♪ ♪
♪ ♪
[Cheers and applause]
john: welcome, welcome,
John: welcome, welcome,
welcome to "last week tonight."
Welcome to "last week tonight."
I'm john oliver.
I'm john oliver.
Thank you so much for joining
Thank you so much for joining
us.
Us.
Just time for a quick recap of
Just time for a quick recap of
the week.
The week.
And we begin with the trump
And we begin with the trump
administration's ongoing
Administration's ongoing
scandals, which we've been
Scandals, which we've been
calling "stupid watergate,"
Calling "stupid watergate,"
something with the potential
Something with the potential
gravity of watergate if the
Gravity of watergate if the
entire white house was on
Entire white house was on
bath salts and nixon was a
Bath salts and nixon was a
raccoon with his head stuck in a
Raccoon with his head stuck in a
jar of peanut butter.
Jar of peanut butter.
Well, this week, it seems like
Well, this week, it seems like
investigators started closing in
Investigators started closing in
on the trump team, and not just
On the trump team, and not just
metaphorically.
Metaphorically.
A political alert for you.
A political alert for you.
Donald trump jr. And special
Donald trump jr. And special
counsel robert mueller were feet
Counsel robert mueller were feet
away from each other.
Away from each other.
Look at this image.
Look at this image.
They were waiting for a flight
They were waiting for a flight
yesterday.
Yesterday.
John: it's true.
John: it's true.
That happened.
That happened.
And if you're wondering who was
And if you're wondering who was
more uncomfortable on that
More uncomfortable on that
flight, don jr. Or
Flight, don jr. Or
robert mueller, it's
Robert mueller, it's
actually a trick question.
Actually a trick question.
It's everyone on any flight with
It's everyone on any flight with
don jr. Ever, because it turns
Don jr. Ever, because it turns
out that "my seat mate smells
Out that "my seat mate smells
like axe body spray and
Like axe body spray and
misplaced confidence" is not a
Misplaced confidence" is not a
good enough reason to change
Good enough reason to change
seats.
Seats.
Now, there was a series of
Now, there was a series of
potentially damaging revelations
Potentially damaging revelations
this week, courtesy of the
This week, courtesy of the
president's former lawyer,
President's former lawyer,
michael cohen, whose very face
Michael cohen, whose very face
now permanently asks the
Now permanently asks the
question "is this the day I go
Question "is this the day I go
to jail?"
To jail?"
And the revelations began on
And the revelations began on
tuesday with this.
Tuesday with this.
There are tapes.
There are tapes.
The fbi has a secret recording
The fbi has a secret recording
of president trump speaking with
Of president trump speaking with
his one-time fixer,
His one-time fixer,
michael cohen, about potential
Michael cohen, about potential
payments to silence former
Payments to silence former
playboy model karen mcdougal in
Playboy model karen mcdougal in
late 2016, just months before he
Late 2016, just months before he
was elected.
Was elected.
John: wow.
John: wow.
Now, historically, "there are
Now, historically, "there are
tapes" hasn't worked out well
Tapes" hasn't worked out well
for presidents.
For presidents.
It's one of those phrases that
It's one of those phrases that
is universally foreboding, like
Is universally foreboding, like
"the virus is airborne" or
"The virus is airborne" or
"ronan farrow is working on an
"Ronan farrow is working on an
article about you."
Article about you."
Now, the tapes feature trump and
Now, the tapes feature trump and
cohen discussing a plan to keep
Cohen discussing a plan to keep
mcdougal's story from becoming
Mcdougal's story from becoming
public, which is interesting,
Public, which is interesting,
because remember, trump had
Because remember, trump had
previously denied any knowledge
Previously denied any knowledge
of the situation and also denied
Of the situation and also denied
the affair itself.
The affair itself.
So this could be a problem for
So this could be a problem for
multiple reasons, from it being
Multiple reasons, from it being
a potential campaign finance
A potential campaign finance
violation to the embarrassment
Violation to the embarrassment
it causes trump's wife --
It causes trump's wife --
although given that she just
Although given that she just
released a statement that she is
Released a statement that she is
allowed to watch any channel she
Allowed to watch any channel she
wants, that marriage appears to
Wants, that marriage appears to
be rock-solid.
Be rock-solid.
But cohen wasn't done, because
But cohen wasn't done, because
on thursday, he dropped a second
On thursday, he dropped a second
bombshell.
Bombshell.
Trump's former personal
Trump's former personal
lawyer, michael cohen, claims
Lawyer, michael cohen, claims
mr. Trump knew in advance about
Mr. Trump knew in advance about
that june 2016 meeting in
That june 2016 meeting in
trump tower, the meeting where
Trump tower, the meeting where
the trump team expected russians
The trump team expected russians
to deliver campaign dirt on
To deliver campaign dirt on
hillary clinton.
Hillary clinton.
John: now, that is
John: now, that is
potentially huge, and also,
Potentially huge, and also,
somehow, completely
Somehow, completely
unsurprising.
Unsurprising.
Because deep down, we all
Because deep down, we all
assumed that was the case
Assumed that was the case
anyway.
Anyway.
"Breaking news, the president
"Breaking news, the president
actually knew about a meeting
Actually knew about a meeting
that involved his son, his
That involved his son, his
son-in-law, and his campaign
Son-in-law, and his campaign
manager discussing dirt about
Manager discussing dirt about
his greatest enemy that took
His greatest enemy that took
place where he lived and worked
Place where he lived and worked
in a building which has his
In a building which has his
f*cking name on it.
f*cking name on it.
And, look, if michael cohen's
And, look, if michael cohen's
revelations were not enough,
Revelations were not enough,
this week brought one more
This week brought one more
development, as it was reported
Development, as it was reported
that robert mueller is now
That robert mueller is now
looking into whether trump's
Looking into whether trump's
tweets constitute obstruction of
Tweets constitute obstruction of
justice, a question on which his
Justice, a question on which his
lawyer, rudy giuliani, weighed
Lawyer, rudy giuliani, weighed
in just this morning.
In just this morning.
Obstruction by tweet is not
Obstruction by tweet is not
something that I think works
Something that I think works
real well.
Real well.
Generally, obstruction is
Generally, obstruction is
secret, it's clandestine, it's
Secret, it's clandestine, it's
corrupt.
Corrupt.
You don't want the evidence out
You don't want the evidence out
in the public so it can be used
In the public so it can be used
against you.
Against you.
John: now, that is true.
John: now, that is true.
It would be incredibly stupid to
It would be incredibly stupid to
do this completely out in the
Do this completely out in the
open.
Open.
Or -- or it could be brilliant.
Or -- or it could be brilliant.
Because just think about it:
Because just think about it:
it's innately hard to believe
It's innately hard to believe
something is a crime when it's
Something is a crime when it's
done loudly and blatantly right
Done loudly and blatantly right
in front of you.
In front of you.
If you see someone break a
If you see someone break a
car window in broad daylight,
Car window in broad daylight,
get in, and then drive away,
Get in, and then drive away,
part of you is going, "I guess
Part of you is going, "I guess
that guy must own that car."
That guy must own that car."
But he didn't.
But he didn't.
That was just a very bad
That was just a very bad
car thief who might just be
Car thief who might just be
stupid enough to get away with
Stupid enough to get away with
that.
That.
And the depressing thing is,
And the depressing thing is,
that might be what is happening
That might be what is happening
here.
Here.
But now, let's move on to
But now, let's move on to
facebook, the place to casually
Facebook, the place to casually
like a picture of pasta your
Like a picture of pasta your
ex-girlfriend ate two nights ago
Ex-girlfriend ate two nights ago
because it's slightly less weird
Because it's slightly less weird
than ringing her doorbell and
Than ringing her doorbell and
saying it.
Saying it.
Now, facebook made history this
Now, facebook made history this
week, and not for any of the
Week, and not for any of the
reasons you want to make
Reasons you want to make
history.
History.
Tech titan mark zuckerburg is
Tech titan mark zuckerburg is
waking up to monumental loss
Waking up to monumental loss
this morning.
This morning.
Thursday, facebook's stocks
Thursday, facebook's stocks
plummeting an astounding 19%,
Plummeting an astounding 19%,
the company losing a historic
The company losing a historic
$119 billion in just 24 hours.
$119 Billion in just 24 hours.
John: that is incredible!
John: that is incredible!
Around $120 billion in one day.
Around $120 billion in one day.
And, look, you know what that
And, look, you know what that
means: myspace is back, baby!
Means: myspace is back, baby!
It's tom time, m*therf*ckers!
It's tom time, m*therf*ckers!
Tom time, tom time!
Tom time, tom time!
He's back!
He's back!
Tom's back!
Tom's back!
[Audience chanting "tom"]
[Audience chanting "tom"]
t-t-tom time!
T-t-tom time!
John: yes!
John: yes!
Like he's never been away!
Like he's never been away!
Fools!
Fools!
Look, $120 billion is a lot of
Look, $120 billion is a lot of
money.
Money.
For context, it is more than the
For context, it is more than the
size of the entire global cheese
Size of the entire global cheese
market.
Market.
Facebook's stock dropped by
Facebook's stock dropped by
the concept of cheese.
The concept of cheese.
And it's not hard to see that
And it's not hard to see that
they've been struggling.
They've been struggling.
Concerns about privacy have
Concerns about privacy have
gotten so intense.
Gotten so intense.
A few months back, there were
A few months back, there were
hearings in congress, and the
Hearings in congress, and the
company felt the need to put out
Company felt the need to put out
this ubiquitous apology ad.
This ubiquitous apology ad.
We came here for the friends,
We came here for the friends,
and we got to know the friends
And we got to know the friends
of our friends.
Of our friends.
Then something happened:
Then something happened:
we had to deal with spam,
We had to deal with spam,
clickbait, fake news, and
Clickbait, fake news, and
data misuse.
Data misuse.
That's going to change.
That's going to change.
From now on, facebook will do
From now on, facebook will do
more to keep you safe and
More to keep you safe and
protect your privacy so we can
Protect your privacy so we can
all get back to what made
All get back to what made
facebook good in the first
Facebook good in the first
place...
Place...
Friends.
Friends.
'Cause when this place does what
'Cause when this place does what
it was built for, then we all
It was built for, then we all
get a little closer.
Get a little closer.
♪ ♪
♪ ♪
John: f*ck you.
John: f*ck you.
Facebook was doing literally
Facebook was doing literally
exactly what it was built for.
Exactly what it was built for.
That's why it was worth
That's why it was worth
$600 billion.
$600 Billion.
You didn't build history's most
You didn't build history's most
profitable data-harvesting
Profitable data-harvesting
machine by accident.
Machine by accident.
It's not penicillin or
It's not penicillin or
applebee's cheeseburger
Applebee's cheeseburger
egg rolls.
Egg rolls.
How did that happen?
How did that happen?
"Guys!
"Guys!
There was a terrible mistake in
There was a terrible mistake in
the kitchen, and --
The kitchen, and --
oh, shit, you sent them out?
Oh, shit, you sent them out?
Are people eating them?
Are people eating them?
Okay, I guess we sell them now."
Okay, I guess we sell them now."
This is just the latest low
This is just the latest low
point for facebook, who've had
Point for facebook, who've had
to deal with controversies over
To deal with controversies over
everything from possibly
Everything from possibly
contributing to a genocide in
Contributing to a genocide in
myanmar to mark zuckerberg
Myanmar to mark zuckerberg
claiming holocaust deniers
Claiming holocaust deniers
weren't intentionally getting it
Weren't intentionally getting it
wrong to the company using the
Wrong to the company using the
disaster in puerto rico as a
Disaster in puerto rico as a
backdrop to promote their
Backdrop to promote their
virtual reality tools.
Virtual reality tools.
You can get a sense of
You can get a sense of
the damage here that
The damage here that
hurricane -- that the hurricanes
Hurricane -- that the hurricanes
have done.
Have done.
And, um, I mean, this is one of
And, um, I mean, this is one of
the things that's really magical
The things that's really magical
about virtual reality is, you
About virtual reality is, you
can get the feeling that you're
Can get the feeling that you're
really in a place.
Really in a place.
It feels like we're in the same
It feels like we're in the same
place and we're making eye
Place and we're making eye
contact with each other.
Contact with each other.
We could high-five if we
We could high-five if we
wanted to.
Wanted to.
We can even high-five.
We can even high-five.
I mean, this is -- we're now
I mean, this is -- we're now
looking around, and it feels
Looking around, and it feels
like we're really here in
Like we're really here in
puerto rico, where it's
Puerto rico, where it's
obviously a tough place to get
Obviously a tough place to get
to now, and a lot of people are
To now, and a lot of people are
really suffering with the
Really suffering with the
aftermath of the hurricanes.
Aftermath of the hurricanes.
John: okay, so just a small
John: okay, so just a small
tip for future virtual reality
Tip for future virtual reality
demonstrations: if you feel like
Demonstrations: if you feel like
you absolutely have to go to a
You absolutely have to go to a
place where something horrific
Place where something horrific
just happened, at the very
Just happened, at the very
least, don't have your avatars
Least, don't have your avatars
be smiling.
Be smiling.
That's like going to the
That's like going to the
k*lling fields and throwing on
k*lling fields and throwing on
the dog face filter.
The dog face filter.
That is neither the time nor the
That is neither the time nor the
place for looking like a
Place for looking like a
sexy puppy.
Sexy puppy.
I don't know when exactly is,
I don't know when exactly is,
but it's not f*cking then.
But it's not f*cking then.
Now, public opinion of facebook
Now, public opinion of facebook
has clearly never been lower,
Has clearly never been lower,
and it seems that zuckerberg and
And it seems that zuckerberg and
his company could use a friend
His company could use a friend
right now.
Right now.
Not a facebook friend, of
Not a facebook friend, of
course, a real friend.
Course, a real friend.
One who'll do more than
One who'll do more than
mindlessly "like" everything
Mindlessly "like" everything
they do.
They do.
They need a friend who
They need a friend who
understands who they really are:
Understands who they really are:
a surveillance system disguised
A surveillance system disguised
as a high school reunion.
As a high school reunion.
A friend who thinks their ads
A friend who thinks their ads
should be up front about this
Should be up front about this
and who, in fact, has already
And who, in fact, has already
produced a version of what that
Produced a version of what that
ad might look like.
Ad might look like.
You came here for the
You came here for the
friends.
Friends.
You got to know the friends of
You got to know the friends of
your friends.
Your friends.
We came here for your data and
We came here for your data and
the data of everyone you have
The data of everyone you have
ever come into contact with.
Ever come into contact with.
From your old friends from
From your old friends from
middle school to your grandma to
Middle school to your grandma to
your grandma's friends from
Your grandma's friends from
middle school.
Middle school.
And your data enabled us to make
And your data enabled us to make
a f*ck ton of ad money from
A f*ck ton of ad money from
corporations, app developers,
Corporations, app developers,
and political campaigns, and we
And political campaigns, and we
discovered your uncle used to
Discovered your uncle used to
have ties to the klan.
Have ties to the klan.
And guess what?
And guess what?
We discovered we could make a
We discovered we could make a
f*ck ton of money off that shit
f*ck ton of money off that shit
too.
Too.
Guys, we were making so much
Guys, we were making so much
money off of you, you don't even
Money off of you, you don't even
understand.
Understand.
But then you found out about it,
But then you found out about it,
and we had to testify and issue
And we had to testify and issue
bullshit apology ads.
Bullshit apology ads.
Also, we could lose
Also, we could lose
$120 billion.
$120 Billion.
But here's the thing.
But here's the thing.
Nothing's really going to
Nothing's really going to
change.
Change.
We've got your data.
We've got your data.
We've got your friends.
We've got your friends.
And, really, where are you going
And, really, where are you going
to go?
To go?
Friendster?
Friendster?
f*ck you.
f*ck you.
That is why we are going to keep
That is why we are going to keep
finding subtle ways to violate
Finding subtle ways to violate
your privacy, so we can carry on
Your privacy, so we can carry on
doing what this place was built
Doing what this place was built
for: functioning as a haven for
For: functioning as a haven for
r*cist trolls, a way for you to
r*cist trolls, a way for you to
feel jealous of
Feel jealous of
people you haven't seen in
People you haven't seen in
years, and a place for you to
Years, and a place for you to
fritter your life away watching
Fritter your life away watching
videos of cats eating corn, dogs
Videos of cats eating corn, dogs
riding horses, and kids beating
Riding horses, and kids beating
the shit out of each other, all
The shit out of each other, all
while we make an ungodly amount
While we make an ungodly amount
of money.
Of money.
Facebook.
Facebook.
We own who you are.
We own who you are.
John: moving on.
John: moving on.
So our main story tonight
So our main story tonight
concerns sexual harassment in
Concerns sexual harassment in
the workplace, which you may
The workplace, which you may
know from its supporting role on
Know from its supporting role on
the hit show "mad men."
The hit show "mad men."
And, look, who better to talk
And, look, who better to talk
about it than me, a man?
About it than me, a man?
"When will the male perspective
"When will the male perspective
on harassment be heard?"
On harassment be heard?"
The public has been crying out.
The public has been crying out.
Well, wait no longer.
Well, wait no longer.
Tonight is the night.
Tonight is the night.
We've been dealing with
We've been dealing with
workplace harassment for
Workplace harassment for
decades, as demonstrated by this
Decades, as demonstrated by this
unfortunately titled training
Unfortunately titled training
video from 1981.
Video from 1981.
Good old sex.
Good old sex.
What's wrong with that, huh?
What's wrong with that, huh?
Everything, as a matter of fact,
Everything, as a matter of fact,
when it's unwelcome and when it
When it's unwelcome and when it
occurs at work.
Occurs at work.
John: okay, so first, never
John: okay, so first, never
call it "good old sex."
Call it "good old sex."
You sound like a grandfather
You sound like a grandfather
explaining the birds and the
Explaining the birds and the
bees.
Bees.
"Let's talk about good old sex,
"Let's talk about good old sex,
tiger.
Tiger.
'Cause sometimes pop-pop likes
'Cause sometimes pop-pop likes
to stick the ol' spatula in
To stick the ol' spatula in
meemaw's easy-bake oven.
Meemaw's easy-bake oven.
You get it.
You get it.
You get it."
You get it."
The kid gets it.
The kid gets it.
But the fact is, store-brand
But the fact is, store-brand
ted danson is right.
Ted danson is right.
Workplace harassment is
Workplace harassment is
something important to discuss,
Something important to discuss,
and it's been in the headlines
And it's been in the headlines
again this week with
Again this week with
"the new yorker's" expose about
"The new yorker's" expose about
cbs and les moonves coming hot
Cbs and les moonves coming hot
on the heels of similar
On the heels of similar
investigations into everyone
Investigations into everyone
from harvey weinstein to
From harvey weinstein to
charlie rose to spongebob, who
Charlie rose to spongebob, who
five different employees accused
Five different employees accused
of being unable to keep his
Of being unable to keep his
sponge d*ck in his square pants.
Sponge d*ck in his square pants.
You're a monster.
You're a monster.
And, look, whenever the subject
And, look, whenever the subject
of workplace harassment comes
Of workplace harassment comes
up, you can bet on one thing:
Up, you can bet on one thing:
men getting very nervous.
Men getting very nervous.
I think right now men are
I think right now men are
scared, and you can get to the
Scared, and you can get to the
point where women are gonna be
Point where women are gonna be
denied opportunities to advance
Denied opportunities to advance
in corporate america 'cause men
In corporate america 'cause men
don't want to be alone with a
Don't want to be alone with a
woman, don't want to be in the
Woman, don't want to be in the
same office as a woman.
Same office as a woman.
I'm so scared to look at a
I'm so scared to look at a
woman.
Woman.
I'm so scared to compliment a
I'm so scared to compliment a
woman.
Woman.
I'm so scared to even hug a
I'm so scared to even hug a
woman.
Woman.
'Cause I better have a big
'Cause I better have a big
enough bank account for her to
Enough bank account for her to
turn around and file a complaint
Turn around and file a complaint
or file a lawsuit against me.
Or file a lawsuit against me.
Huh?
Huh?
I'm starting to be concerned
I'm starting to be concerned
that innocent people are afraid
That innocent people are afraid
of being hurt, and that's a bad
Of being hurt, and that's a bad
sign.
Sign.
And so the question is, what are
And so the question is, what are
the rules?
The rules?
How do we find out what they
How do we find out what they
are?
Are?
How do you know if you're
How do you know if you're
guilty?
Guilty?
What is going on?
What is going on?
John: you know -- you know,
John: you know -- you know,
you can tell so much about a
You can tell so much about a
question from the mere tone with
Question from the mere tone with
which it is asked.
Which it is asked.
Because "what are the rules?" Is
Because "what are the rules?" Is
not inherently a bad thing to
Not inherently a bad thing to
ask, if you want to know the
Ask, if you want to know the
answer.
Answer.
"What 'are' the rules?" Sounds
"What 'are' the rules?" Sounds
more like an erection's
More like an erection's
temper tantrum.
Temper tantrum.
But the point here is, it does
But the point here is, it does
seem like we're on the verge of
Seem like we're on the verge of
a national reckoning about
A national reckoning about
sexual harassment.
Sexual harassment.
Major companies like ford have
Major companies like ford have
had to pay multimillion-dollar
Had to pay multimillion-dollar
settlements and promise to
Settlements and promise to
change their corporate culture.
Change their corporate culture.
A wave of women are now running
A wave of women are now running
for office in what's being
For office in what's being
called "the year of the woman."
Called "the year of the woman."
And "time's up" was even a theme
And "time's up" was even a theme
of this year's oscars show.
Of this year's oscars show.
Now, unfortunately, everything I
Now, unfortunately, everything I
just said also describes the
Just said also describes the
Like ford paid out
Like ford paid out
multimillion-dollar settlements
Multimillion-dollar settlements
and promised to change their
And promised to change their
culture, and a wave of women ran
Culture, and a wave of women ran
for office in 1992, prompting it
For office in 1992, prompting it
to be called "the year of the
To be called "the year of the
woman," and that theme was the
Woman," and that theme was the
backdrop of the next year's
Backdrop of the next year's
oscars, featuring this moment:
Oscars, featuring this moment:
♪ ladies! ♪
♪ Ladies! ♪
♪ Ladies! ♪
♪ Ladies! ♪
♪ Everywhere! ♪
♪ Everywhere! ♪
♪ So stand and cheer
♪ So stand and cheer
the women of the hour ♪
The women of the hour ♪
♪ out to claim
♪ Out to claim
their equal share of power ♪
Their equal share of power ♪
♪ hillary will lead the way ♪
♪ Hillary will lead the way ♪
john: ouch.
John: ouch.
The only way that could be more
The only way that could be more
on-the-nose is if, after they
On-the-nose is if, after they
sang, "hillary will lead the
Sang, "hillary will lead the
way," donald trump came onstage,
Way," donald trump came onstage,
groped the backup dancers, and
Groped the backup dancers, and
somehow won best picture despite
Somehow won best picture despite
losing the popular vote.
Losing the popular vote.
Now, that national conversation
Now, that national conversation
in the '90s was largely
In the '90s was largely
kickstarted by the experience of
Kickstarted by the experience of
this woman.
This woman.
And if you are too young to
And if you are too young to
remember who that is, first,
Remember who that is, first,
enjoy snapchatting your
Enjoy snapchatting your
student loan avocado toast or
Student loan avocado toast or
whatever it is you people do.
Whatever it is you people do.
And secondly, that is
And secondly, that is
anita hill.
Anita hill.
She was compelled to testify
She was compelled to testify
before the senate judiciary
Before the senate judiciary
committee in the
Committee in the
confirmation hearings of
Confirmation hearings of
judge clarence thomas and she
Judge clarence thomas and she
informed them that, when she'd
Informed them that, when she'd
worked for him years before,
Worked for him years before,
she'd been repeatedly harassed.
She'd been repeatedly harassed.
She gave a detailed account of
She gave a detailed account of
inappropriate behavior, from
Inappropriate behavior, from
unwanted advances to thomas
Unwanted advances to thomas
bragging about the size of his
Bragging about the size of his
own penis to an infamous story
Own penis to an infamous story
about a pubic hair in a
About a pubic hair in a
coke can, which is the most
Coke can, which is the most
disgusting thing you could
Disgusting thing you could
possibly discover in a coke can
Possibly discover in a coke can
other than pepsi.
Other than pepsi.
And while enough senators
And while enough senators
believed thomas' denials to
Believed thomas' denials to
confirm him, the terrible
Confirm him, the terrible
treatment that anita hill
Treatment that anita hill
received during the hearings
Received during the hearings
inspired a nationwide effort to
Inspired a nationwide effort to
stop workplace harassment once
Stop workplace harassment once
and for all.
And for all.
Now, clearly, that did not work.
Now, clearly, that did not work.
So tonight, since we seem to be
So tonight, since we seem to be
going in circles on this issue,
Going in circles on this issue,
let's try and at least talk
Let's try and at least talk
about it, if only because no one
About it, if only because no one
wants to see "ending workplace
Wants to see "ending workplace
harassment" as the unofficial
Harassment" as the unofficial
theme of the 2048 oscars, hosted
Theme of the 2048 oscars, hosted
by a somehow still ageless
By a somehow still ageless
paul rudd.
Paul rudd.
And let's just start with one of
And let's just start with one of
those basic questions that
Those basic questions that
tucker carlson whined into his
Tucker carlson whined into his
camera, "what are the rules?"
Camera, "what are the rules?"
It's something that continues to
It's something that continues to
confuse people, despite all
Confuse people, despite all
those shitty training videos
Those shitty training videos
showing examples of a dangerous
Showing examples of a dangerous
office culture.
Office culture.
Hey, have you seen the new
Hey, have you seen the new
blonde secretary over at
Blonde secretary over at
shipping?
Shipping?
Boy, can she type!
Boy, can she type!
Oh, type?
Oh, type?
Hell, you haven't seen anything
Hell, you haven't seen anything
until you seen her file, man.
Until you seen her file, man.
Listen, if you boys are
Listen, if you boys are
impressed with her typing and
Impressed with her typing and
filing, wait until she takes
Filing, wait until she takes
your dictation.
Your dictation.
[Laughter]
[Laughter]
♪ ♪
♪ ♪
John: now, I realize this
John: now, I realize this
isn't necessarily the most
Isn't necessarily the most
relevant criticism of that man's
Relevant criticism of that man's
behavior, but he just left
Behavior, but he just left
without washing his hands.
Without washing his hands.
There was -- there was just zero
There was -- there was just zero
daylight between the time his
Daylight between the time his
fingers adjusted his colleague's
Fingers adjusted his colleague's
necktie and the time they
Necktie and the time they
adjusted his own penis.
Adjusted his own penis.
But the question "what is
But the question "what is
sexual harassment?" Actually
Sexual harassment?" Actually
does have an answer, because
Does have an answer, because
while companies may have their
While companies may have their
own policies, from a legal
Own policies, from a legal
standpoint, sexual harassment is
Standpoint, sexual harassment is
considered a form of employment
Considered a form of employment
discrimination, just like
Discrimination, just like
discrimination on the basis of
Discrimination on the basis of
race or age.
Race or age.
It becomes unlawful when it is
It becomes unlawful when it is
severe or pervasive enough that
Severe or pervasive enough that
it creates a hostile environment
It creates a hostile environment
or when it includes a
Or when it includes a
quid pro quo, meaning employees
Quid pro quo, meaning employees
have to endure the harassment or
Have to endure the harassment or
risk losing their jobs.
Risk losing their jobs.
So that is what constitutes
So that is what constitutes
sexual harassment under the law.
Sexual harassment under the law.
It's not a single shitty joke or
It's not a single shitty joke or
a botched compliment.
A botched compliment.
It's going out of your way to
It's going out of your way to
make someone else's workday a
Make someone else's workday a
psychosexual nightmare.
Psychosexual nightmare.
But, of course, behavior doesn't
But, of course, behavior doesn't
have to be illegal to be
Have to be illegal to be
inappropriate.
Inappropriate.
Any time that you're making
Any time that you're making
someone else uncomfortable,
Someone else uncomfortable,
that's a problem.
That's a problem.
And some of this involves
And some of this involves
judgment and consideration.
Judgment and consideration.
So is a hug okay?
So is a hug okay?
Well, in certain situations,
Well, in certain situations,
maybe.
Maybe.
I would argue, if it's from
I would argue, if it's from
behind, never.
Behind, never.
Incidentally, "is a hug okay?"
Incidentally, "is a hug okay?"
Is britain's top-selling sex-ed
Is britain's top-selling sex-ed
book, and the answer is simply
Book, and the answer is simply
"no."
"No."
The problem is, some people have
The problem is, some people have
decided to handle the complexity
Decided to handle the complexity
of this issue not by modifying
Of this issue not by modifying
their behavior but by modifying
Their behavior but by modifying
their staff.
Their staff.
And I will let instantly
And I will let instantly
exhausting easter island head
Exhausting easter island head
tony robbins, the author of the
Tony robbins, the author of the
book "the worst person you know
Book "the worst person you know
is currently reading this,"
Is currently reading this,"
I'll let him explain.
I'll let him explain.
Tonight, tony robbins taking
Tonight, tony robbins taking
heat after these comments.
Heat after these comments.
I'm not knocking the #metoo
I'm not knocking the #metoo
movement, I'm knocking
Movement, I'm knocking
victimhood.
Victimhood.
Robbins saying some men in
Robbins saying some men in
hollywood now afraid to hire
Hollywood now afraid to hire
women.
Women.
I was just with somebody the
I was just with somebody the
other day.
Other day.
Very famous man, very powerful
Very famous man, very powerful
man was saying how stressed he
Man was saying how stressed he
is because he interviewed three
Is because he interviewed three
people that day.
People that day.
One was a woman.
One was a woman.
Two were men.
Two were men.
The woman was better qualified,
The woman was better qualified,
but she was very attractive and
But she was very attractive and
he knew, "I can't have her
He knew, "I can't have her
around because it's too big a
Around because it's too big a
risk," and he hired somebody
Risk," and he hired somebody
else.
Else.
John: what are you talking
John: what are you talking
about, tony?
About, tony?
You do get that that's not a
You do get that that's not a
story about a problem with the
Story about a problem with the
#metoo movement, right?
#Metoo movement, right?
That's a story about a man who
That's a story about a man who
shouldn't be allowed to have
Shouldn't be allowed to have
employees at all.
Employees at all.
You probably think
You probably think
jeffrey dahmer was just the
Jeffrey dahmer was just the
victim of dangerous men and boys
Victim of dangerous men and boys
who walked around all day being
Who walked around all day being
too edible.
Too edible.
Now, the thing is -- the thing
Now, the thing is -- the thing
is, unfortunately, arguments
Is, unfortunately, arguments
like that can slow
Like that can slow
down any movement towards
Down any movement towards
finding real solutions.
Finding real solutions.
And too often, aspersions are
And too often, aspersions are
cast on anyone coming forward,
Cast on anyone coming forward,
from "they're just doing it to
From "they're just doing it to
get rich" to "they're just doing
Get rich" to "they're just doing
it for revenge" to "why are they
It for revenge" to "why are they
coming forward now?"
Coming forward now?"
And it is strange that we go
And it is strange that we go
there so quickly, because that
There so quickly, because that
just doesn't happen with other
Just doesn't happen with other
traumatic events.
Traumatic events.
If your house burnt down, you
If your house burnt down, you
wouldn't expect a newscaster to
Wouldn't expect a newscaster to
immediately start asking,
Immediately start asking,
"why are you coming forward now?
"Why are you coming forward now?
Was this insurance fraud?
Was this insurance fraud?
Was your house wearing
Was your house wearing
something flammable?
Something flammable?
And is it actually on
And is it actually on
fire at all, because where's the
Fire at all, because where's the
line between fire and not fire
Line between fire and not fire
anymore?
Anymore?
It's so hard to tell.
It's so hard to tell.
I'm terrified to be around
I'm terrified to be around
houses anymore."
Houses anymore."
But with sexual harassment,
But with sexual harassment,
that's so often where the
That's so often where the
conversation goes, with
Conversation goes, with
immediate concern less for the
Immediate concern less for the
victim and more for the
Victim and more for the
accused.
Accused.
There is no due process right
There is no due process right
now.
Now.
Right now, accusation,
Right now, accusation,
allegation, goodbye.
Allegation, goodbye.
Everybody gets fired.
Everybody gets fired.
I wonder if you destroy men
I wonder if you destroy men
or complete the destruction of
Or complete the destruction of
men -- they're pretty close to
Men -- they're pretty close to
being destroyed, I would say --
Being destroyed, I would say --
how does it help women exactly?
How does it help women exactly?
John: it's true.
John: it's true.
It's absolutely true.
It's absolutely true.
Men are destroyed!
Men are destroyed!
It's the end of men!
It's the end of men!
It's worse, you monsters!
It's worse, you monsters!
Women are taking us down.
Women are taking us down.
And even worse, now all the
And even worse, now all the
ghostbusters are women, which
Ghostbusters are women, which
means that when we die, we'll
Means that when we die, we'll
spend all of eternity being
Spend all of eternity being
destroyed by more women.
Destroyed by more women.
It's not fair!
It's not fair!
And look, the court of public
And look, the court of public
opinion is far from an ideal
Opinion is far from an ideal
place to deal with individual
Place to deal with individual
claims, but it's worth
Claims, but it's worth
considering why some feel the
Considering why some feel the
need to speak publicly, because
Need to speak publicly, because
it often has to do with the fact
It often has to do with the fact
that we have a piecemeal,
That we have a piecemeal,
inadequate process for
Inadequate process for
addressing the issue privately.
Addressing the issue privately.
The law requires you to first go
The law requires you to first go
through the eeoc before you can
Through the eeoc before you can
file an employment
File an employment
discrimination lawsuit, and
Discrimination lawsuit, and
they are notoriously difficult
They are notoriously difficult
to win.
To win.
And while state laws vary, if
And while state laws vary, if
you work for a business with
You work for a business with
less than 15 employees, there is
Less than 15 employees, there is
no federal remedy for workplace
No federal remedy for workplace
sexual harassment.
Sexual harassment.
None.
None.
And let's say you don't want to
And let's say you don't want to
file a lawsuit.
File a lawsuit.
Maybe you, like many people,
Maybe you, like many people,
don't even want your harasser to
Don't even want your harasser to
be fired.
Be fired.
You just want the bad behavior
You just want the bad behavior
to stop.
To stop.
That is where a company's hr
That is where a company's hr
department might come in.
Department might come in.
But people can be reluctant to
But people can be reluctant to
go to hr for understandable
Go to hr for understandable
reasons.
Reasons.
Hr exists to protect the company
Hr exists to protect the company
from liability, not necessarily
From liability, not necessarily
to seek justice on an employee's
To seek justice on an employee's
behalf.
Behalf.
And all those guys that you just
And all those guys that you just
saw complaining about
Saw complaining about
due process should really know
Due process should really know
this, because they work at
This, because they work at
fox news, where harassment
Fox news, where harassment
allegations are so rampant that
Allegations are so rampant that
their biggest stars have been
Their biggest stars have been
dropping like suspects in an
Dropping like suspects in an
agatha christie novel.
Agatha christie novel.
There were multiple allegations
There were multiple allegations
against bill o'reilly, after
Against bill o'reilly, after
which their parent company
Which their parent company
responded, "no current or former
Responded, "no current or former
fox news employee ever took
Fox news employee ever took
advantage of the 21st century
Advantage of the 21st century
fox hotline to raise a concern
Fox hotline to raise a concern
about" him.
About" him.
And maybe that is because those
And maybe that is because those
women knew that the huge power
Women knew that the huge power
disparity between them and
Disparity between them and
o'reilly was unlikely to work in
O'reilly was unlikely to work in
their favor.
Their favor.
This is something that was
This is something that was
actually pointed out to o'reilly
Actually pointed out to o'reilly
by perhaps the single worst
By perhaps the single worst
person possible.
Person possible.
Every allegation in this area
Every allegation in this area
is a conviction.
Is a conviction.
They don't look for the truth.
They don't look for the truth.
But -- but think about those
But -- but think about those
five women and what they did.
Five women and what they did.
They came forward and filed
They came forward and filed
complaints against the biggest
Complaints against the biggest
star at the network they worked
Star at the network they worked
at.
At.
Think of how intimidating that
Think of how intimidating that
must have been, how
Must have been, how
nerve-racking that must have
Nerve-racking that must have
been.
Been.
Doesn't that tell you how
Doesn't that tell you how
strongly they felt about the way
Strongly they felt about the way
they were treated by you?
They were treated by you?
John: wow.
John: wow.
That is a admirably
That is a admirably
confrontational question,
Confrontational question,
matt lauer.
Matt lauer.
You've really backed him into a
You've really backed him into a
corner, pressured him into
Corner, pressured him into
giving you what you want, and
Giving you what you want, and
locked the door behind you.
Locked the door behind you.
Metaphorically, of course.
Metaphorically, of course.
Metaphorically, of course.
Metaphorically, of course.
But, but as we now know, the
But, but as we now know, the
absence of calls to a hotline
Absence of calls to a hotline
does not mean an absence of
Does not mean an absence of
systemic sexual harassment.
Systemic sexual harassment.
And while bill o'reilly denied
And while bill o'reilly denied
the allegations against him, he
The allegations against him, he
reportedly settled one of them
Reportedly settled one of them
for $32 million.
For $32 million.
$32 Million to one person.
$32 Million to one person.
And that's where the
And that's where the
negotiations ended up, at a
Negotiations ended up, at a
figure slightly more than the
Figure slightly more than the
production budget of
Production budget of
"la la land."
"La la land."
O'reilly allegedly engaged in a
O'reilly allegedly engaged in a
"la la land's" worth of
"La la land's" worth of
harassment.
Harassment.
So if nobody called fox's hr
So if nobody called fox's hr
hotline, that might be a problem
Hotline, that might be a problem
with their f*cking hr hotline.
With their f*cking hr hotline.
And when you combine a toxic
And when you combine a toxic
workplace with a lack of
Workplace with a lack of
confidence in systems of
Confidence in systems of
accountability, bad things
Accountability, bad things
can happen.
Can happen.
Just look at the u.s. Forest
Just look at the u.s. Forest
service, where women have been
Service, where women have been
coming forward describing a
Coming forward describing a
boys-club atmosphere rife with
Boys-club atmosphere rife with
harassment and retaliation.
Harassment and retaliation.
Just listen to one employee
Just listen to one employee
explain what she went through in
Explain what she went through in
filing a complaint.
Filing a complaint.
I wanted justice, but I
I wanted justice, but I
wasn't, like, in it for some
Wasn't, like, in it for some
personal vendetta.
Personal vendetta.
I don't want this to happen to
I don't want this to happen to
other women.
Other women.
And I don't want him to do it,
And I don't want him to do it,
like, in the future.
Like, in the future.
Her complaint detailed
Her complaint detailed
several instances of
Several instances of
inappropriate physical contact.
Inappropriate physical contact.
Once he rubbed her butt, another
Once he rubbed her butt, another
time it was her inner thigh.
Time it was her inner thigh.
Another time he grabbed her
Another time he grabbed her
breasts, put his hand between
Breasts, put his hand between
her legs and groped her.
Her legs and groped her.
Two months later, the forest
Two months later, the forest
service sent her a letter.
Service sent her a letter.
It said an investigation
It said an investigation
against allegations of
Against allegations of
misconduct was conducted, and we
Misconduct was conducted, and we
found that there was no
Found that there was no
misconduct.
Misconduct.
And so then it just feels like
And so then it just feels like
you're, like, screaming into a
You're, like, screaming into a
void.
Void.
Like, "this happened," and
Like, "this happened," and
nobody hears that.
Nobody hears that.
Or believes it.
Or believes it.
Or they hear it and don't
Or they hear it and don't
believe it at all.
Believe it at all.
John: that is very
John: that is very
depressing.
Depressing.
And honestly, I can't say I'm
And honestly, I can't say I'm
surprised the forest service is
Surprised the forest service is
a hotbed of sexual misconduct.
A hotbed of sexual misconduct.
What sort of government agency
What sort of government agency
routinely allows an employee to
Routinely allows an employee to
show up to work without wearing
Show up to work without wearing
a shirt?
A shirt?
And I do not want to hear the
And I do not want to hear the
excuse, "oh, smokey's a bear, of
Excuse, "oh, smokey's a bear, of
course he doesn't have a shirt."
Course he doesn't have a shirt."
He has a personalized hat and
He has a personalized hat and
belt.
Belt.
That assh*le is wise to shirts.
That assh*le is wise to shirts.
Put one on!
Put one on!
And look, the point is -- it's
And look, the point is -- it's
not about him -- she's not
Not about him -- she's not
alone.
Alone.
Abby bolt, a battalion chief
Abby bolt, a battalion chief
with the forest service, was
With the forest service, was
assaulted on assignment, and
Assaulted on assignment, and
while she did tell the police,
While she did tell the police,
she didn't press charges, and
She didn't press charges, and
her description of why she felt
Her description of why she felt
she couldn't tell her bosses
She couldn't tell her bosses
about the incident is
About the incident is
heartbreaking.
Heartbreaking.
Watching somebody that would
Watching somebody that would
file a complaint or make a
File a complaint or make a
complaint immediately became the
Complaint immediately became the
problem.
Problem.
And, you know, we have
And, you know, we have
the term "that girl," or
The term "that girl," or
"those girls."
"Those girls."
I don't want to be
I don't want to be
one of "those girls."
One of "those girls."
You know?
You know?
I've introduced myself that way
I've introduced myself that way
to people, I think, before,
To people, I think, before,
like, "hey, I'm abby.
Like, "hey, I'm abby.
Don't worry, I'm
Don't worry, I'm
not one of those girls" or --
Not one of those girls" or --
one of those girls being
One of those girls being
someone who simply says, "that
Someone who simply says, "that
behavior is wrong.
Behavior is wrong.
Let's do something about it."
Let's do something about it."
Exactly.
Exactly.
I was -- I was trained that way
I was -- I was trained that way
my whole -- don't be one of
My whole -- don't be one of
"those girls."
"Those girls."
John: that is just terrible.
John: that is just terrible.
And the culture she's describing
And the culture she's describing
is way too similar to the
Is way too similar to the
culture that we thought we could
Culture that we thought we could
work to eliminate the last time
Work to eliminate the last time
we had a big conversation about
We had a big conversation about
this, back in 1991 with
This, back in 1991 with
anita hill.
Anita hill.
And re-watching her testimony
And re-watching her testimony
now, it's depressing how many of
Now, it's depressing how many of
the techniques used to undermine
The techniques used to undermine
her are still around today, from
Her are still around today, from
concern over false allegations
Concern over false allegations
to blaming the victim to
To blaming the victim to
outright character
Outright character
assassination.
Assassination.
Let me tell you, the law of
Let me tell you, the law of
sexual harassment is so broad
Sexual harassment is so broad
that a person can accuse another
That a person can accuse another
at any time and ruin their
At any time and ruin their
reputation just by an unfounded
Reputation just by an unfounded
allegation.
Allegation.
How could you allow this kind
How could you allow this kind
of reprehensible conduct to go
Of reprehensible conduct to go
on right in the headquarters
On right in the headquarters
without doing something about
Without doing something about
it?
It?
I really am getting stuff
I really am getting stuff
over the transom about
Over the transom about
professor hill.
Professor hill.
I have got letters hanging out
I have got letters hanging out
of my pocket.
Of my pocket.
I have got faxes.
I have got faxes.
Statements from tulsa, oklahoma,
Statements from tulsa, oklahoma,
saying, "watch out for this
Saying, "watch out for this
woman."
Woman."
But nobody's got the guts to say
But nobody's got the guts to say
that because it gets all tangled
That because it gets all tangled
up in this sexual harassment
Up in this sexual harassment
crap.
Crap.
John: literally the only
John: literally the only
parts of that montage that would
Parts of that montage that would
sound at all out of place today
Sound at all out of place today
are the word "transom" and the
Are the word "transom" and the
concept of "faxes."
Concept of "faxes."
Again, for young people:
Again, for young people:
a fax is like if a text message
A fax is like if a text message
f*cked a telegram.
f*cked a telegram.
Oh, a telegram is like --
Oh, a telegram is like --
you know what, young people?
You know what, young people?
Never mind.
Never mind.
Go back to your avocado toast.
Go back to your avocado toast.
The tragic fact here is, while
The tragic fact here is, while
we've made some progress
We've made some progress
regarding workplace harassment
Regarding workplace harassment
since then, we clearly haven't
Since then, we clearly haven't
come far enough.
Come far enough.
So what can we do?
So what can we do?
Well, I'd say the first step
Well, I'd say the first step
for both management and
For both management and
employees is awareness of the
Employees is awareness of the
problem.
Problem.
The next is for companies to
The next is for companies to
develop workable, internal
Develop workable, internal
mechanisms to deal with
Mechanisms to deal with
sexual harassment and for
Sexual harassment and for
employees to change those
Employees to change those
behavior patterns which might
Behavior patterns which might
contribute to it.
Contribute to it.
Change is in the air.
Change is in the air.
Now that we know this form of
Now that we know this form of
discrimination exists, we must
Discrimination exists, we must
put an end to it.
Put an end to it.
And you know what?
And you know what?
I think we will.
I think we will.
And I'd love to say I believe
And I'd love to say I believe
that, but remember that
That, but remember that
"good old sex" video that I
"Good old sex" video that I
showed you earlier?
Showed you earlier?
The one from 1981?
The one from 1981?
This is how it ended.
This is how it ended.
The first step for both
The first step for both
management and employees is
Management and employees is
awareness of the problem.
Awareness of the problem.
The next is for companies to
The next is for companies to
develop workable, internal
Develop workable, internal
mechanisms to deal with
Mechanisms to deal with
sexual harassment and for
Sexual harassment and for
employees to change those
Employees to change those
behavior patterns which might
Behavior patterns which might
contribute to it.
Contribute to it.
Change is in the air.
Change is in the air.
Now that we know this form of
Now that we know this form of
discrimination exists, we must
Discrimination exists, we must
put an end to it.
Put an end to it.
And we will.
And we will.
John: yeah, spoiler alert:
John: yeah, spoiler alert:
we didn't.
We didn't.
And now I'm saying the same
And now I'm saying the same
thing.
Thing.
It's like the movie
It's like the movie
"groundhog day", and just like
"Groundhog day", and just like
that movie, there's entirely too
That movie, there's entirely too
much unacknowledged workplace
Much unacknowledged workplace
harassment happening in plain
Harassment happening in plain
view.
View.
She's your producer, bill,
She's your producer, bill,
and it's always her first day.
And it's always her first day.
Look, the large point here is,
Look, the large point here is,
time was supposed to be up in
Time was supposed to be up in
Supposed to be up again.
Supposed to be up again.
Will this go-around be
Will this go-around be
different?
Different?
I honestly don't know.
I honestly don't know.
But I do know an expert in this
But I do know an expert in this
field that may have some
Field that may have some
suggestions.
Suggestions.
Take a look.
Take a look.
In 1991, anita hill testified
In 1991, anita hill testified
for eight hours in front of the
For eight hours in front of the
senate judiciary committee,
Senate judiciary committee,
enduring humiliating questions
Enduring humiliating questions
from a panel of world-class
From a panel of world-class
assholes.
Assholes.
She is now a professor at
She is now a professor at
brandeis university and was kind
Brandeis university and was kind
enough to meet with me.
Enough to meet with me.
John: professor hill,
John: professor hill,
thank you so much for sitting
Thank you so much for sitting
down with me.
Down with me.
Thank you, it's good to be
Thank you, it's good to be
here.
Here.
John: so it has been 27 years
John: so it has been 27 years
since you testified in front of
Since you testified in front of
the senate.
The senate.
What has changed in that time?
What has changed in that time?
Oh, there has been a
Oh, there has been a
tremendous amount of change.
Tremendous amount of change.
There's been a change in public
There's been a change in public
attitude, and there has been a
Attitude, and there has been a
change in the amount of
Change in the amount of
information that we have about
Information that we have about
sexual harassment.
Sexual harassment.
There is certainly more
There is certainly more
awareness after the #metoo
Awareness after the #metoo
movement.
Movement.
Even a few years ago, people
Even a few years ago, people
were ambivalent about what the
Were ambivalent about what the
consequences should be
Consequences should be
if someone is behaving
If someone is behaving
incredibly badly and abusing
Incredibly badly and abusing
people they work with.
People they work with.
John: I guess the problem is
John: I guess the problem is
there is that awareness of the
There is that awareness of the
problem doesn't necessarily make
Problem doesn't necessarily make
something better.
Something better.
I've been aware of coldplay for
I've been aware of coldplay for
years but that doesn't seemed to
Years but that doesn't seemed to
help the issue go away.
Help the issue go away.
You -- you're right.
You -- you're right.
People were aware of it, but
People were aware of it, but
there was no consensus on, what
There was no consensus on, what
should we do about it?
Should we do about it?
John: you've suggested you
John: you've suggested you
can fix the women, you can fix
Can fix the women, you can fix
the guys, or you can change the
The guys, or you can change the
culture, and if we fix the guys
Culture, and if we fix the guys
and fix the culture, we won't
And fix the culture, we won't
need to change the women.
Need to change the women.
That's right.
That's right.
And so far, much of the approach
And so far, much of the approach
that we have had is to put all
That we have had is to put all
of the burden on women.
Of the burden on women.
One of the questions I got that
One of the questions I got that
just sticks out to me.
Just sticks out to me.
"How do we raise our daughter to
"How do we raise our daughter to
make sure that she doesn't set
Make sure that she doesn't set
herself up to be a victim of
Herself up to be a victim of
sexual harassment?"
Sexual harassment?"
John: oof.
John: oof.
These are the kinds of things
These are the kinds of things
we are thinking.
We are thinking.
"If we fix her, then she won't
"If we fix her, then she won't
encounter this problem."
Encounter this problem."
And in reality, that's --
And in reality, that's --
she is not the problem.
She is not the problem.
John: so let's talk about
John: so let's talk about
men.
Men.
I'm a man in the broadest sense
I'm a man in the broadest sense
of the word.
Of the word.
Let's talk about men's role
Let's talk about men's role
regarding trying to fix
Regarding trying to fix
sexual harassment.
Sexual harassment.
Do men have a role in that
Do men have a role in that
discussion?
Discussion?
Yes.
Yes.
John: well, that's good.
John: well, that's good.
Yes.
Yes.
John: it's nice to be needed.
John: it's nice to be needed.
You are needed.
You are needed.
We need you to step up...
We need you to step up...
John: oh.
John: oh.
And to realize at this point
And to realize at this point
in time, there are no innocent
In time, there are no innocent
bystanders.
Bystanders.
If you are aware of something,
If you are aware of something,
you acknowledge it, you know
You acknowledge it, you know
it's wrong, but you don't do
It's wrong, but you don't do
anything about it, then it is
Anything about it, then it is
the same as participating in it.
The same as participating in it.
Is it worth trying to spot
Is it worth trying to spot
some of the more disingenuous
Some of the more disingenuous
questions out there?
Questions out there?
One of the refrains you
One of the refrains you
hear a lot is, "where is the
Hear a lot is, "where is the
line?"
Line?"
But it seems that is often in
But it seems that is often in
search of a answer that will
Search of a answer that will
identify exactly how close to
Identify exactly how close to
the line they can possibly get.
The line they can possibly get.
So if an 8-second hug is
So if an 8-second hug is
unacceptable, great, I'm doing a
Unacceptable, great, I'm doing a
Filling it with as much
Filling it with as much
creepiness as I can.
Creepiness as I can.
And unfortunately, the law
And unfortunately, the law
has allowed that to happen.
Has allowed that to happen.
To that, you know, it was bad,
To that, you know, it was bad,
but it wasn't quite bad enough.
But it wasn't quite bad enough.
It was a 7 1/2-second hug.
It was a 7 1/2-second hug.
John: it was a seven
John: it was a seven
mississipp.
Mississipp.
And maybe they didn't even
And maybe they didn't even
realize they were getting close
Realize they were getting close
to the 8 seconds because they're
To the 8 seconds because they're
not good with numbers.
Not good with numbers.
So it has to be with the law.
So it has to be with the law.
One of the things that so often
One of the things that so often
happens is that the law around
Happens is that the law around
discrimination relies on intent.
Discrimination relies on intent.
Did they intend to harm you?
Did they intend to harm you?
Well, if you're a victim, it
Well, if you're a victim, it
doesn't matter so much whether
Doesn't matter so much whether
they intended.
They intended.
John: you might not have
John: you might not have
intended to hit me with your
Intended to hit me with your
car, but you hit me.
Car, but you hit me.
Yeah, you hit me.
Yeah, you hit me.
And that means that there are
And that means that there are
repercussions and consequences
Repercussions and consequences
regardless of what your intent
Regardless of what your intent
was.
Was.
We have seen a lot of men
We have seen a lot of men
saying they are absolutely
Saying they are absolutely
terrified to be alone with a
Terrified to be alone with a
woman now.
Woman now.
Should they be scared?
Should they be scared?
Not if they are not
Not if they are not
harassers.
Harassers.
John: right.
John: right.
It's literally that simple?
It's literally that simple?
Yeah.
Yeah.
If you are a harasser, you
If you are a harasser, you
should be terrified, and you
Should be terrified, and you
should not do that.
Should not do that.
The whole idea of false claims
The whole idea of false claims
is something that is another one
Is something that is another one
of those roadblocks that people
Of those roadblocks that people
throw up.
Throw up.
Well, that really hasn't
Well, that really hasn't
manifested itself.
Manifested itself.
That doesn't mean that it never
That doesn't mean that it never
happens, but they are so rare
Happens, but they are so rare
that it seems to me that we
That it seems to me that we
don't need to make rules around
Don't need to make rules around
the things that rarely happen
The things that rarely happen
until we finish up making the
Until we finish up making the
rules around the things that are
Rules around the things that are
happening regularly.
Happening regularly.
John: there are men afraid
John: there are men afraid
that if they are accused, they
That if they are accused, they
are just going to wind up being
Are just going to wind up being
dragged in front of some kind of
Dragged in front of some kind of
tribunal with their whole
Tribunal with their whole
private life up for review
Private life up for review
against people who think they
Against people who think they
are lying no matter what they're
Are lying no matter what they're
saying, and in the process of
Saying, and in the process of
doing that, their life could be
Doing that, their life could be
turned completely upside down.
Turned completely upside down.
Could you, anita hill, even
Could you, anita hill, even
imagine what that might feel
Imagine what that might feel
like?
Like?
Oh, yeah, I can.
Oh, yeah, I can.
John: you could imagine that?
John: you could imagine that?
It's actually not
It's actually not
imaginative.
Imaginative.
I actually have had my life
I actually have had my life
turned upside down.
Turned upside down.
John: oh, yeah, that thing.
John: oh, yeah, that thing.
So let's go back to 1991.
So let's go back to 1991.
You were called to appear before
You were called to appear before
the senate judiciary committee,
The senate judiciary committee,
and it seems like you had a set
And it seems like you had a set
of expectations of how that
Of expectations of how that
would go, and those expectations
Would go, and those expectations
were, in a very real sense, not
Were, in a very real sense, not
met.
Met.
Was there a point during those
Was there a point during those
eight hours that you were kind
Eight hours that you were kind
of thinking to yourself,
Of thinking to yourself,
"really?
"Really?
This is what today is going to
This is what today is going to
be?"
Be?"
There was a point where they
There was a point where they
said something about, "well,
Said something about, "well,
what procedure would you like to
What procedure would you like to
be put in place?"
Be put in place?"
I'm a witness.
I'm a witness.
I'm on the witness stand.
I'm on the witness stand.
I'm trying to testify.
I'm trying to testify.
And I thought, "they really
And I thought, "they really
don't know what they're doing."
Don't know what they're doing."
John: it's amazing.
John: it's amazing.
You showed superhuman levels of
You showed superhuman levels of
restraint during that
Restraint during that
day, but there are still moments
Day, but there are still moments
where it feels like you can
Where it feels like you can
read, not just frustration but,
Read, not just frustration but,
like, seething contempt on your
Like, seething contempt on your
face.
Face.
Oh, well, I tried to be not
Oh, well, I tried to be not
seething --
Seething --
john: you did an amazing job,
John: you did an amazing job,
there were just -- and I could
There were just -- and I could
be projecting this -- moments
Be projecting this -- moments
where you were going to tell
Where you were going to tell
orrin hatch to go f*ck himself.
Orrin hatch to go f*ck himself.
Maybe not in those exact
Maybe not in those exact
maybe not in those exact
Maybe not in those exact
words, but --
Words, but --
john: what I'm saying, if you
John: what I'm saying, if you
had, it would have been entirely
Had, it would have been entirely
justified.
Justified.
Any of the reactions that I
Any of the reactions that I
have now is sort of hindsight.
Have now is sort of hindsight.
I felt like I was entitled to.
I felt like I was entitled to.
I will add that in terms of my
I will add that in terms of my
display of contempt, you know, I
Display of contempt, you know, I
have lived through a lot of
Have lived through a lot of
challenges, and having questions
Challenges, and having questions
thrown at me to challenge my
Thrown at me to challenge my
competency as a woman, as a
Competency as a woman, as a
woman of color.
Woman of color.
And so much of what I heard that
And so much of what I heard that
day was familiar in tone.
Day was familiar in tone.
The questions were different,
The questions were different,
but the tone was really
But the tone was really
something that was all too
Something that was all too
familiar.
Familiar.
John: you were accused at the
John: you were accused at the
time, like women are accused
Time, like women are accused
now, of coming forward to get
Now, of coming forward to get
rich and famous.
Rich and famous.
How did that work out for you?
How did that work out for you?
Well, some people would say
Well, some people would say
that I am infamous, so it
That I am infamous, so it
certainly worked in that way,
Certainly worked in that way,
but to the extent that I ever
But to the extent that I ever
wanted to be famous or rich, I
Wanted to be famous or rich, I
had a plan for doing that that
Had a plan for doing that that
would not have involved the hurt
Would not have involved the hurt
and harm that was done, not only
And harm that was done, not only
to myself, but certainly to my
To myself, but certainly to my
friends and family and the
Friends and family and the
people who were behind me.
People who were behind me.
John: so let's talk about
John: so let's talk about
fixes.
Fixes.
Historically, whenever
Historically, whenever
sexual harassment comes to the
Sexual harassment comes to the
fore in the culture, it seems
Fore in the culture, it seems
like we think about it just long
Like we think about it just long
enough to feel like we've
Enough to feel like we've
addressed it but not quite long
Addressed it but not quite long
enough to actually address it.
Enough to actually address it.
What are the ways that we can
What are the ways that we can
tackle the problem of workplace
Tackle the problem of workplace
harassment?
Harassment?
Well, one of the things that
Well, one of the things that
we need to do to change the
We need to do to change the
culture and actually convince
Culture and actually convince
people, you know, we are serious
People, you know, we are serious
about it, is to publicize the
About it, is to publicize the
policies and to inform people,
Policies and to inform people,
this is what happens if you file
This is what happens if you file
a complaint.
A complaint.
Here are the things that you
Here are the things that you
will do.
Will do.
Here are the questions that you
Here are the questions that you
will face.
Will face.
Here is the process.
Here is the process.
I also think that there are some
I also think that there are some
management things that we can
Management things that we can
do.
Do.
We, for example, can do by
We, for example, can do by
bystander training, because I
Bystander training, because I
think there's people that
Think there's people that
are saying, I don't know what to
Are saying, I don't know what to
do.
Do.
John: I think of myself in
John: I think of myself in
the workplace over the years,
The workplace over the years,
and I can't honestly say that I
And I can't honestly say that I
consistently spoke up if I saw
Consistently spoke up if I saw
creepy behavior, especially when
Creepy behavior, especially when
I was much younger and I felt
I was much younger and I felt
that I was on the lower end of a
That I was on the lower end of a
power dynamic and didn't
Power dynamic and didn't
necessarily feel empowered to
Necessarily feel empowered to
speak out and say, "that's
Speak out and say, "that's
wrong."
Wrong."
That's a pretty poor excuse, but
That's a pretty poor excuse, but
it's probably how I felt at the
It's probably how I felt at the
time.
Time.
How should I feel about myself
How should I feel about myself
looking back other than slightly
Looking back other than slightly
ashamed?
Ashamed?
Slightly ashamed is a good
Slightly ashamed is a good
start.
Start.
John: that's a very fine way
John: that's a very fine way
to put it.
To put it.
Actual shame would be, at the
Actual shame would be, at the
very least, the destination
Very least, the destination
you would aim for.
You would aim for.
Sometimes shame is helpful.
Sometimes shame is helpful.
Sometimes shame is not helpful.
Sometimes shame is not helpful.
It just makes people feel guilty
It just makes people feel guilty
and maybe even resentful.
And maybe even resentful.
So we -- you know, you have to
So we -- you know, you have to
hit this at a moment where
Hit this at a moment where
people feel empathetic and not
People feel empathetic and not
just embarrassed and ashamed of
Just embarrassed and ashamed of
themselves.
Themselves.
If you were to go back to some
If you were to go back to some
of these situations, just pick
Of these situations, just pick
one, what would you do now?
One, what would you do now?
John: I think probably just
John: I think probably just
say, "that was a pretty creepy
Say, "that was a pretty creepy
thing to do."
Thing to do."
Right?
Right?
That's a really sort of manly
That's a really sort of manly
thing to do.
Thing to do.
But might you also say to the
But might you also say to the
person who is getting the brunt
Person who is getting the brunt
of this and say, you know, "how
Of this and say, you know, "how
are you?
Are you?
How does this feel to you?
How does this feel to you?
Would you like for me to say
Would you like for me to say
something?"
Something?"
John: yeah.
John: yeah.
It's kind of sad that that's not
It's kind of sad that that's not
instinctive reaction, isn't it?
Instinctive reaction, isn't it?
Well, there are sadder
Well, there are sadder
reactions.
Reactions.
John: how optimistic can you
John: how optimistic can you
allow yourself to be right now
Allow yourself to be right now
in terms of how things are going
In terms of how things are going
to change?
To change?
I am certainly more
I am certainly more
optimistic than I was 27 years
Optimistic than I was 27 years
ago.
Ago.
John: that's a low bar.
John: that's a low bar.
That's a very low bar.
That's a very low bar.
But even then, I was somewhat
But even then, I was somewhat
optimistic, because I have seen
Optimistic, because I have seen
people step up.
People step up.
I have heard from women whose
I have heard from women whose
lives have been changed because
Lives have been changed because
things happened differently when
Things happened differently when
they went forward with their
They went forward with their
complaint than they would have
Complaint than they would have
expected it to happen years
Expected it to happen years
before.
Before.
So I am -- I'm hopeful.
So I am -- I'm hopeful.
John: when do you think this
John: when do you think this
problem will finally be fixed?
Problem will finally be fixed?
Do you think it will be wrapped
Do you think it will be wrapped
up before or after the ice caps
Up before or after the ice caps
have gone?
Have gone?
I'm just trying to work out
I'm just trying to work out
whether a safe workplace and
Whether a safe workplace and
polar bears are mutually
Polar bears are mutually
exclusive.
Exclusive.
Well, the ice caps are
Well, the ice caps are
melting pretty fast, and the
Melting pretty fast, and the
change here seems to be
Change here seems to be
glacially slow.
Glacially slow.
John: right.
John: right.
But I will say that if we do
But I will say that if we do
nothing, the change is not going
Nothing, the change is not going
to come.
To come.
John: anita hill, thank you
John: anita hill, thank you
so much for talking to us.
So much for talking to us.
Thank you.
Thank you.
John: that's our show,
John: that's our show,
thank you so much for watching.
Thank you so much for watching.
See you next week.
See you next week.
Good night!
Good night!
[Cheers and applause]
[Cheers and applause]
♪ ♪
05x18 - Sexual harassment in the workplace in the United States
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American late-night talk and news satire television program hosted by comedian John Oliver.
American late-night talk and news satire television program hosted by comedian John Oliver.