[haunting music playing]
[woman 1] You know, my dad always said,
"Without family, you have nothing."
[man 1] We had a great family back then.
We all came together.
[woman 1] We all got along.
We were all happy with each other.
And then Nathan comes.
Life just changed.
For everyone, forever.
[reporter 1] Nathan Carman's mother
is missing and is presumed dead.
[reporter 2] Lost at sea
during a fishing trip.
[reporter 3]
Nathan is at the center of this.
Boats don't just drop out from under you
the way he described it.
[man 2] The middle of the ocean
is not a safe place.
What had happened
was just a severe accident.
[ominous music playing]
[reporter 4] This isn't the first time
tragedy has hit the Carman family.
[reporter 5] Nathan's grandfather
was found dead in his home
of a g*nsh*t wound to the head.
[man 3] The wounds were so severe
that you can almost barely make out
what could have caused it.
I said, "Whoever k*lled him is probably
sitting in this room right now."
I have a problem with you.
You were the last one
to see your grandfather.
Right off the bat, there should not
have been an interrogation.
People on the autism spectrum
are frequently misinterpreted.
You know, if you're different,
you're probably bad.
[man 4] Nathan was seen
as the low-hanging fruit.
The easy mark.
All this happened because of greed.
Because of one person's greed.
[man 5] According to the government,
he planned all this.
It's beyond crazy.
Might as well say he m*rder*d Kennedy.
[woman 1] This whole situation
is just one big Greek tragedy.
[music fades]
I-I've asked myself,
did I do the right thing?
I know at the time what I was thinking
was I-I need to keep my mom occupied
while I'm trying to fix the problem.
[water lapping]
[prosecutor] Did you have an argument
with your mother on the boat?
No.
-[prosecutor] Have a fight on the boat?
-No.
[prosecutor]
Did you k*ll your mother on the boat?
No.
[prosecutor] Did you sink the boat
after you k*lled your mother?
Objection. Compound question.
[haunting music playing]
[reporter 6] The search continues
for two missing boaters
off the coast of Rhode Island...
[reporter 7] An update now on
a mother and son who haven't been seen
since they left South Kingstown
on Saturday on a fishing trip.
Tonight, the Coast Guard says...
[man 6] The Coast Guard received a call
that there was an overdue vessel
in South Kingstown, Rhode Island.
Nathan Carman and his mom, Linda,
had decided to go fishing
in an area south of Block Island.
When they didn't return,
there was concern about them.
Uh, significant concern.
[reporter 8] The Coast Guard says
54-year-old Linda Carman
and her 22-year-old son Nathan
left and never returned
from a fishing trip
near Block Island on Sunday.
[woman 2] They would go
on all these fishing trips,
and just like any other time,
they were gonna ship out of Rhode Island,
the... the marina there.
She thought they'd be back
the next day around noon.
[text message whooshes]
Linda was supposed to call me
around 12:00, one o'clock.
Between 4:00 and 5:00,
I realized she hadn't called.
So I said, "This isn't right."
So I called the police.
I guess the Coast Guard
called me after that,
and I gave them the information,
and they started the search right away.
[reporter 9] The Coast Guard searched
the waters off Block Island
and then Long Island,
meticulously combing
62,000 square nautical miles,
an area larger than the state of Georgia.
[Eric] We had negative results on day one.
[reporter 10]
Coast Guard expanded search...
[Eric] Day two.
-Hoping to find a mother and son.
-[Eric] Day three.
[reporter 11] There is still no sign
of Linda and Nathan Carman
or their boat, the Chicken Pox.
[Eric] Day four. Day five.
[reporter 12]
They've expanded their search
to an 11,000-mile area off Montauk.
After six days, the search is called off.
[melancholy music playing]
But you can't just stop searching.
That-that... that really upset me.
And we just kind of had a little vigil
to hopefully wait for her.
You know, news that she was found.
[pensive music playing]
[reporter 9] On Sunday afternoon,
a remarkable development.
The US Coast Guard
says a freighter spotted Carman
floating alone in a life raft,
100 nautical miles
south of Martha's Vineyard.
[pensive music continues]
[Coast Guard] Nathan, this is
United States Coast Guard Boston.
[Nathan] Hello? Yes, I hear you.
[Coast Guard] Uh, yes, sir.
I-I... I need to understand what happened.
[Nathan] There was a funny noise
in the engine compartment.
I looked and saw a lot of water.
Boat just dropped out from under my feet.
When I saw the life raft,
I did not see my mom.
Uh, have you found her?
[reporter 13] Of the two boaters missing,
only one came back alive.
[reporter 14] Carman's mother
remains missing and is presumed dead.
I would just like to thank the public, uh,
for their prayers and for their concern
for both my mother and for myself.
I'm... feel healthy.
Uh, emotionally,
I've been through a huge amount.
He's, uh, lost a little weight,
but other than that, he's doing well.
[Clark, present day]
When I went and picked him up,
I got my arms around him,
and I think he put his arms
over my shoulders.
And, uh, I didn't want to let go.
Nathan wanted to go to his house.
He wanted to be by himself,
which did not surprise me.
You could tell,
even though he's not verbalizing it,
the inability to have saved her,
I think, was riding on him immensely.
[reporter 15] For the first time,
we are seeing Nathan's rescue
from the perspective of the crew.
It's an amazing survival story.
[reporter 16] This is pretty remarkable.
He was on the sea for seven days
in a four-person inflatable life raft.
He had some food and water...
Most people would think,
"I'm gonna die out here."
And... and the way that I handled that
was to focus on, uh,
what I had to do in order to survive.
[intense percussive music playing]
After the first day,
I tried to regiment myself.
Food packs said to eat four per day,
and so I was spacing that out
throughout the day.
I was trying to focus
on keeping myself hydrated.
I did spot the Orient Lucky around midday.
[music fades out]
[man 7] As a writer,
I found Nathan's story really intriguing.
I live near the ocean, you know,
live along the coast of New England,
and, you know, for a lot of us
in these coastal communities,
that's sort of like our backyard.
People thought, "This poor young man,
lost his mom at sea."
It was this heroic survival story,
and it was a real feel-good story.
But then the public sentiment
started to shift
from, "Wow, this is an amazing,
miraculous survival story,"
to, "This doesn't seem right."
[reporter] The captain of the cargo ship
that saved Nathan Carman
says the 22-year-old
seemed healthy when he was rescued
and did not appear to be suffering
from dehydration, hypothermia,
or anything else.
[Eric] Circumstances like this
don't happen very frequently.
I mean, seven days in a life raft,
floating at the continental shelf,
that does not happen frequently at all.
In my 26-year career,
this is the first one.
This is a picture of Nathan
after he jumped out of the life raft
into probably 7,000 feet of water,
and he's able to kick and swim
to the life ring that's lowered to him,
and he's able to hold on to it,
and then he's able to get up
onto the accommodation ladder, which...
No way.
[pensive music playing]
[Clark] A very difficult situation.
Um... none of us really know
what he went through.
[Clark, present day] Him being a suspect,
most of that is due
to their lack of ability
to discern his demeanor as autistic.
Because of his autism,
because of his ability to be alone,
Nathan, of any individual that I know,
could have coped with being lost at sea.
And I'm sure he used all his ingenuity
in those eight days.
[foreboding music playing]
[man 8] Prior to Nathan returning,
we actually ex*cuted a warrant
at Nathan's house
to try to determine where they were going,
what their intention was
going on this trip,
um, and really trying to find out
if, uh, Nathan had any intent
to do any harm to himself or his mother.
We searched his house and his vehicle.
We found some concerning documents.
This one's titled, "Why I Am Reluctant
to Cooperate with the Police."
"Emotionally, I'm not sure
that I can bear another interview."
Then he goes on to say, "Philosophically,
the idea of proving one's innocence
repels me."
The next is,
"Generally, the police are a corrupt
and often criminal organization."
It's unusual.
I have to say, in all my experience,
I've never come across anything like that.
It further confirmed our suspicions
that he had
some type of, you know, ill will
upon departing
on that fishing trip with his mother.
Myself and another investigator,
we meet with him.
Very surprisingly,
he agreed to speak to me.
[tape recorder clicks]
[Alfred, on recording]
Take me through what happened.
[Nathan] Sure.
My mom and I went to Stop & Shop,
uh, and I got, uh, something to drink.
We drove to the parking lot
at Ram Point Marina.
We loaded the cooler
from the back of my truck
with the bait in it onto the boat.
[Alfred, present day] Nathan had mentioned
he had bought bait, things of that nature.
He did buy eels.
Uh, we found eels
used for fishing in his truck,
which is, you know,
obviously interesting and concerning to us
because if he intended
to use the eels to go fishing,
why'd he leave the bait in his truck,
not bring it on the boat?
[on recording] What time
did you leave the marina?
[Nathan] I think we left the marina
around midnight.
[Alfred] After you headed out,
you decided to change the plan
and go to the Canyons, correct?
[Nathan] That's correct.
[Alfred] And that's
a much longer trip, right?
[Nathan] Yes, going to Block Canyon
is a much longer trip
than going to the vicinity
of Block Island.
[mysterious music playing]
[Eric] The decision to go
another 60 to 70 miles offshore
is not a place
for an inexperienced boater.
It's not something that you do without
a tremendous amount of preparation.
[Alfred, on recording] When did you notice
that the Chicken Pox was taking on water?
[Nathan] The engine
sounded different to me.
And I opened the hatch
forward of the pilot house,
um, and observed
a large quantity of water in the bilge.
[Alfred] Did you do
a radio distress signal?
[Nathan] No, I did not.
I didn't think we were going to sink.
If you know you're sinking,
you always get on the radio
and say, "Distress."
But I knew that a distress signal
wouldn't reach shore.
[Alfred] But it would reach other boats.
[Nathan] I didn't know if there were
any other boats in range, so I...
[Alfred] You didn't try?
[Eric] If something bad could happen,
why not call for assistance on your radio?
The lack of things that were done
raised questions.
There's something more to the story here.
I knew what had happened
was just a severe accident, and, uh...
I know if Nathan had the ability,
he would have saved his mother.
I'm very grateful
to the friends and family,
uh, who attended in memory of my mom.
[reporter] Are you sad
your aunts didn't show up?
I wish very much
that my whole family
could have come together,
uh, to pray for my mom.
Uh...
But I made sure that they were invited
and that they had an opportunity to come.
[reporter] Have police told you anything
about the status
of the investigation in Rhode Island?
Uh, I... I wish desperately,
uh, that, uh, my mom was rescued.
Uh, I hope that she will be found.
[reporter] Tell us about
your relationship with her.
-Now I'm gonna drive off.
-[reporter] What about your grandfather?
-I need to close my door.
-[reporter] Okay.
Nathan, take care.
No one called me from the family.
None of the three sisters,
none of the cousins.
Did not hear from a soul.
They felt Nathan
had m*rder*d their sister.
[uneasy music playing]
He k*lled our sister, his own mother.
So, yeah, we didn't...
we didn't want anything to do with him.
It was a horrid thing,
just totally horrendous,
what happened to our family.
This whole situation's
just one big Greek tragedy.
[intriguing string music playing]
[Charlene] My parents had four daughters.
Elaine was older.
Valerie was the youngest.
And I was two years younger than Linda.
Linda and I were extremely close.
We hung out a lot,
and I had a lot of fun with her.
[nostalgic music playing]
We were always there for each other.
We all took care of each other.
It was a great childhood.
Linda was fun. She was very athletic.
She was very much like my father.
[laughing] My father was...
he was hardheaded.
And Linda was also hardheaded.
She had 100% of the Greek personality.
[laughing]
-[pleasant music playing]
-[people laughing, cheering]
[man 1] John Chakalos was my uncle.
He was pretty much a force of nature.
He was a guy that...
He... he was... he was bigger than life.
Worked hard his whole life.
He started different businesses,
developed a lot of properties,
built nursing homes, assisted living.
After that,
it was one right after the other.
[Charlene] As we got older,
we got a large house in New Hampshire.
It was grand.
It was 20,000 square feet.
We had an indoor, huge swimming pool.
[Chuck] One summer,
he had elephants there.
It was out of this world.
[Charlene] Really, it was at that point
that I was like,
"Wow, you know, we have money."
[woman 3] Linda was my best friend.
I knew her for over 30 years.
We... talked about everything.
I heard so much
about her background over time.
All the relationships
were very dysfunctional,
and her father was extremely controlling.
So she said,
"I'm going to move to California."
And he said, "Well, if you do,
then I'm disowning you."
She goes, "Okay." And she went.
She was tough.
When I met her,
she was in the National Guard,
and she has three sisters back home
that are the complete opposite.
And here's Linda, and she just broke away.
[Clark] I met Linda out in California.
She was happy most of the time,
except when dealing with family.
Took us a while, but we got married.
Her father, John,
had promised if we moved back,
he would develop
a Dunkin' Donuts franchise for us.
When we got back there, he reneged.
So she ended up
having to work for her father,
which was not a good situation
between those two.
That's how he operated.
[uneasy music playing]
He liked to control lives,
especially his daughters'.
All four of them.
He liked to control everything.
Linda's fought with her father
her whole life.
Back and forth, back and forth.
Because they were a lot alike.
[Clark] John was very volatile.
I had never experienced
violence like that in a family situation.
He would, uh...
physically push or, or slap or...
To his wife, to his daughters.
That was a constant
in the Chakalos family.
Arguments, yeah. Occasional fist fights.
Which, you know,
is not normal in most families,
but hey, they weren't k*lling each other.
None of them went to the hospital.
[ominous music playing]
[police officer]
Friday, December 20, 2013, 1335 hours.
Central District Major Crime
is at the scene
of the John Chakalos residence.
[reporter] It is a dark holiday season.
Early Friday morning
in Windsor, Connecticut,
87-year-old John Chakalos was found dead
from an apparent g*nsh*t wound
to the head.
Investigators are calling it a homicide.
[Clark] Elaine was the eldest.
Walked in and found him, um,
literally ex*cuted in his bed.
[man 3] I'm gonna tell you,
it's a horror show.
It's definitely a horror show.
The wounds were so severe
that you can almost barely
make out what could have caused it.
You could tell
there was no struggle that went on.
It was basically
the victim lying in the bed,
g*nshots were to the head.
[Chuck] The top of his head was blown off,
and his brain scattered all over
the back of the headboard on the wall.
It was... it was beyond belief.
It was beyond belief
that the man that I knew my whole life,
that was larger than life,
and that was... [clears throat]
That he was actually dead.
[Charlene] It was just terrible.
My father always
did everything for the family.
My dad always said,
"Without family, you have nothing."
And now he was gone.
[Chuck] And then everybody
was trying to figure out, "Who did it?"
[detective] Sit over there
and we'll look through this.
Thank you for coming up.
Yeah.
[Linda Gam] She told me
what she thought happened.
She said, um, "I definitely think
that it was a Mob hit."
[mysterious music playing]
[Mark] One avenue was,
because he was in construction,
construction is sometimes
linked to organized crime,
and he dealt with some
pretty shady characters.
[Charlene] My dad was pretty hardheaded.
He was a, you know, shrewd businessman.
When you're a self-made millionaire,
or whatever you want to call my dad,
you know,
I'm sure he's stepped on a lot of toes.
[music intensifies]
[Mark] We're getting things
back from the lab, and we're verifying
that the m*rder weapon
was a large-caliber weapon.
[camera shutter clicking]
Usually if it's someone
that's doing a hit,
it's a smaller-caliber weapon.
They don't want to make a lot of noise.
Large-caliber weapon makes a lot of noise.
And also, they don't usually
come to someone's house.
Usually, you disappear.
[intriguing music playing]
Now we're verifying that this crime
that we believe is a break-in,
it's not a break-in
for the purposes of taking anything.
It's a break-in
for purposes of doing harm to John.
Now we come to, "Who else?"
Who else has intimate details of him?
His family.
[young Charlene] Daddy, I need some money!
-[people laughing]
-Daddy!
[Charlene, present day]
My dad had a living trust,
so we, the four of us, would get
the same amount of money each month.
Each girl was receiving, I would say,
approximately $25,000 a month,
notwithstanding what they would inherit
if he should pass away.
[somber music playing]
[Chuck] After the funeral,
we all went to Valerie and Larry's house
in West Hartford after that,
and they had cops outside
just in case anybody was gonna come,
you know, and attack the family.
And I'm sitting at the dinner table,
and we're drinking coffee,
all the food's gone, and I'm sitting there
looking out the window,
and I go,
"You know, these cops are sitting outside
"trying to protect us
from somebody out there," but I said,
"Whoever k*lled him is probably
sitting in this room right now."
[detective] You know, and that's when
Nathan became a very prominent person,
because he was the last to see him
the night before.
How's Nathan doing?
-Very upset.
-Yeah.
Very like it's not real.
[Scott] Mm-hmm.
There's no way Nathan
would ever do that to his grandfather.
I mean, he adored his grandfather.
And they both loved each other.
I mean, you could see it from day one.
[tender music playing]
Nathan was the firstborn grandson
of a Greek dynasty, if you will.
[baby Nathan fussing]
You don't like it that way.
How come? Oh my!
-[Linda Carman] Yeah, sometimes he does.
-[John's wife] Stand up, John.
[Clark] From the beginning,
Nathan was number one in Grandpa's eyes.
He doted on Nathan his whole life,
and also interfered his whole life.
[indistinct chattering]
-[John] Whack it hard.
-[John's wife] I'll find a stick.
-[John] Okay, watch it.
-[Linda Carman] It's hit!
-Hit him in the nose.
-That thing's...
That's the problem.
Yeah.
[Linda Carman] There you go, Nathan!
Keep going!
He was first diagnosed with autism
when he was about four or five.
[Linda Carman] Nathan, say hi!
Hi!
[Clark] We initially had testing done
'cause we didn't know what it really was.
It was not in the mainstream
the way it is today.
[Linda Carman] Proud of you.
-[Charlene] Good job.
-[Linda Carman] Good job.
[instructor] Right out there
with Rachel. Good.
[Clark] Nathan loved horses
since the first time he got on one.
Eventually, Linda bought him Cruise.
He fell in love with that horse.
It became his best friend
because he didn't really
have any other friends.
[Charlene] It did hurt Linda
Nathan didn't have friends,
and that he was different.
[Clark] Psychiatrists helped to an extent,
but lots of times,
there was interference from the family.
[Charlene] Everyone was perfect
in my dad's eyes,
and, uh, Nathan was fine.
"Oh, he'll be fine. He'll be fine."
[Linda Gam] John was old school.
John did not understand
why Nathan needed help.
And they used
to get in arguments about it.
"Why do you need to take him there?
Why do you need to do this?"
[Linda Carman] Don't... don't even start.
Don't even... You weren't invited.
You weren't invited. You weren't invited.
[Linda Gam] She didn't want him
to have that much influence over Nathan.
But as time went on,
that's exactly what happened.
What about with you and your dad?
Any issues with him?
No. And see, once in a while
things would come up.
I'd tell him, "I'm not gonna have
this conversation with you."
"I will have it with an attorney
or a therapist in the room."
"I'm not gonna discuss these things
one-on-one because I know where it goes."
"We get angry, and one of us storms out."
You know?
And, of course, nothing gets accomplished.
He just seemed like a guy
who didn't like no for an answer.
-Right. Yeah.
-Or get his way. You know?
Meaning good, but, I mean...
His heart was always in the right place.
It was the way he went about it.
[Lisa] There had been some question
as to Linda's whereabouts
during the window of the time
that the homicide would have occurred.
You mentioned, um, you had a conversation
with your dad the night, uh, before.
[Linda] Mm-hmm.
Uh, so going on that, I mean,
the best you can, in your own words,
the last time you talked to him,
and try to, you know, work back to the...
Was it a couple of days in between?
No, it was... Matter of fact, I can...
I don't know if I called
on my cell phone or my house phone.
Um...
It was... it was pretty much a daily thing.
[Scott] Okay.
[Lisa] We were able
to get location history
from various cell phone providers.
Linda was exactly
where she told police that she was.
Linda could not have k*lled John.
Have a seat.
Nathan.
-Thanks for coming in.
-Want a water or something?
Yes, please.
Right here.
-How are you?
-All right.
Good.
[Mark] When he came in our lobby,
we get to talking,
he introduces himself, I introduce myself,
and then he start to kind of...
break down and cry,
and get kind of a little out of control.
And then he says, he blurts out,
"How can I calm down
when I just found out
my grandfather got his head blown off?"
And the mother
finally got to calm him down,
but that statement kind of struck me
because who of our investigative team
let that out?
No one ever let that out.
When you received the phone call,
did she share the manner of death
in which your grandfather passed?
I still don't know the manner of death
from which my grandfather passed.
Obviously, from the circumstances,
that the way you seem to be treating this,
it's either a m*rder or suicide
is what I deduce.
Uh, but I know
that you're calling it suspicious,
because that's what Valerie said.
Uh, but no, she just said that he passed,
as far as I recall.
[Scott] I've been interviewing people
for my entire career,
and always felt I was pretty good at it.
You look for emotion,
and you look for things
that you know you have the right person,
type of thing.
And with Nathan, he didn't get...
You didn't get the normal reads.
Did you ever... Did he ever ask you
to get money out of the drawer...?
Yes, uh... when I... when I moved.
He's the only person I ever knew
who would yell at me
for not asking for money.
He... [stammering]
He was very generous...
[Mark] The hair
on the back of my neck raised.
In other words,
my meter was going off that this guy's...
He... he may be a player in this.
His affect isn't right.
And throughout all
of whatever challenges he has,
through autism or whatever,
his affect isn't right.
[woman 4] Right off the bat, there should
not have been an interrogation.
He never should have been
in that room to begin with
because people on the autism spectrum
are frequently misinterpreted.
Nathan was talking
in very, very stilted terms,
and he responded in a way
that was not only robotic,
but, because he was giving
detail after detail,
almost seemed cold and calculating.
That, in the eyes of some law enforcement,
may be, if you will,
a tell that they're guilty.
I really don't like
speaking against my mom.
I don't think that she would ever
have anything to do
with whatever happened to my grandfather.
Uh, but she did tell me on one occasion,
I don't think she used
the explicit word "hate,"
uh, but said some things.
I asked, "Does that mean you hate him?"
And she clearly indicated yes.
Oh sh*t.
But I... I really don't like
speaking against my mom.
-I just... I... I don't...
-I understand.
I just don't think
that she would do anything.
But they had a strained relationship.
They had questioned me about my movements,
what I did, my relationship with him,
then they'd throw in
a question about Nathan.
Then they would ask me
about John's business associates.
"Was he doing this? Was he doing that?"
And then they'd throw in,
"What about Nathan? Where was he?"
"What was he..."
They always kept going back to him.
They'd ask three questions,
and the fourth one would be about Nathan.
I'm going to be honest.
I... I have a problem with you.
I have a problem. Let me explain.
I have... My problem,
and I'm not speaking
on behalf of detective here.
My problem
is that you were the last one
to see your grandfather.
And that bothers me.
As an investigator, that bothers me.
That bothers me because I don't have anyone
else who was with your grandfather...
-But you.
-[Nathan] Mm-hmm.
Well, you're... you're misunder...
That is incorrect.
I... I saw my grandfather.
We went to dinner. We had a good time.
We got back.
I... I left 8:00, 8:30, somewhere in there.
Um, I expected to be hearing...
To be calling the next day
to say how we did fishing.
Instead, when we got back from fishing,
uh, Joy called,
and so we found out he was dead.
[Chuck] According to Nathan,
he had dinner with my uncle.
He goes, "They had dinner.
They didn't get into any arguments."
"They went their separate ways."
And then he said he met with his mother
to, uh, go on a cod fishing trip
at three o'clock in the morning.
[Scott] But there's a problem.
There's about an hour
that he's unaccounted for, uh...
around the time that we think
maybe the homicide happened.
[Lisa] Nathan was supposed
to be meeting Linda that night,
and he was late.
[prosecutor] Well, why were you
over an hour late
to... to get to your mom?
I don't think I left my apartment
until after 3:00.
I'm not positive
what time I left my apartment.
Um, but I definitely left it very late...
So as we're going through it,
some of his story didn't add up.
[Nathan] If I'd taken the exit
on the south side of Hartford,
I'd have gone over the Connecticut River,
gotten off the first exit,
uh, and basically been at the parking lot
where my mom and I were supposed to meet.
But I ended up getting off the wrong exit,
and then get turned around.
Uh, and then I mistakenly took the exit
on the north side of Hartford
to go over the Connecticut River.
And then I... realized pretty quickly
that I was, uh, turned around.
[Mark] He said he got lost.
Who gets lost going to their own spot
where they're telling you where to go?
I don't know.
He got lost.
It's, you know,
three o'clock in the morning,
and there's not too many ways to get lost.
His story is that
he got lost off the highway.
I'm not really sure
what happened with all that,
but it doesn't give him much of an alibi.
[prosecutor] And your testimony is
your mother's in an empty parking lot
at three o'clock in the morning,
and you didn't call
to tell her you're going to be late?
I know that I was rushing,
trying to get there on time.
[prosecutor] She called you
four or five times during that hour,
didn't she?
I can't testify to that.
I don't refute that either.
The Windsor Police Department,
their narrative, you know...
I have to put on the reading glasses.
This is troubling.
The neighbor said she heard g*nshots
at 2:00 in the morning.
And we can account for Nathan
at two o'clock in the morning.
Meaning Nathan Carman
did not k*ll John Chakalos.
At 2:00 a.m.,
Nathan would have been at his apartment,
and that is corroborated
by surveillance video.
If the loud bang that the neighbor heard
was, in fact, a g*nsh*t,
and she didn't have the time wrong,
then Nathan has an alibi.
[Mark] I suggested to put the family
through some polygraphs.
It was explained,
we don't use polygraphs in a court of law.
Law enforcement,
we use it to clear people,
which the family agreed to do.
But who didn't take the polygraph?
Nathan.
Nathan wouldn't take the polygraph.
[dramatic music playing]
There was some pushback
from Nathan's mother,
but she ended up taking it.
We talked to her for about an hour, and...
Do you ever get that sense
that someone wanted to tell you something?
That's how I had...
She wanted to say something,
but she never did.
[Chuck] When I took the polygraph,
they asked me,
"Did you m*rder John Chakalos?"
I said, "No."
They go, "Do you know
who m*rder*d John Chakalos?" I said, "No."
And then Linda took it.
She took it a few times.
I think she failed it.
The second time she took it,
it was inconclusive.
When they get to the question of,
"Do you know who m*rder*d John Chakalos?"
I... I don't think
she could pass that question.
After the m*rder, Charlene and I talked.
She didn't say, "I think Nathan did it."
What she said to me was interesting
because she said,
"My sister Linda knows more
than what... what she's saying."
That's what she picked up on.
[Charlene] My sisters decided
to put up billboards for my dad's m*rder
at the same area of the highway
that both Nathan and Linda
would be traveling in all the time,
for Linda and Nathan
to constantly see my dad's face,
to pressure Linda and Nathan
to finally, you know,
tell us or the police,
you know, that Nathan had k*lled my dad.
[Linda Gam] If Linda really thought
that Nathan k*lled John,
I would have heard something
in her demeanor,
even if she didn't say it to me.
Like there's more of something.
"There's more that you're not telling me"
type of feeling.
I didn't get any of that from her.
[somber music playing]
[Evan] Linda was very protective
over Nathan,
and I think
she'd protect him at all costs.
It makes you wonder if at that point,
Linda could have been
trying to make amends
for how she handled Nathan
when he was a teenager.
Their relationship was very rough,
and there was a lot of turmoil there.
[Clark] When Nathan was a teenager,
his horse, Cruise, passed away.
That was the biggest loss for Nathan.
Confided in the horse,
and really developed
a relationship with him.
And then, to all of a sudden lose that...
I think Nathan lost something too.
He wanted to be alone.
Linda had this 32-foot camper,
so he would stay in there,
come in for meals.
And Nathan progressively, uh...
stayed in the camper longer and longer,
and, uh, became worse.
He took apart the microwave,
and he was trying to reassemble it.
He was not coming out,
not really talking to anybody.
He actually ended up urinating in bottles.
He was going downhill, mentally.
[Chuck] One member of the family told me
that he was being bullied by another kid,
and that he pulled a knife on the kid.
At that point, I was thinking to myself
that he might hurt himself.
[Clark] We did research,
Linda did most of it,
as to these camps
that help individuals
that have, uh, obsessive behavior.
[dark music playing]
[Clark] The camp sent two men
to take Nathan in the middle of the night.
He did not want to go.
He was very anxious,
pleaded with us,
yelling, screaming.
It was terrible. Terrible.
But we had to let him go,
and so they physically took him to Utah.
[eerie music playing]
[Evan] This is an 11-page letter
that Nathan had written to his priest.
"The spread between
my mother and I widened,
to equal the spread
between heaven and hell."
"The way some parents are committed
to having their children
grow up to be doctors or lawyers,
my mother's dream
is to have a nonverbal autistic child,
drooling in her living room,
"whose diapers she can change
until she grows old."
"My mother's pursuit of that dream,
and her bullying,
characterized my childhood."
[Clark] When he came home,
he had, uh, had a breakdown, really.
He was having some problems
about the Church,
the devil.
Our decision was made for us, really,
that something had to be done.
We took him
to Middlesex Hospital in Middletown.
They held him on a psych hold.
Nathan was supposed to be alone,
getting therapy,
yet John would be there every day.
He even brought him a newspaper every day.
He brought pizza to him,
which would really annoy Linda.
We met as a family,
John, myself, and Linda,
to discuss Nathan.
That did not go real well.
He wanted to take him out,
and that was it.
John said he was gonna cut the money.
Linda said she didn't want the money.
He came at her.
Started to slap her.
Linda wanted him to be institutionalized.
John wasn't having it.
[Charlene] My dad,
I don't think, wanted to accept
that Nathan was terribly sick.
Truthfully, mental illness
ran in the family.
Every generation, it was passed down.
This is your Aunt Kiki again.
Want me to sing you a Greek song?
Tiki tiki taki doo
Doki doki diki dee, daffy doh...
[Charlene] My father had a twin sister.
She had depression
or some type of, uh, mental illness.
[somber music playing]
[Chuck] My mother would sleep all day
during the day.
Didn't want me to go to school.
I used to walk to the elementary school,
and I used to say to her,
"Mom, I have to go to school."
"No, stay here with me."
And she would cry, and she would...
So, she was suffering from bad depression,
and they finally, you know,
through doctors and everything,
they said, "Look, she needs
to go into the hospital."
Back then,
they gave people shock treatments
and really fried 'em.
I remember, when I was talking to John,
he said, "What they did
to my sister was deplorable."
[Charlene] Back then,
they were very barbaric,
and so that must have
really been tough on my dad
to have his twin sister,
you know, hospitalized,
you know, for a mental illness.
Even though things have changed,
I think he still
kept that picture in his mind.
That's why he was resisting
Nathan going into treatment.
[music fades to silence]
Hey, big guy.
I guess if you're watching this,
you're watching this.
You haven't been in this house,
uh, not even to wash your hands
after fishing.
This house is very important to me,
has a lot of memories,
has a lot of history,
and I feel it really needs
to stay in the family
with somebody who does
and will cherish it as much as I do.
Um, I'm leaving the house in Middletown
to, uh, Michael.
Grandpa is leaving you
more than enough assets,
and you are the sole inheritor of my trust
and everything that's in there.
So, you have more than enough.
I love you with all my heart,
and that's my decision.
[somber music playing]
[Chuck] He wasn't talking
to his mother or his father,
and my Uncle John shows up,
and he has Nathan with him.
They're standing at the door,
and I open up the door,
he comes in and goes, "I need you
to do something for me," you know.
I go, "Okay."
And, uh, he goes,
"Nathan needs to live here."
Nathan, he was getting money from John.
I would probably say
around $100,000 a year.
John said to him, "You're gonna
go to college full-time now,
and you're gonna get a part-time job,
or," he goes, "it's over."
"No more funding."
"This is what you have to do,
and that's gonna be the end of it."
But Nathan, he wouldn't do it.
He didn't have the discipline.
He started staying up late at night.
Two, three o'clock in the morning,
and I'd hear him pacing around up there.
And you could tell
that he needed medication
because he'd become very agitated.
But Nathan goes, "I refuse
to take any medication whatsoever."
"I'm not going to a therapist."
"I'm not going to a psychiatrist."
And he goes, "My mother
thinks I belong in the nuthouse,"
and blah, blah, blah,
and he goes, "I had enough."
And he took off out the door
in the middle of a snowstorm,
running down the road.
[Elizabeth] If someone
has a major diagnosis
of autism spectrum disorder,
but they refuse to accept the fact
that they have
a serious mental illness as well,
that can be catastrophic,
often with deadly consequences.
[reporter] Developing news.
We now know police
have ex*cuted a search warrant
at the home of Nathan Carman.
[foreboding music playing]
[Lisa] Very shortly before the homicide,
Nathan purchased the weapon out of state,
with an out-of-state driver's license.
[prosecutor] Exhibit 23,
the invoice from Shooters Outpost.
Did you purchase this SIG Sauer
semiautomatic as*ault weapon
on November 11, 2013?
I'm going to plead the Fifth
in response to that question.
[Lisa] He refused
to answer questions about it,
he refused to produce the weapon,
and at this juncture,
law enforcement, to my knowledge,
has no idea where that weapon is.
And not only that,
but the ammunition used in that weapon
matched what was recovered
from the crime scene
of John Chakalos's homicide.
[Martin] What boils my blood
is the fact that
they're making
a lot of assumptions of fact.
It's not even conjecture!
It could have been 600 different g*ns
that had that same shell.
600 types of g*ns.
[Lisa] The one thing that definitely
stuck out to me as an investigator
was this was a weapon, um,
that he lied about owning and possessing.
Going back to one of the first interviews,
you... you had no g*ns.
You mentioned something about...
an air g*n or something like that?
I-I had a, uh... I had
a... uh, an air r*fle.
Any other purchases
of a firearm of any type?
No.
If it wasn't him,
and it wasn't the weapon that he purchased
that was used
as the m*rder weapon for Chakalos,
he was given ample opportunity
to remedy that lie.
You know, to correct that deception.
[prosecutor]
At the Windsor police station,
after your grandfather is dead,
did you lie to the Windsor police?
[tense music playing]
It's not a complicated question, Nathan.
With respect to that question, uh...
uh, if you want to be more specific,
uh, then I'll answer.
-Otherwise, I invoke my Fifth Amendment...
-[prosecutor] I'll give you paper.
List all the lies
that you made to the Windsor police.
Would that be easier, to be specific?
How often did you lie
to the Windsor Police Department?
There was one, inaccura... I... I...
I-I... I'm pleading the Fifth.
[Chuck] Initially, I defended Nathan
when police questioned me
because they homed in on him right away.
They go, "Do you think
he had anything to do with it?"
They kept saying that to me,
and I go, "I don't think so."
I go, "'Cause why?
I mean, how would he be better off?"
I came to find out later that
he got money from an insurance policy.
As soon as he gave a death certificate,
he received a substantial amount of money
that didn't have to go through a probate.
[man 9] I think one of the biggest
pieces of evidence in this case is
he had sent a memo
to his grandfather's
trust and estates attorney,
prior to his grandfather's death,
with very specific questions.
Unbelievably specific questions,
and many of them.
It essentially came down to,
you know, who has to die first, and when,
in order for me to inherit the money?
I think this was a m*rder,
with one motive.
It's so that Nathan Carman can have money.
[pensive music playing]
[David] They want to attribute
a money motive to Nathan
for the death of John Chakalos,
but they don't really go into the fact
that Nathan Carman's grandfather,
um, was supporting Nathan,
uh, bought him a truck,
paid his rent, gave him money,
um, took care of everything,
took care of school.
Who was the person that least
benefited from John Chakalos's death?
Nathan Carman.
Least benefited.
I still to this day believe him.
There was no involvement.
He was never charged, nor was he arrested.
We never were able
to get an arrest warrant signed.
There was one submitted.
The assistant chief state attorney,
uh, denied it.
People had been through a trial
and put on death row
for less evidence
than what they had on Nathan,
and I just thought
that was just... just insane.
You know, why wasn't he even arrested?
[haunting music playing]
[Lisa] After the Chakalos homicide,
a priest at the parish
at which the Chakalos family attended,
he was informed by his assistant
that, um, Nathan Carman and Linda Carman
were outside in the church.
The Father went out,
and he found Nathan kneeling on the altar
with his hands outstretched,
praying to God.
Linda was sitting
in the back of the church, watching.
This went on for about five hours.
At one point, the Father approached behind
and somewhat close enough
to hear what Nathan was saying.
Nathan was begging for forgiveness.
He was begging God for forgiveness.
-[girl screaming]
-[young Nathan] You let him get away!
[Linda Carman] Nathan, we hurt him.
No, Hayley, we hurt him.
-We hurt him.
-[Charlene] What'd he do?
-We're going to let him go.
-We can't let him get away!
Yeah, but we hurt him.
[Charlene] You know what, Nathan?
It's okay.
You know what, Nathan? The lizard's okay...
[Linda Gam] Linda was a wonderful mom.
From the moment Nathan was born,
Linda was trying to do the best for him.
That's how her life was,
just trying to help her son.
[gentle piano music playing]
She would see something in Nathan
and then search and read about it,
read about it, read about it,
find a specialist, constantly.
Nathan loved his mom.
They had a very special relationship.
She tried to be with him
as much as she could.
She was trying to help.
She didn't want Nathan to go through
what she did when she was growing up.
All the negativity,
all the yelling in the house,
the physicality.
But as he got older,
he just backed out of it. He backed away.
[pensive music playing]
[Linda Gam] She wanted to have
a better relationship with Nathan,
and I think that's why
they would go out fishing.
[Linda Carman] Nice.
[Linda Gam] She didn't really care
for fishing. Didn't care about it.
She was just trying
whatever she could find
that would connect them.
[Linda Carman] You measure him
in the middle?
-[Nathan] He's fat.
-[Linda Carman] Yeah, he is fat.
Bye-bye.
[Linda Gam] She loved him.
I mean, really loved him.
[Clark] After John's death, Nathan, um...
I can't say he was more of a loner.
He was himself,
in that he, uh,
had bought property in Vermont.
[intriguing music playing]
He, uh, was studying
and learning how to do all the plumbing.
He did the remodeling inside.
He did it all on... on his own.
[Alfred] It was this massive, you know,
house that was under construction.
Ripped down to the studs.
Kind of surprising
anyone would live there.
[Clark] Because the family
was entirely against him
and felt that
he was the one that had m*rder*d John,
I believe he wanted to, um,
I guess immerse himself into something,
and concentrate
on building his property up.
He was trying to get in the business.
[Chuck] In his mind,
he was gonna be a wealthy man,
he was gonna be a developer
building big, you know,
multi-floor mansions and skyscrapers
and whatever.
And that wasn't gonna happen.
Before I moved to Florida,
I stopped at Linda's house,
and I said to her, "Look, Linda",
"everybody knows that the alibi
that Nathan gave is not true."
"No one believes that story."
And she goes, "He's my son."
She goes,
"I'm his mother. He's my only child."
And she was very shaken up by it.
I mean, she was in tears.
And she kept saying,
"He's my son. He's my son."
I mean...
It took... you could physically see
that it was taking a toll on her.
You know, I think in my mind,
I think that within the next month or two,
she was getting ready to fold up.
And I said, "And you have to be worried,
because you're a loose end."
[foreboding music playing]
Before I left, I said, "You better never
go out on that boat again with that kid,
because if you do, he's gonna be
the only one coming back."
"Something's gonna happen
to you out there,
and that's gonna be the end of you."
And she said to me, she goes,
"You're not the only one
that's said that to me."
And that was the last time
I ever... ever saw her.
[eerie music playing]
[Evan] The ocean is vast.
The ocean is enormous.
And when you talk about the ocean
as being a crime scene,
it just gets deeper and deeper and deeper.
[prosecutor] When did you notice
that the Chicken Pox was taking on water?
Around midday, on September 18th.
The engine sounded different to me.
Uh, and therefore,
I wanted to check the engine.
And I opened the hatch
forward of the pilot house,
um, and observed
a large quantity of water in the bilge.
[prosecutor] And then what did you do?
[Nathan] Then I asked my mom
to bring in the fishing lines.
[prosecutor] You didn't tell your mom
you had two feet of water in the boat?
No, I thought she would panic
if I told her that.
[prosecutor] So you got
two feet of water in the boat.
Rather than tell your mom
to put on a life jacket,
you told her
to bring in the fishing lines.
That's your testimony?
I asked my mom
to bring in the fishing lines.
[prosecutor] Bringing in fishing lines
was more important at that moment
than putting on a life jacket?
I-I've asked myself,
did I do the right thing?
Uh, I know at the time,
what I was thinking
was... I-I need...
One, the lines need to come in.
Two, I need to keep my mom occupied
while I'm trying to fix the problem.
I didn't think the boat was going to sink.
[Eric] Boats don't do that.
Boats don't just drop out from under you,
sink bow first, the way he described it,
and disappear into the abyss of the ocean.
[ominous music playing]
-[reporters clamoring]
-[camera shutters clicking]
[reporter 1] Opening statements took place
in a Providence courtroom
in the trial of Nathan Carman.
[reporter 2] An insurance company
is suing Carman,
who filed an insurance claim for his boat
that sunk off the coast of Point Judith
back in 2016.
What surprises me the most, to this day,
and it's surprised me
since the beginning of this,
is why did he file an insurance claim?
If he hadn't filed a claim,
he was gonna be a free man.
So, I believe the insurance company
was getting ready to pay the claim.
And this is when we spoke
with people at Ram Point Marina.
That day, he had spent
the entire day working on the boat,
the day he went offshore with his mother.
There was a gentleman
that was sitting on the dock that day.
I didn't see any fishing poles.
I didn't even see him with food.
It kind of caught my eye
when I saw him leaning over the back
and drilling two holes.
[Liam] He saw Nathan Carman,
and he's bending over
and reaching to the back of the boat
with a drill in his hand
that had a hole saw bit on it.
He removed the trim tabs
from the boat that day.
Trim tabs are metal flaps
that are affixed to the stern of the boat.
By taking the trim tabs off,
he created a situation
where there were holes.
Boaters work on their boats all the time.
They do things to them
that probably shouldn't be done.
They drill holes, they fill 'em...
If you were gonna plan
something like this, right?
And you were gonna
deal with the trim tabs,
would you do that
where there's two or three or four people
watching you do this?
Or would you do it
in the middle of the night?
I think he wanted to be seen
making these "repairs,"
taking these trim tabs off.
This gave him a reason
for why the boat sank.
A guy whose scheme
is to k*ll his grandfather,
wait three, three and a half years,
k*ll his mother,
then presents a claim for $85,000.
You'd have to be moronic to do that.
[reporter 3] Nathan Carman
breaking his silence
after days of testimony in his civil trial
against the insurance company
for his sunken boat, the Chicken Pox.
Firstly, we don't know
what caused the boat to sink.
Secondly, this isn't about money.
I almost feel like
I have a responsibility to my mom
to make sure that the truth comes out.
And Mr. Farrell and the insurers
BoatUS made claims against me
that are so tremendous,
I don't feel like
I can walk away from them.
That's all I have to say.
[reporter 4] Nathan Carman
will not receive the insurance money
for his boat, the Chicken Pox.
[reporter 5] A federal judge has
determined Nathan Carman's boat sank
either directly or indirectly
because of his faulty repairs.
[reporter 6] It all came down
to how he repaired four holes he made
the morning of the boat's last voyage.
[reporters clamoring]
[Chuck] That insurance company had
the resources that the police didn't have,
and that was his downfall.
Once the insurance company
fought the claim
and he lost that... that court case,
they handed over all the information,
and then the investigation
clicked up four or five notches.
Now the feds are involved.
[dramatic music playing]
[reporter 7] 28-year-old Nathan Carman
has been arrested for the m*rder
of his mother, Linda Carman.
According to the unsealed indictment,
Nathan allegedly
k*lled his mother on the high seas
and sunk his own boat.
[reporter 8] The indictment
even goes so far as to say
he m*rder*d his own grandfather too.
All of this allegedly over inheritance.
Nathan was charged
with m*rder on the high seas.
I felt relief because I knew
that was a weight off of my family.
We wanted to make sure
Nathan was punished,
that he was found guilty,
and he would never be allowed
to do anything like this again.
[Lisa] After a six-year FBI investigation,
Nathan was charged in federal court
with engaging in a long-term,
very calculated scheme
to ensure that he would be the beneficiary
of the wealth of his grandfather.
-[man] Nathan, did you k*ll your mother?
-[Nathan] Not guilty!
[Martin] The problem is
there was no scheme.
There never was a scheme.
I have a godson
the same exact age as Nathan
who has the same autistic stressors
that Nathan has.
Nathan Carman. We're here to see him.
Whatever I have to do
within the bounds of law,
I am gonna do.
I had a double bypass
a year and a half ago.
My doctor says, "Don't get involved."
[door buzzes]
I said to my doctor,
"If I gotta die in the courtroom
with this case,
and getting this kid
the justice he deserves,
so be it."
[prosecutor] You say that
you were at sea in this life raft
for approximately seven days
after the boat sank?
Is that correct?
Yes, I was at sea in the life raft
for seven days after the boat sank.
[eerie music playing]
[Eric] There's no way
that he was in that life raft
for the period of time that he said
that he was in that life raft.
And what stands out to me in this picture
is that Nathan is gripping onto the rail
on both sides of the ladder.
And I can't help but wonder,
after seven days in a life raft,
how he's able to do that.
Your body is just
not going to be able to manage
the ebb and flow and the bouncing
and the lack of vision on the horizon.
Physiologically, there's no way he would
have been able to move like he's moving.
[Lisa] In all likelihood,
he would not have been able to swim
and climb those stairs without assistance
because he would not have been
on his feet for seven days.
He would not have been using
those muscles.
He would not have had the stamina.
-[man] What's up?
-[David] Here he is.
-Thanks for coming. David Sullivan.
-Absolutely. Nice to meet you.
[man] I did see that the expert said
his dexterity was too great
to have been at sea for seven days.
Again, I'm gonna disagree.
In that situation, when you know
that's your potential rescue,
possibly your only rescue,
uh, you know,
your adrenaline's gonna kick up,
no matter how exhausted you are.
And I've been in those situations where,
extreme heat conditions in Iraq,
guys are dehydrated.
They're exhausted.
And when we had an extract
under a contact,
you saw the guys almost pop out
of that exhaustion, that dehydration,
and go into action.
[prosecutor] What did you have
in the emergency ditch bag?
I remember there being, uh,
Datrex emergency food rations.
I remember there being a water maker,
a hand held emergency water maker.
[Liam] He's got, in his life raft,
a machine, a device that he had purchased,
that would turn salt water
into drinkable water.
I have never known anyone,
in my experience,
on a recreational boat, on a 30-foot boat,
that has an emergency water maker.
What I took away from reading
the account of the boat sinking,
is that, uh, on the one hand,
you had... you had Nathan's systematizing,
that trait of autism,
to have structure and planning,
um, that was on display in the fact
that Nathan thought through
everything he would need
in a survival raft,
and he had that on a boat
that didn't require it.
Autistic people like me,
and by extension, people like him,
those traits
to have structure and planning
are part of our autism.
But, you know, people tend
to think we're up to something,
we're tricky, we're devious,
or we're just dummies.
At a certain time,
so after I had what I called lunch,
I was having "brunch,"
'cause the... the life raft...
uh... in... the... surviv... the, uh...
food packs said to eat four per day,
and so I was spacing that out
throughout the day.
I did spot the Orient Lucky around midday,
uh, when I, uh, stood up in the life raft
and looked around.
Science tells us that there is no way,
based on the narrative that he told us,
that he could have sank
at the time he sank,
where he sank, even roughly, even loosely,
and end up where he ended up
and where he was recovered at sea.
[suspenseful music playing]
[Liam] The Coast Guard can figure out
how something will drift,
based on the size of the vessel,
the weight of the vessel.
[Eric] Drift analysis,
it's a refined science.
Wind, current, sea temperature.
All of those factor in,
and all of those are monitored
multiple times a day
at various points throughout the ocean.
There's buoys in the water.
There are, um, you know,
sensors on satellites.
The drift analysis tells us
that the pattern of drift
would have taken him east to west...
which would have put Nathan
somewhere... down here.
But definitely not over here.
[music stops]
He would have been
80 miles in the opposite direction
if he had sunk in the Block Canyon.
[Martin] Their drift analysis expert
said he should have been
heading toward New Jersey
instead of where he claimed he ended up.
Have you had a chance to look at that?
I did.
With the drift analysis,
the reason I put very little weight is,
what's the crosscurrent?
What are the winds doing?
What's the current underneath the surface?
There's so many variables
that could refute
I believe it was one buoy
that they were pulling this data.
Ultimately, it's an imprecise science.
Yeah, in legal terms,
we like to refer to that as junk science.
I wouldn't put this
in the bucket of junk science.
These instruments out there
are research-grade.
They're relied upon very heavily
for, you know,
some of the world's
leading climate research.
And, you know,
one of the sort of rules of thumb
about data within ocean science,
or science in general,
is that data doesn't lie.
[ominous music playing]
[Nathan] When I first spotted
the Orient Lucky,
I wasn't sure that it was a ship,
uh, because all I saw was...
Looked like a white mass
standing up on the horizon.
Uh, and I... my first thought
was actually rogue wave,
but then I realized
that it was too narrow.
Um, and then I...
So I actually went back
into the life raft,
took a second for myself,
and then popped back out
just to make sure I'm really seeing this.
I think that Nathan Carman knew that
that ship was coming out of Providence,
and it was going on that course
for an extended period of time
before he entered the life raft.
I don't think he entered that raft
until he knew
the Orient Lucky was gonna get him.
I believe that Nathan was only
in the life raft for a matter of hours
and not days, as he described it.
Hours.
There's a photo of Nathan waving.
The raft is inflated.
The canopy is inflated.
The next photo is Nathan in the water.
The canopy is collapsed.
Raft is starting to lose air.
Attempts were made to locate the raft,
but the raft was never located.
Presumably, Nathan took
some sort of action to sink the raft.
He had a knife on him in his life vest,
and he could have just cut it.
My interpretation of it at the time
was that Nathan did not want us
to see the condition of the life raft,
what was still on the life raft,
what equipment he did
or didn't have on the life raft,
because it may very well demonstrate
that he was not on that life raft
for seven days.
[pensive music playing]
[Liam] If he wasn't in a life raft
for seven days,
which I believe he was not,
then where was he?
I think the most
plausible scenario is that
shortly after leaving Point Judith
that night, on Saturday night,
he k*lled his mother,
at some point, disposed of her body,
most likely somewhere
nowhere near Block Island
and nowhere near where the Coast Guard
was searching for a good week.
Down south somewhere,
you know, mid-Atlantic area,
Long Island.
[Lisa] He could hide in plain sight
because he knew that the Coast Guard
weren't looking along the coast.
They weren't looking in marinas.
In all likelihood,
he motored along
to his own area of refuge.
He was familiar
with the Connecticut coastline
and the perimeter of Block Island.
There were any number
of nooks and crannies and places
that he could hide himself and the boat.
Then towards the end of the week,
after the Coast Guard
had called off their search,
he gets in the Chicken Pox,
g*ns it out to the open ocean...
He then got into the life raft
and scuttled the boat.
He would have sunk the boat shortly before
the freighter came within view,
um, so that he would be
properly positioned
to become rescued, um, immediately.
How in God's name does he do that?
Did he disappear?
Did he hide under a tree?
Did he hide under a rock?
What's the kid going,
here, there, he's evading the Coast Guard.
That's what they're saying.
And did he plan
that this Chinese junk ship
that just happened to be going by,
that almost ran him over, I understand,
that he would be picked up?
It... it's nonsense.
[intriguing music playing]
[Lisa] The ocean as a crime scene
is a challenging environment.
Evidence is lost and destroyed
in a matter of seconds.
Because he knew
that the odds were enormously high
that law enforcement
would never be able to find the boat,
let alone the body.
We believe the boat
is at the bottom of the ocean,
Linda's body
is at the bottom of the ocean,
and it could well be that
the weapon used to k*ll John Chakalos
is at the bottom of the ocean.
[Evan] The ocean's a place
that carries a lot of secrets.
There's no surveillance.
No cameras, no iPhones.
My foot was pushing the deck down,
rather than the ground
pushing up against me.
That's what it felt like
just for a moment.
And I remember being in the water, uh,
and seeing the roof of the wheelhouse,
uh, sliding away, uh, like...
That is...
That's what happened.
[prosecutor] And where was your mother?
I-I did not see my mom.
[prosecutor] Well,
what did you hear from her?
What did she say?
I didn't hear anything.
[prosecutor] The boat's sinking.
Your mother still doesn't say anything?
That's your testimony?
My testimony
is that I did not hear my... my...
my mom...
I-I can't say whether my...
I can say I didn't hear her.
[prosecutor] And you didn't see her?
When I was in the water,
I did not see her. That's correct.
[prosecutor] Your mother's
a strong swimmer, isn't she?
Yes, she was.
[prosecutor] And she's
very safety conscious, right?
That's correct.
[prosecutor] Did she disappear?
Objection. Your question's ambiguous.
[haunting music playing]
[reporter 1] We begin At Five
with a shocking update
on a case we've been tracking for years.
The man charged with k*lling his mother
off the coast of Rhode Island has died.
[reporter 2] ...Nathan Carman was found
unresponsive in his cell overnight.
[reporter 3] Jail officials say
Nathan Carman took his own life
while awaiting
a m*rder-on-the-high-seas trial.
[pensive music playing]
[Charlene] He controlled how
he was gonna m*rder my father.
He controlled
how he was gonna m*rder my sister.
He didn't want to spend
the rest of his life in prison.
And so, you know,
he controlled taking his own life.
He went out on his own terms.
[gentle music playing]
[Clark] The autopsy said
that he committed suicide
by hanging from his shoelaces.
No suicide note.
There was no premonition.
There was no, uh,
foreboding of that in his, uh, attitude.
He was upbeat up until that point.
So I was totally in shock.
They're ready to go to trial...
and get a call
to find out your son just died.
[clicks tongue]
Just hard to accept.
I still don't. [chuckles sadly]
[Linda Carman and young Nathan chattering]
[Clark] There is no way that Nathan
could have k*lled his mother.
It's incongruous
with everything that was innate
in both Linda and Nathan.
He, uh, never harmed a soul.
-[Linda Carman] Hey, Nathan James.
-What?
-[Linda Carman] I love you too much.
-Never too much.
We mourned... [sniffles]
The loss of Nathan as a child.
[clicks tongue] Um...
And everything he went through.
But we did not mourn, um, what he did.
We felt, um, however it happened,
um, justice was done. [sniffles]
[melancholy music playing]
Linda had said,
"I can only control my actions."
"I can't control anybody else's actions."
So I think she kinda knew.
And at that time, we alienated her.
She probably figured, you know...
[sniffles] "I don't have a family,
so do as you will."
I don't know.
[Chuck] People try to blame it on Linda.
They say, "Well, his mother
didn't do this or didn't do that."
Linda did the best job she could.
I think she was a good mother.
I mean, she cared about the kid.
She loved the kid.
That was her only son.
I think she looked
at her complicity in it,
and she was saying, you know,
"Whatever happens to me happens to me."
Maybe she figured, "This is a way
I don't have to turn on my son."
And she went...
you know, went to meet her fate.
[melancholy music continues]
[intriguing music playing]
[music fades out]
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Carman Family Deaths, The (2025)
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