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01x04 - Part 4

Episode transcripts for the TV show, "Catching Lightning". Aired: April 7, 2023.*
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The story of MMA fighter, 'Lightning' Lee Murray, who brawled his way from the mean streets of South London all the way to the UFC - and then took part one of the largest bank heists of all-time.

01x04 - Part 4

Post by bunniefuu »

gentle dramatic music

[Adrian] Of course we regret
the fact that Lee Murray

and Paul Allen left the country.

And in hindsight,
we would have acted quicker

to sort of stop them.

[Dave E.] No one had any idea
they'd traveled

into Morocco when they did.

There was no intelligence
to support the fact

that they were
traveling to Morocco.

The Moroccan authorities
would have just processed them

as any other individual.

dramatic music

dramatic rhythmic music

[Sir John] A robbery
occurred in Kent.

A substantial amount
of money was stolen.

It was all in cash.

This theft

represented the largest
amount ever stolen.

The robbers used hostages

as the means to enter
the depot.

There are few things
more terrifying

than the invasion
of home or workplace

at the dead of night

by men dressed
entirely in black,

whose faces and heads
are covered by masks,

brandishing deadly weapons,

and shouting that you will die

if you do not do
as you are told.

And the motive for this crime?

Pure and simple.

Greed.

dramatic rhythmic music

dramatic music

The first time I went to
Morocco was with my mom.

And then we met my dad there.

All I remember was
us at the pool,

restaurants,

doing just family things,

riding camels,

and we were meeting
his friends out there.

I think I was about
seven years old.

[Mus] I went to Morocco on
holiday to go and see Lee.

Lee was with his
friend Paul and

I think his missus
and the kids.

I took the car to Lee and
then stayed for a holiday.

I didn't have anything
to do with the robbery.

Most days we were just
watching football,

going to restaurants,
going to the beach,

going to the gym.

Lee looked like he was relaxed.

It didn't really feel like he
was worried about anything.

[Andy] The first time we were
aware that Lee Murray

and Paul Allen were in
Morocco was April, 2006.

I would be quite confident he
thought he was home and dry.

At that time, it made
a little bit of sense

inasmuch as there was
no extradition treaty

between the United Kingdom
and Morocco.

[Andy] One thing you could
say about Lee Murray,

he was quite organized.

He had those criminal
associates in South London,

so he had much more choice
of people he went to.

Lee Murray's money,
I'm absolutely certain,

nine million, ended up in Dubai.

They set up bank
accounts in Morocco,

and they were having money
put into the bank accounts

and business accounts.

A lot of money.

They might have had
somewhere in the region

of 1.8 million pounds in
an account in Morocco.

[Duncan] They were able
to get that money

out of the country physically

without it being traced
almost immediately.

And that, in a way, is
the most difficult thing

for crime involving
large amounts of cash.

[Dave E.] Lee Murray and
Paul Allen were living

with a Moroccan businessman
whom they were relying on

to help them set up companies
that bought houses,

significant properties,

each around about
a million pounds.

[Andy] Two large properties,

one each,

palaces.

They just needed a lot
of work done to them.

They were in the process
of having that done.

Once finished, lavish
would be an understatement.

Allen's one had at least
15 or 20 bedrooms.

dramatic music

When you get into
Lee Murray's place,

the walls are marble,

the floors are marble,

very kind of opulent furniture.

Some of it quite
pretentious, if you like.

It's not stuff I'd
choose myself, you know,

not that I'm an
interior designer.

And there's a- an
awful mural

of Lee Murray.

I wonder whether the person

that did it had
visual impairment.

And then some of the other
rooms clearly showed signs

that he was preparing to
take the kids there as well,

fitted out with smaller beds.

He's moving everything, lock,
stock and barrel, to Morocco.

[Lilly] There was a plan
for us to move to Morocco,

so he bought the house

and showed us all our bedrooms.

dramatic music

We were definitely
gonna be living there.

gentle music

[Andy] I'm back in the UK.

And as the officer in
the case, my job would be

to get a case together
against Paul Allen

and Lee Murray in the UK.

We're trying to get the
Moroccans to arrest them

on our behalf.

When you go to other
countries as a police officer,

you are not allowed
to do anything.

That is the rules.

Internationally,
that's the rules.

But you can ask the
force of the host country

to do stuff on your behalf.

I'm on holiday and
I receive a phone call

effectively saying to me how
quickly can I get to Morocco.

And the Moroccan authorities
were very welcoming.

We were very respectful
of each other.

You know, it was all new
territory for everybody.

So, there were a number
of objectives,

but the main one was,
obviously, to seek their

arrest and extradition back
to the United Kingdom

for them to answer
the allegations

that they were a
part of this robbery.

[Adrian] Kent Police have
no powers abroad.

But fortunately, there was a
good relationship politically

between the British government
and the Moroccan authorities,

so the Moroccans were happy
to allow us to work with them.

[Andy] And they took it upon
themselves to kind of

keep an eye on them and see
where they were going.

They didn't follow them
around all day every day,

but they kept an eye on things.

soft dramatic music

They were living the high life.

They were spending money,

shopping,

just having a really nice time,

without an inkling
that we were there.

[Lilly] I didn't know that

undercover police were
following us at all.

We're just going on
holiday to see my dad.

It was all just pretty normal.

dramatic music

[Dave E.] One of the things
that I spent a lot

of time doing was to try

and influence the Moroccans'
decision-making process

in our favor.

It did take our Moroccan
colleagues quite some time

to fully understand why we
were investing so much

time and resources.

dramatic music

I was focused on trying
to explain to them

the level of violence they
were prepared to use,

showing them some of the CCTV
footage from the robbery.

dramatic music

The video showed automatic
weapons, body armor,

some of them were
wearing police uniforms.

The fact that they
had kidnapped people,

put people in cages.

dramatic music

However, that wasn't what
they were looking for,

and I wasn't sure what
they were looking for.

I had not expected to have

succeeded in the way that I did.

But there came a point

where I was showing them
the hired truck reversing

into the back of the depot.

One of the robbers has got
Mrs. Dixon by the neck.

There's the son there as well.

dramatic music

The Prosecutor General
put his hands up

and asked me to stop.

I was asked to leave the room.

They were gonna have a meeting.

Every day I was asked how
my wife and children are.

And I had never, ever
given it a second thought.

I said, "They're very well.

Thank you very much."

But I never understood
in their culture

that actually my wife
and children

were more important than me.

I was called back.

They effectively sat
me down and said,

"Right, what is it

that we can do for you
to help you?"

The decision to make the
arrest was a joint agreement

by everybody.

[Mus] There wasn't any crime
committed in Morocco,

so I don't think
anyone was thinking that

police could do anything.

I do remember that
the last few days,

Paul or Lee were
saying that, um,

they think we might be
getting followed by someone.

So on June 25th,

we knew something weren't right

because they showed
themselves, really, to us.

They were right behind us,

like right behind us.

June 25th, it was
quite a long day.

We had an early start.

And we were very much relying
on intelligence coming

from the Moroccans to know
what was going to happen next.

gentle dramatic music

[Mus] The World Cup was on,

so we just drove to the mall,

me, Paul and Lee.

It was like a
nice place to go,

big screens and all chairs,

all set out in the mall
where the food place is.

[Dave E.] Moroccan authorities
dropped us off

at the Mega Mall during
the World Cup and told,

"Go and have some lunch.

We'll get back to you
as soon as we can."

[Mus] We jumped out of the car,

walking into the mall.

Opened the door to
walk in the mall.

Everyone in front of us just
turned into undercover police.

Everyone just pulled out g*ns,

started wrapping us up,

bending us up, beating us.

It was like a full-on attack.

Maybe they thought we was
gonna fight back or something,

I don't know, so they just
went in full-handed

and just took us down
with force,

no f*cking about.

[Dave E.] Smoke, shouting
and screaming.

Something told us that it was
probably to do with our job.

[Mus] This is not no
normal police officers.

They were like a
trained tactical unit.

And they took us down
like we was t*rrorists.

That's the way they-they
handled it.

It was quite impressive.
[chuckles]

[Mus] And then they throw
us in the back of the van,

handcuffed like we were just
piled just like bits of meat.

And we was in the back of the
van for about an hour or so.

[Dave E.] I got a phone call
from Moroccan police,

"Yeah, it's on.

Where are you?

You're required."

There was a police van,

and our detained persons
were on the floor.

[Mus] There was English
police officers there

when we got arrested that day.

They didn't directly speak to us

because, obviously, they're
not supposed to be there,

or they was doing some
f*ck, weren't they?

So they were there,
but they weren't there.

[Dave E.] Lee Murray got put in
the back of a police car.

They put a hood on his face.

He was handcuffed.

I remember him being fed
some chips at one point

whilst the search
was sort of going on.

We recovered this
gold Mercedes,

a rocket on wheels.

[Andy] Searches happened
at the villa

where they were staying.

The rooms that they were
occupying were identified.

And in those rooms were
found a number of watches.

[Dave E.] I've never seen
anything quite like it,

personally.

They were worth a fortune.

[Andy] Audemars Piguet,
Franck Muller,

Cartier, Rolex,

some of them must have
been 30,000 pounds a watch.

And also cocaine.

And this is something
that's very dimly viewed

by the Moroccan authorities.

Four months from him leaving
the country to being arrested.

dramatic music

[Paul] This was a major
national story,

that he'd been
arrested in Morocco,

and a spectacular
arrest it was too.

[newswoman] Kent Police
had been tracking the man

for three months.

But it was Moroccan officers
who led the operation.

dramatic music

[Mus] Obviously, we thought
it's something to do

with the robbery.

But we was all baffled
because we was in Morocco

and no crime got
committed there,

so we still didn't understand
why we was in there.

And then they took us into the
police station into a room,

handcuffed our feet as well,

hoods over our heads.

I think we was handcuffed
to the radiator...

and like, we was in a chain--
me, Lee, Paul,

our feet together.

dramatic music

And we was in the
room for about,

I think it was about
four or five days.

No food, no water.

We thought we
was gonna die,

literally.

We didn't know what
was happening.

Then they got us each
into a room separately

and started doing
interviews with us.

They're speaking
broken English:

"Is this your name?"

Writing it down.

"Do you take drugs?"

And I was saying, "No."

Afterwards we found out that
they've put the opposite

of whatever we said.

It made us look like we
said we take drugs,

but we didn't.

Lee has never, as an adult,
taken drugs.

He did drink,
but he didn't smoke,

and he didn't do drugs.

The Kent Police knew this.

They know who in Lee's circle
took drugs at that time.

[Dave] Lee Murray was gonna
fight again for us in 2006.

He was training every day.

He couldn't come
back to this country,

but it was either sort a
fight out in Amsterdam

or sort a fight in Morocco.

"I'm coming back on a fight
for middleweight title."

[Mus] He's a fitness freak,
isn't he?

So he's always been

on his fighting thing
and on his fitness.

He's never been
on a drugs thing.

soft dramatic music

There was no trial at that time.

It was just a hearing.

And when we first
went into court,

they said that they was
charging us with

fighting with the police

and for drugs
found at the house.

Whoever's drugs they were,

they took the rap for the drugs

and they told them
that that was theirs

and it wasn't me or Lee.

[Andy] The drugs, they
were Paul Allen's.

He claimed that in court
at some point later on.

They slightly put our
process to one side

and they charged them with
offenses around the drugs

and of assaulting
police officers

when they were arrested.

They arrested us and then
said that we fight the police.

So what was the reason
they come to arrest us for

in the first place?

Because we didn't fight the
police in the first place,

so why did they come?

It doesn't make no sense at all.

Who would fight 50 police
with g*ns?

Who's gonna do that?

It just didn't happen.

They beat us up.

Lee's legs, I think,
was all busted up.

We all just got battered.

I think that was the only thing
they could use at that time

to get us held there while
they worked out their plan,

made up fake accusations.

They just took us
straight to the prison

and we got remanded.

Power of England got us
wrapped up in another country

for crimes that we didn't
commit in that country.

Maddest situation that
anyone's been in, I think.

dramatic music

At this point I'm scared, worried,

thinking, "What the f*ck's
going on?"

Put us in the hole,

so they can keep an
eye on us more.

Lee got put next door to me,

and Paul got put in
another part of the prison.

Windows with bars on it,
but no glass in it.

You'd get frostbite.

When it rained,
the water would come in.

When it snowed,
the snow would come in.

Everywhere, there's c*ck.

You've got a hole in the
floor for your toilet there.

The rats come out of the toilet.

You have to put a
bottle in the toilet

to stop them coming out.

soft dramatic music

I think it must have been a
good two or three months

until we went to court again.

And then as soon as we went
to court the second time,

they just adjourned it
for another three months.

Went back to court again,

got adjourned again.

And we went back for
another three months.

We was in solitary
for the whole time.

Even the guards,

they said the longest
someone's been in there was,

like, two weeks, in solitary.

They didn't understand
what was going on.

They've never seen anything
like this before in their lives.

They just kept adjourning it
and adjourning it,

adjourning it, until finally,
when we did go to court

and get sentenced,

we got eight months.

But we was already in
there for 14 months,

even though the person
whose drugs it was stood up

and said that it was his drugs,

and we still got charged for it.

No, we never fought
the police, no.

We didn't know really
what was happening.

[Andy] They were convicted
and sentenced

for those offenses,

which then gave the Moroccans
time to deal with our request.

[Mus] We heard rumors
from family,

"This is what's
going on in England."

But no one said to us
that we was in prison

for any robbery in England.

[siren wailing]

[newsman] 16 months after
Britain's biggest cash heist,

six of those accused of
being part of it were brought

to the Old Bailey, amidst
the tightest of security.

There was certainly an
issue from the very beginning

of the case, that two of the
main defendants were missing.

We very much hoped to extradite
those two, um, villains.

But we had to get
on with the case

as best we could without them.

The defendants were Lea Rusha,

Stuart Royle,

a man called Bucpapa,

Ermir Hysenaj,

Hysenaj, of course,
the inside man,

and Roger Coutts,

responsible for tying the
hands of the employees

with cable ties.

They were alleged to be
kidnappers and robbers,

with a caveat that it
was impossible to know

which of them had
been kidnappers.

And then John Fowler,

who was the man who
owned the flop,

as it's known,

the place where the robbers
took the kidnapped victims

before the robbery and
divided up the money.

And then there
was Michelle Hogg,

who had prepared the
prosthetic masks,

and a man called Borer,

who had helped to change the
identity of a post office van,

which the kidnappers
used for the purposes

of the conspiracies.

I was amazed by the
quantity of evidence.

Really professional villains

do not leave behind

trails of evidence

which allow the police

to amass a strong
case against them.

These defendants left behind

their DNA on the prosthetics.

Really professional
criminals don't leave behind

the balaclava with
their DNA all over it.

This was more Keystone Cops
than The Italian Job.

But that said, it required a
certain amount of chutzpah,

and they showed it.

[Paul] The Chief Prosecutor
was Sir John Nutting, QC,

unquestionably, at that time,

Britain's leading prosecutor.

It was his last case, so he
was keen to go out on a high

in terms of large
prison sentences.

When Sir John Nutting rose,
I wasn't the only one

with butterflies and sort
of nerves in my hands

as we prepared to take down
the start of the trial.

[Sir John] I get to my
feet and I say this:

"On the night of
Tuesday/Wednesday the 21st/22nd

of February, 2006,

a robbery occurred in Kent.

In all the circumstances,

it is perhaps not surprising

that the defenses which
Securitas had put in place

to prevent a robbery,

although perhaps not perfect,

should have proved vulnerable
to men driven by greed

and with the advantages
not only of an inside man

but professional assistance

in the creation of disguises."

And I invited the jury
to follow the spore

of the evidence
identifying the defendants.

[Graeme] I defended Lea Rusha.

He did mixed martial arts and
was connected with Lee Murray.

Those two were
deemed by the police

to be probably the
two main organizers.

Lee Murray was portrayed
as basically the mastermind,

the man who was at the
center of the plot.

There was reporting
restrictions placed on it

because, obviously, at that
time he was still abroad.

So we couldn't report
the name Lee Murray

throughout the trial,

yet it kept on coming up
and coming up,

"He's the one responsible,
not me.

I'm innocent.

It's Lee Murray.

Murray's the man."

At that time, it was
blowing up.

Everyone was...

But we didn't see none of that,

because we was there.

So we didn't even know
what was going on.

We didn't see no newspapers.

We didn't even know that
it blew up like that

and they were saying
that Lee was a mastermind

and whatever crap
they were saying.

[Graeme] We had a conference
with Lea Rusha.

I remember advising him:

"Look, don't speak, just listen,

because the evidence
is exceptionally

strong against you.

I've got 34 points which
you're gonna have to cover

if you wanna get
acquitted of this case."

The forensics, the maps,

links to stashes of money,

and firearms.

That's hard to say, I mean...

To a certain extent,

what happened with Colin Dixon

and the coincidences.

gentle dramatic music

For example, he'd
taken photographs

of some of the staff.

And they were recovered
from his laptop at his home.

That was against
the company policy,

to have any photographs
of any staff

outside of the building.

There was no report
to the police

about his failing
to turn up at home.

It struck us that she
hadn't reported it

and that he was, what,

two, two and a half hours late

turning up at home.

Then there was the fact that,
prior to the robbery,

there had been a system in place

whereby there would be
two separate key holders

for the vault.

But he set up a system involving
two safes outside his room.

And he was the only one who
had codes to those safes

that you needed to
access the vault.

He had both keys.

At one stage, he had a top
and a bottom key

and he shouldn't have had.

[Graeme] And then there
was the delay afterwards.

After the robbers had left,

he waited before he
sounded the alarm.

[Chris] The depot manager,
Colin Dixon,

behaved extremely strangely,

deliberately sort of delaying
the call to the police

after the robbery
for 30 minutes.

dramatic music

Colin Dixon had
to explain away

some strange conduct.

Colin Dixon had been
clearly instructed,

as the manager,

that if he was ever
stopped by a policeman,

he must not get out of his car,

but that he must show
the policeman a document

indicating his job

and agree then to follow
to a police station.

He didn't do that
when he was waylaid.

He's not supposed to stop
the car to the police

and get out of the car
for any reason,

for anything.

[Sir John] Armed with those
aspects of his behavior,

the defense alleged he
was part of the robbery.

"Was Colin the inside man?"

At the trial they asked me that,
and that was my...

That was my initial
gut reaction.

[Anca] Knowing the few protocols
that he didn't follow properly,

I can say that
probably he can be...

He can be the
inside man as well.

Our theory was that
he got cold feet.

When he decided not to

carry through with the robbery,

that's when others decided to
force his hand, so to speak.

[knocking on door]

That's why we took
the line that we did

and cross-examined Colin Dixon

to the extent that we did,

because I think he'd been
interviewed over 45 times

by the police.

You don't interview
someone 45 times

if you didn't believe
they had nothing to hide.

There's just so many coincidences

and so many things that,

had he not changed or
not done that night,

this doesn't happen.

The defense made an
awful lot of this

and sort of portrayed him as
maybe the original inside man

who'd bottled it, hadn't
gone along with it,

and had to be sort of forced
at gunpoint with his family.

Yes.

He probably had something
to do with this.

But they had to make a choice.

I think that without the victim

and the victims,

without them,

it is just a heist.

It is just a bank robbery.

You don't have that-

that public support.

We did investigate
this at some length.

Did he follow protocol?

No, he didn't, because these
people had taken him hostage.

They'd shown him firearms,

stuck them to his head,

and then shown him his
child and his wife.

And he was terrified.

He just wanted
everything to go smoothly

'cause he just
wanted it over with

and he maintained that
just to try and get it over

and done with as
quickly as possible.

[Paul] I watched Colin Dixon
give evidence.

The look in his eyes and
the sort of pleading,

"This is the truth.

I have never ever ever been
in anything like this."

And he was like this.

The jurists were
not having this.

They had made their
mind up already

that Colin Dixon
was a wronged man.

He's not a man who
had done wrong.

[Adrian] These people carried
live automatic weapons

and kidnapped people,

held them against their will,

held an eight-year-old
child at gunpoint.

This is a callous crime

by armed criminals.

Yes.

He was on the
periphery of this case.

Lea Rusha's case is
that Sean Lupton was

one of the organizers
of the conspiracy

and that he got us
inadvertently involved,

getting us to do tasks for
him and things like that.

He then became a central
part of Lea Rusha's case.

One or two of the robbers
had a link to Herne Bay, oddly,

quite a truthful
link to Herne Bay,

where the Dixons lived,
of course.

dramatic music

[Therese] Herne Bay is
definitely an area

where everybody knows everybody.

It's quite a small
town in that way.

I think it's possible that
Sean probably gave others

that were involved
information regarding

the bank manager and his wife,
possible.

I met Sean at a party, 1983.

He worked in construction.

He was a builder.

Both seemed to want
the same things:

to settle down,

have a family,

have a nice life, really.

Sean was born with a
weakness of the muscle

at the back of the eye.

It would just turn
inwards sometimes,

especially if he was tired.

Someone actually
said to me once,

"I can't believe it,

I thought you were
the perfect family,"

after everything happened.

Sean used to meet Stuart Royle
and they used to go

and have a cooked
breakfast together.

Different things Sean told
me about Stuart Royle,

I didn't really like
the sound of him.

He said he had
some money problems

and that he owed
somebody some money.

Sean, liked some movies,
especially "Ocean's Eleven."

I saw him watching
that movie quite a lot

of times just before
the robbery took place.

dramatic music

The night of the robbery,

Sean said he was
going out to fit blinds

and that he would
be back later.

The next day,

I think he came in about seven.

He never came home
at all that night, no.

We had a television
in the kitchen

and the news had come on

to say that there'd
been this robbery.

And then Sean came in the room

as cool as a cucumber

and said, "Did they say
they've got the g*ng

that have done that robbery?"

And then walked off laughing.

Oh, yes, here's a...

Here was a bit with Lupton.

I've forgotten this.

At 2:36 a.m.,

Royle's mobile activated

as a result of a call

from a mobile belonging to
a man named Sean Lupton,

two minutes after the robbers

left the depot.

Lupton's mobile was situated
at or in the vicinity

of Elderden Farm,

at the flop.

Was Lupton's frayed patience
wearing a little thin

by 2:36 in the morning?

[Andy] We were pretty certain

that Sean Lupton
helped Stuart Royle

get his cut of the money,

get it
out of the country,

eight million pounds.

dramatic music

That money was somehow packaged

and given to a fixer
in Northern Cyprus.

And he arranged for the money
to be flown out as cargo.

It went to Northern Cyprus,

where it was
delivered to the fixer.

And he was to launder
it for Stuart Royle.

He didn't.

He nicked it.

dramatic music

[Therese] Six o'clock
in the morning.

We were in bed.

The doorbell went

and I remember Sean said to me,

"You know what this is,
don't you?"

And I said, "No."

Sean did have a
smile on his face

when he was talking
to the police.

He seemed very laid back
about everything,

not worried at all.

I remember Dad
walking up the stairs,

going to get changed, um,

no glance back, nothing.

Walked back down the stairs
after he'd got changed,

and I heard them say that,

"You are being arrested on
conspiracy to kidnap and rob."

They dug through the garden,

tore up all the carpets.

[Therese] They found
10,450 pounds.

Sean was arrested and
put on police bail,

which means you
don't pay any money.

You just have to
report at certain times

to the police station.

It was December the 12th, 2006,
in the morning.

The children were at school.

Sean, he went to work,

left,

and never came back.

[Jasmine] Dad was always
there in the morning

to do breakfast with us,

but this morning, he wasn't.

"Something's not right.

Dad isn't home."

He went missing two weeks
before Christmas.

Never heard from him again.

Police informed me that
he'd spent his last day

with a prost*tute.

There were bits of
information regarding drugs,

dealing of drugs,

that came to light.

Basically learned that
I'd obviously been living

with two different people.

I was having a
breakdown at that time.

Sean Lupton disappeared
off the face of the earth.

We had an interest in him
and wanted to talk to him.

He'd left his wife and his
kids, just abandoned them, gone.

dramatic music

[Paul] During the trial, we were
picking up certain vibes

outside court amongst
various lawyers

that there's something up here.

What happened was that
the prosecution asked

for an adjournment.

We had very substantial
evidence of

conspiracy to kidnap

and conspiracy to rob.

The problem in the case was

that we did not know which

of the defendants had actually
achieved the kidnapping.

And then the other problem
was that we could not,

with any certainty,

associate any particular role

to any of the defendants
in the robbery itself.

We could make an educated guess,

but the jury longed to be told

who did what.

And that was really
where Miss Hogg

came in.

Her counsel came to me

during the closing
stages of the case

and told me that she was
willing to give evidence.

Without her,

their case was not watertight.

[Sir John] Those who had been
kidnappers were disguised

by Miss Hogg,

and she was able to
reveal who they were.

She was potentially a
very valuable witness.

[William] She would only give
evidence for the prosecution

if she was found not guilty.

Her defense, as always,
was, "Yes, I did it.

No, I didn't know they were
going to commit a robbery."

I do not resile

from what I said to the
jury at the outset,

which was that she knew
what she was about.

Such men do not risk
an associate of the

significance of Miss Hogg

without revealing what
they're doing.

So it was a deal.

It was set a thief
to catch a thief.

It was, um, unashamedly
an agreement

between Bill and I.

We then had to, of course,
go back into court.

Now, I sent a message
to the judge

and asked for a good reason

that she not go into
the dock that day

but stand at the back of court.

[Sir John] It's a
significant regret

that I couldn't see the
faces of the defendants.

But I then announced

that the Crown was offering
no further evidence

against Miss Hogg

and that we were
calling Miss Hogg

as a witness for
the prosecution.

The moment he said that,

the cat was out of the bag.

[Andy] She walked across the
floor to the witness box,

mid-trial.

That was an historical
moment in one

of the biggest trials
in criminal history.

"Thou shalt not grass"
is the 11th Commandment

of criminal.

Grass is somebody who informs.

She was breaking the
underworld code,

and that's--

she was putting her
life in danger,

even to the extent

that she would be naming
those not in the dock,

like Lee Murray and others,

who she had also made up,

and the danger that
they would pose to her.

She was providing
the key information

that would lead to
their conviction.

[Graeme] The phrase we
use over here is

she went Queen's Evidence.

She becomes effectively,
as they say, a grass,

with all that may follow
from that in terms

of who she might have upset
as a result of doing so.

[William] And she could
effectively destroy their cases

and ensure their conviction.

She was their biggest
problem in that case.

Michelle Hogg was
a poor little thing.

It wasn't until I
called her as a witness

that I really appreciated

what a pathetic, uh,

creature she was.

She moaned and wailed.

She got very easily upset.

She cried in the witness box,

never a good thing.

She had undoubtedly

got herself involved

in something which was

way above her pay grade.

[Paul] She shook.

Her hands were shaking.

Her voice was shaking.

She was totally not
just white but gray,

a sight of a woman in fear.

She went through an
absolute torturous

hours and hours of
cross examination.

[Graeme] "You're saying
that you're

innocent of these offenses.

I don't believe you.

Sir John Nutting, who
sits right next to me,

doesn't believe you.

What do you say about that?

You'd do anything to get
out of being prosecuted

and ending up in prison."

[Sir John] Miss Hogg's
identification

of those to whom she applied
prosthetic masks,

included Murray,

Rusha,

and Patterson.

Keyinde Patterson had a twin,

and that presented real
problems in relation

to the DNA evidence,
for example.

[Andy] Kane was the man
going into the depot

with Colin Dixon, the kidnapper.

dramatic music

She sort of made Lee Murray
and Patterson...

She gave them a
designer stubble look,

applied a latex
nose to Lea Rusha.

He didn't like it.

And then she just lists
Stuart Royle,

Jetmir Bucpapa,

Roger Coutts, and Allen.

[Andy] She names all of them.

She doesn't name John Fowler.

Well, she can't,
because he wasn't there.

Everything she told us

fit every defendant,

exactly what we knew about them.

Everything we had found
out through hard work,

collecting evidence,

following the spider's
web to the end,

was found to be
justified and correct.

[newswoman] Good evening.

It was Britain's
biggest cash robbery,

and today five men
have been found guilty

of stealing 53 million pounds

from a Securitas depot
in Tonbridge in Kent.

[Andy] The jury returned
guilty verdicts

on all other than John
Fowler and Keith Borer.

[Sir John] John Fowler,
who was acquitted,

he certainly did things to, um,

assist the robbers.

[Paul] He persuaded the jury

that he had no idea what
was going on,

no idea.

[Andy] He'd hired a
legitimate lorry,

seven-and-a-half ton
Renault Midlum.

But, obviously, Mr. Fowler
didn't know anything

about the fact that they
had five armed robbers

and three hostages in his
compound next to his house.

Um...

The judge gave Royle, Rusha,

Bucpapa, and Coutts,

what we call an
indeterminate sentence

for public protection.

They go to prison

and it's indeterminate
the length of time

they spend in there, but they
have a minimum tariff,

and their minimum tariff
was 15 years each.

Michelle Hogg has gone
into witness protection

because she's given

Queen's Evidence on
behalf of the Crown,

which has led to the
conviction of these men.

[Paul] There were
certainly stories

of a seven-million-pound
contract that would be

taken out on her life,
presumably by those

not before the court who,

if they could take out a key
witness like Michelle Hogg,

it would be less chance
of being convicted.

[people yelling]

[woman] Just f*ck off,
the lot of you!

God, leave us alone!
-Okay, okay, okay.

[woman] Just leave us alone!

Stop it!

Just stop taking her photo.

We don't want it.

We'll stop.
-Turn it off!

[Nicola] My personal
opinion is that was concocted

to imply that it was Lee.

Nothing could have been
further from the truth.

He was fighting to
survive in prison.

[Dave E.] The intention was to
extradite both Paul Allen

and Lee Murray back-back
to Kent.

We became aware that
Lee Murray could ask

for Moroccan nationality,

and that would
hinder the process.

Murray said,

"I'm Moroccan.

My father's Moroccan,

so therefore I am a Moroccan."

In Moroccan law, that is true.

If anybody is Moroccan,

they will not extradite them.

It went all the way to
the Moroccan Supreme Court.

[newsman] To Morocco now,
where judges are set

to decide today
whether a key suspect

in Britain's biggest cash
robbery will be extradited.

I'm Morocco.

My son is Morocco.

That I can say.

[newsman] Murray's
family and friends

flew to the Moroccan capital
to await the judge's decision.

dramatic music

[Lilly] When I went
back to Morocco,

we stayed, I think,
for a couple of months.

My dad was in prison then.

And I remember
having to go see him,

having to leave him there,

being so young

and not knowing what's going on

and why can't my dad come home,

and it was literally
the worst thing ever.

[newsman] Authorities in
Rabat have determined

he is a Moroccan citizen.

As such, he can't be extradited,

foiling a bid by Kent Police

to return him to Britain
to face questioning

over the country's
biggest-ever cash haul.

[Andy] They said, "You can't
have Lee Murray.

You can have Paul Allen."

They sign him over to us.

Never been done, there wasn't
any extradition treaty.

dramatic music

[Mus] There's no extradition
treaty between

England and Morocco
that I've heard of.

We don't know. [chuckles]

[siren wailing]

dramatic music

[Nicola] When Paul was extradited,

they held a trial within a trial

to test the evidence
gathered in Morocco.

I've read all the transcripts
between Paul's barrister

and Mick Judge.

Mick Judge was the senior
investigating officer

in this robbery.

[Nicola] It is clear
from those transcripts,

Kent Police put Lee and Paul

under surveillance
24 hours a day.

dramatic music

Lee Murray was first
surveilled,

first watched by police
before his actual arrest

because of a routine
international police tool,

which is gathering as
much evidence as possible.

It all depends on the
quality of the relationship

with the given country.

The UK is one of the countries

that Morocco has a
great relationship with,

so friends do help friends.

[Nicola] Police in Morocco,
they weren't, you know,

looking at the
newspapers thinking,

"Oh, we need to
follow these guys."

There would be no reason
for them to do it.

They did not commit
a crime in Morocco.

dramatic music

[Giles] There are a number of
areas where the police

would appear to have
acted unlawfully.

It certainly appears

that the Kent Police were
ordering the Moroccans

to carry out surveillance
on their own behalf.

I believe that the Kent
Police were clearly operating

in a foreign country.

It's not allowed.

In that transcript,
it's really strange

that they would be only
asking for the arrest of Lee.

They knew that they
weren't allowed

to do what they were doing.

They didn't want to
look like they were

seeking the arrest of Paul

when there's not hard evidence.

They knew that they could
do what they'd done to us

and have no comeback
from it because

they're in Morocco.

At the end of it,
we had a hung jury,

which was very unusual.

We then said, "Right, we
will prosecute him again."

Allen, as we know, then
came back some months later

and pleaded guilty to both
the conspiracy charges,

kidnap and robbery,

but on a specific basis

as to his participation.

[Andy] The only basis of plea
was that we accepted

that we couldn't prove
he was in the depot.

We know who he was in there.

I've told you it's Hoodie.

And that is Paul Allen.

I am certain,

bet my life on it,

but,

can we prove it

beyond reasonable doubt

in a court of law?

Probably not.

He was given 18 years.

They counted his time
in Morocco towards that

because we were clearly
behind his arrest in Morocco.

He came out and has
subsequently been involved

in other criminality.

In 2019 he was shot

and is now paralyzed
as a result.

He now has a reputation,
doesn't he?

He's the man that took part in
one of the biggest robberies

in world history.

And he will use that.

dramatic music

We've still got this issue
with Lee Murray running,

so what do we do?

[Dave E.] Prosecutor General
informed me

that Lee Murray lawfully
gained Moroccan citizenship,

so at that point, I had to
buy some legal manuals.

[Andy] Dave Ecuyer
was a switched-on cookie

and a French speaker,
and he said,

"I'm gonna get a copy of
the Moroccan Penal Code."

[Dave E.] We do not extradite
foreign nationals.

However, we will accept
a request for prosecution

on the behalf of a
foreign jurisdiction.

We could look at instigating
judicial proceedings in Morocco

for the offenses
committed in-in the UK.

He said, "Why don't I
file a report of the crime

at the Securitas
robbery in Morocco?"

I said, "Sounds like a plan."

dramatic music

We sent a lot of the evidence
to one of their senior judges,

and he came to this country

and we briefed him
on the whole case.

[Dave E.] You know, we were
able to put the evidence

in a way that was acceptable

to the Ministry of Justice
in Morocco.

[Reda] The Moroccans culturally
do not like very violent crimes.

So the fact that
those cages were used

and shown to the
Moroccan authorities

probably played a big role

in deciding to
prosecute in Morocco.

[Nicola] Morocco got
all of the bad bits.

He couldn't defend
himself against any of it.

[Reda] I believe that the
lawyers, previous lawyers,

of Lee Murray, they
were not thinking

that there would be
so much UK pressure

to try him to Morocco.

Morocco, and usually countries

that have legal Latin tradition,

follow what we call an
inquisitorial system.

The people will not decide on
whether you're guilty or not,

the judge will,

with an absolute
discretionary power.

There is no jury system.

There is no cross-examination.

If you tell a judge,

"Your Honor, this person could
not have k*lled this person

because they were
100 miles away,

and I have 12 witnesses
who can attest to that,

that we were in a party
together."

"Thank you very much,
but I'm not interested

in your witnesses.

Move on."

The judge will be more prone

to defer to the prosecution

rather than to the defense.

I feel, and most lawyers
in Morocco

almost unanimously will feel,

very inferior and powerless

in front of the judge.

[Paul] I was astounded to hear

that the Moroccan
authorities were prepared

to put him on trial,
at their own expense,

for a crime that was
committed elsewhere.

It is almost unheard
of for a British citizen

to be charged in
a foreign country

for a crime committed
in the United Kingdom.

And the circumstances
in which we

in this country can try people

for crimes abroad
are extremely limited

and confined primarily
to w*r crimes

and to child sex offenses.

I personally don't
know of any other case

where a Moroccan has been

tried in Morocco for a
crime committed abroad.

It makes the Lee Murray
quite unique,

quite unique.

[Andy] They found him guilty
and sentenced him to 10 years

in prison in Morocco.

We thought that was a bit light

because he was the
leader of the g*ng.

He was the main
man sort of thing.

And we were a bit
disturbed at that.

We asked what our
recourse was to this.

And the answer was that
our only recourse was

to appeal the leniency
of the sentence.

dramatic music

[Reda] In Morocco, in
criminal matters,

the prosecution automatically
appeals the case

all the time.

You can pretty much be assured

that the sentence
will be increased.

[Andy] They came back and said,

"Yes, the sentence was wrong.

It was too lenient and we
sentenced him to 25 years."

[Nicola] 25 years,

and there's no early
release in Morocco.

There's no such thing
as parole, it's out.

You are in for a long time
and you will ne--

you're not going to get out.

I think the biggest mistake
that Lee Murray made

is that he invoked his
Moroccan citizenship,

because had he not done that,

he would have been
extradited to the UK.

And from what I know,

he would have gotten a
much lighter sentence

for this bank robbery.

I think absolutely
there was a desire

even at the political level
to ensure that this case

had been tried and people
were convicted.

The message here is even if you
go to a country like Morocco

and you commit a crime of
this nature, that the police,

certainly from Britain, will
come after you, you know,

and ultimately, as we've seen
here, you'll be convicted.

In Morocco, and in
most countries,

at the end of the day,

what the government wants,
the government gets.

dramatic music

[Mus] Lee didn't rob a bank,
did he?

He robbed the Bank of England,
which is

completely different
to robbing a bank.

You've robbed off
the government.

You're actually
robbing the Queen.

Lee pissed them off proper.

dramatic music

[Nicola] They were gonna move
hell and heaven to get Lee.

They were gonna pull
out all of the stops

to take him down
as hard as possible

and see that he never sees
the light of day again.

It is an irony that, in
order to escape justice,

Lee Murray fled to a country
where he could be tried

for that very offense and
receive a stiffer penalty

than if he'd remained at home.

He's copped the longest
sentence in the worst conditions

of the entire g*ng,

from up here to down there.

There is no greater
fall from paradise

that you could possibly imagine.

They will all be
walking the streets

and breathing God's good air
while Murray is still

in a cesspit of a prison cell.

[Andy] Ermir Hysenaj
served his time.

He's been deported.

And Jetmir Bucpapa
has come to the end

of his 15 years minimum tariff.

And he has also been deported.

In prison in this country
is Lea Rusha, Stuart Royle,

and Roger Coutts.

They're coming to
that moment now

where decisions will be made
whether they should stay

in prison or whether they
can be released on parole.

I don't know.

Kane Patterson fled
the country as well.

He was of Jamaican origin

and he may well have
gone to the West Indies.

[newswoman] More than half
of the 53 million pounds

that was stolen
is still missing.

So where is it?

As we've heard
prosecutors say today,

the hunt for the money goes on.

I'd love to know

the whereabouts of the money,

how they got 32 million
clean away.

I'd love to know how much
went to the West Indies,

to Keyinde Patterson.

I'd love to know
whether Hysenaj

took possession of his money.

I'd love to know where
Royle's share is.

I'd love to know the whereabouts
of that 32 million quid.

It just seems to have
disappeared into the ether.

How do you lose 32 million
pounds without a trace?

That's one of the
mysteries of this case.

dramatic music

[Jasmine] I was working at
a bar in Whitstable.

There was a lad that
came in and said,

"Oh, I've been with
your dad in Cyprus."

"Excuse me?"

He said that they were doing
building works out there,

which would fit because
Dad was a builder,

that they were in bars
laughing and joking.

I couldn't believe it,
because at that point,

we didn't know whether
he's dead or alive.

I find it really
hard to accept it.

I don't know why

because they've got
enough evidence there

that he's done it.

I know he has.

I find it really hard to
accept that he did that.

soft dramatic music

[Therese] There aren't many
men who do crimes

and completely cut
their children off.

They might not bother
with their wives.

Not many of them would
completely cut their

own children off like that.

Why did he never contact us?

If you've got that
much money around you,

surely it's easy to get
some sort of message across.

What did we do so wrong

that we weren't enough
for him to stay?

[Andy] Sean Lupton is a
person of interest.

We're pretty certain
that he is out there.

We're still looking for him.

He handled Stuart Royle's cash.

The fact that it
was stolen, again,

by people that you may class

as Turkish mafia, is irrelevant.

The crime was committed
by Sean Lupton.

dramatic music

[Nicola] They know there's
somebody walking around

out there in Cyprus that
they show no interest in

doing the same to what
they did to Lee,

it's strange to me.

It's really strange.

I feel like they
only wanted Lee.

The guy was Lee.

They didn't care
about anyone else.

This investigation
is not closed.

Eventually, those people
will be tracked down

and we will convict them.

[Nicola] Lee did deserve
to go to prison for his role.

Nobody condones what happened.

But at the same time,

I don't condone, like,

extremely harsh sentences,
you know.

I do believe in second chances

and I do believe that
Lee is someone who's

worthy of a second chance.

In 2009,

Lee and Siobhan got divorced

after he was in prison.

People were falling away.

The more we spoke,

we just naturally fell in love.

It just, like, evolved.

It just naturally...

it just happened.

I always say,
"Why did you do that?

It's so stupid.

It's the stupidest thing."

And he'll say,
"If I didn't do this,

me and you wouldn't
be together."

Like, you know, so

there's some positives there,

and you have to take the
positives where you can

and make the most
of it, I guess.

I only asked my dad
once about the robbery.

And he just said it was
just a massive mistake,

and now he's paying the
massive price for it.

He did just really
wanna be a UFC fighter,

and that's what he wanted
people to see him as.

[Fryklund] He made his own path.

I mean, I'm sure it feels
amazing too to be able

to mastermind, you know,
the biggest robbery

in world history and
be that type of-

be that type of figure,

and, I mean, God, it's
like everyone wants

their own theme music
walking around, you know?

When they go to CVS
and sh*t like that.

You know what I mean?

But you really
got to listen hard.

It's really not playing.

Do you know what I mean?

But if you believe
it's playing, I mean,

you can get caught
up in that game.

And as long as you keep
the music up loud enough,

the rest of the world
doesn't play that game.

And there's a reason
for it, you know.

It doesn't f*ck'
last long. [chuckles]

[Anca] Was it worth it,
you done this?

I mean, that moment is, uh,

it will be with me forever.

[Tony] I don't think you're
ever gonna get away

from it completely.

It's part of my life.

I can't not acknowledge it.

But I just try to forget it

and move on with the
more important things.

[Alun] The potential
there was for people

to be traumatized long term.

For what?

You know, for money.

If you've got that
kind of talent,

you should have used that,
you know, properly,

used it the right way.

dramatic music

[Dave E.] Lee Murray was
prosecuted outside

the jurisdiction of
England and Wales.

We did a good job in very
difficult circumstances.

We were able to get
the main offenders.

Ultimately, it's not my decision

whether it's the right thing
or the wrong thing.

My job is to make sure

that people do face the
criminal justice system.

dramatic music

[Andy] Pardon the phrase, but
you can piss off an individual.

You can piss off a company.

You can piss off
an organization.

But do not piss
off a government.

They will give you all the
resources they have to hand

to assist you to get
their money back.

That was one thing

that hopefully these
robbers have learned.

But I've certainly learned it.

dramatic music

[Reda] He should have been
prosecuted somewhere.

However, nobody has died.

Nobody was maimed.

Morocco should have given him

about the same sentences,

or a little bit more, than he
would have gotten in the UK.

People still think that
Lee's some sort of connected

with the money still.

He's living like a king.

He can't be in a
Third World country

and have that sort of money
and not have freedom.

For his whole sentence,

he's just been in
solitary confinement.

To do 25 years full
stretch in Morocco

is something you
would never wish

for your worst nightmare, mate.

soft dramatic music

[Terry] Know the man,
know the beast he was.

Yeah.

And if you really knew him,

if you really truly knew him,

there's a lot of people that
did know him would agree

with what I said:

he was a gentleman,
a f*ck' gentleman.

I think- I think we--

the only interactions
we had was via letters.

And that was it.

And it was, "I'm hoping
that the King of Morocco,

because I'm half
Moroccan, you know,

will-will be lenient upon me
and get me out earlier."

I think a lot of people
wrote letters to the King

and things like that,
but to no avail.

No early release program.

You just, if the King
pardons you then, yeah,

and thinks you're worthy
of a second chance,

then sometimes that's
extended to you.

I will 100% wait.

There is no shadow of a
doubt that I will wait

every year of the next 12 years.

If I have to, I will.

soft dramatic music

dramatic music