

Get the help you need.

We've got an online community.

You have access to all these

digital workbooks and DVD's

and then you get to sit

in a class with all these students

and myself every Saturday morning.

It's pretty clear to me

that Jodi Hildebrandt was motivated

by two primary things,

money and power.

She's using the same tactics that

narcissists and tyrants have used

since the beginning of time.

It's all the same coercive control.

I have a friend that went to see

Jodi, he was struggling with life.

He's an LDS member

and has h*m* tendencies.

And he hadn't come out to the world.

And he went to Jodi with this.

He told me

he liked the stuff out the gate,

and she recommended

that he join the men's group.

In our group,

it was all straight men.

He did not want

to go to the men's group.

She ultimately talked him into it.

She's very good at that.

After a little while,

Jodi called him a liar

and that he's in distortion

and forced him to come out

with his h*m* tendencies.

She made him feel like

such a sick plague

because he had g*y feelings.

This about k*lled him.

I'm not kidding.

And so, now I'm getting angry.

I'm getting really angry.

But finally I just stood up

in a group meeting.

Jodi, and I just pointed at her,

I said, there's something

evil inside of you.

And all of you should not

be listening to the blank

that is coming out

of this woman's mouth.

This is off. There is no forgiveness.

This is just

a load of crap. This is wrong.

And the whole thing,

it was just the cult of Jodi.

And I won't be a part of it anymore.

Do you think Jodi Hildebrandt

is a cult leader?

I don't think Jodi Hildebrandt

is a cult leader intentionally.

I think that as she taught

what she taught,

when people would have

positive experiences with it,

they became the raving fans that

would advertise what she's teaching

as if it's the gospel truth,

and then created a culture

and an environment

that felt cult like.

Lust is a lie.

At the epicenter

and heart of lust is deception,

manipulation, coercion

and a trap for your spirit.

She had these really intense

relationships with women,

like kind of special favorite person.

I think Ruby's just one of many.

I've heard a lot of the rumors

about you know, romantic interests.

It definitely wouldn't surprise me

if there was some type of feelings

of more than friendship.

If they hadn't been

caught, eventually,

Ruby would have done

something to fall from grace

and then she

would have been replaced.

Because that's what

this dynamic does.

It is always a revolving door.

What did Jodi Hildebrandt

see in my ex-wife,

the daughter of a prestigious

Mormon leader?

A beautiful woman, by her side.

Jodi wanted Adam's first wife

because her father was

high up in Mormon leadership.

Jodi wanted Ruby

because Ruby had a huge platform,

and Jodi wanted that platform.

And so, with Ruby,

the genes were there to be turned on,

and Jodi was just the catalyst.

The truth heals. Truth is light.

Truth never changes.

In our investigation, we were

focusing on the child abuse

and we were asking

what's the motive here?

The more that we were able

to piece this puzzle together,

it became more and more clear

that what was going on,

was Ruby, like a religious follower,

was taking everything

Jodi said to be gospel.

We got a better picture of that

when we went back

with an additional warrant.

And that was when we found

the most damning piece of evidence,

Ruby's journal.