01x04 - Something New

[bunniefuu]

Thanks for coming.

No, thank you for inviting me

Uh, you're a lot less aggressive in person

than you are in your videos.

I feel like you are

less of a jerk to me here

than you have been online.

Well, you know, um

I mean, you called me a c**t.

Like, I watched that video.

Oh, there you go.

Do you still think I'm a c**t?

I kind of, yeah, but

[laughs]

[theme music plays]

MEN'S RIGHTS

[Scaachi] Back in February 2016,

I wrote a tweet that made everybody

on the Internet very upset with me.

SCAACHI KOUL

CULTURE WRITER, BUZZFEED NEWS

TORONTO, ON

My tweet basically said I was looking

for stories for BuzzFeed Canada

and I was hoping to find people who were

preferably not male and not white.

I didn't look at Twitter

for about an hour,

and when I came back,

I had 250 notifications just from Twitter.

A bunch of people got really upset with me

and they called me a perverse r*cist.

Then it very quickly

started getting much worse.

"If you don't like white men,

you can go back to India

and stop using white technology.

I heard sh1tting in the street

is super fun."

"How many nights have you stayed awake

praying and pleading for a p*nis?"

"I would really enjoy bashing

your stupid fat face in with a hammer."

This one just says,

"Shut the f*ck up, c**t,"

which frankly, I appreciate the brevity.

At the time what looked like a lot

of really random a*usive tweets

was actually part

of a much larger movement

that we now know

as the Men's Rights Activists,

MRAs for short.

They advocate for men's rights

largely because they feel

like women are taking them away.

We're absolutely not participating

in relationships with women

to stay away from all the problems

that exist.

If we legalize r*pe,

women will be more careful

with their bodies.

Feminism is delivered as angry women

and feminine men.

[Scaachi] These groups cite things

like Family Court laws that are biased,

high suicide rates for men,

and allegedly false r*pe allegations

to argue that feminism is basically

ruining the lives of men everywhere.

[phone line ringing]

[David] Hello?

Hi, David.

- It's Scaachi from BuzzFeed news.

- [David] Yeah, good to talk to you.

DAVID FUTRELLE

MRA EXPER

Can you tell me a little bit about what

would be the profile of a typical MRA?

[David] There are a certain percentage

of men's rights activists

who do care about specific issues.

- Uh-huh.

- I mean, there are older, divorced guys

who do care about custody,

and family court, and so on.

But the groups

that they have sort of inspired

are more radical now than they used to be,

and more openly misogynistic and hateful,

and more given to talk about

actual violence towards women.

You get these guys who are

really bitter and angry at the world

and who also sort of don't feel

that they don't have much to live for,

quite literally,

and that becomes

a very, very toxic combination.

BREAKING NEWS

Just after lunch time in Toronto today

a van plowed into pedestrians.

[man] Here's what we know right now.

At least ten people are dead.

[woman] The search is on for a motive.

[Scaachi] Recently in Toronto, a guy

drove a van through a crowd of people.

He k*lled ten and he injured another 16.

His alleged motivation

was largely his hatred for women.

He was a part of a movement

called Incel.

INCEL

He was really angry

that women weren't sleeping with him.

INVOLUNTARY CELIBATE

So it's easy to sort of laugh off

these MRAs.

But something happens to them,

and they develop into much bigger threats

and much greater monsters.

MEN'S RIGHTS ACTIVISTS

[Scaachi] The world of online misogynists

has ballooned in recent years,

splintering into diverse factions

who preach everything

from swearing off relationships

to advocating for date r*pe.

With hundreds of thousands of members

around the world,

this ever-growing network

has been dubbed the manosphere.

But what would a movement for men

that isn't mired in hate look like?

The first thing I have to do

to report this

is I've got to talk to one of them,

which I can't say

that I'm looking forward to.

Right about now some of you watching this

will write everything I'm saying

off to misogyny.

PAUL ELAM

PROMINENT MRA

Wrong.

Our producer reached out to Paul Elam

and asked him for an interview,

and he posted her email address

and her personal phone number

in his tweet.

It said, "I want to take this opportunity

to reply to their request in public

with a hearty and sincere

'eat sh*t and die.'

Please do both, and quickly. Thank you."

So we're gonna try to find somebody else

to talk to.

Everywhere you look, there are feminists

pushing their way

to the front of the line,

demanding women's "fair share"

of all of the goodies.

It it's just crazy.

[Scaachi] Karen Straughan is an MRA,

and she also happens to be a woman.

After I appeared in a segment

on Canadian television discussing MRAs

You can go online

and you can have a thousand men

send you a note as a woman

that they would like to k*ll you.

[Scaachi] She and another female MRA,

they call themselves "Honey Badgers,"

- took to YouTube.

- [Alison] Can we stop for a second?

[Karen] It's not okay

to feel marginalized as a man.

[Alison] It's against the identity

of being male.

[Karen] Because this c**t sitting here

with this smug look on her face,

this c**t will laugh at you.

HONEY BADGER RADIO

NOVEMBER 10, 2015

[Scaachi] I'd love to know how,

as a woman,

she legitimizes this movement

in her own head.

I'm surprised that you accepted

the interview request.

It was unexpected

that you invited me to

KAREN STRAUGHAN

MRA

Yeah, I mean

do this.

I'm very curious

about what you have to say.

Okay.

Yeah.

So, what brought you into this fight?

It seems like an odd place for a woman.

Well, I stumbled across the men's movement

kind of by accident.

I was just divorced and met a man

and we were dating,

and he was telling me, you know,

his horror story with an expartner

and not

he hasn't seen his daughter

in eight years.

[Scaachi] Hmm.

[Karen] So I think that those are stories

that there's no real room for

in the mainstream.

So how do you view the position of men

in society today?

Oh, I think that they kind of have

a constant bombardment of negativity

aimed at them.

If they complain,

they get told to stop complaining,

and if they get angry,

they get told, "Stop being angry."

And women have a much easier time

uh, being expressing anger

and expressing complaint

and not turning people off automatically.

I want to talk to you a bit

about what's been going on in Toronto,

and I want to know how you felt

about the van attack,

if you consider it a misogynistic attack.

I think that that's probably pretty much

what's going on there.

So how do you feel about that?

Well, I just wish he'd found my videos

or Honey Badger Brigade videos.

Because what we would have told him is,

"You need to, like,

stop basing your self-worth

on the approval of women.

Go out, get a hobby,

make some male friends,

take up a sport."

Um, so you don't feel

that the videos at all are responsible

for enciting a larger movement of hatred

within MRAs?

I don't think so.

In one of the videos, you suggested that

when they say that they hope I get r*ped,

that's not a threat.

- It's not.

- Um, yeah, I disagree.

"I hope you get hit by a bus"

is not a threat

to steal a bus and run you down.

It's certainly not nice, but

How do you reconcile with that language

being used online within your movement?

[Karen] That's anger.

How do you reconcile with, you know,

the secondwave feminists who

or even, you know,

ones that are writing articles today?

You know, Julie Bindel said men should be

put in concentration camps, you know.

I disavow them and I disagree with them.

Yeah, okay, but it's anger.

But I'm giving you an opportunity

to do that and you're not doing it.

No, I'm not.

I think within feminism

they want it to be easier for men

to ask for help, to get a therapist,

to ask for affection,

or to ask for care in a way that they

maybe don't feel like they can right now.

Let's just say

for the purpose of argument that

ten percent of the victims

of serious domestic violence are male.

Women have a virtual 100% monopoly

on services,

and you have government funding,

millions and millions of dollars a year

of government funding,

going to domestic violence services

for women, right?

Which is required.

I mean, they need it.

Some men need it, too.

Okay, I'm not saying

that we need to choke them out

from having any of it. I'm just saying

But that's what the services

in shelters do.

[telephone line ringing]

[Karolina] How are you?

Earlier todayI talked to Karen Straughan.

[Karolina] Oh, God, how did that go?

I mean, it wasn't fun.

KAROLINA WACLAWIAK

SCAACHI'S BOSS, MRA SKEPTIC

She doesn't think

that she triggers hatred or violence

or that she's sort of a part

of the radicalization of young men.

She's really washing her hands

of almost any influence.

[Karolina] She's not the person

to talk to, to have like a nuance

[Scaachi] No, and I don't think she

Yeah, and I don't think she has

the capacity to actually develop

solutions.

[Karolina] So let's find someone

who could be more thoughtful about this.

Yeah.

[Scaachi] Who are the actual men

who would benefit

from the kind of help

Karen's talking about?

DALLAS, TX

[Paige] Glad to have you here.

[Scaachi] Thanks for having me.

Yeah, it's a special place.

I'm glad y'all get to see it.

Yeah, me too.

[Scaachi] Paige Flink runs

The Family Place,

a non-profit for domestic violence victims

that recently opened

one of only two shelters in the US

specifically for men.

How many people are staying here

right now?

So right now we have 11 people.

We have up to 22 beds,

seven bedrooms,

but it really depends

on the configuration of the family.

So they can bring their kids here as well?

PAIGE FLINK

CEO, THE FAMILY PLACE

Yes, a man can come with his child

because of family violence.

[Scaachi] Wow.

[Paige] This has been an unknown

and really underserved population,

the male victim of domestic violence.

[Scaachi] Mm-hmm.

How busy has it been since you opened?

Last year we served over 50 people,

and this year we are on track

to probably double that.

[Scaachi] Oh, wow, that's a lot.

I was gonna ask I mean, it seems like

there's a different set of expectations

for men and for women

about who can ask for help.

Oh, well, our culture thinks men

"Man up, be tough, don't cry,

stiff upper lip,"

all those kinds of things.

[man] First it started

with property damage.

She busted my apartment windows.

She busted my truck window.

And then, hit me in the face with a brick.

ANONYMOUS

DOMESTIC ABUSE SURVIVOR

This was the last incident

to make me come here.

She, um

hit me in my face, my arm, and my rib.

Did you call the police at any point

during these violent outbursts?

[man] I called the police

on the second incident, but

it's like I was the suspect, you know?

I'm a man and of military background.

It's like the cards are already stacked

against you, you know what I mean?

And they're certanly not giving you

the benefit of the doubt.

No.

[man] Not at all.

[Scaachi] Did you feel any anxiety

about asking for help?

[man] There's one thing that was my fear

is like they're gonna

just look at me as weak.

But everybody I have dealt with

that's heard my situation,

most cases, they

they kind of commend me

for just coming forward and actually,

you know, doing something about it

without reacting

and doing something to her.

That's more the weaker aspect,

you know what I mean?

[Scaachi] Yeah.

Have you heard any support

from these groups

called Men's Rights Activists?

No support from them at all.

Nothing?

Nothing at all.

[Scaachi] Like not even like a kind

Not even like no.

The MRAs speak frequently

about the idea that feminism

gives so much focus on women

as the victims of domestic violence

that it takes attention away from men.

Well, we're here at The Family Place

to prove them wrong.

We have to serve men or women,

but in the month of April, I turned away

almost 500 women and children

and four men.

- [Scaachi] Mm- hmm.

- So there's a big difference.

That's a big scale.

Big scale.

Yeah. Yeah.

So I have a LexisNexis search open.

Some of the men that I spoke to today

gave me the names of their alleged ab*ser.

So we're looking them up

and seeing if we can find legal documents

supporting what they said

or just sort of any criminal record

and see if it matches up.

[Scaachi] The man I spoke to on the record

filed a police report against his ab*ser,

but didn't reveal her name,

so I couldn't reach out to her

for comment,

but he's one of dozens of men

that The Family Place shelters every year.

It's clear that the demand for women

when it comes to a domestic violence

shelter is much greater,

but it is certainly noteworthy

that there are this many men

who need something like that.

The changes that would be required

so that men like the ones

who are at The Family Place

would get some help are structural.

It's about changing fundamentally

how society looks at men.

NEW YORK, NY

[man 1] Can someone grab that staff

back there?

Anybody else have intensity

they're bringing with them today?

[man 2] Yeah.

[man 1] So come on to the middle,

put your hand on the staff, and

let's put all the intensity

into the staff.

The ManKind Project

is a 35-year-old brotherhood

BOYSEN HODGSON

MANKIND PROJECT USA

of nonprofit organizations

around the world

whose aim is to support men.

What holds you back

from the man that you envision?

Fear of what others are gonna think?

Fear of ridicule, rejection?

Fear of being able to hold it together.

Um, you know, I'm a single dad.

I've got lots of things on the line,

a lot of plates spinning.

[Boysen] We are about emotion.

We are about connection.

We are about, you know,

intimacy and exploring pain.

Take the hand of another man.

And this doesn't have to stay

nice and neat, it can be a puppy pile.

Just let that grief start to have ascent.

[all exhaling loudly]

- The pain you've carried.

- [grunts loudly]

The thing stuck in your soul.

[all yelling]

Men are hurting in a huge way.

EKA DARVILLE

MEMBER, MANKIND PROJEC

And the ones who are inflicting

a lot of the pain,

and suffering, and oppression

that is happening

across all strata of society.

And what we're doing

is we're empowering men

to be the best versions of themselves

for society,

for the women in their lives,

for the children in their lives,

and most importantly, for themselves.

[Boysen] When you're ready to take flight,

push through this and jump right in. Okay?

[man] Oh!

[laughter]

[laughter]

[Boysen] Most guys aren't used to going in

and sitting down with a group of guys

and really getting honest.

[man] Can I ask where it is in your body?

[crying]

It's in my heart.

[man] Yeah, so give what's in your heart,

give it to all these men.

You have permission to have it held.

[crying]

[man] To give it a voice.

[continues crying]

What's the message you need to hear

from men and from the world,

and from yourself?

I am lovable and I'm worthy.

You are lovable,

and you are worthy.

Let's heal masculinity

so that we don't have so many hurt men

out there

laying waste to communities.

[Scaachi] This is a version of a solution

that would benefit everybody, I think.

They're trying to do some work

that hopefully will change things

generationally.

How do we talk to boys

when they're really little

and how do we condition them?

And what do we let them get away with,

and then what do we?

[man yelling indistinctly]

[man speaks indistinctly]

I don't know how to fix that.

TORONTO, ON

VIGIL FOR VAN ATTACK VICTIMS

[Scaachi] A lot of the things that MRAs

talk about are legitimate problems.

When they talk about the male suicide rate

or domestic violence,

those things are real.

TORONTO STRONG

But there's a huge difference

between supporting other men

by advocating for those issues

and blaming it all on women.

It's selfish, it's simplistic,

and it can have serious consequences

in the real world.

MRAs say we won't let them be vulnerable.

But then they hide that vulnerability

behind the walls of these aggressive

and sometimes violent groups.

LOVE FOR ALL

HATRED FOR NONE

Men are hurting,

and they deserve our help.

But not at the expense of everyone else.