01x04 - Burning Sinaloa

[bunniefuu]

[airplane engine rumbles]

SEPTEMBER 15, 2023

[tense music playing]

[Derek, in English] The photograph
was sent to me pretty quickly.

The night that Ovidio Guzmán
was put on the plane in Mexico.

So, I decided to put out a Tweet
to let the world know that Ovidio

was coming back
to America to face justice.

The basic text was,
"Welcome to America,

it'll be nice for you to join
your father in a family reunion

in maximum security prison."

Ovidio, like his father, El Chapo,

ran his entire organization
as a leader of the Sinaloa Cartel.

And both of those charges carry
a mandatory life sentence.

[camera shutter clicking]

[in Spanish] There is concern
within the Sinaloa Cartel

that Ovidio is here
in the United States.

There has been this question
of whether Ovidio is really going

to cooperate or not
with the U.S. authorities.

[cartel member] There will be many deaths.
There will be much bloodshed.

People in Culiacán
talk about a "narco-pandemic."

[cartel member]
As such, a w*r is looming.

This w*r has already begun.

[music concludes]

[theme music playing]

BATTLE OF CULIACAN: HEIRS OF THE CARTEL

[theme music concludes]

[indistinct chatter]

EPISODE 4
BURNING SINALOA

[tense music playing]

The United States government made
the request to the Mexican government.

The person to be extradited is notified.

He has the opportunity
to seek protection.

In this case there was,
as far as I understand,

no request for protection,
and the extradition was carried out.

[Jesús G] There is a very interesting
element, and it is controversial,

the fact that Mexican President
López Obrador

would first free Ovidio and then
hand him over to the United States.

But what should not be forgotten
is that the initial objective

was really to arrest him
and extradite him from the beginning.

[César] It seems to me
that the United States government

[i]must have made some concession

to the government
of President López Obrador

to grant them the right
to extradite Ovidio Guzman expeditiously.

His defense found out about this
when he was already in the United States.

According to our Mexican legal system,

yes, it was a trick
on the part of the government.

That is, we used a legal trick
to not grant a right to a person.

[i]They do not notify his defense
but only notify him,

and the next day
he is transferred to the United States.

[music concludes]

[intense music playing]

[Jesús G] [i]It's quite interesting,
the moment when Ovidio

[i]is extradited to the U.S.
because Mexico and the United States

are experiencing
a moment of significant tension

due to fentanyl trafficking.

[César] [i]"We have a fentanyl problem,

and the fentanyl is being brought in
by Mexican criminal groups,

specifically, the Sinaloa Cartel.
Specifically, the sons of Chapo Guzmán."

"Do you remember the great Ovidio Guzmán?"

"Well, we've already arrested him
and now we have him here."

[in English] I'm glad that eventually
they were able to arrest him

and that he was,
in fact, extradited to the United States

in a federal court in Chicago.

[music concludes]

-[dramatic music playing]
-[indistinct chatter]

[cartel member, in Spanish]
Ovidio became very famous,

[i]and that is what the U.S. seeks.
Hunt down the famous.

[i]The "Gringos" put a mark on him
that he was the best.

[i]We can say that they captured the best.

[Jesús] The U.S. had a priority.

They needed another
big cartel leader from Mexico,

-to be processed in the U.S.
-[camera shutter clicking]

[cartel member, distorted voice]
For the U.S., Ovidio was a great prize.

[i]It was a big deal to have
El Chapo's son in the U.S.

[music concludes]

[Jesús]
[i]Ovidio looks a lot like his father.

[i]If you compare the photos
of the father and son

[i]from when they arrived
in the United States,

-the sad look of defeat is impressive.
-[soft music playing]

[Jesús] [i]What's behind the photo,
the thoughts and emotions of this figure?

Knowing that what he faces
is not going to be easy.

It's going to take him to a place
he never thought he could find himself in.

Ovidio was transforming

and we've seen his transformation
through the photographs.

The first photograph is,
of course, from this video

[i]when they are arresting him
in the first Culiacanazo,

[i]with his head held a little high,
more courageous,

and once he arrives and is admitted
to this prison in Chicago

and they take his mugshot while he's
already wearing the orange uniform,

[i]I think
that's where reality truly hits.

He looks like a very diminished man.
He looks even thinner than before.

He looks scared, he looks haggard.

And I think the next thing
we're going to see

is gonna be an Ovidio on trial, crying.
An Ovidio crying for his freedom.

[i]Will he have the capacity to endure
what he has to endure,

[i]risking the fact that he may be accused,

so that he gets
a life sentence? I don't know.

[in English] I was a federal prosecutor...

in the U.S. Attorney's Office
for the Eastern District of New York.

And the last case I trialed
was the trial of El Chapo Guzmán.

[tense music playing]

There are some parallels
between El Chapo's case and Ovidio's case.

[Jesús G, in Spanish]
[i]Ovidio is accused of drug trafficking,

[i]of money laundering,
also for handling weapons,

[i]and even for acting violently
with the handling of weapons,

[i]and for leading a criminal organization
for a long period,

which is the same accusation
that his father, El Chapo Guzmán, faced.

[in English] And both of those charges
carry a mandatory life sentence.

TRIAL OF THE CENTURY

-[music concludes]
-So, it's quite possible that Ovidio

could end up in supermax
just like his father.

[intense music playing]

[in Spanish] The supermax prison
in Colorado, the inmates who are there,

well, most of them, are very,
very high-profile characters, t*rrorists,

[i]characters who committed
heinous crimes in the United States,

[i]very high-impact drug traffickers.
El Chapo Guzmán is one of them.

[in English] These guys are not escaping
from a U.S. supermax prison.

I'm pretty sure about that.

[moody music playing]

[Eddie] [i]I was 24 or 25-years-old
when I first entered the supermax.

It's a prison
that takes away hope for people.

It's a very depressing environment.

[i]I was arrested at the age of 16,
in Washington, DC, for homicide,

and I take full responsibility
for what took place,

but I was arrested as a child,
charged as an adult,

and I faced 75 years to life in prison.

[i]The ADX supermax is near
the Rocky Mountains, which we never see.

[i]I didn't see a tree
in the six years I was there,

I didn't see grass when I was there.

The building's a very cold building.
Very cold. You know,

very dungeon-like building,
because the way it's built,

you don't know, really, where you are
in the building a lot of the times.

[i]Double cell,
you are locked behind two doors.

[i]The bed is concrete
with a very thin mattress,

and I think my shoulders
and my back is bad

because of lying in that concrete slab.

[i]We have a window, a loose, slit window,
we can't see nothing else over the wall,

[i]where should be the Rocky Mountains.

In a supermax, you have some people
who only get visits from their attorneys.

The jail restricts them
from having visits,

so that's the only contact
they'd have with the outside world.

[unsettling music playing]

[Mariel, in Spanish] I am the only one
who could talk to Mr. Guzman,

[i]Joaquín Guzmán, El Chapo.

He has no right to speak
to anyone in his family.

He's alone 24 hours a day,
seven days a week,

he can't talk to other prisoners either.

He's alone in his cell,

he eats in his cell,
he bathes in his cell.

All inside his cell.

So, many years of confinement have
affected him emotionally, psychologically.

Not as much as it might
affect someone else,

because Mr. Guzmán
is quite strong-minded.

[Mike] I believe that Ovidio's capture
had a lot of impact

on the psychology of Chapo Guzmán,

because Chapo Guzmán loves his children.

Does he know about Ovidio's situation?
Of course.

[chuckles]
Everyone knows Ovidio's situation.

[i]The whole world
knew about the Culiacanazo.

Obviously he wants
the best for his son, but...

I assume... that he's afraid...

[i]his son could end up like him or similar.

[music concludes]

[Jose] I didn't defend him

because I am not qualified.
Meaning, I'm not a "Gringo" lawyer,

but I was close
to all of El Chapo's lawyers to date.

All... all... dishonest,

thieves, filthy rats.
They were never interested in El Chapo.

[i]Not only did they give him
a life sentence,

but on top of that, 30 more years.

It's unheard of.
It's for Ripley. It's for history.

So, are they going to keep

El Chapo's body in jail
for another 30 years?

[in English] I think given the level
of misery and death

that El Chapo caused during the course
of his criminal career,

-it does feel like a fair sentence.
-[dramatic music playing]

[in Spanish] What's more,
if you watch Chapo's trial,

there were 56 for the prosecution...

and one for the defense.

Is that defense?

[i]Who benefits from El Chapo not returning?

[in English] The testimony
from the cooperating witnesses

or "The Compadres" as some

of them are known in this trial

was critical to us building our case.

These types of witnesses
are critically important

to a big conspiracy case
because it shows--

It brings you inside the conspiracy.
It shows the juror what was going on

in the inner workings
of the criminal conspiracy.

-[gavel thuds]
-[ominous music playing]

So, those witnesses, like El Rey Zambada,
were really critical to us showing

[i]how the organization worked,

and what conduct
El Chapo Guzmán was engaged in

during the course of the conspiracy.

FORMER DRUG DEALER
MAYO ZAMBADA'S BROTHER

FORMER DRUG DEALER
MAYO ZAMBADA'S SON

[in Spanish]
Unbelievable that Zambada's own son

has testified against him.
Why? Because dad sent them.

The dad wants
to keep the territory for himself.

ZAMBADA FAMILY

[Gina in English] During the trial,
the defense strategy was to deflect

culpability from El Chapo
as the leader of the Sinaloa Cartel

and put the focus on El Mayo Zambada
and say that he was the real leader.

[in Spanish] We always maintained
that he was not the leader,

that the leader was another person,
El Mayo Zambada.

[newsreader 1 over recorder]
[i]Around 1:30 p.m. in Culiacán, Sinaloa,

[i]an operation by federal forces

arrested Nestor Isidro Perez,
aka El Nini.

He was in charge of security
for El Chapo's sons, a very violent man,

a man who imposed his power with violence.

-[indistinct distant arguing]
-[dramatic music playing]

[Luis] [i]He's in a house alone.
He's still a bit drunk.

Mexican and U.S. intelligence
gets wind of it.

"That's when we can go get him."

[crowd arguing indistinctly]

[Luis] [i]He's unarmed.
In fact, he's in his underwear.

And there's this video where he tries
to escape through the roof.

[man shouting indistinctly]

They sh**t him very close as if to say,

"If you dare to jump or anything,
we'll sh**t you."

[g*nshots firing]

[Luis] [i]And he gives himself up.

[Sandoval] This person is the one
who ordered the attacks

against the Military Housing Unit

there in Culiacán, Sinaloa.

He also participated in the aggressions
to which the National Guard

and the Army and Air Force were subjected
during Ovidio's detention on January 5th.

That arrest is practically pure gold
for the DEA,

[i]for the Department of Justice.
He would be an extraordinary witness,

[i]really, against Ovidio.

[sirens wailing]

[newsreader 2, over recorder] El Nini,
alleged head of the Chapitos' sicarios,

[i]was extradited from Mexico
to the United States.

[Luis] [i]There are people deep inside
and very close to them

[i]passing information all the time

because they are being promised deals.

They tell them,
"If you get that person to talk

and tell me things about
where Iván Archivaldo is,

where that person is...

I'm not arresting you.
I'll just take your information.

I'll detain you, I'll process you,
but I'll let you go,

and I'll release you
in the U.S. a free man."

REWARD

[Uttam, in English][i] The leaders
of the Sinaloa Cartel are a high priority

[i]for the Department of Justice,
so I'm not surprised

that the U.S. government
has increased the rewards

for any information
leading to their arrest.

[in Spanish] The Chapitos have left
"narcomantas," which are narco-messages.

[Jesús] [i]Tarps, posters,
which usually the organized crime

[i]place in different public spaces
so that everyone can see them.

[Mike][i] Saying that they are going
to stop producing fentanyl,

and that anyone who produces fentanyl
will be k*lled

because they're feeling the pressure,
especially now

that Ovidio has been captured
and extradited.

They have a strategy of wanting to say
that they are not responsible

for anything that happens in Culiacán.

[tense music playing]

[cartel member, distorted voice]
[i]That's another of their lies.

[i]The Chapitos are always focused
on reframing the narrative,

[i]always to appear to be
the good guys in the story.

That was one of the strategies.

And the other was saying
that Mayo Zambada's people

were the ones manufacturing
and responsible for the fentanyl.

If the Chapitos don't handle
the fentanyl, who does?

Well, Zambada!

[cartel member] [i]The main producers
are them, the Chapitos and their people,

[i]their cooks, their producers.

What the Chapitos
are looking for, more than anything else,

[i]is to monopolize fentanyl
so that only they can make it.

[i]They control the market,
they control the price, everything.

I don't doubt that Zambada...

screwed or accused Ovidio

[i]so he'd be captured
by the Mexican government.

Will Ovidio Guzmán cooperate
with the authorities to be able

to somehow have better benefits?

It wouldn't be the first time
an organized crime figure

cooperated with authorities.

[in English]
It's certainly possible that Ovidio

could try to cooperate
against his brothers.

[in Spanish] If he wanted to cooperate,

he wouldn't necessarily need
to betray his brothers.

[news theme music playing]

Arantxa Loizaga here,

interrupting your programming
from coast to coast

to bring you some breaking news.

Mexican drug lord
Ismael "El Mayo" Zambada,

co-founder of the Sinaloa Cartel,

as well as Joaquín Guzmán López,
Chapo Guzmán's son,

were arrested in El Paso, Texas,
according to a statement

from the Department of Justice,
and I quote,

[i]"The Department of Justice has arrested

two additional alleged leaders
of the Sinaloa Cartel,

[i]one of the most violent and powerful

drug trafficking organizations
in the world."

[intense music playing]

[Adrián]
[i]That Thursday, it was a Thursday

[i]where no one in Sinaloa slept well.

So, the first thing
we tried to do in the newspaper

is to try to verify
with some local source

if that arrest was real.

We got it from military sources
who simply told us "Yes."

[Ioan] When the news
of the capture of Mayo arrives,

I'm on vacation, trying to rest...

like many narco-journalists.

And when it arrives, I think "Well, f*ck."

UNITED STATES CAPTURES ISMAEL ZAMBADA

Ismael "El Mayo" Zambada,
I think until July 25th,

he was the most legendary boss
of the Sinaloa Cartel,

and while El Chapo
was the boss on the surface,

-Mayo was the boss in the mountains.
-[music concludes]

THE KINGPIN THAT NEVER TOUCHED A CELL

[dramatic music playing]

[Ioan] [i]Mayo is like very contained,
very calm.

He has an image of someone fair,
who is nonviolent,

who persuades people
and makes arrangements,

old school, a country drug dealer,

a cowboy, the man with a hat,

which is what's used to represent him
and his group, "the hats."

However, in the name of Mayo Zambada,

[i]there are armed groups
that k*ll many people.

[i]So, people talk about him.

"How is it possible that Mayo Zambada
has been dealing

for more than half a century
and never got caught?"

[telephone ringing]

[Steve over recording, in English]
He has done this for 50 years

[i]because he pays
every branch of government

[i]and military to allow him
to operate in Mexico.

[i]They are bought
and paid for by Mayo Zambada,

[i]especially Mayo Zambada.

[in Spanish]
I think we find it so hard to believe

that Ismael "El Mayo" Zambada
has been captured.

And precisely because of this
mythical and legendary condition

of his figure and his infallibility.

[Steve in English] I know
there was a prior theory out there

[i]that Mayo got on the plane
to look at some properties

[i]or that he was duped
into getting on the plane.

[i]If Mayo showed up in the United States,

we're ain't going to throw him back,
no matter how he came here.

[in Spanish] Joaquín Guzmán Junior
tricks him,

Mayo Zambada is his godfather,

[i]into boarding a plane to check out
clandestine runways,

[i]and takes him to Texas.

BERLÍN FIELD

NEW MEXICO [U.S.A]

Let's remember that this was
the first version that circulated.

A version leaked by FBI agents.

WHO TRICKED MAYO ZAMBADA
INTO FLYING TO THE U.S.?

[Ioan] We received it, honestly,
with a lot of disbelief,

[i]until we started connecting the dots.

For anyone who knows anything
about this topic,

this version is not credible.

How can the old sea wolf,
the big fox that you never caught,

suddenly be fooled by being told
that, "You are going to get on the plane

[i]because you're going to see some land"?

A 76-year-old man,

why does he have to get on planes
and check clandestine runways?

[i]Where's Mayo's security detail?

So what, suddenly he's distracted and
"We're arriving into the United States"?

-President Joe Biden has just reacted...
-[music concludes]

-...regarding the capture of Mayo Zambada.
-What does it say?

[dramatic music playing]

The U.S. government reacts
to the capture of Mayo and Joaquin,

I think, first, as they say
in English, "By the book."

I think they're going
to brag about this capture

as one of great achievement

against drug traffickers,
against fentanyl.

REGARDING TWO SINALOA CARTEL
KINGPINS' ARREST

[Steve, in English] Mayo's capture,
for the United States, is f*cking huge

[i]because Mayo Zambada
owns the government of Mexico.

[in Spanish] I like this phrase.
It says press releases reveal more

in what they don't say
than in what they do say.

The first being that there's no mention

of cooperation
with the Mexican government.

[Steve, in English] [i]Giving information
to the government of Mexico

[i]is basically pissing your case away
because of this corruption.

[in Spanish] It's impossible to think
that Joaquín Guzmán

could cross the border with a plane,
a pilot, and Mayo Zambada

without at least the authorization
of the American government.

The fact that...

he has made the decision

to surrender,

or run the risk of going to the U.S.
and getting captured there

represents a major step forward.

He gave himself up,

[i]or as we might call it,
it was self-surrender.

There on the border,
he arrives and surrenders.

I'm starting to go with this version
and I think this sounds credible.

[Steve over recorder, in English]
[i]I don't see any reason why Mayo

[i]would want to self-surrender
to U.S. law enforcement.

[i]There were no deals made.

You know, he's an old man
and he's been doing this forever.

[in Spanish] The version
of the agreed delivery of Mayo

doesn't seem to me to hold up,

because the truth is that he had been
unpunished for 40 years in Sinaloa,

nobody was looking for him,

[i]and while we were all speculating,
ten days after the capture,

[i]Mayo Zambada's letter appears.

There were questions
still hanging in the air.

[i]Whether it'd been a surrender,
a betrayal, a capture.

[i]And what the letter says,
in addition to other elements, is that.

[i]The first is that he says
he is summoned there to a meeting

[i]where Joaquín Guzmán should've been.

He is betrayed there by Joaquín Guzmán
and is forced to board a plane

[i]to transfer him to the United States
against his will.

[cartel member] [i]I know all this
because I'm part of the cartel,

[i]and news travels fast.
Mr. Mayo, confident,

[i]arrived with reduced security detail,
Mr. Chaidez and Chayo.

[i]He was someone Mayo trusted.
He betrayed him.

[music concludes]

[tense music playing]

[Adrián] [i]There's something
that is quite peculiar

[i]in the letter of Mayo Zambada.

In one of the paragraphs, he mentions
that when he arrives at the meeting,

[i]there's a table full of fruit.

Why would a boss like Mayo Zambada stop

to explain that there's fruit
on the table?

I think that element is there
to give credibility to the letter.

[i]To give realism to the letter

and we all believe
that his version is what happened.

[cartel member] Mr. Chaidez and Chayo,
his usual bodyguards, missing to date,

[i]most likely already dead,
but since their bodies haven't be found...

[i]They bandaged him up,
put him on a plane,

[i]and the plane took off from a runway.

A runway there in Berlín Field,
near Culiacán.

[i]The plane that arrived
in the U.S. left from there.

The one who gets
on the plane with him is Joaquín...

and the one who gets off
the plane with him

when the American government
arrests them is Joaquín.

[i]And who we know was directly involved

in the handing over
of Mayo Zambada is Joaquín.

[suspenseful music playing]

[Jesús] [i]As far as we know,

the Chapitos still felt
some anger or resentment

because those who testified
against their father,

were the sons of Mayo Zambada.

[cartel member]
The cooperation of Mr. Ismael's son,

[i]Vicente, and his brother, El Rey,
most likely that had something to do

[i]with everything that happened
with the kidnapping of Mr. Mayo Zambada.

[Steve in English] [i]Chapo, from a supermax,
does have access to his lawyers,

[i]who communicate with his children,
both in custody and out of custody.

[i]So, through his attorney,

they could have arranged
for this to happen,

[i]for this abduction of Mayo,

his trip to the United States
against his will.

We disclosed that plea negotiations

are going on,
which isn't all that shocking,

because plea negotiations go on
in every case

including many that eventually
end up in trial.

[in Spanish] I think it's undeniable
that part of the negotiation

[i]that the Guzmáns may have had
with the U.S. government

implies that Joaquín put Mayo Zambada
on a plane and on to the other side.

I certainly think that it's a great...
asset, let's say, in that negotiation.

[cartel member] [i]Ovidio turned out to be

a good the talker for the authorities
and now he has a partner,

[i]it's going to be quite the show
that the two of them are going to give.

[i]I can tell you that throughout Sinaloa
they say he's already cooperating.

[i]Ovidio will talk about whatever

they ask him to, including the corrupt
government of Mexico,

[i]you could talk about police officers,
generals, governors...

[Adrián] [i]The facts show that the meeting
on July 25 was attended

[i]by Joaquín Guzmán and his companions,
Ismael Zambada and his companions.

Rocha Moya was also called up,
or what Mayo says

is that they invited him and that
Rocha Moya was going to be there.

[cartel member] [i]At that meeting,
there was going to be

[i]a very famous politician from Sinaloa,
Hector Melesio Cuén,

[i]and the Governor of Sinaloa,
Mr. Rubén Rocha Moya.

[i]It is known that he's in that position,
he's governor,

[i]because the Sinaloa Cartel decided so,
and so they put him there.

Drug traffickers...

work with politicians
and with their election campaigns.

[cartel member] [i]In Sinaloa,
politicians also have

[i]to come to an agreement
with drug traffickers.

[i]There has to be a balance
of power there, I think, always.

[Adrián] [i]Rocha had run
as a left-wing candidate back in the '80s,

[i]then again in '98, and he finally
made it with Morena until 2021.

He's part of the political generation
of Andrés Manuel López Obrador,

close to López Obrador himself.

The Chapitos
are very supportive of Governor Rocha,

they are already accusing him
very strongly in Mexico.

DID ROCHA MOYA KNOW ABOUT THAT MEETING?

Rocha Moya himself declares that
the same day the letter is made public

at an event where the president is

[i]and the president-elect,
Claudia Sheinbaum, in Culiacán,

[i]Rocha Moya himself says,

"Well, if they told you I was going
to be there, they deceived you."

What it says there
is that, among others...

Rubén Rocha Moya, Governor of the State
was summoned to that event.

That this was the reason,
perhaps, the hook...

for Mr. Ismael Zambada
to go to that event.

I want to tell you something
without any strings attached.

First of all,
I was not in Sinaloa that day.

And we have no evidence
of anything else.

That is, Mayo mentions that
they tell him that he will be there,

but he never says in the letter
that Rocha Moya was there,

and there is already evidence
that he was in the U.S.

If they said I was going to be there,
then they lied,

and if you believed them,
you fell in the trap.

There is absolutely nothing, nothing...

that can link me to that matter.

With that out of the way,
the question that remains

is whether he traveled on purpose.

The governor has been
very emphatic in all the interviews

that he did not know about the meeting,
that he had nothing to do with it.

[i]But we do have evidence
that the person who was there

[i]was Melesio Cuén
and that he was m*rder*d right there.

[cartel member] [i]Right there,
Mr. Héctor Melesio Cuén

[i]was shot in the legs.

He died hours later,
having bled to death.

What has the Prosecutor's Office
achieved since then?

Well, they have managed to show
that Cuén was there,

that there was Cuén's blood on the farm,

that there was blood
of Mayo Zambada's bodyguard,

and agrees with one of the things
that Mayo Zambada says in the letter.

CUEN'S BLOOD FOUND AT MAYO'S REUNION

[Ioan] [i]This story is so intense, so crazy.

One might think,
"What does this all mean?"

That the U.S. agents

are working with the Chapitos to make
an arrest and an express extradition.

[Steve, in English] Would
the United States use a criminal group

[i]in a foreign country
to assist with the arrest?

[i]No. But when you're dealing
with a sovereign nation like Mexico,

[i]which is corrupt from head to toe,
we could never get our guys down there.

[i]We have to think outside the box,
we have to be creative in order to get

[i]-our criminals to the United States.
-[music concludes]

[Obrador, in Spanish] It can't be right
because they k*lled people.

It was totally ill*gal.

They were waiting for Mr. Mayo.

Sinaloa didn't have
the level of violence...

-it has now.
-[brooding music playing]

[Adrián] I believe that the United States
are jointly responsible with Mexico

[i]for everything that has to do
with drug trafficking and organized crime.

[Steve over recording, in English]
[i]Both Mexico and the United States

[i]are to blame for that w*r,
because the United States,

[i]we are the number one consumers of drugs,

and Mexico is responsible
because they allow it to happen.

[in Spanish] I found myself,
as the United States ambassador to Mexico,

with some ideas
that are frankly in tension

with those of my own
government agencies, such as the DEA.

For them, success is how many people
have been arrested, extradited,

[i]and taken away
before the courts in the United States.

[in English] I do believe that capturing
kingpins is an important element

of fighting against Mexican drug cartels.

[i]It's important to go after the leadership,

it's important to demonstrate
to the leaders,

[i]"You're not gonna get away with this."

[in Spanish] DEA people sometimes have
their own perspective.

While they can be
good law enforcement officers,

they are not gonna make
for great politicians or great analysts.

The arrest
of the world's most wanted criminal

accredits the coordination
of our institutions

-in favor of security and the rule of law.
-[music concludes]

And we're going after them all.

[tense music playing]

What good does it do you to arrest a man?

So, you can say, "You have Chapo."

But the handling of things continues.

[cartel member] Whoever falls, it makes
no difference in drug trafficking.

[i]Everything will remain the same,
as it has been for 30 or 40 years.

[Fulton] [i]There are people who say that
they're only trophies for the "Gringos."

[Ioan] [i]The "Kingpin strategy"
with this Chapo, Mayo...

-[indistinct shouting]
[i]-...Ovidio thing,

[i]it's like removing the heads.
It doesn't work,

-and it causes more violence.
-[music concludes]

But when the moment
of confrontation comes,

entering with firepower
would generate...

a w*r,
which is what happened in the past,

and it led us nowhere.

[intense music playing]

If record numbers of people
continue to die from overdoses,

I don't understand
how you can call something a success,

even if there is
a record number of extraditions.

What does it matter?

To think one can end drug trafficking
is naive. It is a naive stance.

[i]Drug trafficking cannot be stopped

as long as there's a demand
for drug use.

If you walk through the streets
here in Washington or New York...

[breathes emphatically]

...you smell, and many times
you'll smell a little herb

[i]which could be the smell of marijuana.

[music concludes]

The U.S. has already managed
to regulate marijuana.

It has already managed
to reformulate other things.

And while in the United States
schools are being built

with marijuana taxes,
in Mexico we continue to bury the dead.

SEPTEMBER 2024
THREE YEARS AFTER THE FIRST CULIACANAZO

[tense music playing]

[Adrián] When the sh**ting started,
everyone in Sinaloa knew

[i]that this was going to happen.

We have a w*r between factions.

[Ioan] I arrived about four days
after this w*r began,

and I have covered wars
in Sinaloa before. This is worse.

VIOLENCE WAVE IN SINALOA

[Ioan] [i]Since, let's say,
the genesis of this occurred in Sinaloa...

-[indistinct chatter]
[i]-...at least 414 people

[i]have been deprived of their liberty,

of which more than half
have not yet appeared.

[crowd chanting]
[i]Our children, where are they?

[i]Where are they, where are they?

[protestor] Because they were taken alive!

[crowd chanting] We want them alive!

[Ioan] There are also many kidnappings.
They kidnap young people, especially,

[i]men on the street.

They are accused of being "Hawks,"
pointers, operators

for the Chapitos, or for the Mayos.
They kidnap them, they k*ll them.

People disappear
because they are made to disappear,

because there is no authority,
because there is no security.

[Adrián] Culiacán society has tried
to function during the day,

[i]being able to take their children
to school during the day,

work during the day,

but as soon as the sun goes down,
the city shifts.

[i]Everyone is locked
in their homes. There's a curfew.

[i]There's no nightlife,
no dinner, no theater, no cinema.

[i]Those are closed down.

And well, there's a lot of paranoia too.

-[ominous piano playing]
-[siren wailing faintly]

[Adrián] People in Culiacán
talk about a "narco-pandemic."

In just over six weeks,


That's more than 2,000 a day.

It's crazy.
There's no way to deal with that.

[i]The strategy to respond
to the crisis we're experiencing,

[i]to this wave of violence,
is mostly federal.

[i]But the truth is that
this also generates other things.

[i]The Army is not accountable.

The population is also afraid

of the sicarios,
but also of the soldiers.

[Adrián] There's not a single
success story in the world

of a successful militarization
in terms of pacification. It goes wrong.

Drug trafficking acts like a guerrilla.

To fight against a guerrilla,

you have to control
the entire terrain all the time.

You need 20, 30, 40,000 soldiers

to occupy Sinaloa, to have total control.
And they don't have this amount.

[Adrián] [i]If we have learned anything
from covering these disputes

within organized crime
it's that in addition to the violent w*r,

in addition to the murders,
attacks, et cetera,

there's a narrative w*r.

[soft dramatic music playing]

[i]All acts of violence
are usually accompanied by messages.

And something that
we're specifically seeing in this dispute

between the Guzmáns and the Zambadas
is that the messages in the murders

are being given with hats and pizzas.

[Ioan][i] We arrived at a place where
five bodies were lying on the ground.

[i]And each one had a hat on its head,

and a small hat on its chest.

What does that mean?

The dead with hats on

are people who presumably worked
for the Mayo Zambada faction.

On the other side,
the Chapitos are called "La chapiza."

And they started saying,
"The chapiza. The chapizza."

-[camera clicking]
[i]-They left pizza boxes with heads.

[indistinct radio chatter]

Or bodies with pizza boxes
attached to the body.

[dramatic music plays]

[music concludes]

I have no elements
to tell you who is going to win,

but I can tell you who's going to lose.

All of us from Sinaloa are going to lose.

[intriguing music playing]

[Norma]
[i]Culiacán is a beautiful, precious city,

[i]and we are happy to live there,
but the other reality

[i]is that it's a society that is
culturally affected or impacted

by the subject of violence,
of tolerance to illegality in many ways.

[i]Seeing that a march created
by the arrest of El Chapo,

[i]in favor of the release of Chapo Guzmán

mobilized more people
than we have mobilized for the deaths--

[i]for the murders of journalists,
for the disappearance of young people,

for femicides.

it does make you wonder,
"What does society want?"

[Eddie A] [i]I think that in Culiacán,
no one's exempt

[i]from something happening to them

because it's
the most normal thing, really.

It is normal to have shootings,

and unfortunately,
you may be hit by a stray b*llet.

I like living in Culiacán,
but I dream of moving

to another country
because I think there are better places.

[Ernesto R] [i]My brothers,
unfortunately, were both k*lled.

We have normalized this in Sinaloa,
murders, how people die.

[i]And they too were victims of all this.

The Culiacanazo meant something to me
that I never thought would happen to me

and it was leaving Culiacán.

For me, it was a blow...

having to involve my family.

Culiacán is very small.

And there, the organized crime
knows where you live,

knows what you do,
knows where you work.

They know everything.

[Norma] After that October 17,
the city never returned to normal.

But what did develop naturally
was a feeling of "The streets are ours."

[indistinct chatter]

We cannot allow for them to be taken
in this way and snatched away from us.

[bicycle bell jingling]

[Norma] [i]Fear will not defeat us.

[music concludes]

As this documentary goes to press,

the legal proceedings against Ovidio
and Joaquín Guzmán Lopez in the U.S.

remain open, with possible life sentences.

They are believed to be negotiating
to improve their conditions

in exchange for revealing links between
the narcos and Mexican authorities

and testifying against
Ismael "El Mayo" Zambada.

In the U.S., "El Mayo" could face
charges up to the death penalty.

His strategy would be to agree
to a public trial in which he could reveal

the Sinaloa cartel's connections
to Mexican power.

Mexico's president Claudia Sheinbaum
would seek a comprehensive approach

to the fight against drug trafficking
that differentiates her

from López Obrador's policies.

On the first day of his term,
Donald Trump signed a directive

declaring Mexican cartels
as "t*rror1st groups,"

which would allow him
to intensify military action against them.

The possibility of agreeing
between the two countries

on a plan to deal with drug
and arms trafficking still seems distant.

Since the fall of Zambada,
"Los Chapitos" and "La Mayiza"

openly dispute the control of Sinaloa.

From September 2024
to the closing of this documentary,

the Sinaloa attorney general's office

has reported 656 deaths
in this confrontation.

Unofficial sources speak of
more than 700 dead and 500 missing.